Did I switch to PPL too early?

Started 5x5 about 6months ago, saw solid progression:
OHP: 130
BP: 190
Squat: 265
Dead: 330
(6'1" 185 at ~ 16%)
Read some memes that you should continue 5x5 until you hit ~1/2/3/4, but I switched to PPL 2 weeks ago since recovery was turning to shit.
Did I fuck up Veeky Forums ?

No. Claiming you can do 5x5 to 1/2/3/4 is retarded. You'd have to eat a shit ton, sleep as much as you can, and even then you'd need to have the genetics for it.
Switching to a PPL is good for where you're at. Once you get to roughly 1/2/3/4 for reps on that switch to an intermediate routine.

Getting to 1/2/3/4 on a basic 5x5 beginner program is expected of any healthy adult male within one year, provided they actually try.

Did you do it on a 5x5? Or are you just spewing shit out of your ass?

Don't lie faggot

Not the poster above. I did it on SL in like 8 months. Just eat a lot and don't miss working out.

Starting bodyweight?

May help to point out starting weight was ~150

In my opinion, anybody interested in aesthetics should AT LEAST start with a UL, but preferably a PPL. Full body is for powershitters who want to bench, squat, and deadlift big weights while looking like fat pigs with no arm muscle. You made the right call.

If those were your 5x5 weights, then it's a fine time to switch to an intermediate program.

PPL is for roiders though. You'd be better off with Madcow or PHAT or PHUL imo

SL is 3x5 not 5x5

I did PPL for aesthetics up until now, it's been 6 months. Most of that time was a hard bulk. I still can't dead 2.5 plates. I do not recommend PPL to beginners anymore.

I'm just starting up PPL after a while of doing a 5x5 routine as well.

How much do you think I should drop the volume compared to a 5x5 bench at around 70% 1RM?

Everything except squat, but that's because I had bad squat form. After fucking around for along time, I went back to SS, actually did GOMAD, and pushed my squat to 330x5, and then pulled 475x1 shortly after that.

I'd probably stick with 3x5 twice a week PPLPPLx.

this is such fucking bullshit. Fuck off with that shit

PPL is top tier dogshit for anybody not natural.

Why don't you try trying? There are plenty of dudes that hit 1/2/3/4 within a year. I'm working on 2/3/4/5 now, and have already reached the 4 and 5.

Lots of guys hit 1/2/3/4 within a year. Those aren't particularly good numbers, just good first milestones for beginner lifters.

You're saying PPL is bad for roiders?

no program is bad for roiders really ;_;

>There are plenty of dudes that hit 1/2/3/4 within a year.
No the fuck it aint. Only good genetics get those numbers. Most peoples genetics aren't that good.

>lifting for 6 months
>I do not recommend PPL to beginners anymore
Nigger you are a beginner

What constitutes good genetics? The fact they reached beginner milestones within a year of training?

Most people don't fucking try, don't eat enough, skip workouts all the time, fuck around with the same weight over and over rather than trying progress, and are overall lazy faggots.

Most people don't reach this numbers, but most people could.

what the fuck are you talking about? 1/2/3/4 in a year is easy as fuck with 5x5

back when I started I got to 1/2/3/4 in 6 months and the stuff I did on top of SL5x5 didn't help with those lifts at all i.e. bicep curls and other vanity exercises

Yeah, I know

>I switched to PPL 2 weeks ago
>2 weeks
>expecting to see results in 2 weeks
>no comment on how the program has been going
>Did I fuck up?

how the FUCK are we supposed to know if you don't fucking know yourself or tell anything of value? I hate people like you so fucking much.

>plenty of dudes
>recent poll shows the vast majority of Veeky Forums hasn't hit it
>inb4 every is DYEL except me argument

>fuck around with the same weight over and over rather than trying progress

t. catback deadlifts

4 plates is fucking 200kilo deadlift. You cant get that in a 1 year of training, what the fuck. This is Veeky Forums Veeky Forums e-statting like crazy

The people at my gym with those lifts took much longer to reach those and they haven't been slacking or doing it wrong.

They are fucking e-statting like crazy. Fucking shitdicks

Why does it matter? Srs question

I started lifting over a year ago but had no idea about routines and just fucked around for months in hypertrophy ranges and only recently got on PPL because it's fun

I might not be as strong as I should be because i used up all of my noob gains on unstructured training, wat do?

>Only good genetics get those numbers
dude like he said 1/2/3/4 is a beginner goal. it's the first sign you've gone from a total DYEL to someone whos taken their first steps into lifting weights. 1/2/3/4 is easily achievable by anyone within a year if you work out 3 times a week and pay attention to how you eat and sleep. by the time you've really learnt proper form and have the routine of training down you should already be doing 1/2/3/4. a year is much longer than it takes most.

>This is Veeky Forums Veeky Forums e-statting like crazy
The most hilarious part is you can't ever find these guys in your gym. The people hitting these numbers are usually 2+ years in depending on their weight and height. I mean how many times have you seen some kid come in and start awkwardly with the bar then squat more than you within a few months?

