How should healthcare be handled in society?

Independent healthcare.

As a single straight healthy male why should I pay for smokers, fat fucks, women and aids infested faggots.

American healthcare was cheaper, better quality and gave more consumer choice pre-1965 and medicare. As with everything else it touches, socialism ruined healthcare for the vast majority of responsible citizens in order to cover the costs for the minority of reckless and irresponsible citizens.

nothing for people who choose to fuck up their health e.g. obese adults, smokers, drug addicts, etc.
universal healthcare for everyone else.

Sorry bud but socialism doesn't work

This board used to be /heath & fitness/

You can guess why the name is different

Yeah my granddad always talks about how in 1949 he could go to his doc and get an MRI for a nickle same day.

Insurance companies should be able to bully the shit out of you if you're living an unhealthy lifestyle.

>smoker? bullied
>overweight? bullied
>alcoholic? bullied
>obese? superbullied

>just pay for everyone else

not really selling this idea to me well senpai

With wearable fitness trackers this might be the future.
>Oh hey John looks like you haven't met your daily steps total!
>Your rate will now be adjusted accordingly!

Do you mean charge more? Because the ACA doesn't allow for that...
What if like, they hired a full-time bully to like knock sweets out of their hands, or unplug the rascal?

If the government is involved in healthcare, you should not get access to it unless you are
>Of a normal BMI
>Do not smoke
>Drink moderately
And if you do not meet these criteria, you will be asked to change until you meet these requirements

>I'm 12 and what is politics

Based, though I doubt Trump will do this well with healthcare

That's a dangerous Road...
Next they'll be tracking what u eat
'all that Red meat isn't that healthy sir'
U can't give them that power cus they'll cheat u everything they can

Set a universal height-weight standard for expected healthy living then raise prices for those living unhealthy lifestyles. Allow private insurance companies to compete against raised health standards (obesity, alcoholism, smoker) to set market.

>tell insurance adjuster about GOMAD
>rates double overnight

Yeah let's raise taxes for everybody living unhealty
Lifting weights is sure to increase the rate because all of the idiots fucking up their back

JUST LOOK AT FUCKING VENEZUALA

>Of a normal BMI

that's most weightlifters without healthcare then

Hey statist kids, read this Stop giving the government the power to take our money and determine who gets some of it back when the solution is to massively reduce their role in healthcare.

In theory nice, but in practice government medicine is terrible.

Veterans in the USA get some of the worst health care around.

Do you honestly think civilians who haven't risked their life for their country with get better?

The VA system would be better if the government just got rid of the VA hospitals all together, perhaps left a few PTSD and other veteran specific clinics in place, but for everything else just issue insurance cards that cover private care, and even they they better not micromanage what kind of care veterans can receive.

For example, TRT, older veterans are required to travel to the VA clinics for their injection, not allowed to do it at home. They get 100mg every two weeks, regardless if it is enough to put them in the normal range. If they get a prescription for Viagra (and VA wont cover cialis) you only get at MAX 4 pills a month.

So, I know veterans who literally come into my gym, talk to an befriend big roided up bodybuilders who home brew, and literally are buying Testosterone cyp or enanthate from them, NOT because the veterans want to get huuuge, but because they are over 40, need TRT and for them 100$ bucks buys almost a year long supply. They might buy a 20ml vial with 5grams of test. At 100mg a week that last almost a year. They ussually buy 2 at a time, and they can take 150mg a week, feel fantastic and it last over a year. Work that out month to month, and that's a bit lower than the co-pay for a lot of private insurances.

Do I think its good that veterans are resorting to this? Fuck no

The point is that the over regulation of medications if what happens in the VA, where burocrats decide the doses and option the doctors have. Its a top down system, with idiocy at every level, and people more interested in covering their own ass with policy than helping patients - who they often treat like shit, because unlike private medicine, they don't have any competition.

Think eryone else would get better treatment?

Eh, I used to be a Libertarian. Government's role is to protect it's citizens and provide well-being. Military (less interventionism), education, infrastructure, and healthcare should be primary focus.

