Changing the Sticky

>Triggered fatty because it doesnt work for him.
Im doing PPL moron

>>PPL has no compound movements
>Think before you talk you stupid piece of shit.
Where did I say that at faggot? Look man if your stupid its ok just stay quiet so its less obvious.

PPL is dogshit, anybody saying otherwise should be slapped.

>The sticky should have a PPL routine

There's a reason it doesn't you DYEL faggot. PPL routine is only effective for people that are juicing, or have experience (1-2+ years) in lifting and already have a good strength base.

DYELs like you that shit on strength based programs when you don't even realize it's the only thing that would save you from looking like shit.

>>PPL has no compound movements
He never said that newbitch.

>Samefag

Holy shit. I leave for a couple years and this is the first thread I see. Veeky Forums has become garbage.

can one of you little twinks even explain to me what fucked up rationale you have for splitting your exercises into "pushes" and 'pulls"?

Are you that fucking retarded that you can't figure out how to properly balance your routine by, you know, the actual fucking anatomy?

SS, SL Greyskull etc have too low volume and other reasons not to use them as a beginner if your primary goal is building muscle

Full body routines are good for beginner, but different people with different goals=different routines

If you are a powerlifter, athlete or just want to become stronger, do SS etc

As a bodybuilder you should do a routine with more volume and different exercise selection

Not the person you're replying to, but guess how I know you're dyel as fuck

>PPL as a beginner

you would achieve better results going to the gym half as much and doing 3x full body each week. but every noob thinks they need to do some split routine because they are oh so advanced. fucking waste of time.

I bet some fag who uses words like twink knows much about anatomy

>change the sticky because I prefer bro splits
kill yourself you fucking imbecilic redditor

...

Thank God this gay ass loser board is dying.

Finally a voice of reason

Thank you

>As a bodybuilder you should do a routine with more volume and different exercise selection
No you fucking shouldnt you dumbass nigger. The volume meme only matters if youre on gear. How many times do we have to tell you.

Why as a bodybuilder would you want the bulk of your volume to go to your lower body when it is easier to build up as compared to your upper body?

>Source: My ass

Dumb fag.

>Full body routines are good for beginner
you do realize people say this because people who stop being "beginners" are on steroids?

How the fuck is their PPL not for beginners? They specifically state in the post that it's made for beginners, and that intermediate lifters should know by then what works for them

I swear almost every dyel on this board has that photo saved so that when anyone so much as mentions strength, they can respond with pic related. You're still dyel bud.

Answer the question bitch.

Gimme one good reason for splitting up your routine into overly-simplified buzzword categories?

You're a fucking idiot.

You're not going to get big moving bitch weight.

its actually like 1g/kg of your own weight so like you need half as much protein, but the main thing is the calories if u tryna get BIG

Why hating on PPL? I started off on PPL, got a decent base. IT was even the meme reddit PPL

>different goals=different routines

agreed, but you will never look good benching 135 3x10. that's why people recommend beginners get their strength up first

>this fucking discussion AGAIn

1. There is no better routine for strength than starting strength.

2. It's is verified with hard data and studies that 8-12 rep range and high volume is ideal for size- this is known to us.

3. Size gains can be made without pushing large weights (There is no need for a strength base).

4. While users of AAS will make the most progress on high volume routines, naturals also benefit from 8-12 rep range.

5. Starting Strength does not make you fat. Excess calories make you fat.

6. If you are training for strength, stop what you are doing and use starting strength.

7. If you are training for asthetics, stop what you are doing any use any one high volume routine with 8-12 rep range.

8. This thread is DYELs calling each other DYELs.

The 'SS' or 'PPL' is a stupid, stupid debate.

PPL will have you looking better faster, SS will have you stronger faster.

End of discussion.

This is like arguing about if a speedboat or a racecar is ideal.

Yes, and you're a twink, and you would look like that, but be much stronger had you done SS and didn't eat at a ridiculous surplus. But instead you did a meme routine.

