2013

Bullshit, show me a study creatine stops the body's natural production

Nobody actually did SS. People just take weight loss progress photos, swap them around, and label it "YOUR BODY ON SS: 125x5 bench, 375x5 squat, 400x5 deadlift".

Only retards have ever been against isolation movements. No actual strength coach tells you that you shouldn't do any isolation work.

fuck off with all this salt, I wouldn't recommend something like PPLPPLx to a beginner like I would SS or Greyskull

I did SS.

... for like 6 months and then switched to PPL because it's a beginners program and I'm not fucking retarded.

"The spontaneous loss of creatine and of phosphocreatine to creatinine requires that creatine be continuously replaced; this occurs by a combination of diet and endogenous synthesis."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430086

If a beginner has the time and the motivation to be in the gym for 5-6 days a week, 1.5 hours a day, then doing a 3x/week 45min program is regressive.

The guy who wrote SS has written multiple fucking thesis length blogposts on why isolations should not be done on SS

It took him years to add the modified SS routine with isolations to his website and only then with the logic of "I know you clowns will do curls anyways so if you want to make less progress here's a safe amount of volume for you"

What's your total?

Rippetoe has never been of the opinion that you should never do isolations. He's always said that they should not be the focus of your training, and that you compound lifts are your bread and butter. He has fucking barbell curls in Starting Strength 2nd ed. (9 fucking years ago).

But he also says you should only do curls ~4 weeks into the program, and even then only 2-3 sets on Fridays.

2 sets of curls, once a week, is not going to do anything for your physique.

There's literally a whole chapter in the Starting Strength book dedicated to assistance exercise.
Assistance was always part of SS, it just doesn't need to be programmed, so it's not in the core program. People would know this if they actually read the book.

That being said, I think people stopped doing SS because it simply didn't work for most people. I think it's a program that works very well with genetically gifted, but does badly for the ones who aren't. The prime example is Zach who already had good stats the first time he did the exercises when he started the program. So of course he would also get impressive numbers on it.
Personally stalled very quickly on it and gained little mass. The moment I switched to PuPu, keeping it 3x5 and still with little assistance, my gains were all over the place. And I seriously doubt that I'm the only one with that experience.

>no isolations
>"No strength coach says you should never do isolations."
>starting strength man does!
>"No he doesn't. He literally has them in his book from almost a decade ago."
>well, he doesn't recommend enough of them for my taste!

Where exactly are you going with these goalposts?

A
Bench 3x5
Squat 3x5
Cable rows 3x8

B
Ohp 3x5
Diddly 3x5
DB curls 3x8
Tricep rope extension 3x8

ABxABxx

How's this look. Should I switch my compounds to 5x5? Opinions on 4x6, 3x6 variations.

Dude, if you're doing ABxAB then why not just do a push/pull routine like a non retarded person?

Push
Squats
Heavy Bench / ohp (alternate)
Light ohp / bench
Triceps

Pull
Heavy Deadlift / barbell rows (alternate)
Light barbells rows / deadlift
Chin ups
Curls

everyone who was DYEL is now DYEL- with legs

Alternating heavy and light in the same muscle group is confusing specialy once I'm trying g to progressive overload

You're strawmanning, I never said SS didn't have isos. But my point stands, SS doesn't have enough direct arm work, or lateral/rear delt work.

SS would be better (physique wise) if it included dips or CGBP one day, chins the other, an arm iso, and a shoulder iso. But the program itself isnt that flexible so people lose their goddamn minds saying "yndtp" if you alter it in the slightest.

6 days a week in the gym? really?

We are all beyond that begginers routine. We are all intermediste strength. Time for aestetics bby

because this is SS aesthetics

I love the gym, and besides being fun I feel it produces mental gains (destress, increased confidence, self actualization) alongside physical gains, so i go as much as I can.

Nothing wrong with going 3x a week, but I feel you need to increase volume accordingly – if you're going 3x a week, those sessions should be at least 1.5 hours.

>dat perfect circle silhouette on the second pic

The reason why SS is so popular is
1) it is very simple, simplest shit ever
2) all that MUH COMPOUND MOVEMENTS, THE ART OF MANLINESS, LOOK I CAN POWER CLEAN 30 KG, ISOLATION IS FOR GIRLS WITH PINK DUMBBELLS.

Beginner should do something like this, maybe three days per week instead of four
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

Not enough rest time imo.
I used to do Ababaxx but I noticed my size gains at ABxABxx.

Most people can't squat heavy. People don't like to think of themselves as novices, so they don't need a novice program. Their ego blinds them to SS is a novice program because you are increasing lifts every session.