Responsible government > less government role

All of you people complaining definitely don't understand what it's like for people like OP and me. I pay 166/month for "catastrophic" coverage which has a 6500 deductible. I basically don't have health insurance except in the case I'm about to die, and I pay 166 a month for that. Ain't no one got time for that kind of shit.

The US government stepping into healthcare is what fucked it up. Read what said: it's impossible for more government involvement to fix the situation

Healthcare should be a luxury. If we didn't have millions of jobless slobs with their fucking hands out maybe it wouldn't cost so much for productive people relative to their income. Or, you know, maybe if these fucking freeloaders got jobs they could get healthcare through their employer like a normal human being. If I had it my way every benefit and every program would be cut off tomorrow and all of you fucking people would die in the streets.

If someone else has to provide something for you, it can't be a "right" without morally justifying slavery.

>inb4 hurr durr muh libertarianism

What if not enough people want to be doctors? Do we force people to become doctors? Welcome to Communist Russia where the government decides what career you get.

Should be government provided basic healthcare with privatized system on top of it, like legal services.

Communities should have public gyms free of charge like libraries.

There should be government run grocery stores to combat food deserts. Food stamps should not apply to junk food.

Nutrition should be taught in schools. Home EC should be mandatory to teach people to cook, budget, and take basic care of themselves.

There should be tax incentives for meeting certain health goals.

Healthcare is ridiculously expensive even for the middle class. I'm not poor but I haven't been to the doctor for what may be a major problem in months because my health insurance sucks and my deductible is sky high.

no more foodstamps for fat people. no more welfare in general for fat people. clearly when theyre fat they have too much, not too little

If not enough people want to do anything under the free market, then guess what?

The pay for whatever job goes up, and suddenly more people want to do it.

That is the basics behind Austrian economics.

That doesn't mean goverment has no roles to play at all, you don't want pirate capitalism either, but you want the least intervention possible, and the maximum freedom of choice.

There also is an element of personal responsibility too, if someone wants to abuse their body, do we all need to pay to keep them healthy?

Do I need to pay for the fucker who smokes a pack a day, eats like shit, and drinks like a fish?

Oh, shit, now he needs a leg removed from Betus, and his fucking 5 horse scooter to drive around Wal-Martagishu while buying more excess calories and insulin. - but I get to pay his 100,000s of medical bills?

Well of couse idiocy like that will skyrocket medicin, not to mention Mass Immigration of parasitical groups where far < than 50% work or contribute - but have no problem parasiting off such systems and having 6 kids per family.

Then libtards wonder why the cost of Obongo care skyrockets...

socialized healthcare is awful

liberal fags btfo by facts

Deregulate health insurance to drive down costs. Then tie universal health into the economy by having creating a fund for all American taxpayers and their dependants based on stock bundles built around American companies. The more successful we are as an economy, the more returns we see on our stock portfolio and the more funds we have to give people based on their tax stock portfolio. This encourages everyone to pitch in. We then turn around and say to the companies that we will give the returns/dividends on the stocks to the companies which offer the cheapest options with the best coverages for the people.
People are still encouraged to buy additional healthcare to cover nonbasic needs like cosmetic surgeries if they want to, but there is no requirement to do so.

The only way this is going to work is if we set it up around some type of growing asset for the people that ensures we can continue coverage into the future instead of creating a bubble where we end up with a growing bunch of old people to support that won't die.

To be really honest watching Americans discuss shit like this is grade A entertainment

American Healthcare system is retarded and basically a great example of a totally failed market.

Universal Healthcare works in countries with a political culture which has a strong operational civil service and Healthcare services are not a partisan issue.

America's biggest problem is their political climate and retarded socialism for big business ideals which means anything they do fucks over regular people to aid the super rich.

I like this.

Where do you live? What is your healthcare like?

>not having free healthcare

The Netherlands. It's supposed to be the best in Europe although it's far from flawless of course. But if I'm to believe the stories I hear about American healthcare we're not doing that bad (although your hospitals are better quality wise)

>he doesn't live in the most prosperous and powerful nation that has ever existed

your opinion really doesn't matter, sorry dude

>heavily implying that basic universal healthcare is a bad thing and that we should kick people out on their ass if they can't afford to provide for themselves
if you're both american i'm laughing, i'm in australia and medicare is great. you wouldn't know jack shit about how fantastic single-payer healthcare is here; our taxes aren't bad at all and we get great healthcare and bulk-billing. we're not the faggots paying 700$ to get asthma sorted out
the hospitals in the US charge you for fucking everything, it's probably the worst healthcare system in the first world

Someone's drinking the American kool aid.

