531?

Alright now hold on. OP here again.
What do the numbers 5 3 and 1 mean? Does the order matter? Does it mean 3 sets of 5, 3 and 1 reps? I really don't get it. I have been working out in Icelandic, we never use 3 numbers together, only 2.

Just read some of the links that were posted to get an idea.

Seriously, read Jim Wendler's explanation of the routine.

SS isn't *good*. It's simple and effective, thus combatting the "I don't want to have to think" part beginners face. Also, being the extreme oversimplification it is, it attracts the minimalist crowd.

I'm not saying it's ineffective, the contrary. I'm just saying it's not optimal.

Look, it's not even about "optimal" which in the training world doesn't exist. If a guy does SS for a year, he wouldn't learn anything about how to eat properly and which exercises have a good effect on him. He would have piss-poor work capacity and garbage conditioning which are the cornerstones of your success. The only thing he can do is move more weight because he has been peaked for a year now.

If you take a guy and put him on something more sane like 5/3/1 he would know more about his own body, he would have better technique and hypertrophy from the submaximal work he has been doing and would be able to lift more weight once peaked. He would also know how to actually BUILD that strength instead of just realising it.

week 1 3x5+
week 2 3x3+
week 3 3x1+
week 4 3x5 deload

last set is amrap, but never to failure.

all sets increase in intensity, where each week starts harder than the previous one, going from 65% at week 1 set 1 to 95% week 3 set 3.

after deload you increase weight and start over. this is the basics, then you can tweak it however you want, including faster progressions, two cycles per deload and stuff like that.

google 531 pdf and read urself

Did BBB. It's fun for about 3 months after that it gets stupid. I used an app to track it though and I think the math wasn't quite right. One week your target would be something like a DL 190kg x 1+ and then two weeks later you were supposed to be hitting 220x5 for a warm up. Even shoving as much food into my mouth didn't exactly help.

I was running the 4 day BBB version where you only do one exercise with assistance.

Overall I went to a 185kg Deadlift a 150kg Squat and a 70kg Military Press from 160/120/55 respectively.

The strangest thing was that my bench never went any higher than 110kg which is what it was at anyway, though I personally blame my form.

I recommend trying the 3 month challenge. If you like it just do another 3 months.

Dude! That's some nice progress!

>jimwendler.com/blogs/jimwendler-com/101065094-5-3-1-for-a-beginner
You mean jimwendler.com/blogs/jimwendler-com/101065094-5-3-1-for-a-beginner
right? Well if you actually look at that link you'll see that it references 5/3/1 a couple of times but that it doesn't explain what those numbers mean at all!
If it's not clear to you, I don't understand what
"5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ First Set Last" means at all. I know what a set is. I know what a rep is. I understand 5x5. I understand the words "first set last" but I don't know what they mean. I don't speak your language. Please translate to noob-english?

>working out in icelandic
Já já

Veist þú eitthvað hvað í fokkanum þetta þýðir með þrem tölum?

Nei har ikke peiling, kom til tråden for å se om du fikk svar. Var nysgjerring selv.

trips of truth, listen to this guy

you have to build up your volume tolerance so you can do more volume so you can make more gains

You lift in cycles, the default is four weeks to a cycle. You work up to 95% of 1RM in the final week, and the last set is as many reps as possible, without going to failure.
Week 1: 3x5
Week 2: 3x3
Week 3: 1x5, 1x3, 1x1
Week 4: deload.

Does that make more sense?

Yes that makes sense, I finally understand. Cheers mate

Is week 4 deload an additional week, or does it act as Week 1 in the next cycle? Is it Week1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4; or is it 1, 2, 3, 4(1), 2, 3, 4(1)?

Nigger actually take a look at one of the templates before you ask dumb questions

It's an additional week. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4.

However, there's also a variant with fewer deload weeks. My cycle is 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 4, repeat.

I'm stalling horribly on SL 5x5 but my lifts are still horribly weak (40kg bench for example). I just keep having to deload again and again and am not making progress even though I'm eating a lot (I'm just getting fat from it).

Should I switch to 5/3/1 BBB?

If you are asking tons of questions about the program and unable to figure it out on your own, you probably shouldn't do it. 5/3/1 really should be considered an borderline intermediate-advanced program as the gains you make on it will be nil but it may assist in breaking a plateau you otherwise couldn't break. The reasoning for this is to be able to do extra reps on the AMRAP sets (last work set) you have to have a training make, Jim recommends 90%. Lets say your 1RM is 300lbs for benching and you take 90% of it, thats 270lbs. Assuming you are increasing that 5lbs every four weeks without any hangups or problems, which are sure to happen, it will take you 6 cycles or nearly a half year to reach just your normal 1rm without even doing it again. Since the heaviest set is 95% on the 5/3/1 week it will take an additional three more months to be able to attempt 300lbs again due to your 1rm needing to be 315lbs (315*95%=~300).

