Vegan

Well fit I'm at a point where I'm not sure what to do. Been vegan for past 5 months, for ethical and all the "health benefits from it".
Saw a video by a vegan YouTuber today where he dispels all the rumors about the health benefits and says none are proven and is all speculation at best. I feel like I'm kinda putting restrictions on myself for no reason. Ya eating meat can be seen as morally wrong and bad for the environment, but at what cost to me do I care. Me not eating meat isn't going to change shit with the environment and 95% of the world will never be vegan so what's the point? Looking for any input or insite.

Other urls found in this thread:

chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
youtube.com/channel/UCddn8dUxYdgJz3Qr5mjADtA
youtube.com/watch?v=EqKNfyUPzoU
youtube.com/watch?v=nK_I7z7ZELk
nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-and-arterial-function/
nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-and-the-eskimo-fish-tale/
nutritionfacts.org/video/what-explains-the-french-paradox/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

do wahtevre u want to do fggt

>image.png
Do not reply to the shitposting redditor.

FUCK OFF. Vegans are fucking terrible human beings and need to be slaughtered and no vegans look good at all

>inb4 vegans post roid munchers that have been vegan for 2 months

>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html

Sage.
That being said, for anyone actually thinking about the question: it's obviously more ethical to not pay people to kill animals purely for a better meal than rice and beans.
I know a lot of people will say this is stupid or faggoty, but I say it's cowardly to do something you know is wrong, not matter how minor or seemingly unimportant.

Your individual contribution to animal welfare by not eating meat accounts for hundreds of animal lives saved per year. Your actions influence others in ways you can't really measure. Don't be a bitch, do the best you can. You're gonna have to man up and deal with the fact that you're 1 of 7 billion human fuckers on this planet and nothing you do is going to change the whole world all of a sudden. The important thing is that as far as you are concerned, you are the center of your universe and it doesn't matter how many people are out there.

One goddamn YouTuber? I could get on YouTube and make you believe whatever? Do some research. You can eat vegan and be healthy and strong as fuck. Look up Patrik Baboumian to be your inspiration to get fucking huge on a vegan diet. HUGE.

Stop spamming this shit

What youtube channel was it?

>tfw getting closer to girl but find our she's vegan

Fuck

lol vegans

>vegetarians
worse than angry right wing caucasians

iktf

>One youtuber vs the World Health Organization

Red meat consumption linked to early mortality
Red meat consumption is associated with early deaths and increased mortality from cardiovascular diseases and cancer, scientists say.

The study, published in the Archives of Internal Medicine last month, also suggests that replacing red meat with other sources of protein lowers the risk of early death.

In the USA-based study, of 37 698 men from the Health Professionals Follow-up Study (1986–2008) and 83 644 women from the Nurses’ Health Study (1980–2008), scientists investigated the association between red meat intake and cause-specific and total mortality.

After adjustment for major lifestyle and dietary risk factors, the pooled hazard ratio of total mortality for a one-serving-per-day increase was 1.13 (95% confidence interval, CI: 1.07–1.20) for unprocessed red meat and 1.20 (95% CI: 1.15–1.24) for processed red meat.

Previously, several studies have suggested that vegetarians have greater longevity compared with non-vegetarians, but this might not be ascribed to the absence of red meat only. http:// archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/ archinternmed.2011.2287

>YFW the WHO declared cell phones a class 1 carcinogen.
>MFW you care what they think

>Me not having slaves isn't going to change shit and 95% of the world will never be abolitionit so what's the point?

Not comparing the two, just illustrating that you could literally say the above about most ethical issues. Most people are arseholes and unlikely to behave ethically unless compelled by society. This is not an excuse to be an arsehole but work even harder to do good.

Whether you consider eating animals wrong or right is the real question. If you're OK with it then do it. If not then stand by your principles and don't look for excuses.

Then don't post bullshit pseudoscience

>be normal, rational human
>have bad diet, never really think about nutrition, but then decide to focus on it to improve myself
>take in data from government agencies who set out dietary guidelines
>start reading things from research institutes
>from universities
>on various benefits and negatives
>slowly start to eat clean
>incorporate all kinds of foods from various sources of evidence
>get a clean diet, without GMO's, with all of my macro's and feel healthy, am healthy because of it (with provable metrics related to cholesterol, resting heart rate, blood pressure etc.)

>be dumb normie feelgood cuck
>dont like to hurt things
>"awww cute bunny"
>"how can I make this feeling of cuteness and bunnies the single focus of my life"
>"I know, lets forgo everything rational and sane and only pick those things that confirm with my "awwww cute bunny" lifestyle
>proceeds then to get deficiencies
>proceeds then to go to the internet and pretend that is not insane
>spouting dribble
>and not just mentioning the driving force behind the insanity

neat

I have been vegan for 1 year, have no deficiencies and am healthy (with provable metrics related to cholesterol, resting heart rate, blood pressure etc.)