Good luck dying in the street because you're afraid of your deductible.

I buy private healthcare because I have disposable income

>prosperous
for everyone? that's working out great
>powerful
the world police maybe

sure opinions don't matter but dying because of how unaffordable your complete shitshow of a healthcare system is does.

>cut finger using a mandolin slicer for the first time
>bloodeverywhere.jpg
>text photo to sister as a gross out joke
>little sister tells mom who calls me and insists i go to doctor
>holiday so i go to a 24 hour clinic
>asks if they take my insurance, they say yes
>see doctor, turns out i cut the skin clear off so there's nothing to stitch together and there's nothing they can do besides wash it and put a bandaid on it
>takes 5 minutes total
>turns out clinic doesn't accept my insurance
>get a bill for $800 a month later
>for a bandaid
>$800 for a bandaid
>$800 for a BANDAID
>$800 FOR A BANDAID

Fat people should not recieve any medical benefits.

Healthcare and pretty much any public services is fucking theft.

Give money to hard working companies, not abusive fucking burrocrat pieces of shit

The swiss model is a fucking robbery and something like health care should be total responsibility from government.

> Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition.
You HAVE to pay for one, regardless if you need it or not. If you are older, get sick many times or smoke, you pay MORE.

>They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance.
LIES. The Insures are constantly changing the prices for the sake of they own existence. They need profit to assure themselves.

> If a premium is higher than this, the government gives the insured person a cash subsidy to pay for any additional premium.
No one knows this shit. I only knew this way too late and now I can sign myself for the fucking year 2018!

At least you know that the health care works and that you won't die because you have no money, but the privacy is a waste of resources and money.
We have a accident insurance for most workers that works wonderful and is very cheap, because there is no competition.

oh man I can feel the jelly oozing through the screen

Obamacare has been a disaster but we'll be fixing that within the first few months of 2017

shut the fuck up bernie cuck

thankyou user
you cannot deny this shit
everyone fucking saying 'oh well it's leftwing/socialist/uses my tax therefore it won't work' has not endured what most of middle and lower class america has
my story is taking a friend to hospital for a pretty tight chest for asthma, got him some ventolin and he got the bill a week later for 700
it took two months to slap the hospital up enough to make them send a detailed invoice since the original had zero specifics
they chaged for everything. from the washing of the sheets he sat on to the sterilising of the equpiment used and even the motherfucking plastic cups used to drink water from.
it is the most jewish system in america.

Universal healthcare "works" when you are a 90% white population that can handle a crappy socialized medicine system without completely falling apart

see

australia is great
i'll move out in a couple years but i'm not risking my life in america unless i stumble upon wealth
also the PPACA is a good thing >:(

zero
argument

Maybe if you weren't subsidizing millions of leeches you would have enough money in your paycheck to go to the doctor.

That's when you call the hospital and let them know you can't and won't pay that bill. They literally can't do shit about it and have one of two options, give you a cheaper bill, or sell the debt for pennies on the dollar to a debt collector who has no power to do anything meaningful other than lower your credit score.

You people claim to be experts on the inadequacies of the american healthcare system and you probably don't even know that american hospitals aren't even allowed to deny someone acute aid because you don't know if you can pay for it. The only healthcare that a person could end up not being able to get at all before obamacare was for chronic diseases, IE, being fat or metastatic cancer, the first of which you should have been more responsible, and the latter of which you're already fucking dead.

>Healthcare is ridiculously expensive even for the middle class.

Yeah because of Obamacare

Not just obamacare, youngun'

It was expensive before then. Then republicans blocked a lot of what obamacare tried to do.

>recognize hospital is the problem
>decide to hide it by letting the public pay

That ain't fixing shit. Hospitals should be bend over instead of just accepting 800$ for 20min to be acceptable.

