GOMAD claims a 20-30 pound increase in a couple months with little of it being fat

there's no science on this, it's an art.

you wanna read the literature go ahead, but it'll tell you to eat only 250 calories over maintenance. And there's not even any literature on gaining strength. There is but there's only studies on leg extensions or curls done for 12 reps for a week. Hardly useful for this application.

Selye's theories are also relevant but they weren't conducted using modern human metabolism.

People have gotten strong with these training methods even before Reg Park in the 60's (who inspired this type of novice training, and eventually The Texas Method)

The original GOMAD from the 60's was based around a 20 rep squat routine and drinking a gallon of milk a day. it was nuts

>there's no science on this, it's an art.
Lack of proof does not mean you can claim it's art.

No one is claiming that GOMAD and such shitty Rippletits diet advice doesn't work; we're just saying that it's fucking shitty advice that gets you fat and overestimates how much LBM you are actually gaining.

You could technically gain a lot of muscle using only Nautilus machines too. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

>gain 5 lbs of muscle (would've been 10 if they did a brosplit

lmao

you're trying to create a super-compensation with this level of training, the only way to recover is to overfeed yourself. It's the only way

He didn't say muscle mass. He said lean body mass. That is literally everything that doesn't include fat. Very different claims.

The GOMAD claim is for skinny faggots as well. People who are capable of gaining weight initially while not getting very fat.

This is what I looked like 7 months in after 20+ lbs of weight gain. I could have gained much more than that still stayed pretty lean. Skinny fags can put on good chunk of lean mass in the beginning.

He claimed Zach gained 80 pounds, 60% of which was muscle. That's 48 pounds in 15 weeks. Anyone who believes this is delusional.

GOMAD is a quick way to put on mass, but too much of it will be fat. A more controlled bulk is always the right way to go about it, even for skinnyfags.

I'm confused, what else is there to gain other than muscle or fat? Bone? Liver?

Oh, so he gained bones and tendons did he?

Wow SS really is something.

>his is what I looked like 7 months in

I don't want to be rude but this is not that impressive user, progress is progress good for you but come on.

>. I could have gained much more than that still stayed pretty lean.

With a real routine of course.

Itt the only two things in ur body r fat and mussel

i'm confused about this as well
surely there is tissue here and there but it can't possibly amount to that much mass

> drinking milk makes your body create new bones and organs

>bone density doesn't increase from weightlifting

What is bone and tendon density, holy fuck you dont know wolfes law do you? Fuck off underage b&

relevant thread: currently doing stronglifts and bulking at ~0.1kg per day, is this too much?

I have no idea, does it? that'd be neat

>bone density increasing by several pounds over the course of just 11 weeks
The weight of ALL THE BONES in the average man is about 30 lbs. Are you saying the increase in bone density caused by lifting is significant enough to budge the dial in just 11 weeks? lolololol

That shit grows slower than anything else.

In terms of speed of growth:
Muscles > tendons > bones.

> drinking milk and lifting increases bone density
> this is the same as adding muscle mass

rip shills stop changing the goalposts and leave

Don't fall for GOMAD meme
People say that soda is empty calories then proceed to drink milk that has whooping 3 protons per 100g fucking retards

if my math is good thats around 1 1/2 pounds per week.
yeah sounds good

>I have no idea, does it? that'd be neat
It does, however significant increases happen over the course of a long time, not weeks.

>wolfes law
Wolff's, and again, it's slow as shit.

>periodized system with 3 week blocks for novices
what did he mean by this

wtf shitty milk are you drinking

> implying anyone only drinks 100ml of anything

No shit hat's why I'm comparing it to soda

So does it work or not chodemeister? I dont even like gomad but youre fucking dumb if you believe that bone and tendons are not to be included in gains

More advanced training methods split up training into phases, also called blocks, also called mesocycles/microcycles.

E.g. one block can consist of high volume training while the next block can consist of high intensity training.

In general, a lot of people agree that for a true beginner, that kind of program intricacy is not really that important or even beneficial because your capabilities are going to change so rapidly.

Quite frankly, as long as you have an okay-ish balanced routine that you are consistent with and progress with, you'll probably be okay for at least a few months.

As a true beginner, it doesn't matter that much. Just don't become a fatass.

but milk doesn't fuck up your teeth and it gives you some healthy fats as well as vitamin D and calcium so fuck off faggot

78 lbs in 6 months, 46 of which were lean body mass. Not pure muscle. These are two separate things. He didn't claim 46 lbs muscle.

Increases in bone density. Yes, some increases in connective tissues. But a big chunk (easily 10+ lbs) will be water weight. Glycogen storage. Increased water retention from all the sodium of eating like 5k calories a day. All the increased weight of what's in your gut. If you double your food intake, The amount of stuff in your gut is going roughly double was well, adding a few lbs as well.

There are a lot of things that contrbute to body weight apart from fat and muscle mass.

My point was that I easily gained 20+ lbs in 7 months while staying very, very lean. Rippetoe is claiming 46 lbs of LBM (not muscle mass) in 6 months, in a guy that started off very thin and put on almost 80 lbs. This is not particularly unbelievable.

What if I had the same routine for like a year and a half with literally no changes whatsoever in rep scheme or intensity

The missus started the new years exercise thing and challenged me to try. I might fuck around in my basement 3 times a week and eat fuckin proper... Loads of calories and protein probably in the range of 3300-3500 a day.
Love handles gone, belly a little less, and from the tits up bigger.
I've gained about 4 lbs in about 3 weeks.

