Why does Veeky Forums hate Starting Strength?

It doesn't. SS is by far the best program for skinny beginners. The meme begins when fatasses think it applies to them.

To this guy's point I was 134lbs when I started. Up to 143lbs today.

A question: SS is great for skellys, got it, but it transforms then into strong, not aesthetic fatass or that's bullshit?

No programm will 'transform' you within 3-6months. SS will atleast build a very decent amout of strength that you can very easily build aesthetics from.

SS is very similar to a peaking program: It will get you to the point where you can use your muscles, but does not build much.

If u wanna build muscle, you need more volume. No, that 10 pounds of water weight after starting SS after being sedentary your whole life does not count as muscle.

literally auschwitz survival
should i bulk on SS with isolation volume ex for every muscle group + ab works or bulk in hypertrophy routine?
i am weak as fuck and all bonez

GZCL linear progression, 5/3/1 for beginners, greyskull, and the reddit ppl are all good beginner programs.

These all are similar to intermediate-advanced programs with linear progression programmed, and get you used to real volume work that you need after 1 month to get strength gains, and need always to get hypertrophy.

Get enough protein, ect

SS is just bad. First of all, it sets one up for elbow and back issued with 2:1 push-pull ratio
(both press and bench vs just chinups). Second of all, its deloading tequnique is just awful. Third of all, lowbar squats are bad for the average gym goer who cares more about general size and strength: high bar is better. fourth, 1x5 deadlifts is not enough to build sthrength

Finally, don't be afraid to fuck around with weights a bit after your main work

>aesthetic
this is always the criticism of SS. clue's in the name and I am sick of repeating it.

Is it called Starting Aesthetics? No, it;s called Starting Strength. Squatting barbells will not make you hercules, it will make you strong.

Want to get strong? Do SS. Want to get aesthetic? Nothing to see here, you picked the wrong program. You wouldn't try a sprinting routine then get mad when it didn't increase your marathon speed as effectively as marathon training would so why so faggots hold SS to the same standard?

if you run it to its end, you might try the texas method and give that a run for a year.

doing that, you'll be in a position to do literally any other program within reason without problems, if you did both effectively.

seriously can't rec the TM enough. it teaches you valuable lessons by not being one of those programs that you just enter numbers into and are provided numbers to hit that week.

It's because faggots don't have patience.

>What? I didn't get to Zyzz level within 3-6 months? Gotta be the program! Fuck Rippletitts!

They don't realize that no fucking program will give you major aesthetic gains in so little time, but that's a hard truth so they rather make stupid excuses. Build a solid strength base and make better aesthetic gains then? No, they need it right fucking now. Same reason why we have all these stupid '6day sixpack programs'.

PPLPPLx , or ULxULxx (push pull legs or upper lower)

SS will make you look good if you supplement it effectively with curls, chins etc and don;t bulk like a retard. get it into your head that routines don't make you fat, diets do.

absolutely.

the fact that stronger muscles wil get bigger faster by using more weight when they come to hypertrophy training is actually very little known outside of strength training and powerlifting.

i suspect its because no one has the care or patience to get strong to much of an extent if their interest is mass (which is fair enough but people need to be educated about this)

Literally the opposite. You'll do a bit of peaking whether you do 3x5, 5x5 or 5x10. But strength is a function of hypertrophy, not the other way around.

A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. If you add size to a muscle, it will always be stronger. that's it.

Here's a good article I found on how hypertrophy leads strength.

mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/2016/11/real-pyramid-training-from-beginners-to.html

no, not 'literally the opposite'. yes, hypertrophy results in strength but using higher loads results in more mass. its two-way. never did i say that hypertrophy results in no strength gain

besides, if 10s were the way to maximize strength, then strength athletes wouldn't do doubles, triples etc.

you ain;t gonna win this one, boyo.

Allpro's beginners workout

I'm sorry, but reaching 1/2/3/4 for reps on a pure hypertrophy programm will be quite the difficult task. Speaking from experience (my own and watching guys train with such programs for years without ever reaching such weight).

I can't prove it ofc, but I'd say reaching 1/2/3/4 for reps fast (like you do with something like SS) and then doing a more hypertrophy focused program would ultimately lead to more strength and muscle volume in the same time as a pure hypertrophy routine would.

