I did PPLPPLx on a bulk

YOU FUCKING NEED TO DO DEADS!!!1!!

Maybe PPL isn't for you.

Don't listen to people here who think there one routine is the best routine.

If lifting 6 days a week on PPL didn't work for you then try something else.

>I want to have an aesthetic physique
>but I am completely willing to neglect my hamstrings/spinal erectors/forearms/upper back in general
>Why aren't I making gains??????
For what it's worth you'll get really similar hypertrophy gains from an intermediate strength training program AND you can still do some accessories.
Also can you post your PPL program?

It doesn't matter if you're a beginner or not, a beginner program is simply the fastest rate of progression without the need for periodization. At 5'10 150lbs I am almost certain that you can make linear gains with a good diet and regular schedule. Therefore, it would be best to do a beginner program. Call it a linear program if you don't like being considered a beginner but it's not a reflection on you.

Can you post your routine?

>I don't think I'm really a beginner. This is just the first time I've taken it seriously.
So you never lifted before, you weigh 150lbs and 5'10 and you don't even know how to work out?

You are the definition of a beginner. Stop doing your sissy work outs and lift heavy idiot with compound excercises.

Squats, benches, and deadlifts at the very least.

is PPL routine for roiders only?

1 day a week for recovery is pretty difficult for someone not on that there celltech to keep up with imo
Maybe you can do it but I think you'd have better results from either an Upper/Lower split or an intermediate strength training program with some accessories

All right.

Which beginner routines should I look up?

SS, SL, and what else?

Even though you're only working out a particular muscle group twice a week?

Does it really interfere with bicep recovery so much if you work out your legs?

doesn't the muscle need like 48 hours to repair before you can hit it again?
also PPL doesn't need to be done 6 times a week. could throw in a rest day whenever to make it down to 4 or 5 days a week even.

Those pretty much are the beginner routines. You do not need to do anything complicated. FWIW I started lifting 6 years ago and after a sports injury I returned to the gym for the first time in over a year. I'm basically doing SS and it's working great for regaining the strength I've lost.

Am I supposed to add in accessories? I've never really been clear about that.

I don't recommend accessories until you get used to the program and know how your body responds (2-3 months minimum.) If you then feel that you need to add accessories based on your experience (not just oh hmm I wonder if this is good) then feel free to add them. But for most people, no, they do more harm than good. Just do the program as written and start light, form is important.

No, but the retards on Veeky Forums who preach strength training as the be all end all for anyone. PPL is good for naturals, as long as you eat enough and rest enough, just like any routine.

Switch to 4 day push pull op

I should add that Rip's calories recommendations are really aggressive and are overkill. I would recommend a 500-600 calorie surplus. Scooby's site has a good calc

>I would recommend a 500-600 calorie surplus. Scooby's site has a good calc

Honestly I struggle with deciding calories a lot.

I can't seem to determine what my BMR is. People tell me it's simple and that I just need to eat X calories and see how my weight changes, but my weight fluctuates so much day to day. When my weigh can differ by 2-4 lbs everyday, how am I supposed to really tell if I actually gained/lost a few pounds after a month of dieting or bulking?

Is it retarded to be doing PPL on a cut? I'm a fatty who is cutting down, so far my body is steadily looking better, and I read everywhere on Veeky Forums that SS is a meme and you'll trex yourself.

Am I doing myself a disservice by doing a PPL when I'm on a deficit and should I swap to something else? It seems hard to tell the difference between what a good cut/bulk routine is.

thats why you have to be consistent with it. diet for a month or 2 and you should have an overall lower average weight. it might have a sort of standard deviation though as you are experiencing now but thats normal, weight fluctuates all the time

what this dude said.

PPL is not great for strength gains, especially if you're not that strong. What are you lifts rn?

>falling for the PPL beginner meme

Leddit strikes again!

Also these new captcha's are autism

PPL is a routine for natties you mongoloid

SS retards don't understand that their 3-day full body routine gives their muscle groups 1-2 days of rest between workouts, whereas a PPLPPLx gives them 2-3 days of rest between workouts. Rippetoe doesn't teach math.

What about doing 4 Fullbody workouts? A:Push+Legs, B:Pull+Legs. ABxABxx. Push and Pull always upper body. Every time I see PPL discussion thread I remember how silly it is to give legs an exclusive day.

rofl

if you're consistent with your workouts (i.e. same time each day) then there's 2 days rest between workouts, and 3 days on the weekend

higher frequency is always better, all studies points at this fact, IF volume and intensities are adjusted so recovery doesn't become a problem, which SS does by keeping deadlift to a single set, no accessories, low total volume etc.

this is why PPL is such a meme, you try to have everything, high volume, high intensity, high frequency, full of accessories, barely any rest days

i mean, just use your brain for once and think about what you're saying. resting has barely anything to do with the muscles themselves, but your CNS. you can squat every day if you want, the muscles can handle it, but you need to adjust volume and intensity to not fry your CNS in a week.

>resting has barely anything to do with the muscles themselves, but your CNS
Bro science

PPL is a great routine for individuals with experience, a year or two of lifting
thing is doing PPLPPLx is unnecessary, PxPxLxx is good enough.

