"What does it look like, doc?"

what is the save range for squats and dl before I become a back problem guy?

no exercise is safe. this is why the only muscle i train is my brain.

So you have trouble detecting humour? Hope you get that autism amputated

deadlifts and squats are underestimated on how complex they are, there's doing the movement and there's doing the movement properly, loading up muscles and contracting specific mucles as well a bunch of small cues

Deadlift and squat are for fags who only feel good bragging about how many pl8s they can lift to other fags
They are essentially useless excercises that can be replaced by others that dont destroy your spinal discs

What does someone with an amputated lower back look like?

>I'm fat and weak and can't do deadlifts or squats and want to convince the world not to do them so I won't have so many FEELS about being a failure
KYS

No pain no gain

They are fun and effective. If you do them propeely, you will never injure yourself.

Until 2 years from now you get distracted and fuck up once and have to stop lifting for months until you recover.

Guess by following that logic of fucking up hard in your everyday tasks I'll die in a car accident long before that happens

>ronnie coleman, doryan yates, dave palumbo, etc all had to have surgery and lost all their gains because their backs and joints were absolutely destroyed by deadlifts and they were almost crippled
>countless people had knee cartillage completely gone and need treatment because of squats
>even elite athletes with top end genetics, steroids, HGH for recovery and growth, perfect form, etc still get injuries and surgery destroying their bodies, natties go to snap city way easier

Seriously, don't get trolled into doing this bullshit, at the very most you can do light(1 plate) amounts for high reps with perfect form.

There's no reason at all anyone with any modicum of intelligence should do this shit with all the information readily available.

>implying deadlift isnt the best back exercise
have you tried going to the gym?

This

Also most old people have fucked backs anyway so why not enjoy your body while you can

...

Yes, but why not minimize risks when there's other exercises that don't have the same.

If i had a "car 2" that had the same function as a car but was also a lot harder to have an accident on it, then I'd be using that instead.

Using professional bodybuilders who used a pharmacy's worth of drugs and lifted weights both higher and more often than most people on this board as examples of the damage exercises can do is fairly ridiculous.
How many people have damaged their back because their muscles are so underdeveloped they can't handle small loads?
How many people have tried to pick things up with retarded form because they never did these exercises in the gym?
How many DYEL's have you seen deadlifting with the most fucking horrific form and then walk off with no ill effects?
It's about weighing up the risk, if you love squatting, deadlifting etc then do it. Chances are with proper form and the discipline to not ego lift you'll be just fine.

>if you love squatting, deadlifting etc

But I don't love either. I love being fit and I have no particular attachment to any one exercise, but part of being fit to me also means being able to walk and not having a shit back.

I also don't want to have a shit back when I'm old and both squatting and deadlifting wear that shit out if you do them in any way short of perfect form. And if you lift for 5+ years, the odds you will have a shitty form for any reason at least a few times is incredibly high.

>How many DYEL's have you seen deadlifting with the most fucking horrific form and then walk off with no ill effects?

You can get away with it a few times, you won't get disabled for lifting with bad form immediately, but that shit is coming for them.

That's the reason you don't see people with shit form at the same gym for over a few months at a time. They always fuck themselves up and quit.

Has anybody ever used the term "perfect form" and not been a fucking retard?

Wait is this for real? I thought squats and deadlifts were the most important lifts. What should I do instead?

Even with the best form on the earth you can still snap your shit up.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a noob who's drank the kool-aid, or trying to sell you something.

Every single solitary even semi serious lifter has gotten injuries or knows they'll eventually get an injury no matter what.

That's just how fucking life is. I have no fucking idea how people honestly SERIOUSLY believe that people who lift "relatively" heavy ass weight won't get an injury over time.

I seriously don't

Then don't do them. There are risks and benefits to pretty much everything.
There are plenty of people who have squatted and DLed for prolonged periods and still been fine in old age.

Just be yourself

They are incredibly important for both strength and aesthetics. However, although their effects cannot be replicated 100% by other exercises from a strength perspective if you're just trying to cultivate a good looking body then they can be substituted.