...I dunno...

oh, food and water=LBM now?

>So does it work or not chodemeister? I dont even like gomad but youre fucking dumb if you believe that bone and tendons are not to be included in gains
Wow.

Learn to read.

It's included but it if you think it's going to shift the argument in your favor, you are absolutely retarded.

The percentage of gains from tendons and bone is minuscule. Let's say you gain 10% bone mass over 11 weeks, which, if you think about it, is absolutely insane and impossible. You've basically regrown your ENTIRE FUCKING FEMUR. And that 10% would still be only 3 lbs for a 200 lbs man, let alone some 140 lbs twink that Rippletits is aiming GOMAD for.

absolutely btfo'd that user, I can hear him huffing in anger and his shaking hands smashing his keyboard as he desperately types out a reply

I should restate everything in one post since you're an idiot.

A 200 lbs man will on average have about 30 lbs of bone. So gaining 10% of that mass in Rippletit's 11 weeks is still only 3 lbs of the supposed 41 lbs of LBM, Gaining 10% of bone density is actually probably more than growing an entirely new femur, and that's fucking insane, especially considering just a MINOR fracture takes 6-8 weeks to heal, let alone growing that much bone.

Let's say 10 pounds of that 48 was bone + connective tissue. That's still 38 pounds of muscle. In 15 weeks.

Have you ever been to the grocery store and held those 5lb ground beef packs? Imagine slabbering 8 of those all over your body. That's how much muscle Rip claims Zach made.

Yeah, those have always been included when taking LBM measurements. Your LBM is literally your weight minus your fat mass. All the remaining mass is the LBM. If you are particularly well hydrated that day, or gorged on carbs and sodium, your LBM can easily go up by 5-10 lbs. That's how the measurement works.

Where are you getting 15 weeks from?

"The fact is that Zach has gained 78 lbs. in 6 months, 46 lbs. of which is LBM. His squat has gone from 145 x 5 to 345 x 5."

It was 6 months. We're talking like 26 weeks.

10 lbs is way too generous for bone and connective tissue. Let's call it 5.

5 bone and connective tissue
25 actual muscle mass
10 water weight from increased glycogen stores and sodium intake from high cal diet
3 lbs of just additional junk in his gut from doubling his food intake
2 lbs increased blood volume from exercise protocol

There, that's 45 lbs, all easily accounted for, using realistic figures for a young 240 lb male. There's nothing unrealistic about these numbers at all.

What the fuck is GOMAD

What the fuck is GOOGLE

google.com/search?q=gomad&oq=gomad&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j69i61j0l3.2541j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

so can I keep doing strong lifts and eat at 2150 calories and it not matter?
felt like I was gonna throw up at just that desu

The issue is that he gained 1.7lbs of LBM a week, according to your calculations. Males can usually only put on 0.5lbs of LBM a week.

Rip never said ANYONE can gain 20-30 on GOMAD, and he never claimed that GOMAD is for everyone.

The idea was, if you take a skinny 16 year old /jp/ shut-in with twig arms but raging hormones and he starts lifting and actually eating enough food (GOMAD) he will maybe gain 30 pounds of lean mass, most of which he should've gained anyway if he just played sports and ate enough beforehand.

Then you keep pushing SS for as long as you can and if that means you have to go obese so be it because according to Rip it's better to go obese but stretch out novice gains for as long as possible, and then to cut. As you're approaching the end of SS squats should be so heavy you can only go heavy twice a week, and so you have to rest 5+ minutes between sets. There's a fag on ss forums who keeps a log that claims to have run ss for I think two years, went obese but took his squat to 4 plate for reps or something close.

SS is pretty good as far as routines go and if you actually read the book you'd see that minimalist bullshit only holds for the first weeks, then as your recovery capabilities increase you start adding accessories like dips and curls and shit.

I fell for Veeky Forums's version of SS where you hafta do only skwats and curls are forbidden! and regret not reading the fucking book attentively and doing the actual rippetits version, retarded bulking included.

>listening to a "coach" who advocates eating at McDonald's

>bone density increases by multiple kg when bulking.

Try a few hundred grams

What are you talking about? He says nothing like that

What he says is
1. Do the exercises he prescribes
2. Sleep 8 hours a night
3. Eat a massive amount of calories
4. Go up to but not over 20% bodyfat
5.Enjoy sick strength gains

>SS is pretty good as far as routines go and if you actually read the book you'd see that minimalist bullshit only holds for the first weeks, then as your recovery capabilities increase you start adding accessories like dips and curls and shit.

If YOU actually read the book, you'd realize that the only thing he recommends that approaches an accessory lift is chin ups. Though he specifically says they're important enough to be considered part of the core program.

The "Useful Assistance Exercises" part of the book detailed how to do assistance exercises that might prove useful was not shit that was to be included in the beginner program. That was an explanation on how to do stuff that might prove useful later down the road.

The beginner program includes only squats, bench press, OHP, deadlifts, power cleans, and chin ups. If you add other shit, it's not the beginner program. The beginner program is supposed to go until linear progression is no longer possible, which, for your typical young man, is going to take one deload and probably about 6 months. Provided there's enough eating and sleeping.

so you're saying my kfc is lbm? sweet

Yeah GOMAD is pure bullshit, never do it and anyone serious about fitness should never recommend it.

Milk is mostly water.
Protein per calorie is the better metric.