This. Im doing ppl 3 times a week, 6 is too much. You need time to recovery OP.

it's the opposite of broscience

there's a lot of succesful lifters & programs that utilizes 5 day/wk per lift, and even higher in some extreme cases. just look at sheiko's bench specialization programs.

obviously it's done using DUP and most likely tons of different variations, but the main targeted muscles are still being hit 5 days per week.

and when i say "barely" i mean compared to the CNS. everytime you hear someone talk about recovery, fatigue or anything else semi-related, it's always about the CNS, and never about the muscles themselves.

but keep hitting your muscles once a week bro and see where that gets you without roids

PPL once a week is fucking retarded, you only hit each muscle group 1x a week

do an upper lower, your current routine might as well be a 7 day brosplit
as lyle mcdonald once said, "everyday is kidney day"

recovery is more than a localized process, there is a systemic component as well and all your muscles use the same systems in that way

higher frequency isn't always better - if the goal is not skill acquisition, only size acquisition, then some high volume overloading sessions must be done, and these cannot be done many times a week

there's a reason you see most BBers do moderate frequency, where PLers training under Dietmar do some 6x a week frequency (Sheiko athletes also bench 4-5x a week, WLers doing bulgarian method, etc)

it'd make more sense to do PPLxFullBodyxx

or PPxPPxx where push includes squat and pull includes deadlift.

else you're simply resting too long between muscles

i actually haven't seen a single meta study that speaks against high frequency, regardless of athletic goals

size is just a matter of overall volume, "burning out" your muscles in a 200 rep bicep session is mostly a meme

I'm currently tossing up between
Phrak's greyskull (pic related) and Sean's 5x5 newbie-fitness.blogspot.com.au/2007/01/stripped-5x5.html

there was a study by Hatfield that talked about training frequencies for different muscle groups, the big idea was that different muscle groups accumulate and recover from fatigue at different rates

anyway, as far as the real world goes, there is probably a reason why bodybuilding routines usually go with 2-3x a week frequency and contain lots of volume in single burn-out sessions, instead of doing loads of triples and doubles like Sheiko or something

I got a lot more size gains out of BBing routines after I had already run higher frequency and slightly higher volume PL programming - the different training styles have evolved into what they are for a reason

here's something by israetel on this

/kikebook/RenaissancePeriodization/posts/957971214220069

I did the "normal" greyskull LP for like 3 months before going to PPL. Just pick one you like and grind out the strength.

i've come to realize that GSLP is a meme. Sure that AMRAP set helps, but its benefits are hugely exaggerated. Most intelligent programs use AMRAP not as a driver of progress, but as a way to either check your current strength levels, or determine how much you should increase the next week/cycle/whatever.

Perfect examples of this is 5/3/1 (check strength levels) and Nuckols (determine weight for next week).

GSLP has AMRAP for no apparent reason it seems. If you wanted more volume during a deload, because that's the main argument, you'd be better off just adding an extra set of fives.

You weren't eating enough and the stuff you were eating was full of fat. You probably have shit genetics that make you prone to weight gain. Clean bulk on chicken brocolli brown rice & switch to a GOOD PPL program. Coolcicadas PPL is one I recommend. Take creatine, BCAAS for recovery, and continue getting your 1g of protein per pound of body weight. Also don't neglect your carbs get a lot of those in per day.

Phrak's GSLP with 2 high rep isolations end of each workout. You can do it every other day if your sleep and diet is on point.

what's with all the good advice on Veeky Forums this morning

what is happening

>stuff you were eating was full of fat
i thought dietary fat =/= body fat?

Well yeah that's why GSLP has am(q)rap sets... if you can do 10 reps on your last set you can increase the load.

And when you deload AMRAP allows to set new rep maxes and makes deloading less 'scary'

It's not really about the volume. It's about allowing newbies to push themselves rather then sticking to an arbitary number.

But what is best about GSLP is 2x squats, 1x deadlift and also Phrak's has rows and chin ups which are important movements.

Basically beginner routines are basically the same, provided you are doing atleast 3 big compounds every other day at a fairy high (relative!!!) Weight you are good.

i'm not that guy, but i'm gonna build on what he said about GSLP

GSLP uses the AMRAP sets as a progress gauge, this is true

however, that extra little bit of volume/work gained from doing the AMRAP isn't really that significant - however, the fatigue you incur from pushing a set that hard is significant, especially in the framework of an aggressive linear progression program

that little bit of fatigue you got from doing 2x5, 1xAMRAP could cost you an increase on your squat the next session for no real benefit because the volume change wasn't that high

really all novice programs are only going to last as long as they're going to last, trying to extend aggressive low volume progression with meme AMRAPs is not a good plan - just run out LP, and then switch to a proper periodized intermediate routine

In my experience AMRAP doesn't last that long... quite quickly you end up only being able to do 3x5 anyway. It only really comes into it's own when you deload.

People are different but I did not experience the fatigue you are describing - and there are 3 full days between squat days.

there is really only 1 day between lower back heavy exercises

and you would not have "felt" the fatigue as in tiredness or something, it would have just manifested as a slight performance decrease

and the deloads on GSLP don't really make too much sense either - deload, then build up with almost the exact same amount of volume?

why not deload, add a couple sets and then strip them away as you get to your old sticking point? basic linear periodization, works well

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