>continue to deny your insanity in favor of "aww cute bunny" feelings
>them b12
>them lower testosterone because meat eaters have more test

PROVABLE METRICS

How do I combat the "mass meat production is terrible for the environment" argument? It has me stumped

Can't argue about B12, but i don't have lower test levels, provable by my last blood exam (1 month ago)

>allowing life decisions to be dictated by random youtubers
>not coming to your own conclusions
Kill yourself my man

>muh anecdotal evidence

In general, vegans and vegetarians have lower test levels than meat eaters. Doesnt matter what you personally have right now, individual variation exists within the mean.

But those metrics do prove that if you were to have a meat diet, your test would be even higher than now.

>dyels actually believe such tiny changes in test are even noticeable when natty lifting
Lol

>implying there is even a need to take the risk of losing a little bit
>muh "awww cute bunny focus"

Those of us who do not shy away from eating bunnies, see evidence for meat being pro testosterone by up to 30%.

Dietary fat helps, some other stuff in meat helps as well. Eggs especially help.

The only reason why you dont eat meat is not because of health concerns. Its because you are a cuck.

>tiny changes
Those changes are fairly substantial.

>shy away from eating bunnies
if you encounter a bunny in the wild you wouldn't come to the conclusion to eat it, would you? you don't eat bunnies because they're bunnies, but because you never thought about your nutrition and our meat industry is able to make bunnies cheap as fuck and it's all comfortable in the freezer of the store.

>if you encounter a bunny in the wild you wouldn't come to the conclusion to eat it, would you?
Our ancestor's did and if I was hungry I would.

>muh hunting is a social construct meme

I salivate when I smell meat, and when I am hungry enough I look at animals as things to eat.

But you wouldnt understand since you are a filthy r selected nu male.

nigga, we are on the mars in a few years and you talk about our stone age. tell me we take bunnies, cows and pigs onto the mars, because they are so important for our nutrition.

I'm not sayin humans can't eat meat and don't see food in certain animals. I'm sayin that internet warriors like you couldn't kill a cow and prepare it. look at the kid from "into the wild", he killed a moose but was not able to get anything edible out of it. tell me how it would be any different with you. you eat meat because the industry made it convenient enough for you to eat way too much of it.

No, we will grind and freeze dry powder and paste from meat. In time we will create Agri-Dome things for crops, which will have fish stock introduced for symbiotic nutrient exchange. Eventually as terraforming continues heard based animals that give milk will be brought up.

Beef farming takes a huge amount of farm land so those fuckers can wander around - that will be generations from now.

But it doesn't change the fact that dense, preprocessed meat will still be shipped for protein and vitamin needs.

Thats a pretty moot and unresearched point user. The only thing that matters is training. Its a skill that moot with the industry, but it doesnt mean that I cant cultivate it again. There are no metrics apart from anecdotal evidence of "into the wild" that say that we can or cannot do it.

Its more like poisonous thinking to suggest that we are one. But then again, you are a poisonous nu cuck male.

Explain how it would be sustainable if everyone hunted and ate their own meat. There would be no way to sustain the populations of animals required, that is why we have resorted to factory farming.

To take it further, there would be no way to sustain even "freerange" meat, because we simply don't have the land resources for that.

That leaves you with no ethical way to eat meat. You either knowingly contribute to ethically objectionable practices, or you can forgo meat altogether.

The cuck is you my friend, cucked by the meat industry into shilling for them, so addicted to meat you can't fathom a life without it

>this nu cuck male unraveling his nu cuckness

God why do you guys try, havent you been btfo plenty of times already here?

I dont want to reply to you. But you are such a huge cuck, jesus fuck. Arent you embarrassed to type out here on this board?

let me iterate this for you

There is enough place for meat production. The only worry for you dumb cuck males is the exploding nigger population.

But we dont have to feed them. There is no need to feed them. In europe, we are stable, there is enough place to feed everyone meat.

The unsustainable pest from abroad does not play into the consideration of my diet.

You see, when I said that you were an r selected male. I already knew what kind of creature you were, your values encompass the plague that is the negro. Mine do not.

>there is enough place for meat production in europe and the us
>meat is healthy for humans to consume
>the endlessly breeding niggers and lower races are not more important than my nutrition

Because nobody needs niggers.

2edgy4me desu.