Kek, I don't think so user

I never go past 1 plate squat/deadlift

serious what are good substitutes for deadlift?
I can't deadlift at all because I have nerve damage in my lower spine

You need to elaborate on that quite a bit, cite some studies tracking injury rates or anything to make your argument even half legitimate.
I had knee issues from squats due to the fact my right foot was hyperpronated, i.e. shitty bio-mechanics. Instead of blaming squats for giving me bad knees like half the anti-squat people would I just got insoles and now squat pain free

I don't.

I fell for the SS meme and got fat and slow. Sure I could squat more, but it was pretty gay.

Now I do pullups and dips for upper body. I run a lot of miles at a relaxed pace and occasionally I'll do some bar bell lunges, RDL's, and front squats.

Plan on getting a trap bar soon for home.
Then it will exclusively be.

pullups
dips
pushups
trap bar deadlifts
running approx. 5 miles every other day.

Squats have helped my knees immensely. Tore my meniscus and sprained my ACL in one knee from an awkward fall 2.5 years ago. Physical therapists had me doing meme exercises that did fucking nothing except make the pain worse. Just stopped going entirely, 2 months later started squatting and within 6 months all knee pain was gone and hasn't returned since

Deadlifting occasionally fires up my sciatica but a couple ass stretches and a lacrosse ball make that go away quickly and easily. As I've gotten better at the diddly I've noticed the sciatica is less intense and flares up less often so that's nice

Lunges work?

I've seen people say stuff like back extensions but you'd have to look it up

'SS Meme'
Yeah I read the book, did the program as it was laid out and all I got was stronger and more aesthetic. Finding it so beneficial for sport and shit. Probably should have just stuck to brosplit even though all that reading was definitely worth it.

this guy gets it

>suddenly wake from anesthetic
>open eyes and take off mask
>loudly yell " REMEMBER TO SUCK ME OFF WHILE YOURE DOWN THERE.. DYEL MANLET. SICKENING"
>continue to yell insulting things until they are forced to knock me out again or proceed with the operation

It's been working real well. I'm an 11b in the National Guard... When I was on active orders I exclusively lifted weights and did sprints.

My apft score suffered, I put on extra weight, etc.

Now I'm back down to a good weight for my size, eating normal portions, not getting injured, and enjoy working out much more.

Reminder, from famous neurologist Oliver Sach's book:

> I sometimes wonder why I pushed myself so relentlessly in weight lifting. My motive, I think, was not an uncommon one; I was not the ninety-eight-pound weakling of bodybuilding advertisements, but I was timid, diffident, insecure, submissive. I became strong—very strong—with all my weight lifting but found that this did nothing for my character, which remained exactly the same.
> And, like many excesses, weight lifting exacted a price. I had pushed my quadriceps, in squat- ting, far beyond their natural limits, and this predisposed them to injury, and it was surely not unrelated to my mad squatting that I ruptured one quadriceps tendon in 1974 and the other in 1984. While I was in hospital in 1984, feeling sorry for myself, with a long cast on my leg, I had a visit from Dave Sheppard, mighty Dave, from Muscle Beach days. He hobbled into my room slowly and painfully; he had very severe arthritis in both hips and was awaiting total hip replacements. We looked at each other, our bodies half-destroyed by lifting.

> “What fools we were,” Dave said. I nodded and agreed.

I do front squats

You are young and have not yet felt the ravages of time. From my old age of 36 I can tell you from experience shit eventually doesn't just "go away", it stays there and you're limited by the exercises you can then perform comfortably without further injury.

>Squats have helped my knees immensely
After I tore my meniscus you know what helped me? Daily, intense physiotherapy, not meme exercises prescribed by Veeky Forums prone to cause further damage to injured organs.

Best pepe I've seen in months

There isnt a single person in this thread with a good body.
Only fucking retards injure themselves natty.
Your tendon power will always suprass your muscle power,and some retard says 'HURR DURR RONNİE COLEMAN'.
Let me know when any of you accomplish 800 lbs deadlift.

If you squat or deadlift stupid amounts of weight then yes, you'll have problems.

Again the same shit. Of course squatting over a certain amount come at a prize.

But trying to convince people not to practice on form and mb reach 3plate squats is just stupid aswell.