>As a bodybuilder you should do a routine with more volume and different exercise selection
VOLUME AND SPLITTING WON'T DO ANYTHING IF YOU'RE NOT ON STEROIDS, GOOD FUCKING GOD. THEY LOOK GOOD REGARDLESS OF WHAT ROUTINE THEY'RE ON.

yeah and you wouldve had similar progress training 3x a week full body. nobody says PPL is useless it is just a waste of time going to the gym 6 times a week when you can do exactly the same 3x a week and probably progress faster because you are hitting every muscle 3x instead of 2x a week.

>I have to prove something on an Anonymous Anime Image board
Sad life

thanks senpai

You're a weak skinny faggot though.
How long did it take you to get like that? A year? Two?

and not a single source was cited that day...

No you litttle Nigger started, so give me a reason not to.

>muh rep ranges

Rep ranges don't mean shit, unless you're comparing 4 singles @8-9 to 4 sets of 8 @8-9

manlet fuccboi LMAO. probably just hit 1pl8

Why not run SS after the PPL? By then you would have a hypertrophy base, better coordination and you wouldn't completely suck at the lifts. Why must it always be an "either/or" scenario - the best results come from combining different approaches when time comes.

Split your year into periods where you focus on size, strength and leaning out - it's not that hard.

He looks better than 99% of that salty fattys in CBT

Maybe figure out how to balance anterior to posterior muscle development through understanding of the anatomy used in the different workouts that you're doing?

Basically don't be a faggot

>it is easier to build up as compared to your upper body?
Because it isnt? Most people have extremely weak legs and have a long way to go. Most people cant fully squat 135 first day in the gym but could get to 315 in a year with work.

Then go back to red dit you faggot and stay there. We arent saying this to be cute. Go back and stay away.

As opposed to what? PPL is good for intermediate lifters not beginners.

5'5 140lbs?

Yes

>PPL will have you looking better faster, SS will have you stronger faster.
No

Haha! No he doesn't. CBT is fucking Klokov compared to that twink.

You must look like shit to have such low standards.

lol

see dumbshit

I am a twink, a twink that pulls 405 so obvs PPL didn't fuck me up for strength.

I enjoy going to the gym

6 months to 3pl8, 1.2 years for 4pl8

Benching 2pl8

5'6 140lbs

It's 6 months m8 slow down kek

The sticky will never be changed. Why? Cause no one on Veeky Forums actually lifts

Just look at CBT, the only good looking ones are Lotus, Bellybutton and that Viking Dude.
Rest looks like shit.

>It only promotes strenght based programs.
And this is a bad thing because...?

Amazing sources senpai!

Totally convinced me and ended the debate forever!! I am going to sell all the weights in my gym because I can simply get aesthetic benching 20 kg for a shit-ton of reps, so much volume FUCK

>Then you would have a hypertrophy base
That is literally the dumbest shit I've heard all week

Ahh yes, the twink lift of choice, the deadlift. The only lift they can actually do "well".

itt: dyels don't realize there's not much difference in results between various routines as long as you train regularly for a long period of time and try to add weight whenever it's possible

just go and lift, follow any program that isn't batshit insane, don't neglect big groups too much and eventually you'll be big and strong

>hypertrophy base
MEMESSSSSSSSSSSS

>better coordination and you wouldn't completely suck at the lifts
Thats the principle SS or SL is built around you idiot

>Split your year into periods where you focus on size, strength and leaning out - it's not that hard.
Drop dead. Fucking drop dead.

That doesnt make any sense. Literally none. PPL is good for intermediates and allows you to hit each movement 2x a week which is fine for an intermediate lifter. Stop posting.

100% not true at all

It doesnt need to be changed. It doesnt need to spoon feed idiots and tourists.

>Because it isnt? Most people have extremely weak legs and have a long way to go. Most people cant fully squat 135 first day in the gym but could get to 315 in a year with work.

Are you serious? Your lower body is is easier to overload because it is stronger than your upper body by default. Why do you think people complain about T-Rex mode or end up with higher squat and deadlift numbers and high-school level benches?

