Why does this man have such a cult following?

That was strictly for underweight teenagers who call themselves "hardgainers" to get teach them how to eat. He didn't prescribe that for regular people and advised a deficit for very overweight people.

He has a "no bullshit" approach that resonates with noobs. The problem is that, with time, you begin to understand that everything he says is in fact bullshit.

Name a better beginner program flam.

>do compounds a few times a week
>bullshit
okay

Reg Park beginner program.
It hits every muscle in the body and is focused on strength, strength endurance and mass.

They're very similar you know, with the exception that SS skips the bodybuilding fluff exercises. You're still doing sets of five three times a week with squats every time and switching between bench press and standing press.

It was retarded for anyone who isn't 5 metres tall. Rippletits knows nothing about anything, he just regurgitated the work of people like reg park then took away half of the lifts like wrist curls and calf raises.

>shittest kid in whole year at literally every sport, overweight, little to no guidance on fitness or health
>eventually say fuck this and get gym membership
>tooled around in gym taking advice from fuckwitted "personal trainers"
>through simply adding weight every once in a while make minimal progress
>eventually get hold of SS via a recommendation from a regular
>follow it
>squat goes from 90kg to 160kg for repa in literally 2 months
>permastalled OHP and bench also start making progress
>actually learn how to clean
>deadlift also continues to improve
>all the nagging pains I'd developed since I started lifting vanish

Yeah man this is bullshit. I'd better go back to doing 3 sets to failure on the fucking pec deck, amirite?

SS is pretty bad. Obviously better than nothing.
But otherwise terrible exercise selection, sub-optimal progression, volume to low, intensity to high.
Results are also not great if you look at the whole population and not just the top 1% of transformation posts of people who would have made it anyway.
Also it's not that much fun and GOMAD is just retarded.

>Taking out wrist curls
At least he did that

>Limp wristed faggot detected

>Thinking that jacking off with some pussy weight doing wrist curls is better for wrist and grip gains over holding heavy ass weight for extended amounts of time
Not going to make it bitch

the thing with rip is that despite all the memeing he really, really knows his shit. the fitness world is full of people who tell you to do this and that, but then you do it and nothing ever works they way they claim. pretty much every single time I've done something rip has suggested it has worked out almost exactly like he said.

also, SS is the most comprehensive description of form on the basic barbell exercises. nothing else comes close.

His squat morning form is retarded.

If you go read some of his posts on his q and a forum, you'd learn that he arrived at SS almost by a process of elimination.

SS is more or less an updated version of Bill Starr's program as outlined in The Strongest Shall Survive. Starr taught Rip based on what had worked for him and his friends when he was an Olympic lifter and a powerlifter. Rip refined the method by teaching it to members of the general public over a very long period of time, which nobody else seems to have done in quite the same way (or if they have, they've never publicised it.)

Reg Park's method is so similar to Rip's (and Starr's) because he was more or less self taught (as were Starr, Suggs, etc), and all the really committed self-taught lifters from that period arrived at very similar programs for similar levels of training advancement because they learnt that that was what worked via experimentation.

Rip just leaves out the accessories because they honestly don't make much of a difference to a complete beginner's overall progress.

what's retarded about it?

The program isn't bad for beginners but Rippetoe himself is a meme.

If I was coaching anyone, especially a beginner I would want them taking lots of reps

So i'd just flip it from 3x5 to 5x3 with the same weight. Get more chances to set up and less reps = less form break down.

I'd also take out the power cleans and back extensions.

There's zero upper back work on the template I'm looking in so that would have to be added in. If you're benching without rowing you're going to have a bad time.

I'd worry less about hitting chins all the time and focus on rotating between chins, db rows, and t-bar rows.

I'm also not a big fan of the M-W-F split. I think it's too much time in one session and fatigue sets quicker than if you were to break it up over 6 days.

It all depends on your life schedule though and for an absolute beginner I don't think it matters but if I were coaching someone I'd advocate them doing 6 days a week that way it's less training per day. Eventually more volume needs to be added in to any program and it's a lot easier to do that when you aren't already at the gym for 1.5 - 2 hours (assuming you do some sort of mobility and are taking longer rest periods as it is a strength program)

>Forearmlet who'll be using wrist straps in a few months detected.

Aren't you late for your tea party fuccboi?

>Doing an exercise specifically for a body part gives less gains than a lift that uses them as accessories

Don't do squats because walk works the legs

I wonder why you think you're qualified to even have an opinion on this? rip has trained people daily for for over 35 years. he has tried different variations and seen how literally thousands of people have responded to the training. how much experience do you have? how many people have you trained, and for how many years?

He is a definite STJ; dunno about the E or I though

you are a special kind of retard, my friend

Why do we let retards talk?

>doing something for a long time makes it right

give me one reason why you shouldn't do rows that isn't "mark doesn't do it"

It's those damned liberals

I don't think you fully comprehend how fucking retarded you are.
You should stop posting now.

Name one successful powerlifter that was trained by the mighty powerlifting coach you call Rip.
It's a 100% meme. The routine is way to oversimplified to produce the best results.