So nine months in total just to hit a single rep you could already do. Albeit you will be exposed to great rep ranges and the 300 will feel less fatiguing after nine months. But nine months to make 0 gains? Fuck that shit. As I said, unless you are absolutely stuck and cant progress otherwise, don't do this program. If you do at least make the trianing max 95% of your real max. This will at least save a few months.

Since first set last wasn't answered for you. Here you go. First set last means you do your first set of your working sets for the 5x5, 5x3, 5x1 or whatever you decide to do them as after your working sets. Think of them as ADDITIONAL working sets. For example week three would look like:
>75%*5
>85%*3
>95%*1+
>Then 75%*5*5

Wk 1: 5*65%, 5*75%, 5+*85%
Wk 2: 3*70%, 3*80%, 3+*90%
Wk 3: 5*75%, 3* 85%, 1+*95%
Wk 4: Deload

Tbh after trying 5/3/1 BBB/GVT, Texas Method, Madcow, RSR, Hatch Squat, Smolov, etc in the past. I find a modified Texas Method to be the best routine for an intermediate.

this

using 90% of 1rm as training max is more for advanced powerlifters imo

Working out 3x per week is the bare minimum just to make some basic gains. I recommend (especially since you're in such low weights) to check out a 4x or 5x a week program.

Personally I go every weekday except Wednesday with this plan, the idea is to maximize gain by resting half the body on exercise days:
Monday: Bench press + supplement with chest and arm exercises
Tuesday: Squats + all the leg curl/extension machines in superset (if machines labeled A,B,C,D, routine is A,B,C,D x3, not 3xA, 3xB, ... etc)
Thursday: Bench press (light or incline bench) and shoulders
Friday: Squats (light) and deadlift

Finally, every day receives one wildcard to supplement the exercise.
A wildcard is something like abs, forceps, calves, whatever. Don't do forceps on a leg day and don't do calves on a chest day. Pick something that fits, like on shoulder day you could find the lightest dumbbells and do those inner-shoulder exercises whatever they are called.

Some notes:

On light days, the bench press or squat is just a warmup. On shoulder days you move on to something like shoulder press (or military press if you're still lifting really light) and then go do isolation exercises. On deadlift days you only squat to barely warm up, I'm lazy so I recommend squatting to your lightest deadlift. So if you start deadlifting at 60 kg (e.g. if your target is something like 80 or 90kg) you stop squatting at 60kg and start deadlifting from there, adding 10kg per set.

If you're wondering what's with all the warmup... you need it. Pick one day a month for maxing, MAX. Every other day you should be training your muscles, not straining them.

You could easily make great gains going 3x a week or less. I lift only 3 days every eight days which seems like it isn't much to most people. Rather than thinking of time equals progress, think of how you use your time to be more important. I rather spend an hour a day for 2-3 days a week with no frills and heavy lifting and make better progress than going four-five days, spending hours a day on the phone at the gym, overthinking things, talking, not making progress, etc.

What if the goal was building maximal muscle and not peaking one's strength?

5/3/1 is good for beginner when you use 5s progression and FSL instead of usual 5/3/1 sets. This is Wendler's recomendation
forums.t-nation.com/t/5-3-1-for-a-beginner/214237/8

Still. You don't need to spend your life in the gym to make great natty progress just as you don't need to spend your life working to be a millionaire. I see so many on fit that spend too much time working out their routines to some sort of science rather than just getting things done. It's pretty silly.

Honestly, if I could go back, I would just do 5/3/1 or Sheiko 3-day with an extra day for bodybuilding work. If I wanted to bulk, I would put all of bro assistance to 10x10. If I wanted to cut, I would just go nuts on the conditioning. If I wanted to see how much I could lift, I would run Wendler's peaking protocol or just Starting Strength.

Much less time spent on research and much more time spent lifting and figuring/adjusting things.

Peace.

He recommends that you use joker sets as long as you're not feeling totally wrecked, so you can hit smaller 3 and 1 RM PRs as well as AMRAP PRs pretty regularly.

He recommends this in the powerlifting version of 5/3/1 because he saw this flaw. The joker sets are still based on your training max, which is only 90% of your actual max. Assuming you are able to do your joker sets up to 100-105% tops after doing work sets and a AMRAP set, it will still take three-six months to hit your previous 1rm as a training max. This is best case scenario. That's why I stated this program should be for borderline advanced lifters and not borderline intermediates or beginners. The recommended progress is too slow.