>I dont agree with things and thus I must use meme thing
>some crude semblance of being part of the community in the same way that the monster spammer is doing

Kek. I am going to eat meat, and I am going to keep laughing at you cuck guys.

But in all honesty, I do feel sorry for you. For you will never be able to get the good feeling being K selected. Though I feel like you may not even be a guy.

you seem very insecure.

6/10 nice shitpost

>this level of butthurt

kek

>hurr don't feed the niggers
>muh superior genetics
>keep getting butthurt beta cucks xD
that's nice, but perhaps you can offer up some actual arguments? No? I think we're done here. Let me show you the door

why dont YOU offer some arguments FOR feeding them.

or rather, you know what. I think il go out to train some since I dont usually reply this long to low quality posters.

So my main question is, do non processed meats, mostly chicken have any bad health effects on humans? Or does it just seem this way because most fucks are fat and unhealthy and most vegans care more about there health and arnt killing themselves by being fat and unhealthy?

Hey friend,
It depends very much on your diet. Vegan diets can be very very beneficial for your overall health. They can even revers cardiovascular disease and help to prevent cancer and diabetes.
YOu can of course also have a very very unhealthy vegan diet. If you eat shit like mock meat and Oreos all day long you will be a fat and unhealthy person.

Simple steps to a healthy vegan diets:
1. Take a B12 supplement (seriously, I fucking hate vegans that tell me they don't need it)
2. Eat green leafy vegetables (they are very nutrient dense)
3. Eat beans and lentils every day
4. Eat berries
5. Go nuts (aim for half a cup of nuts and seeds a day, they will give you healthy fats, protien, minerals....
6. Eat onions, garlic and spices (makes your food taste great and gives you good nutrients)
7. Eat mushrooms (they are aweesome)
8. Be self confident about it.

May be check out the youtube chanal of Doctor Greger: He promotes plant based diets as a healthy lifestyle to achieve overall health and longevity
youtube.com/channel/UCddn8dUxYdgJz3Qr5mjADtA

>So my main question is, do non processed meats, mostly chicken have any bad health effects on humans?
Yes, they still contain a lot of saturated fat, cholesterol and hormones. Milk and eggs are not really a healthy alternative. Compared to plant based protein they are less healthy.

Please kill yourself!

These shit threads are so predictable.

Good thing morals are relative and what you think has no bearing over reality.

Correlation =/=causation, even if that's all vegans have to go on.

Obvious vegan false flag.

>unironically recommending Geiger as a legitimate source

>Don't hate him for speaking the truth
The guy has a PhD in clinical nutrition and he reads almost all studies published in major medical journals. He is not as biased as people think, he also points out the dangers of a plant-based diet. I don't know what your problem is with him. He is one of the most knowledgeable people in the field of nutrition.

>MD = PhD
and now we know you have no idea what you're talking about, stopped reading there

> Oh jeah, I am not really familiar with the American system for doctors and degrees. Makes me a fucking retard I guess.

youtube.com/watch?v=EqKNfyUPzoU

>not even knowing what degree he has while still making an argument t from authority

Can't make this shit up.

>He is not as biased as people think

Kinda sad that you can't even tell when a vegan is trolling or serious.

The dose makes the poison, you retard.

Yea, it's bullshit. I could understand somebody not eating meat because they don't like the taste or whatever, but doing so for "moral" reasons is extremely misleading. For me, a single person has more worth than entire world's stock of farm animals and game. I find it much more moral to support many people's living, so they can feed their families, no matter if they farm animals or plants.
No animal will be ever grateful to me for working towards their "rights".

this

>Correlation =/=causation

But causation causes correlations. The reasons why meat can cause cancer and/or heart disease have been well studied for decades. The cholesterol link explains heart disease very well, and the strongest evidence for colon cancer is probably the heme iron, which has shown to be directly carcinogenic.

What's wrong with Michael Greger? No vague criticism like "he cherry picks"

Nutritionfacts is probably the most comprehensive and well-researched nutrition resource on the internet

youtube.com/watch?v=nK_I7z7ZELk

I catch my own fish and eat them. Am I ethically wrong because I feel nothing about the fish's life? If I don't catch the fish, they will be swept into the open sea where they will be eaten by larger fish.

I also eat new born baby mice. I first had it in China when I was still a kid and I love the taste. It's not something that I can have all the time because I don't live in China anymore but the guy from my university lab gives me a box of newborns every now and again when they have an oversupply. If I didn't eat them, they would have just been flushed down the toilet or grown up to become test subjects. I think flash boiling and eating them is more ethical.

But do whatever the fuck you wanna do op. I couldn't care less.