You do realise that one of the best points about SS is that he goes to great lengths to explain why he's chosen the specific exercises he has, in the specific rep ranges he has them in, and why he advises a three day a week program with rest between workouts, right?

It's not as though any of it's a mystery. There is no point in any of his writing where he says "do it this way because I say so." In fact, he takes great pains not to do that. You'd know that if you'd read the books.

Whereas that is more or less exactly what you've done here by more or less suggesting doing a brosplit. Nice one brah.

If curlbro say so it must be true

He was never an olympic lifter.

SS isn't for powerlifting. SS is for beginners. It teaches bodybuilder style benching rather than the arched back meme for example.

Are you fucking nuts? He doesn't train top athletes. he trains NOVICES!

You know that there are people with different views on how to do things right?

>taking the same workouts and spreading them out over time to allow for more volume when it is needed (which it will be) = a bro split

I bet you measure the amount of time you've been lifting in weeks, brah

Jesus christ you can't be that stupid. Who said anything about a lift. Holding heavy ass weight for extended periods of time is accomplished by wrists and grip.

I thought school was back in

>gallon of milk per day meme

All these mad DYELs

This guy is especially dense. Rip has specialized in training novices. His routine is for making novices strong as quickly as possible. You don't measure the effectiveness of a novice routine by asking how many elite powerlifters it prouduces.

I meant Starr, not Rip. And Rip did compete as a masters oly lifter for a while.

So you're not supposed to get strong?
Kek.
Seems to be working then.
Sry, I take it back.

>be spooky dyeleton teenager
>get a retarded routine from a local gym trainer
>cunt had me doing bodyweight lunges
>had enough, do some research and buy a barbell and squat while watching anime
I just wanted to be big

he's right, though. SS is not powerlifting. anyone who can't see that should just stop posting immediately because they clearly don't understand even the basics of this shit.

are you big?

Do you have cognitive dissonance or are you pretending to be retarded? I said it was a beginner program. The point of that is to get stronger.

Kys desu lad

But you should, you idiot. Any routine will work for somebody who didn't lift before. Stop being retarded and read a real book like Supertraining.

Every strength coach's dream is to coach kids from benching the barbell to benching 135

LOL

do you know why he doesn't work with anyone above the beginner level? It's because no one wants to work with him.

He's not a bad coach, just incredibly overrated for some reason. Starting strength is an okay program, that's it really.

>just incredibly overrated for some reason

Because his book sold over 350,000 copies

>Routine uses competition lifts
>Goal is to get stronger in those lifts
>Not a PL routine though!

>Any routine will work for somebody who didn't lift before.
oh wow, we have a genius here. what I don't understand is why a genius like yourself forgot the simple fact that even if two routines work, one can be vastly more effective than the other. the whole point of doing SS is to get through the novice phase as quickly as possible. rip has specialized in teaching the lifts quickly so people spend less time learning the form, and a routine that lets you put weight on the bar as fast as possible. sure, you'll get to the same point eventually on a worse routine, but it will take you 2-3 times as long, or worse.

As I posted, starting strength is an okay program if you're a beginner who's starting to get into barbell training. The book also really eases you into the basics and stuff. His only coaching contribution is starting strength, which isn't terrible, but it doesn't deserve all of this praise either.

isn't his program in the sticky everyone suggests to read? i'm doing stronglifts 5x5, currently at month 2. am i being memed?

>>Scooby raved a bit about his calorie intake recommendations being way too high and that it'd only make you fat.

scooby was right.

after lifting for years and starting with SS in hindsight my biggest problem with SS is low bar squats and rep ranges being too low. tbqh low bar squats are fucking retarded if you aren't a powerlifter and mobility issues that make high bar squats difficult for beginners should be addressed rather than just moving the bar back so people with shit mobility can hit parallel with more weight on the bar.

You do realise that everything you're saying is showing off the fact that you don't understand how programming works, right? Or how the body responds to stresses at different stages of the training lifecylcle?

I bet you count your squat 1RM in ounces, brah.

But I was implying that SS is slower :/

>Every strength coach's dream is to coach kids from benching the barbell to benching 135
not really, but there are tons more kids who can't bench 135 than there are elite lifters. he has filled a niche and made a ton of money doing so.

>do you know why he doesn't work with anyone above the beginner level? It's because no one wants to work with him.
he works with tons of people above the beginner level. not world class, but many strong lifters.

>Thinking SS is a PL routine

nice meme lad

No, but I have gained ten kilos
That was just under a year ago, I have now graduated to a slightly more muscular skinnyfat. At least I still have anime, right?

what's your problem with low bar squats?

are you fucking retarded ennui? the low bar squat involves more of the hip abductors!

>startingstrength.com/articles/squat_rippetoe.pdf

Please tell me how I don't understand how programming works :)

Otherwise it's just terrible exercise selection. I'm afraid you are being memed. I was actually trying to make SS appear a little more rational.