You are still progressing, though. You are setting rep PRs and you are accumulating volume. What you are trying to say is that you aren't realising your gains as 1RM which I don't think beginners should be considered because they need more hypertrophy and technique (aka submaximal) work as they lack both.

Plus their 1RM is going to be low and not worth finding.

maybe some of us want to get to a level of performance that's to the amateur competition level. i can tell you that doing work sets of squats at 1.75xBW is not fucking easy. you need to start seriously thinking about programming past a certain point.

and when you start to combine other training modalities and working the spectrum of physical ability, not just strength, programming becomes a shitshow.

I started with strong lifts and moved to 5/3/1 and I'm really liking it so far

No. Beginners should be focused on only building their 1rm, 3rm, and 5rm. What's the point of benching 135lbs for almost a year when you could reach 225lbs in that time? Sure you'd end up getting to 20 reps practicing 115-135lbs for that time, but you'd never be acclimated to heavy weights leaving the most you could lift still to be less than two plate. If you build strength first, hypertrophy and endurance will come secondary.

A good comparison would be running. An idle person could just walk and keep walking. Maybe eventually they get up to 10+ miles of walking. Is this good? Yeah sure! They weren't doing anything before. Or they could practice running and eventually run a single mile straight. I can assure you if someone can run a mile they can walk ten. Jim himself even uses this analogy and further explains 5/3/1 is for extremely long term gains and usability being the former.

If you are at a 2x squat level you shouldn't be asking questions about a book with a pretty straightforward explanation of the program. If you want to get to just an amateur level, as stated there are other, quicker methods to do so.

Even for more advanced lifters, there are plenty of better choices (candito 6 week, sheiko, gzcl, even Bulgarian method) than 5/3/1. It's an ok program, but once a week frequency is really suboptimal for strength gains, and I only recommend it if you're coming off a really hard routine and want to cut.

I ran BBB for 6 months about 2 years ago, and I really regret it.

Of course. That's why I stated it may fit in best between the intermediate and advanced stages. There are tons of other premade programs than 5/3/1 and as much as I love the simplicity of it and running it when i just want some change, I can't recommend it to anyone.

I don't agree. The highest intensity a beginner should be doing is 85% and the bulk of their work should be in the 60-75% plus appropriate assistance work such as dumbells, good-mornings, abs and arms. This is to promote good technique, making maxing safer and more efficient, hypertrophy and the development of body awareness and athleticism which beginners lack severely.

>If you are at a 2x squat level you shouldn't be asking questions about a book
who says i'm OP.

Jfc Christ dude you are over thinking this. Obviously form and conditioning is important. I'm not saying for someone to constantly ego lift with shit form just to show off. Just lift bro.

My responses were to people asking questions or requesting opinions on 5/3/1. I don't care who you are to be honest.

I'm out. Y'all dumb as fuck. Even Jim thinks so. Just look at his posts at the millions of people asking stupid questions. It's like you guys want a daily flowchart.

and my response was that some people need more programming that just DOING IT in the gym. there's a science to everything and you need it if your goals are high enough. i don't care what you or jim thinks. i've used 5/3/1 before too. didn't like it then and i'm not going to recommend people blindly do some program cause it's the cool thing to do. i've had enough years of training experience to know how much total volume and intensity i need to grow.

That's why you'll always be small and feeble. You overthink everything in your life rather than succeeding. Way to go mate.

In a sense he is right - we are overthinking it. I don't think 5/3/1 is a program but a set of principles. As such, it has the potential for a lot more volume than just what gets thrown around as BBB or Triumvirate.

>I find a modified Texas Method to be the best routine for an intermediate.
And it works for you know? I heard from some people that their strength growth was very short on TM. How did you modify it?

you're assuming a lot. i do alot more in my life than utter impressive sounding platitudes. you can type whatever the fuck you want and argue for a position of superiority. they are nothing but whispers in the wind. i'm hiding this thread so i won't see more of your inane replies and massive ego.

small and feeble? i get guys outright staring at my chest in the gym. that high horse is going to buck you right off.

Thanks.

Front squatting on the light day and OHP on the light day rather than alternating.

Nice trips. This is what most of the people who suffer from fuckarounditis at the gym think. That everyone is mirin' the twenty variations of curls they are doing when no one really even cares. If a random stranger on the internet is upsetting you, you'd be eaten alive in the big boy world.

My high horse is my bitch, because I made it that way. We're all gonna make it. Just gotta think big to make it big mate.