It's typically an intermediate goal, not a beginner goal unless you're in the mid 200's you're not hitting it fast.

I think it just depends really. I've literally just begun to switch to TM from SL to see whether it's my program or other factors that are stalling my training. I put 2.5 on my squat with the TM method that wouldn't go on with SL so I think the program has run its course for me. desu in the end a lot of SL ends up being near weekly progressions anyway. the deload rate skyrockets at heavy weight and it usually takes 2-3 sessions to add another 2.5 kg (5lb) to a squat let's say at around 130 kg (~290 lb)

I was around 220 when I started lifting but on a simple background of body weight exercises and casual sports I already had the 1pl8 OHP and 2pl8 bench the day I walked into the gym. Squatting took the longest to get up to 3 but I got there in under 6 months and I was skipping leg days regularly.

Now I recognize some people start out much skellier but 12 months is a long time to improve.

this is why pl8 markers are stupid measures of competency in the gym imo

You're still a beginner, most PPLs aren't meant for strength so you're a dumb ass for thinking that a measure of strength means anything for aesthetics, and I'd bet you're everything was shit. I just did the math, and what you said could only be true if you only added ten pounds a week to your DL AND started with just the bar. Don't blame the program because you're an idiot and a failure.

thats because most gym goers don't know what the fuck they are doing, and the few that do care too much about aesthetics and not enough about strenght to justify bulking up and squatting 3 times a week

been doing PPL for 4 months and I can do 2.5 DL. I think you're doing something wrong.

Typo, meant to say it's shit for natties.

or its because people are assigning set numbers to every single person despite several factors which influence the speed at which those numbers can be attained.

beginner/intermediate/proficient/elite should be looked at entirely based upon weight, height and weight shifted, not set pl8 numbers.

>SL is 3x5 not 5x5

i agree, but how is that relevant?
seriously, when was the last time you saw someone doing ss+gomad in your gym, even if it was a >100 lbs grill who could never attain these numbers in his life time?
people are not achieving 1/2/3/4 in a year not because they cant but because they are not even trying

I pulled 400 lbs within 7 months weighing 155 lbs. 4 plates isn't 200 kg btw.

Most of poll is skinnyfat losers engaging in debates about high bar vs. low.

More than me? None, because I actually lift. More than the rest? A few times. I usually see them doing squats for sets of 5, then I ask them "Starting Strength or Stronglifts?"

>then I ask them "Starting Strength or Stronglifts?"
What's the most common response

Honestly, split pretty evenly. They usually say they are doing a "version" of it that includes curls and shit, which is fine. Nobody ever stall their deadlift because they did 3x8 curls once or twice a week.

how is it not relevant? when you've got cunts saying they turned up at the gym weighing 100 kg and hitting the 2pl8 bench first time in there then lecturing people who weigh half what they do about how they should be hitting those numbers as easy as them. it's stupid and makes absolutely no sense because you are lumping people who weigh 100 kg and people who weigh 50 kg into the same category which they are never going to be when looking at a series of set numbers.

stop evading my question and answer, how many people have you actually seen doing ss+gomad or anything similar in your gym?

and no, "being half their weight" is NOT an excuse because if you are still a 50kg twink by the end of your linear progression program then you obviously didnt bulk hard enough (if at all) and therefore you have no right to complain about strenght standards because you literally are not even trying

You do realise that SS+GOMAD is, intentionally, a really fucking stupid thing for most lifters to do, right? Even most strength-focused lifters.

>as easy as them
if it took me 1 day then giving skellies 12 months is not "as easy as it was for me"

that because i added "something similar" to the question
also say that to zach who was squatting 3.5plates for reps after 6 months of ss and texas method

The cost of which was be ballooned up, would've needed six months to cut back to a decent weight class and still sucked at everything except the squat.

It's a short-term 'make this work at any costs' approach for people who have one shot at making the football team. There's a reason basically every other strength coach thinks its a shit way to break in new lifters.

how would I see whether they're doing gomad or not? i don't follow them home. I see plenty of people doing 5x5. I know of plenty of people doing 5x5. I know plenty of people who've done well on 5x5.

i also have no idea where you pulled the "50kg twink by the end of your linear progression program" from seeing as what I was saying was that starting weight is an important factor as is their height which determines how much weight they can carry without being a massive fat cunt.

yeah? what i'm saying is that the pl8 standards set retarded precedent where people who've literally no idea of the other side give their expectations of people from the other side. i'm not even a victim of the long drawn out meme. with muscle memory and training i've got my squat back at 130 kg in 4 months after losing it all due to an operation.

You haven't tried lad have you. Stop wasting your time with PPL. GET on a powerlifting routine.

Why would a powerlifting routine work any better for that than a general strength routine?

PPL isn't a general strength routine.

>why would a powerlifting routine work for increasing powerlifting exercise results
???

>I'm working on 2/3/4/5 now, and have already reached the 4 and 5.
I know those feels.