>1. There is no better routine for strength than starting strength.
True.
>2. It's is verified with hard data and studies that 8-12 rep range and high volume is ideal for size- this is known to us.
Only if your on gear.
>3. Size gains can be made without pushing large weights (There is no need for a strength base).
Only if you're on gear.
>4. While users of AAS will make the most progress on high volume routines, naturals also benefit from 8-12 rep range.
No.
>5. Starting Strength does not make you fat. Excess calories make you fat.
True.
>6. If you are training for strength, stop what you are doing and use starting strength.
True.
>7. If you are training for asthetics, stop what you are doing any use any one high volume routine with 8-12 rep range.
You forgot to add "and use steroids".
>8. This thread is DYELs calling each other DYELs.
Welcome to Veeky Forums

Post lifts friendo! I guess I deadlifted my way to a 400 wilks lmao

Please keep making excuses, or better yet, lets have a look at that "strong" bear mode body of yours so I can see what I should strive for :^)

that dude is pretty jacked now if you watch rippletit videos

CMON 5 SCOOPS

Hey it can't hurt

Oh you compete? You know wilks score is for competitions only? You know where you have to follow specific rules and follow specific commands.

You didnt understand what i said. I said people have a large amount of ground to make up in their squat numbers. You can put 200lbs onto your squat easily. Doing that for an upper body lift is insanely difficult. So its easy to up your muscle mass through strong leg movements.

Yes but the idiots who keep posting that picture wont mention that fact.

Because if you run SS for 6 months, you spent 6 months doing a routine that is not optimal for size increases.

Very simple.

Hypertrophy base stuff is a total meme- the reason most guys that are big are strong is because they have been lifting (with intensity) and (following a strict diet) for 5+ years. Good luck lifting for 5 years, even in a rep range that is not ideal for strength, with strict diet, and proper form, and not accidentally getting stronger (provided you have increased the weights over time, IE, progression).

You are much better off training for size for 10 years than training for strength for 6 months and size for 9.5.

In the long and short term, SS is not efficient for bodybuilding.

You really should show you 'before' not just the 'after' if you want to use your physique as a testament to the successfulness of a program.

>No

Sheer delusion.

Science disagrees with you.

I just hope they listen to the common sense.

>Hurrr durrr I don't know what he's talking about therefor it doesn't make sense

Are you that completely uneducated that you don't realize that a push pull routine is just an easy way of balancing out posterior('pull") and anterior ("push") muscle groups for retards that can't figure it out on their own?

holy shit, you are approaching levels of stupidity I didn't think possible. This board is complete dogshit

>Comparing 1 Set
Go fuck yourself Nigger

>Everyone who is Aesthetic is on Roids :(((
Haha fag

That's not the point Nigger

LOL 400 wilks? What're your other lifts then? That's a 170kg deadlift m8, weak as piss.

No shit? Feel free to come to my next meet and tell me in person faggot, at the South Midlands meet

This is true actually.

Stay tuned

If you are a beginner, you should do a full body split 3 times/week with focus on progression in the compound movements regardless of whatever the fuck your training goal is
That is given

But since a powerlifter and a bodybuilder have different goals, their training should reflect that
Stop kidding yourself that SS will give you a bodybuilder physique
It will give you stong legs, strong back, miserable shoulder and arm development and its easy to overdo the calorie recommendations and become fat
Thats ok if youre a powelifter or a football player
For a bodybuilder, its not

Yes, as a bodybuilder you will never build muscle without strong basic lifts, so especially as a beginner focus on them
But SS and similar programs are not the only way to achieve this premise and for a bodybuilder not the best, because of the muscular imbalances it produces
That doesnt mean the consequence are high volume/low frequency splits like chest back legs arms shoulders each one time a week
They work not well for the majority of trainees, especially not for those with average genetics and not on gear

A more bodybuilding orientated full body routine looks like this:

Squats
Bench
Pull Ups
Overhead Press
Biceps
Abs

All sets across 3x10
3times/week
slowly add weight to the exercises, like every other week
Maybe alternate some exercises, like squats with deads
It has more volume than ss, but not too much
It has the whole body covered, with focus on the important body parts for bodybuilding
3x10 will make slower progress with weight on the bar as 3x5, but gives you more volume necessary for hypertrophy

I dont see any reason to not train for your goals right from the start

>MEMESSSSSSSSSSS
Yeah bud, that's why guys who have played sports and have muscle already built are able to lift MORE. If you have more muscle mass you will be able to lift more because you have more muscle to recruit. This is simple stuff.