To give you an example how crazy it is: It costs me 40€ to get premium private patient treatment in germany for the same shit. Your problem ain't universal healthcare but accepting those costs. If you get universal insurance you will still pay for the overpriced bullshit just more well hidden over the course of years of insurance payments.

Socialised if it's a white country.
Privatised if it's not.

It was very affordable before then. Half as expensive for many middle class families.

>Then republicans blocked a lot of what obamacare tried to do.

The ACA passed without a single republican vote, could have been anything he wanted.

The hospital never actually gets that 800 dollar bill you fucking idiot. It's there as a bargaining measuring stick for dealing with the insurance companies. It's not intended for an uninsured patient to pay out of pocket. They know the patient will just walk away from it and so they write it off as a loss on their taxes, or, if the actual value of the treatment was substantial, they will send you a much more reasonable bill.

you do realize that this is exactly what obamacare is right

Obamacare was a tax cuckboi. Anything to the contrary is wishful thinking at best. Subsidized healthcare, not this ridiculous scam tier nonsense in the insurance industry, is the proven method for increasing your citizens access to necessary medical treatment.

This guy, and all but one of 133 industrialized countries, get it.

I'm a retard who doesn't know anything, but it seems like there's a systemic problem that boils down to how much everything cost. It doesn't really matter if private citizens, insurance companies, or the government pays for it. The issue is getting healthcare costs down to something reasonable.

The cost is arbitrarily inflated because muh free market(for reference, compare the cost of literally anything vaguely medical related in the States compared with literally any other industrialized country), if people are willing to pay more for like saving medicine and treatment then they should have to pay more xDDDDDDD. There is so much the republicans get right, but we are objectively shit in our healthcare system because it is a profit center for so many organizations and even our democrats are bought and paid for to the extent that when they do "change" the system all they do is add a tax and mandate participation in the insurance maymay.

"not intended" is a shitty excuse for running retarded pricing. Not everyone get's away for free and letting some go just means others have to pay more which comes back to bite you. The system is simply shit.

>tax breaks for citizens below a set BF% *not* BMI
>tax breaks for those who don't utilize their health care over a certain amount

Wrong. If you don't have insurance you get the same bill for an identical service that an insurance company does. The second a hospital charges two different people a different price for the same service, with no further preamble, they are getting legally shit on by everyone.

>I was too much of a retard to even think to call the hospital and ask about the bill, the whole system is broken!

you don't need a prescription for this, its free at most local pharmacies.

>Wrong. If you don't have insurance you get the same bill for an identical service that an insurance company does.

Yep, and then you either just don't fucking pay it, and suffer nothing more than a hit to your credit, or call them and let them know you can't pay the bill, so they send you a newer much cheaper one.

>The second a hospital charges two different people a different price for the same service, with no further preamble, they are getting legally shit on by everyone.

They do it all the time, it's a non-issue as long as you have standardized initial prices

If everyone can do it where do the people come from that claim financial ruin due to hospital bills?

how is that a good system.

Will not work along side Mass 3rd world Immigration.

This could work in a homogenous White country (if any still existed), or some East Asian countries.

The movies, mostly. Or uninsured people on facebook who have a car crash and then get a huge bill and go on a social media tirade before they find out what options they actually have

Because it means people with chronic shitty lifestyle disease wouldn't be covered by public money

>Angry burgers: the thread

This. Some legit stuff on both sides here, but swarms of illegals will break any systems infrastructure.

It would work. Just vet the immigrants and slow the overall rate at which they flow in such that it is slower than the rate at which our economy grows. Immigrants with prior work experience and education can skip the line and join the workforce immediately because they will increase economic growth rate.

>Free

As long as you're not forced to have health insurance like they force you to have car insurance, I'm fine.

Some things you can take care of yourself.