Seems like 3 plate bench and 2 plate OHP is so far away.

Serious though I don't think 2/3/4/5 is at all symmetrical progression.

Powerlifting routines care about the biggest totals. One of those lifts doesn't get counted for that and another is usually relegated to secondary status because it interferes with bringing up the other lower body lift.

What is 5/3/1

SL counts as a powerlifting routine and includes all of them
>is usually relegated to secondary status because it interferes
you know you can not relegate something to secondary status if you don't want to? you're like a woman reading her magazine and thinking the advice is useless if you don't follow the program to the letter

Neither of those are powerlifting routines.

people actually do barbell rows?

I should've known you were baiting all along.

They aren't.

They're strength routines, but there's a difference between that and a powerlifting routine.

they both are
you think a powerlifting routine is a routine that consists only of bench, squat and dl? that's like thinking a football practice is just an hour of playing football each time.

I started lifting with SL for 8 months, had some serious strength gains. My only regret was that I should have squatted way less. I switched to PPL since then.

my stats when I finished were something like

>305 squat
>245 DL
>180 Bench
>100 OHP

This is coming starting as a fatty. The worst part about the squating was that after I lost a lot of weight I ended up having to go back into my larger jeans because my thighs got too fucking huge. I'd recommend any recovering fatties be aware of this.

No. A powerlifting routine is one that's intended to create the biggest total when competing in the sport of powerlifting. This can involve a fuckton of the competition lifts or very little of them.

But neither routine is intended to do that.

T-Rex mode?

who cares what size the jeans are as long as they fit? it's not like somebody's looking at the label

Then name q powerlifting routine.

Sheiko
Westside (although primarily intended for geared rather than raw)
Deitmar
A metric fuckton of others.

There is a variant of 5/3/1 intended for powerlifting. The differences are quite notable from the base routine.

...

kinda, but my deadlift is just really weak w.r.t. my squatting power. I think it comes down to grip strength.

well it's not just the number, it's the fact that they fit awkwardly being loose at the waist but fitting tight in the thighs.

You mean strength routines?

>there are people on this board who will believe this is true

>305 squat
>245 DL

what in the fuck?

>mfw 100 ohp, 240 DL, 165 squat

Some people are much more proficient at squatting than deadlifting, due to either proportions or weaknesses in stuff that's used in the deadlift more than the squat.

Far more people just squat high as shit.

luckily they make jeans in many different cuts
squatting is so much more fun tbqh

my grip strength is pretty weak while my legs were strong from carrying my fat ass for 20 years.

No you dense fuck, notice how these routines have a shitton more volume that the ones you posted? How they don't have a 1:1 bench to ohp rati? That's because these routine were literally designed with powerlifting in mind. These are not conditioning routines or general strenght routines you can run in the background while preparing for your football season or whatever. There's a big difference.

Tues+Fri would probably be the best, if you have the option. The more evenly you can space out the workouts the better.

thanks bro

since I'm spacing them out like that, would you recommend squatting every workout?

I don't know why, but I just enjoy squatting more than the other exercises

I find the OHP the hardest thing to do. My shoulders are pathetic

...

You could try it. Most beginner routines will have you squatting every session (and because you're only training twice instead of three times a week, the added volume on SL isn't as big a deal). The other option is squat once and deadlift once - you can do more volume on the deadlift if you're not also squatting in that session.

>4 plates is fucking 200kilo deadlift
l2math
4 plates is 20 kg x 4 x 2 + 20 kg (bar) = 180 kg.

Even if you were considering plates to be 25 kg, it would be 220 kg.

How the fuck did you get 200 kg?

if you can recover in time there's not reason not to squat every time

in your shoes I'd probably decide on some basic compound exercises I try to do every time then add on stuff if I had the extra energy to do some more since I've managed to get my ass to the gym. something like

tue:
bench
squat
ohp

fri:
squat
dl
bicep curl

then the additional stuff would be like lat pulldowns, dips, rows, shrugs, calves, peck fly, delt fly etc. if you see a machine or a dumbbell exercise you'd like to try just go for it. start out light and get the proper form. depending on your energy levels you could add 1 or 2 things per workout or none if you're feeling exhausted. it's nice to get some variety and mix it up and you might find a workout you really like doing.

this is really helpful, thanks

I'll follow this with some accessories thrown in

just gonna point out he did it 4months not 6.

i strongly doubt the aggressive pace of squat progression ss asks for is possible without something near gomad level. I do 1/2 gomad and recently swapped to alternating deadlifts and squats just cause squat volume was tearing my body up

OT: my progression in 3months is

press 65 -> 120
bench 85 -> 162.5
squat 95 -> 215
deadlift 135 -> 290

and thats with a couple weeks of having to leave out lower body. at this point I cant see it being possible taking longer than something like the end of January before I get 1/2/3/4 which is way less than 12 months. people are just self-defeatist babies

Lol

height, weight?

that's insane progress. Did you start way lower than you should've?