>But causation causes correlations

You have this wholly backwards. Correlation can be used in tandem with proven causation to help establish some reasoning behind a phenomenon. An excellent example of this is the greenhouse effect; this is easily provable on a micro scale, so it's a safe bet to use the correlation of greenhouse gas concentrations with temperature due to the proven causation. There is none of this for meat. Not a single study without study breaking methodological errors has ever proven meat to cause anything negative. So a weak correlation without any causation means nothing. It's quite easy to match two increasing or decreasing trends in a correlative fashion, but that means nothing without causation being proven prior.

You learn this shit in the first semester of stats or any hard science course.

>The cholesterol link

Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol in most of the population. This is old science based off of bad studies, just like most things vegans claim as fact.

>the strongest evidence for colon cancer is probably the heme iron, which has shown to be directly carcinogenic.

"There is an association between high intake of heme iron sourced from meat and increased risk of colon cancer;[13] however, there is no solid evidence that this is a causal relationship"

Yet more weak correlation without any proven causation.

Face it, you have utterly nothing substantial to bring to this discussion. If there was then veganism wouldn't be regarded as a cult and a joke globally.

>The cholesterol link explains heart disease very well
85g of red meat a day doesn't impact cholesterol sufficiently for that

>and the strongest evidence for colon cancer is probably the heme iron, which has shown to be directly carcinogenic
No it's been shown (at very highly unrealistic doses in a few animals with poor heme iron absorption) to aggravate development in the presence of other carcinogens, ie a co-carcinogen

He DOES cherry pick. He intentionally excludes any and all science that calls into question his claims, all while pretending to be a legit scientific source. This holds true for just about every subject he touches on.

Greger makes fantastic claims about veganism curing diabetes and cancer, which is malicious at worst and negligent at best. He doesn't care though, because his goal is to convert, not to give sound medical advice.

He's funded in part by PETA and is ridiculously biased towards veganism.

He has his MD and has no basis to discuss actual nutritional science studies. That's like a fucking doctor of history giving you medical advice, but people eat it up because he banks on you being too ignorant to know how unqualified he is.

The dude is about as qualified as Doctor Oz.

>Correlation can be used in tandem with proven causation to help establish some reasoning behind a phenomenon.

Which is what has happened.

>Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol in most of the population

Yes it does, but that's not what I meant by the cholesterol link. I'm talking about serum cholesterol, which both animal fat and dietary cholesterol increase. It's not "old science" whatever that's supposed to mean, it's the basis of modern cardiology.

>
"There is an association between high intake of heme iron sourced from meat and increased risk of colon cancer;[13] however, there is no solid evidence that this is a causal relationship"


Nice wikipedia quote, but they didn't even bother to provide a reference for the second part.

>Ya eating meat can be seen as morally wrong and bad for the environment

Only numales, cucks, sjws, and femenists think this
Kindly go back to dumblr and kys pls

>new born baby mice
>eating mice in general

Fugg, Chinese are truly hardcore in terms of food they eat. Dogs, cats, mice... I know you have experience, so tell me about other... "exotic" cuisine you have. Bugs? Flies?

>He intentionally excludes any and all science that calls into question his claims, all while pretending to be a legit scientific source

Completely untrue. He has several videos talking about claims that are contrary to what he says.

Here's one about eggs not being bad for heart health

nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-and-arterial-function/

Here's one about the inuit and their supposed lack of heart disease

nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-and-the-eskimo-fish-tale/

Here's one about the french paradox

nutritionfacts.org/video/what-explains-the-french-paradox/

He believes honestly that the most health-promoting diet is the most plant-based diet, and doesn't say that this necessarily means a vegan diet. People like you mischaracterize him because your whole identity revolves around eating meat, and you take "maybe lentils are healthier than beef" as a personal attack on your way of life.

Insects are a good source of protein

>Which is what has happened.

No, no it has not. At no point in time has a study free from methodological errors proven meat causes anything negative. Feel free to post a source and I'll point out where it says the opposite of your claim or has flaws that render the study worthless.

>I'm talking about serum cholesterol, which both animal fat and dietary cholesterol increase.

Recent science says that the effect is minimal to nonexistent for most. Serum cholesterol is moderated by your body, not diet.

>Nice wikipedia quote, but they didn't even bother to provide a reference for the second part.

Nothing wrong with wikipedia. If you bothered to look yourself, you'd see that all parts of that quote or referenced from source 13.

I know I'm wasting my time because you not only don't understand any of the science, but you clearly get what little you do know from veganshills.org.

Why do you have to pick a side
I sometimes spend a few days eating vegan then eat heavy meat dishes for a few days depending on my mood and shit
You don't have to live and a black or white world, just do what makes you feel best