>Thats the principle SS or SL is built around you idiot
And that's why we have about 10 form check threads a day. People go into the weight room with no muscle and no coordination and start aggressively loading the bar. What's the worse that could happen, right?

>Drop dead. Fucking drop dead.
It's caveman-level periodisation. You train differently depending on your goals. You can't solely train for hypertrophy and you can't solely train for strength - one drives the other.

At 63kg bw, you would have to have a 490kg total to have 400 wilks

Your deadlift is 170kg.

That means somewhere between your squat and your bench you have 320kg, which is nearly 2x your deadlift.

Just got busted you Pseudo fag

THIS.

wat

It's simple, to get bigger you need progressive overload. Strength based training is more efficient at increasing progressive overload. Every big cunt in your gym can lift decently heavy shit, at the very least. But hey, stick to your "hypertrophy routine" and have fun being stuck on a sub 2lp8 bench.

I wasn't speaking specifically about bodybuilding - just lifting in general. I know "hypertrophy base" is a shit term but I used it because I am lazy and it's easy to understand.

>Because if you run SS for 6 months, you spent 6 months doing a routine that is not optimal for size increases.
>Sheer delusion.
Please look at read that image then kill your family

>easy way of balancing out posterior('pull") and anterior ("push") muscle groups for retards that can't figure it out on their own?
I dont get this. What do you mean cant figure it out? It is figured out. PPL. Thats figured out. Why is that bad for an intermediate lifter. I still dont get what you mean and you dont either. Kill your family.

>>Comparing 1 Set
Thas not what it set. Learn to read.

>Yeah bud, that's why guys who have played sports and have muscle already built are able to lift MORE. If you have more muscle mass you will be able to lift more because you have more muscle to recruit. This is simple stuff.
Thats not the way it works you idiot See the image above again. Lifting for "strength" leads to hypertrophy more than volume. Learn to read.

>And that's why we have about 10 form check threads a day
>something is tough so i better not do it
Thats their fault, the book is meant to be read. Form videos are all over youtube.

This is what you get

The problem with PPL is that it's entirely inefficient because it doesn't take muscle-protein synthesis into consideration. With a full body routine, the synthesis could lasts 6/7 days out of the week, optimizing your gains. While on PPL, synthesis lasts 3/7 days out of the week because you're isolating the work being done on the muscle groups. The fact is, someone doing PPL for a year will get the same results as someone on a full body routine for 6 months. Also, splitting your muscle groups into separate days is commonly pushed by people who use steroids, who will look good regardless of their splits or rep range.

>I dont get this. What do you mean cant figure it out? It is figured out. PPL. Thats figured out. Why is that bad for an intermediate lifter. I still dont get what you mean and you dont either. Kill your family.

Because it places exercises into arbitrary categories. The words 'push' and 'pull' are utterly meaningless to muscle development and it propagates a misunderstanding of the underlying structures. Once you understand the actual anatomy, you can formulate your routine to you specific goals and balance it out he way you want.

AKA - it's routine building for retards.

Thats only 1 person. Its his diet thats to blame not the routine. He doesnt even understand bulking and cutting. His fault not the routine.

>arbitrary categories.
They arent though. I dont see why its bad to take compound movements and their accessories and break them into those 3 categories. Its a little cookie cutter sure but Its nowhere near as bad as you are making it seem.

>Thats not the way it works you idiot See the image above again. Lifting for "strength" leads to hypertrophy more than volume. Learn to read.
Thats not the way it works you idiot See the image above again. Lifting for "strength" leads to hypertrophy more than volume. Learn to read.

Volume is volume - how you get it is up to you. Higher rep ranges are an easier way to do it because it doesn't gas you out as you don't work in higher intensity brackets.