Would be interesting to actually do some studies on this.

10s don't maximize strength. peaking does, and practicing the movements helps.

But there's a reason why every successful overpowering program includes super high volume.

5/3/1 BBB, building the monolith,GZCL, Jacked and tan 1& 2, sheiko, deathbench, deathpress, ect

Volume leads to long term strength gains, peaking leads to short term strength gains

because GOMAD.

If you think you reach 1/2/3/4 for reps on SS without having already:

fucked around in the gym
working out for a sport
or being fat,

you have a rude awakening coming to you.

Generally, if someone thinks you can individually train for strength or hypertrophy, they probably have neither.

People hate it because they misunderstand what the program is for. It's for building a >>>STRENGTH

Jokes on you - never did SS. I did brosplits for years. Then trained consistently, but not seriously or properly the last 2 years (no proper equipment and diet). Had to pause half a year due to severe injury last year. To really get back in, I'm now doing a strength routine for the first time.

So can't really tell how it is doing something like this without having fucked around in the gym or working out for a sport. I'd say I have quite the experience with hypertrophy programs though. But I'm quite positive I'll again reach 1/2/3/4 with it easily.

Also everywhere on Veeky Forums you hear them say 1/2/3/4 should easily be possible with SS within months.

SS is fine but damn that is an ugly squat they preach.

Newb here, what does 1/2/3/4 refer to?

You already have a muscle base, i don't doubt you'll hit 1 2 3 4 pretty easily.

And Veeky Forums says you can hit 1/2/3/4 on SS in months? the same Veeky Forums where every other thready is a no gf thread or a "high test" thread? Most people here are beginner's and say SS works because some other beginner told them SS works.

SS is honestly liked because its easy to understand and do, not because its good. 3x5 feels a lot easier than 5x10. No one goes into the gym "oh boy I can't wait to do 5x10 deadlits" Because it hard, and beginers don't want to do something thats hard

1pl8 the press
2pl8 flat bb bench
3pl8 squat
4pl8 deadlift

...

>And Veeky Forums says you can hit 1/2/3/4 on SS in months? the same Veeky Forums where every other thready is a no gf thread or a "high test" thread? Most people here are beginner's and say SS works because some other beginner told them SS works.
I'll give you that. What would you say someone can realistically achieve with SS within a couple of months?

I too don't like everything about SS. The weird low bar squat, the extremely low volume, the imbalanced exercises (only 1x5 dead, no rowing/chinups at all). But from what I've heard, it does what it's supposed to and I kinda like the idea behind it. Personally I'd do SL at the very minimum. In fact, I'm doing something like ICF - so a SL modification - atm, but as I said I have a different condition than real beginners.

I'd say that SS will teach someone how to do the lifts. For someone who either used to lift or used to workout in some other way, it will get you pretty quickly to where you should be.

But its designed to make you feel good about your lifts, which is not nessaserally the same as gaining overal strength-hence the cheaty press ripptoe recommends and lowbar squats

Honestly, greyskull is a better SS routine. Any good routine should have at least 1 AMRAP set in the main exercise to modulate progress.

First time gym goer here. Ive hit 1/2/3/4 in 6 months without prior experience in sports and lifting. Not even fat, 6'0 175lbs.

you're a moron and should kys. Not everyone is a weak fuck like you fucking indian

You've got too much there, the bait is too obvious. Be more subtle next time.

>Volume leads to long term strength gains, peaking leads to short term strength gains
elaborate? how short term we talking here?

The book "Starting Strength" is a very good resource.

>too minimalist to get you aesthetic.

Doesn't know what he's talking about

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>he meme begins when fatasses think it applies to them.

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>SS is very similar to a peaking program

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>SS is just bad. First of all, it sets one up for elbow and back issued with 2:1 push-pull ratio
>(both press and bench vs just chinups). Second of all, its deloading tequnique is just awful. Third of all, lowbar squats are bad for the average gym goer who cares more about general size and strength: high bar is better. fourth, 1x5 deadlifts is not enough to build sthrength

Doesn't know what he's talking about; clearly hasn't read the book

>high volume.
>5/3/1 BBB

CLEARLY doesn't know what he's talking about

>damn that is an ugly squat they preach.

fuk u

>not nessaserally the same as gaining overal strength-hence the cheaty press ripptoe recommends and lowbar squats

Doesn't know what he's talking about

never heard of deathbench and deathpress, what are those

>CLEARLY doesn't know what he's talking about
fucking hell, how is BBB not high volume? how much more do you want?