Nobody cares you old homo

>Of course doing this over unknown length of time will fuck you up
>But not telling people to do so for an unknown length of time is stupid

No, doing this at any measure is "stupid aswell", dear phoneposter. Squats seem fine until you're 40. Then you're fucked. Enjoy not being able to lift your kid on your shoulder when he's 5.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the weight that is being squatted not how many years they do squats regularly

I'm not entirely sure where you got this idea that anyone who's done squats or deads and has reached the age of 40 is some broken, chair bound creature who is unable to play with their children.
Neither of my parents ever lifted and they've got bad backs etc.
Unless you cite some actual evidence that no one can survive the ravages of squats and dead lifts I'm going to continue with my assumption that actually developing strength through a moderate program is going to protect your back when a child jumps on you or some shit with your erectors easily able to take that sort of strain.

A while back I started to get lower back pains, thought it could be a herniated disc.

I stopped doing deadlifts and squats for a few months. But it didnt help, it only got worse.

Then I realized my lower back pain was caused by my job, having to pick up uneven boxes ranging from 10-30kg all day long. And deads and squats were actually helping my back and core to stay strong.

When youre actually at the gym preparing for those lifts youre absolutely focussed on keeping good form. Youre much more likely to injure yourself trying to pick up something of lighter weight outside of the gym, because youre not paying attention to how you do it

>I'm going to continue with my assumption that actually developing strength through a moderate program is going to protect your back

Wonderful! Define "moderate" so we can all know what is NOT considered moderate and should therefor be avoided.

I posted this in an entirely different tread yesterday but here it goes:
>lift 2 months only upper body lifts like bench, ohp, chinups, row, curls you name it
>do this cause I was afraid I'll end up t-rexmode
>get some nice upper body strengh 1pl8 bench .5pl8 ohp
>start SS
>squat and deadlift quickly catch up to my other lifts
>feel stronger and upper body lifts increase faster than they did before
>4 months later 135/200/255/300

The big 4 and squat and deadlift in particular are fucking magic and anyone who tells you not to do them wants to prevent you from making gains as fast as you could.

I didn't do Veeky Forums meme exercises you old tard, I actually went to a physical therapist who also gave massages and electrical stim.

Guy, I've had a separated shoulder, torn meniscus, sprained ACL, partially torn Achilles all in the past 4 years. Have had sciatica for fucking 8 years. Don't fucking talk to me about ravages of time

>worried about back issues
>tries everything except making the back stronger
When did Veeky Forums turn to shit?

>t. Fag who never done high volume pull-ups and t bar rows

>I've had a separated shoulder, torn meniscus, sprained ACL, partially torn Achilles
See what lifting did to you?!

>get your leg fucked up by a bull in the ass end of norway
>blame it on squats

Hey guys wanna go for a jog?

I'd say a program with working sets of 5 reps, maybe hitting the big lifts twice a week would fall under moderate I.e. Texas Method etc.
In contrast to programs consisting of a lot of one rep max work or 30 days of squats etc. Not that I have any evidence to suggest that these with correct form would cause damage.

Woah man a bunch of brain surgeons making poor physiological decisions or attempting their ego escape from the conclusion they are incredibly intelligent in terms of the mental aspect and physical accompaniment but not the physical aspect with mental accomodation.

Tl;dr smart guys aint so smart sucks to suck

>"His glutes look sick though"

Obvious answer is obvious.

Do trap bars deadlift still work the lower back well enough? Where should I stop adding weight when deadlifting to reduce the risk of future injuries?

Yeah I wish I never did it FUCCCKKKKKKK FITTT

I only squatted and dead lifted 50lbs and only did it for the first time and have hurt my back and have degenerative disk

Squats and deadlifts are fine if you know what you're doing. The problem is people don't know what they're doing when they first start out. Veeky Forums propagates this idea that all PTs are shit and that you can learn how to safely perform the techniques just by reading a fucking book that has about 30 pages on each exercise. That's too much information for anyone to take in at once. So it leads to a trial and error approach where you wait until something hurts before you try and fix it. Combine that with an attitude of 'lol you've been lifting 3 months and can't squat 2plates' and its a fucking recipe for disaster.

Learn the moves properly and stop trying to fucking max out all the time to impress some faceless people on the internet.

In general, ego lifting is a recipe for disaster.

I go to the gym for 2 years, I have never curled above 30kg but my arms look better than most guys at the gym who try to curl 50kg with retarded form.

FORM OVER WEIGHT NIGGAS, FORM OVER WEIGHT