Pplpplx is too much. Specialy if you're lifting heavy.

>I did SS
>low body in pic
>no upper body in pic

see

lol

>The "coach" whose "specialization" is novice training

you do understand that PPLPPLx has less frequency than SS, right?

on SS you push, pull and legs 3 times a week, on PPLPPLx you only hit them twice a week

Will I get t Rex body doing stronglifts 5x5?

anyone who thinks SS takes 45 minutes never actually did the program

You won't even get a trex body doing SS, its just again, no one on fit reads the program which includes chins and curls/tricep work as accessories.

People just skim and see, squat, dead, bench, ohp, row, and do those exclusively.

Training volume is higher in PPLPPLx.
also
> pull 3 times a week
If we talk about upper body pull, then no.

>resting one day.

LOL maybe a good routine for cutting g but not bulking and progressing.
Progressing = more weight
More weight = size

an SS workout takes a lot longer than 45 minutes, towards the end of linear progression those sets of 5 will take your soul

but yeah there is really no reason to hold a beginner back if they want to train more, more volume is better and I think focusing on weight on the bar so much during the beginner phase instead of focusing on volume development is counterproductive

see Sheiko novice vs SS, Sheiko novice sets you up to have the work capacity to transition to intermediate, SS wants to make you strong ASAP for football or something without equipping you to handle the higher volume needed later in your lifting career

Less frequency but a hell of a lot more volume.

>SS
>9 sets legs, 4.5 sets chest, 4.5 sets shoulders, 2 sets deadlift per week

>typical PPL (5-6 exercises, 4 sets per exercise)
>32 sets of legs, 32 sets chest, ??? sets shoulders (depends on how you program them), 32 sets back, 16 sets of arms

>>resting one day.
Oh yes, because it's to difficult to work legs after arms!

If you take 5 min rest between sets (which is at the top end) thats 30 minutes resting total. Each set itself will be about 30 seconds. Warmups will be maybe 5 minutes per exercise (Rip himself says time between warmup sets should just be however long it takes you to put weight on the bar). That's 45 min to an hour right there.

you dont think deadlift works upperbody? top kek

novices dont need that useless volume, 3 sets of 5 each time you workout is enough to build muscle and strength

do the program and let me know how long it takes you once you start squatting heavy

>>SS sucks
>
>What happened?
le aesthetics crews are bigger than ever so people care more and more about their abs and less and less about actually lifting heavy fucking weights

I'm curious though

strawpoll.me/11957564

>3 sets of 5 each time you workout is enough to build muscle and strength
That may be true, but 3 sets of 5, plus 3 sets of 8 (as an example) will build more – so if you have the time, why not do more?

strengtheory.com/more-is-more/

Except good fucking luck taking only 5 min breaks. He says 5-8, even 5-10 minute breaks.

It's not about that
Sleep = muscle repair after you muscles get torn. At least two off days is needed imo. Like
>doesn't know cns fatigue

FTFY
>I've never done any research onto the effects of creatine but I can assure you the thousands of balding teenagers are just memeing trust me I just know

I really hate dumb bastards like you. Do a simple google search, creatine raises DHT and causes balding, from very concrete and widespread proof.

>you dont think deadlift works upperbody?
If deadlift works upperbody, then standing ohp works legs and abs

I did the program (I'm ) and it is max an hour, unless you add accessories (but then "hurr durr youre not doing the program").

If I could go back in time, I'd do SS again just because I didn't really enjoy lifting back then. But, if I had my current mindset, I'd run a PPL linear progression or ICF instead.

>novices dont need that useless volume, 3 sets of 5 each time you workout is enough to build muscle and strength
Stop parroting Rippetoe
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

>cns fatigue
>implying every beginner lift high intensity high volume heavy ass shit every workout

This isnt you,you fucking faggot.
Its posted before,the guy who posted this has done ss phat and phul.
You fucking no lifer memesters are the worst.

it does, maybe not hard enough to get benefit in the legs though

>novices dont need that useless volume
Sheiko and Chad Wesley Smith think that they do. Why I should listen Rippetoe and not them?

I spend at the very least 1 hour

>post says he did SS
>"this isn't you, that guy said he did SS!"
mfw

Fuck off man. It doesn't stop the production, it temporarily halts it. Which doesn't matter because you're supplementing it with a factor many times higher than natural. To the point where your body can't physically hold more of it and you piss the rest out.

The reason creatine is considered so safe is because the production always picks up again after you stop, no matter how long you've used it.

SS isn't fucking about physique, how is this hard to understand?

It's about improving your squat, bench and deadlift as much as possible. Everything else is auxiliary.

It's a strength program for improving strength.