>Thats their fault, the book is meant to be read. Form videos are all over youtube.

The fuck? Are you expecting people to learn how to do the movements from a book or videos when they are physically incapable of doing them due to a life of inactivity? This is daft. SS and SL are perfect for people with athletic backgrounds or guys who have been messing around with splits for years - they are awful for your average gamer geek.

>Volume is volume - how you get it is up to you
>Higher rep ranges are an easier way to do it because it doesn't gas you out as you don't work in higher intensity brackets.
Clearly this isnt true. The image disproves what you just said.

>they are awful for your average gamer geek.
Those routines are designed for people who've never set foot in the gym. SL has you starting with just the fucking bar.

Youre an idiot stop posting.

is a farmer walk a push or a pull?

It's a weighted carry.

Broscience: The Post

>Clearly this isn't true
Do you want me to tell you how much tonnage you should be moving each session? Volume is fucking volume - you can get it with high reps or you can go with a Sheiko approach.

>Those routines are designed for people who've never set foot in the gym. SL has you starting with just the fucking bar.
You really don't get it. Starting with the "fucking bar" is meaningless when the person is PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of setting up for a correct squat, let alone a deadlift. Then you get into the most common problems such as a weak lower back and pathetic quad strength while having the upper body of a 10-year-old.

Muscle-protein synthesis is most certainly not bro science.
t. friend of a sports scientist

I Put it on leg day actually. Personal preference. I gurantee that minor detail isnt going to sink your routine.

>You really don't get it.
No you dont. Those programs are designed for that very reason. I dont get why you think it would be easier to practice squatting less as opposed to more.
>Volume is fucking volume
No it sint
3x10 vs 5x6 is not the same at all. Even though they are both 30 reps the amount of weight you would be moving is vastly different.

Stop posting.

YOU ALL FAGGOTS WITH SS AND SL AND ALL THAT GAY SHIT YOU WILL NEVER MAKE ANY GAINS YOU UNDERSTAND TO GET HUGE AND SWOLE YOU NEED SOME VOLUME AND INTENSITY NOT SOME GAY FAGGOT SHIT BY THAT THE FAT FUCKING FAGGOT RIPPETOE JUST HIT THE GYM AND LIFT ITS EASY MOTHERFUCKERS YOU ALL GET FAT WITH ZERO GAINS AND YOU WILL LOOK LIKE SHIT YOU NEED SOME GOD DAMN VOLUME NOT JUST SQUATS AND DEADS AND ALL THAT SHIT YOU WANT TO GET HUGE AND GAINZ AND NO WOMEN WILL TALK TO YOU THEY ALL WILL BE HAHA YOU FAT PUSSY DO YOU EVEN LIFT YOUR NO BODYBUILDER YOUR JUST A FAT FAGGOT THAT SUCKS RIPPERTARDS DICK OFF

>No you dont. Those programs are designed for that very reason. I dont get why you think it would be easier to practice squatting less as opposed to more.

Have fun practicing squatting with people who are literally not fit enough to squat.

>No it sint
3x10 vs 5x6 is not the same at all. Even though they are both 30 reps the amount of weight you would be moving is vastly different.

Again, do I need to tell you the exact tonnage you need to be lifting? Or how about the relative tonnage to your maxes? Or better yet - tell you to train in the 10-12 rep range for 5-6 sets because that would achieve the desired training effect? It's the same thing - volume is fucking volume, how you get it is up to you. You could literally do 30x1 at 90% but good luck keeping it up during an entire training cycle.

It's so hard to get any useful information, between the extremists saying X routine either does nothing or makes you into Goku and people lying about their natty status and time they've been lifting.
I've been lifting for 1 year now but feel as ignorant as the first day.

>It's so hard to get any useful information,
not it isn't
>between the extremists saying X routine either does nothing or makes you into Goku
This place is a cesspool of ignorance, there's no way around that fact and no way to change it
>and people lying about their natty status and time they've been lifting.
Anonymous board is like that, people lie on the internet
>I've been lifting for 1 year now but feel as ignorant as the first day.
lazy