I know there's a thread, but my post isn't getting any attention. I'd like to know what people think. Started with 3 day split, but ended up putting in an extra day (D) because I felt those muscle groups were lacking.
ABCDXABCDX basically
>A
Bench
Dips
Flies
Incline bench
Rope pulldown
>B
Squat/leg press
Leg extensions
Hip abduction
Calf raises
>C
Deadlift
Bent over horizontal rows
Seated low rows
Lat pull-downs
>D
OHP
Shrugs
Core isolation
Bicep isolation
>Bent over horizontal rows
Sorry, Pendlay rows, I forgot what they were called.
I also see a lot of people with their heads down when doing this, yet I see Arnold and many others with their heads up. Major difference? I've been watching myself in the mirror and keeping my head up desu.
Asking the same question:
Day A (all 3x8):
>Bench Press
>Incline DB Press
>Cable Flies
>Klokov Press
>DB Overhead Press
>Lateral Raises
>Tricep Extensions
Day B (all 3x8 except otherwise):
>Back Squat
>Front Squat
>Deadlift 3x5
>T-Bar Rows
>Pullups 5xF
>BB Curls
>Hammer Curls
Just out of curiosity, how long do you spend in the gym with this routine daily?
Push Day:
Incline BB Bench Press, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Flat DB Bench Press, 3 Sets, 8-10 reps
Cable Crossovers, 2 Sets, 8-12 reps
DB Shoulder Press, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Side Laterals, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Tricep Dips (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5-8 reps
Pull Day:
Pull Ups, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Pendlay Rows, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Shrugs, 2 Sets, 6-10 reps
One Arm Bent Over Rows, 2 Sets, 8-12 reps
Ez Curls (Standing Heavy), 3 Sets, 5-8 reps
Leg Day:
Squats (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5 3 1 System
Deadlifts, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Leg Extensions, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
SLDL/Leg Curls, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
BB Calf Raises (w/ Plates under feet), 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Upper Body:
Flat Bench (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5 3 1 System
Pull ups/Barbell Rows, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Incline DB, 2 Sets, 6-10 reps
One Arm DB Rows, 2 Sets, 6-10 reps
Standing OHP (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5 3 1 System
Side Hammer Curls (Light), 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Skullcrushers (Light), 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
Lower Body:
Deadlifts (Heavy), 3 Sets, 5 3 1 System
Squats, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Leg Curls, 3 Sets, 6-10 reps
Front Squats/Leg Extensions, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
BB Calf Raises, 3 Sets, 8-12 reps
PPL, PHAT, 5/3/1 combo
Hour and a half usually
You fit 7 separate exorcises into an hour and a half window? That tells me you aren't putting a sufficient amount of time and effort into individual exorcises. This can mean that the muscles you're trying to train are not getting the work they need to really grow.
You also have a problem of some exorcises being unnecessary or redundant. Klokov press, lateral raises, and front squat can basically go because other sets in your routine already hit the same muscle groups to similar or greater effect.
exercises pardon me. Phone was playing with me lol.
How long should it take? Assuming that every set takes 3 minutes, you get 63 minutes, and add a 1 minute rests and you get 84 minutes, which is about an hour and a half
Well first of all, 3 minutes per set? The fuck am I reading?
Second, 3x8 isn't enough. It just isn't. You should have 4-5 (preferably 5) sets of whatever you're doing to make sufficient gains for that muscle group. 3 sets of 8 for 7 different lifts explains why you are fitting 7 lifts in a 90 minute period.
Well you can try it and see, the measure of an untested program is the results. I see that you want each of the "big 4" to have their own day, and then programmed in assistance for related muscle groups.
I would choose fewer movements, and increase the volume and intensity on what remains. Practicing motor patterns is very important. You don't have set/rep schemes?
For example:
>A
Bench (strength), 5 sets, 2-4 reps
Dips (hypertrophy), 5 sets, AMRAP every set
Tricep assistance movement, 5 sets, AMRAP every set, 8-20 reps
>B
Squat
Hamstring exercise
Quad extension
Calf exercise
>C
Deadlift
Seated row (Pendlays after deadlifting is rough on the low back)
Lat pulldown
Bicep curl
>D
OHP
Farmer's walk
Lateral raises
Plank/ab wheel
Too much reading about programs, not enough lifting. I bet you are weak and small as fuck, prove me wrong.
I do have set/rep schemes as well, I just didn't get into them. 5x5-6 for big 4, 4-5x8-12 for accessories. Many accessories I finish the last set with a dropset to failure, as well as many of the sets alone being until failure.
To-failure and/or dropsets include:
Dips
Flies
Rope pulldown
Weighted calf raises (usually end up with 20 reps and failure, only muscle group to do so)
Pendlay rows
Seated low rows
OHP
All core and bicep workouts
For abs I dislike the ab wheel, so I do leg raises and weighted crunches.
Are bench and dips alone enough for chest?
Thanks a bunch man :)
hanging leg raises.
My pleasure. What is your progression method? Yeah an adduction-based movement such as a fly would definitely add to the development of your chest.
Quick question that doesn't deserve it's own thread but is more relevant here than in qtddiot:
can I get away with replacing pendlay rows with weighted chin ups and target the same muscles? I fucking hate them
no, just do another variant of the row
My progression method is basically get X lift to Y reps. Once I can do Y reps on X lift, then I need to add weight.