>2 weeks ago
>homegym, lifting at night before dinner
>almost finished, decide to do some curls to keep my elbows pain free (long story)
>get bar, put a 25 on each side, put on the rests
>go to get collars, nick bar with body as I come back. don't really think anything of it
>tighten collar on left side. right hand on bar near center, left on collar.
>switch hands, pickup other collar
>bar rolls off ohh shit ohh shit
>before I can move plate has smacked into hand
>haha it hit right at the grip. I grab on despite the pain
>somehow manage to push bar so it's now on end, but in doing so i lose balance and have plate smack hand a second time when it hits the floor
>doesn't look bad, I can bend it, it'll just be a bit swollen tomorrow
>that night , wake up in worse pain than after any surgery, drain hemotoma, feels partly broken
>tape the bitch. tomorrow's deadlift day
>do deadlift with middle finger out. fuck you bar, and fuck you 25lb plate

If I'd seen bone, that's a different story

Thats why you ask for some form of identification.

The thing is that in the United States, you have a perfect storm of bullshit hitting the taxpayer from multiple directions. First, you're not allowed to get prescription medicine across borders simply because they want to protect pharma companies (Medicare plan D, written to law by Billy Tauzin), effectively giving them monopolies, since even generics are slowed to a crawl in terms of getting shit approved by the FDA.

Second, Hospitals hire huge groups of Accountants, Specialists, Technoloigists, and charge you for EVERYTHING. Don't need an MRI? Tough shit, you're getting one anyway. X ray not necessary to examine something obvious? They're doing it anyway. It also doesn't help that they are very much corporations, and not a lot of competition. They buy smaller cheaper hospitals and are allowed to grow unchecked. They also have a massive legal staff that does more than just keep lawsuits against them in check. They lobby government officials to keep rules in their favor.

Third, Doctors are artificially kept in relative low supply so their prices are sky high. You have to go through a lot of hoops to be able to even be allowed to wear scrubs. Also, not all doctors are willing to do a certain job. Surgeons in particular cannot all do the same tasks despite sharing the same title (IE neurosurgeons).

You also have Insurance companies with little competition cherrypicking their customers, limiting choice via their network, and lobbying.

As far as I see, in order to get some kind of working system, these issues must be addressed first and foremost. I don't see this issue being addressed any time soon, not while the current congress is in place.

I've already got a letter from my insurer
Anyone with an Obamacare plan with have it cancelled at repeal
Luckily, I switched plans and bought the new one without the marketplace, so I'm safe

I'll guarantee that even if there are state laws disallowing such tactics, the repeal bill will provide indemnity for that. Add to that that the "replacement", if there ever is one, won't hit until 2019. Given the gap in time between ACA passage & the marketplace start, I'd say there's going to be about 6-8 years of whining about the repeal the majority asked for

>muh economy

The Trumpist critique of Obamacare is that it's a poorly-executed mechanically-flawed failure, not categorical, morally-indignant condemnation of its basic premise. Repeal and REPLACE, not laissez faire.

Guess it really is true that you gotta be tough if you're gonna be dumb

>muh universal ever expandong healthcare can exist for all without any type of ever expanding economic support
What I posted was the answer that fits a reasonable middle ground with moderate politics. People just don't want to accept it.

How are you supposed to pay for healthcare when you're dead because jamal and habid decided that today is chimp day

the only acceptable form of immigration is from other european/NA nations desu

accident insurance wouldn't be wonderful and cheap because there isn't competition. Competition is what makes things cheap and more effective.

I like Spain's model.
Literally anyone gets public healthcare. Sure, it might take longer than private centers to schedule a non-life threatening surgery, and it can get a bit crowded. But I can assure you, I haven't met a single spaniard that felt unprotected if something were to happen. If you make enough money you can just get a private plan and get all the benefits it has (Less crowded hospitals, easier appointment system...) but there is no real need for it.

Let me remind you, Spain is one of the worst economies in the EU and the civilized world and we have the biggest corruptions scandals you can imagine in a first world country. And yet, we have an awesome healthcare system paid by our taxes. People that are making 800$ a month working 40 hours a week have better access to healthcare than many americans.

People can always say that they prefer to choose where to spend their money and which healthcare they want to get. But the truth is that, like the police, the school system and other services provided by every government, healthcare is one of those things you can't leave to private companies exclusively, mostly because at some point the will refuse it to people that don't meet their standards because they are a business, not a public service.

I don't care what it is, if you have a thing, and you want that thing to be cheaper and/or more accessible, putting the government in charge of it is always the wrong answer.