You should only do low bar squats if you're a powerlifter , no point otherwise.

they require very mobility compared to full depth high bar squats and better joint mobility should be something that should be trained rather than just ignored or worked around.

who cares when your average SS trainee still can't do a proper high bar squat after months of low bar squatting?

>I was only pretending to be retarded

SS is literally the only source of its kind for a novice who doesn't happen to live right next door to a black iron gym or have a close friend who knows what they're doing.

I think Jim Wendler best summed up the significance of SS when he said that nobody in the lifting community had really understood that a book like that was necessary because while what it teaches is more or less common knowledge within the community, it's basically totally unknown or degraded to meme level trash outside it.

wait.. you use your squats to train your "mobility"? are you an absolute moron?

>they require very mobility

very little*

my transition from low bar to high bar squats made me a lot fucking stronger and a lot more mobile, especially when i started pausing my squats.

why the fuck would you even WANT to highbar squat in the first place?

dont say for Olympic lifts

this is a good point, and rip himself has said that nothing in the book is his own invention. all he did was write down what the lifters of his generation knew.

What else would it be?

>training competition lifts in the strength rep range
>not a powerlifting program

If your goal is size, don't do SS.
If your goal is "general strength" what does that even mean if you aren't going to apply it towards something?

Why is it terrible exercise selection? The exercises in SS have been at the core of strength training practically since 'strength training' was a thing.

It's funny because no one actually does SS, they don't do power cleans.

>has literally never read SS

nice meme lad

for aesthetically driven people the high bar squat is way better for quad development

for sports driven people the high bar squat translates out the gym and onto the field much better

the low bar squat is much more posterior chain involved than a high bar squat. so why bother doing a posterior chain squat if you can just hit the posterior chain with another movement and focus on high bars instead?

ITT: retards that think SS is a PL program

top kek

The established procedure is to claim you do them, write them down in your log, and claim that you failed a set of them or two every 4th or 5th workout just to make it seem realistic.

A full range of motion will act as a squat but actually ennui is just fucking dumb.

a more vertical back angle will shorten the hamstrings in the movement. The idea of the squat is to use your ass "Hip drave!"

>>why the fuck would you even WANT to highbar squat in the first place?

size, strength. why wouldn't you? you're already deadlifting for glute/hamstring development, why squat low bar rather than high bar and engage your quads more?

That's the problem though. Nobody in their right mind has an issue with his attitude towards training novices. He's very knowledgable and does a great job of it.
Rip does a great job of saying this as well, he's very keen on commenting on how he's training the general population and all that.
But every so often he will feel that he's just as capable of commenting on the state of USAs WL problem. Or that X, Y and Z is completely fucking retarded and doesn't work - unless it does for someone who's strong, in which case it does work but that doesn't somehow defeat his argument because we're back to training the general population and that's it.

He is strangely dogmatic about certain areas, exercises and cues - for literally no reason. Most people who are not stupid will agree on *most* things he says.
However, Rip is the guy who sits in the corner moping and shouting "YOU'RE ALL WRONG" when someone disagrees with him and refuses to listen or discuss when someone else has another opinion. This is most obvious in terms of his views on olympic lifting and low/high bar squats.
He is almost always on point. But when he isn't he still acts as if he is.

I'm done arguing with retards. We all know its better to do one exercise then to do several exercises

Wrongalongadingdong.

Strength and power display in field sports (and, y'know, anything) are expressed from the hips outward. The low bar squat is basically the only movement that can directly train hip drive, and therefore it has a greater practical application than high bar does to literally any activity that demands whole body strength be displayed quickly.

Also - you're training more muscles under heavier load with low bar. I literally makes you stronger than high bar can. That alone should be argument enough, because the only people who care about high bar squats are fucking militant olyfags with a chip on their shoulder.

>size, strength

Are you implying the low bar squat doesn't also do this?

i'm implying that your posterior chain is already getting enough work with heavy deadlifts.

Training novices is easy though. going from 0 to anything will produce results.

As long as there is enough time for recovery, you're hitting the basics, and there is some form of progression be it through load or volume then the person is going to progress.

I think when it comes to coaching beginners it's more about keeping them from doing the wrong shit than making sure everything is 100% right because it doesn't matter as much.

Why would you have to read the book to comment? The discussion is about the retarded training template.
The book seems to be solid. Though nothing the russians didn't write about already.
>magic bullet: 3 sets of 5 reps
>linear progression and deloads
>diet: GOMAD
This is almost as retarded as Layne Nortons squat technique.

>deadlift doesn't use hip drive

k

lmao you ARE fucking dumb. No wonder you tore your bicep

Box Squats, Heavy Partials and Jump Squats are much better though. Why the fuck would you do the Powerlifting competition movement when you just could train specifically for your own sport?!

Unless you have short femurs you aren't going to get any quad benefit from a low bar squat because you're going to have push your hips so far back to get to depth that you will be using a lot of your back to complete the lift.

>come to /fit argue with people who can't even squat 400 pounds about how to fucking squat

Because strength is a neutral adaptation and you practice your fucking sport when you practice your fucking sport.

ok