Ahh just what we need, someone who posts in an authoritative tone with a tripcode to tell us what to do.

I totally bet this guy is super strong and aesthetic, and not just some keyboard warrior!

Sheiko large load

at what point in one's strength 'career' is one ready for those presumably advanced programs? currently grinding the texas method and enjoying it but want to settle into something higher volume after. will i be ready

Come hang out in the /plg/ anytime friend

What are your goals, friend? If you're still enjoying Texas Method I would stick with it.

Gradually scale your volume up until you're doing the most sessions you want to do. I've done 12 in a week or 40 in a month just by spending 2-3 months ramping up. Then you ramp down, currently doing 5-7 a week. Will probably do 8-10 next week and 10-12 the week after.

Ahh you post in plg, therefore you must be big and strong.

Post body or turn off the trip

I started with SS and am happy where I ended up.

5/3/1 for beginners is a better program than LPs like SS and SL, if you can keep track of it, because:

Youll increase reps, not weight, which prevents;
> Ego lifting
> Bad form from to much weight
> Stalling at all

Also, it is properly periodized, so:
> You won't stall
> Bad days won't mess up the program
> Do not waste good days: do more reps
And finally, it incorporates assistance work as early as possible, so you get to train arms and shoulders properly.

That being said, if you like something really basic, SS or GSLP will suffice for noob gains. Both are good non bullshit programs.

High volume high intensity programs. Basically you need to put all other lifts on hold to survive the volume and just bench, but apparently it works really well.

I agree 99%, just one thing:

GSLP is much much better than SS, As the included AMAP set gives some semblance of periodization It also means that when you deload you increase volume, not decrease it.

strength and aesthetics im general

want to hit strength gains first then focus on mass.

k

So a bit of a BB focused program then? I'm afraid I can't help you much there, lad. I train pretty specific to powerlifting. It's too bad more of the form competitors on Veeky Forums don't have a general.

i guess. i'm not interested in powerlifting, only general strength. also aesthetics. don't wanna look like that guy isley.

>don't wanna look like that guy isley.

No-one does friend, but if you wanna deadlift 300kg you gotta make that deal with the devil. Sorry lad, wish I could be more helpful.

GSLP says it's an intermediate routine, it sounds really good though.

Should I do SS first then switch to GSLP?

goal 1RMs:

230kg diddly
200kg squat
100kg OHP
140kg bench

the rest of my time can be aesthetics. doable on BBB?

Also since GSLP has press, bench press, and curls should I do pull ups instead to work my late better?

>BBB?
More like Baby Back Bitch.

If you do GSLP you'll do fine, the AMRAP set lets you progress at a good rate at beginner level, and most importantly lets beginners know what trying feels like

chinups and pullups are basically interchangable, do the one thats most comfortable

guide me m8, after TM i have no idea what to do

>I do GSLP. Should I miss a rep on any lift I better deload by 10%!

I really enjoyed BBB, just be sure to cycle off it every once in a while.

You forgot the "!" in the tripcode, lad.

Its not a deload, as volume increases when you decrease the weight. Unlike a certain other program where its recommended to do less volume to progress

because first the big fad was to recommend starting strength, now the big fad is to hate starting strength

SS is perfectly fine, always has been

i think a lot of people either don't do the program right or stick to it for too long when they should be going to periodized training with more volume

>cycle off it
why? i thought it was for gaining like forever

what else could i do

also how do i cut without losing all my gains, how should i train

How do you feel about this version of GSLP?

barbellmedicine.com/potpourri/gslp-strength-bias/

The core 5/3/1 is really good for steady slow progression, but the actual BBB sets really fuck you up after prolonged use. He kind of outlines it in the book. I would basically suggest doing Three mesocycles on BBB and then do one whole mesocycle without it. I did 22 mesocycles in a row of BBB and it fucked me up.