>hypertrophy doesn't matter for strength
what a retard

Balding teenagers exist because your parents keep breeding

Polluting the gene pool should be a crime.

>Creatine
>long term effects
>people believe this

Guys, it's current year

>SS doesn't provide hypertrophy
or
>hypertrophy is the only factor for training for strength
You're bleating all over the place

If you want to get big, 3x a week doesn't do shit, sorry breh. I started getting actual results when I switched from 5 days a week to 6 days a week, and I absolutely love it.

kys

I have become troll, destroller of worlds

what's your fitmisc account name buddy?

Ss is good. Just add a forth set on upper body lifts. Chins are already a part of the program, so all you need is chest isolation and curls.

Haters gonna hate

What's that?

>>SS doesn't provide hypertrophy
Yes.

>no hypertrophy
>At all
>nothing
Ok

Because retards thought it was the golden key to strength and aesthetics.

It really only gives one of them.

What people don't understand is that there is no universal program. Different workouts agree more with people that others, and people have vastly different body types, endurance, strength, injuries, etc. Some guys can't squat due to shoulder or back injuries, so they leg press. Some guys can't do X, so they do Y and sometimes Z. Goals are different. Goal bodies are different. What people who shill programs don't understand is that what works for them might not work as well for others. I mean seriously, it's about reaching your goal, not what exercise you did to get there. If someone told me that they magically knew my body, and that barbell curls wouldn't hit my biceps like dumbbells curls and to stop doing them to achieve my goal, I wouldn't give a fuck about not being able to do barbell curls. I'd care about results.

Now, SS is okay, PPLs are alright in my opinion as well, Greyskull is kinda whatever but yeah sure whatever floats your boat. I have a 4 day split and I love it. Ask most of the jacked guys in the gym what program they do, most are going to say they follow their own custom program.

I personally dislike starting strength. It has an ultimatum mentality that upsets me. I injured my shoulder and back skydiving years ago, and while I can OHP and do everything else just fine, I can't rotate my right arm back far enough to hold a barbell when trying to squat. So I follow my own program so I can still make gains and build muscle.

Also:
>SS isn't fucking about physique
>People wonder why people wanting to build physique don't follow SS

Because SS is literally "start doing these until you know how to do them with proper form and build a starting base for lifting". After that you should build your own program or switch to a PPL, which you'll end up customizing anyway.

When the bulk of your volume is lower body, yeah.

that's it, I'm convinced: SS is shit

This is one of the best posts I have read on this board.

As for this:
>Because SS is literally "start doing these until you know how to do them with proper form and build a starting base for lifting". After that you should build your own program or switch to a PPL, which you'll end up customizing anyway

People become career beginners and never venture outside of high-intensity, low-volume workouts and that's bad. I am honestly surprised it has become such a problem.

This. Added 5 lbs to my lifts on a 3x8 routine every week or every 2 or 3 etc
Etc after 2 years went for 135 bench for reps to 195

>This thread
>people are still discussing whether SS is shit or not
>it literally took me one read to figure that out
>C'MON Veeky Forums I thought you were better than that

>>T-Rex body for SS
Does it mean it is good for grils?

>It's about reaching your goal, not what exercise you did to get there
>It's about reaching your goal, not what exercise you did to get there
>It's about reaching your goal, not what exercise you did to get there

This, so many times this.

whenever i go to the gym, i do (slightly modified) SS
last time i was there i hit:
OHP: 155 for 3x5
High-bar BS (a2g): 275 for 3x5
FS: 245 for 3x5
BP: 205 for 3x5
Pull-ups: 3x10
i'm 6'2" 210-220lbs with longish limbs so i was pretty happy with my squat progress coaches are always impressed with my flexibility

Kek you sound triggered newfriend. Why don't you do that google search.

fucking kek

You could say same thing for roids
>I-IT ONLY TEMPORARILY SUPRESSES TEST PRODUCTION
>IT COMES BACK TO NORMAL LEVELS AFTER STOPPING
Only downside of roids is estrogen, which can be blocked with use of other drugs. So why not roid?

Because I'm not a professional athlete.

Newfag brosplitters who don't know how to diet and who think hypertrophy works outside of steroid use.

Basically. If you wanna have a big butt, just do SS. All those low bar hip drahve squats are gonna do wonders for your legs and ass.

>creatine
>inhibits the natural production of something in your body
>makes you bald
I guess all the moms were right after all. It's basically a steroid.

>t. Salty Fat powershitter

Hate to spoonfeed dyel newbitch like you but here ya go:

examine.com/nutrition/does-creatine-cause-baldness/

t. dyel twink who doesn't know how to greentext.