Example, for bench. I'll try to add a rep every time I go. If I do 165 for 5 reps one week, and the next week do it for 6, then 7, then I move up to 175 and try to bust out 5 reps. If I can do 7-8 reps with any of my big 3, I need to add weight. I shouldn't be capable of pushing past 6 reps in any scenario that isn't a warmup set.
Pendlay row trains static strength from a dead stop, zero tension, there's always tension from a chin up unless you're a tall fella touching down with your feet or something.
Pendlay row trains scapular retraction (rhomboids and middle fibers of the trapezius) way more than a chin up.
Pendlay row trains pronators whereas chinups train supinators. Pendlay row requires more posterior chain involvement.
If you don't like it, check your form first to make sure you're doing it right. Use embarassingly low weight (65 lb), really slow down the movement, pausing at the beginning middle end of the range of motion.
And/or, Pendlay rowing is not requisite for anything. You can substitute any kind of horizontal pull--seated cable, dumbbell, bodyweight inverted, machine, etc.
That's called double progression and it's actually my favorite. What are your current stats?
sincerely appreciate you taking the time to reply boys
Piggy backing on this - here's the program I'm doing. Usually AxBxCDx
A
Bench/Press 5x5
Press/Bench 3x8
Weighted Dips 3x8-12
Lateral Raises 3x8-12
Triceps
B
Squat 5x5
Power Clean 5x3
Pull-Up 3x8-12
Cable Row 3x8-12
Biceps
C
Bench/Press 5x1
Press/Bench 1x5
Incline DB Press 3x8-12
Face Pulls 3x8-12
Triceps 3x8-12
D
Squat 1x5
Deadlift 1x5
Pendlay Row 3x5
Weighted Chin Up 3x8-12
Biceps 3x8-12
Sincerely appreciate your sincere appreciation brah. Love me some weighted chins anyway though.
I don't really think that training a complex movement pattern once a week is a good use of energy/time.
Here's some changes I would make to reflect that belief.
Exclude power cleans
Deadlift on both B and D days
Choose one of dips and incline dbs and train it on A and C both
Do both lateral raises and facepulls on A and C, they're not very fatiguing to the CNS and you can use short rest times/dropsets
Choose one of chin up/pull up, choose one of cable/pendlay row
I get that you're trying to cover more bases with more variety, but I think that mastering fewer movement patterns at a time is more efficient in the long run.
I go 6 days a week. I have an arm day, back and shoulder day, and a day for chest. I've been doing it long enough where I don't have to plan my days because I just go all the fucking time
Just so you guys know if you're not varying the order you do the exercises in, over time your body will get used to it and you'll plateau.
And on a related note, fuck your 3x8 bullshit, you need power sets with your 6 rep max, 2 if you can manage. 3-4 exercises per muscle group is ideal on any given day, which is why splits are king.
Dude that said you can't do 7 exercises on any given day is probably a dyel scrub fatty just saying
Can you post pics? Do you ever train legs?
Deadlifting 2x a week doesn't sound like fun to me, or like something I could sustain for long if i were pushing myself on the B day, so I don't think I'm going to change that aspect of my program.
I agree re: lateral raises and face pulls, I'll start doing both.
Which would you choose of the three pairs you've suggested cutting down to one?
>Can you post pics
I'm on psych meds unfortunately and it makes it almost impossible to cut weight. I tried running 36 miles a week for a month straight and I lost zero weight. It drives me crazy desu because I put in the time and I diet but I still look like shit
>do you work legs
I genetically have huge legs, but yes I still work them. I do squats 3 days a week and DL on my back day which is twice a week.
I do cardio 15 minutes to warm up and 60 minutes once a week.
I want to be a personal trainer, I've been lifting for a year and I've read a few books on bodybuilding. I'd recommend Arnold's complete encyclopedia of bodybuilding.
I've put on a lot of muscle mass but to give you an idea of how bad psych meds are, I weighed 150 when I started and I'm 137 now. It's a bummer but I still work at it
what are your lifts?
alan thrall's beginner strength program is pretty similar to this but ABxCDxx with 5x8 for the big compounds
forgot to add you should separate squat and deadlift day, not back to back.
Chinup, cable row, dip
One tip I have for deads...do not do touch and go. Train singles only. What I mean by this is, set the bar down after every rep. Let go, stand up, reset stance/grip/tightness. This will allow you to train deads with much more frequency. If you don't like the sound of that, then I would suggest not going heavy at all and just doing higher reps of a hamstring focused deadlift variant
You can train squat and deadlift on the same day, back to back.
lifts?
255 x 3 front squat, 355 x 1 deadlift, 195 x 1 bench at 155 lb
haven't trained press in many moons but i will soon focus on it and drop bench
you can train bench and ohp on the same day, back to back.
you can quit your job and squat 20 times a day, 1,000 reps, every day of the week.
you can rob a bank and do weighted lunges in your getaway attempt.
you can go your own way
you can have it your way
sir I am afraid you are going to have to drop your posting credentials off on your way out.
:( teach me how to lift sensei
Let me just say I started at 5'8 125lbs. Now 145lbs after around 6 months.
Bench: 165x5
Squat: 205x6
Dead: 275x6 and 1rm 355. Though I can't keep good form when I 1rm so true 1rm would be 325. Working on keeping pristine form when I deadlift and squat.
That's pretty good gains from skelly mode dude. I'm 5'9 and have been training much longer but have muh injury excuses.
That's fine, I honestly, no bullshit, actually messed up the order of my days. My actual workout would be CABDX. I was focusing on getting what I actually do down on paper rather than the scheduling, but thank you, I agree deads and squats should half a rest day in-between if you believe in going hard.