(you) are just a huge faggot aren't you?
I'm not even gonna touch on how dumb you sound - I'll just pray that you leave and never return

>faggot

ask me how I know you're 13

poutine,

if you have experience cutting, what routine do you think would work the best on a 500-750 calorie deficit? sheiko already chewed me up on this cut so that is not an option

>sheiko already chewed me up on this cut

Oh jesus why would you ever do fatigue accumulation and cut oh god why do you hate yourself.

I cut from 215 to 185 with an acceptable amount of lost strength on 5/3/1. It sucked, I would never do it again. Not because of the 5/3/1, but because I love food.

ive gone from 65/75/85/135 to 160/215/285/385 in 6mo on ss

the only thing I wont hit with ss is bench. moved to TM for arms. squats low cause of injuries and deadlift will be 405 in 2 weeks

oh it accumulated alright, i think i'm only now getting back to normal

what 5/3/1 template were you doing? I was considering going to something like that, or something even simpler (maybe just hitting a couple heavy 3x5s a week)

135 to 385 1x5 with 10lb jumps the entire way here

you seem real knowedgeable great work

By that point I'd tweaked 5/3/1 beyond any template that currently existed. But I enjoyed the classic 5/3/1 over the newer version, and I tried to keep it simple. Do the template you enjoy the most.

How do you know I'm 13?
>How do you know I'm 13?

You massive faggot

>faggot

You're up past your bedtime. It's not 2005 anymore, no-one thinks "faggot" is edgy or acceptable.

Do you know what website you're on and understand its history and culture?

the form of the guy squatting is completely wrong.

It's not but like most things it has been bastardized and hardly resembles what it once was or intended to be. Bill Starr (Ripp's teacher) made it as a cycle to be ran by his football players to recover lost strength. In other words, it wasn't aimed at your regular couch potato, yet nowadays is for some reason.

That's also the reason why this program has some of the highest differences in strength gains. A guy who has been doing sports will get more out of it than the guy doing brosplits, who will get more out of it than the guy starting out.

A better option would be the Candito LP (hypertrophy) or 5/3/1 for beginners. They are less aggressive and can be ran longer than SS for someone who has never been in a gym.

Jokes on you I'm posting from my bed.

>trying to act mature on the fourth channel

Tripfag please go be a enormous faggot somewhere else

>aethetics
nigger just get your lifts up to 1/2/3/4 and then add curls and increase reps to 3x8
this will get most people a better body than they could've ever achieved on any shitty brosplit

ur mum is gonna take away all ur goodboy points if she finds out ur sneaking compy time under the covers lad r u crazy ull never get ur tendies this way

>gets called out on being on trying to act mature
>overcompensates with pathetic attempt to me
Ask me how I know you're a faggot again

I believe this aswell, but are there actually any studies done on this matter?

I was always a skinnyfag weakling and never did any sports whatsoever, even avoided school sports whenever I could

my stats after 3 months of SS while on a caloric deficit in kg:
25/42.5/80/95 and 1 gf

pretty happy with the results except for my DL being weak as fuck because I was convinced I could avoiding mixed grip on my worksets and didn't increment it for a long long time

also I'm e-statting about the gf it's actually 0

If being compassionate to the fact that using "faggot" as an insult has harmed thousands of people makes me gay, then lube up and stick your dick in my butt.

no need for studies, everyone who looks good to you lifts 3x heavier than you do but does the same amount of sets you do

put 2 and 2 together

you're a total faggot poutine

Not true. Have seen guys bench less then me with way better chest development.
That's not what I was talking about though. Again, I agree with you, I'm just curious whether it's scientifically proven that building solid strength fast then going for aesthetics from there is more effective than just starting with a bro split. I'd say no, but just because I personally made experiences that match this and have seen brosplits fail horribly dozens of times doesn't make this a general fact. My observations are completely anecdotal, which is why I asked for studies.

>Not true. Have seen guys bench less then me with way better chest development.
you asked them to take off their shirt for you?

>what are tanktops
Are you autistic?

this is pretty wrong

nobody benching 405 is doing so with starting strength levels of bench volume

you can get bigger quicker with more volume at a lower percentage 1rm

believe it or not the differences in hypertrophy and strength oriented routines did not come about by accident, lower intensities with more volume actually are a whole lot better for size

Whats the tradeoff in aesthetics in TM vs ppl over half a year or something? Will I only put on half as much muscle mass or something, but be stronger?