So Veeky Forums, why aren't you vegan yet?

I, personally have made up my mind that I will become vegan.

I honeslty dont care about the "muh ethics" argument. Because for me, ethics is subjective.

The thing is, you dont need meat and dairy, and it a FACT. And another FACT is that meat and dairy industry is the most damaging and toxic industry out there.

It would be ignorant as a human being to not react based on those 2 facts alone.

I won't stop eating meat because I enjoy devouring weaker creatures than me, such as cows, chickens, fish, women, and pigs.

>So Veeky Forums, why aren't you vegan yet?
Because it's pseudoscientific bullshit
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>Why Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Aren't Healthy
The video should be entitled why I'm so retarded I believe even more pseudoscience
>anabolicmen.com/fats-and-testosterone/
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
>breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
>saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>deniseminger.com/the-china-study/

Because I'm going to warm up some sausages filled with cheese.

If I stopped eating meat because some people mistreat animals I might as well cut off my dick becasue rape exists.

Lets agree that we dont give a fuck about animals. Lets agree that its about "natural selection", but what about environment? You dont believe that meat and dairy industry are most damaging industries for the environment despite all the research and facts?You dont believe that these industries are number 1 factor that contributes to climate change? If you do believe and u dont take action about that despite actually knowing that you do not need to eat meat and dairy to survive or build muscle (youtube.com/user/clarence0), i consider a human waste that should be killed on spot.

>Not growing your own meat in tube inside your expensive laboratory

What now moralfaging vegans?

>dude climate change lmao

i'll be dead before then. i don't give a f*ck.

it's unrealistic and hypocritical to think individuals changing consumption habits will decisively alter the production, especially given that consumption is dramatically increasing. if you want to actually do something you have to go to the source, work on new means or lobby to change policies. doing literally nothing is just not eating it

Im trying to lower my meat & dairy consumption for several reasons, but literally see no reason to cut them out completely

what vegan shit can I add to oatmeal to increase the calories? so far I use two servings of oats, one serving of ground flax seed, one serving of peanut butter, a banana, and roughly a cup of soy milk. it comes out to about 900 calories.

more oats

Why don't you die right now so in the future your children won't have to deal the with the problems u caused u fucking retard

it's easier to preach to the people than the industry tho, so you'll always have some clowns trying to make people feel guilty about the fuckups of the industry, claiming that it's their fault because they're the society and they just happen to exist. Of course if they went to some plant and protested there, screaming "quit your jobs! you're hurting nature!" they'd get either laughed at or beaten up.

make me

how could I have been so blind

If you dont eat the meat, it means you are not buying it, which means u are not supporting the industry. More vegans - less support to the industry. Less support means that meat prices go up, which then means that less people are willing to buy meat until the industry just dies.

I'd rather live being naive and unrealistic than being guilty about destroying the environment every god damn day, because i just want to eat something I don't actually need.

Not him, but you can't really preach to the industry at all. It's like screaming at a hammer, because you hit your finger. Only thing you can do to influence industry is pass the law that will restrict it in some way.

Congrats, now you have clean enviroment with milions of people that lost the jobs because of fall of the meat industry.

It is peoples fault that the environment is getting destroyed. The industry lives off people. If you buy meat, that means u are supporting the industry. The industry LIVES on because of YOUR support. That means, you should feel quilty.

And btw, power plants are not nearly as damaging as meat and dairy industry to the environment.

>but what about environment?
wow really? do you own a car or a motorcycle ? or if you don't do you take the bus/train/taxi ? farming, growing and gathering grains and vegetables of all sorts is associated with something that is causing environmental damage.
Are you even aware of how much damage a single combine truck can cause so they can harvest crops?!
Nitrogen based fertilizer for crops, deforestation , all sorts of chemicals and food additives used on plants etc etc

You should take some time to make an actual research instead of following a fad some youtuber is promoting. you should reconsider of who is the true human waste ..

Because my hatred of preachy morally righteous fad dieting vegans is rivalled only by my love of eating animal flesh.

I would rather get bowel cancer and die then be one of you.

Make some plant based food factories and hire them, problem solved.

I don't buy industrially processed meat. I support local farmers and butchers. So fuck you, mate.

>plant based food factories

they're called farms you stupid nu-male

>local farms

more land usage, more waste. factory farms exist because they're more efficient.

>problem solved
Yeah, why didn't Detroit thought of such cunning plan when car industry fell.

But you do realize that +70% of all the farms exist to feed the animals that we eat. I bet that you understand trophic levels, yes?

It's not like we have to get rid of everything that is causing pollution. Removing meat industries is far more easy and practical.

I find "why arent you vegan yet" insulting.

As its been explained to me you are "born vegan". Its pretty much exactly like homosexuality

"no"

>factory farms exist because they're more efficient.
In feeding big cities, yeah. That's not where I live.

Yes that's where the food comes from, but we need factories to prepare and pack them dumbass

>you are "born vegan"
which is why you suck on the teats of the next tree.

Well, veganism is pretty gay.

>Removing meat industries is far more easy and practical.

Lol, no.

Because you're so tough when you support torture and killing of other animals, don't give a fuck about environment and stuff

And i know that you care about looking tough, that's why you probably started going to the gym you insecure little bastard

It's already happening, people are starting to eat more plant-based because its fucking 2017

No, veganism is gay, because half of vegans are judgemental smug cunts who thinks they have moral high ground, while most meat eaters are regular citizens.

I won't argue that. I assumed from the thread we're talking about violent revolution. Not slow, gradual change.

peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/meat-environment/

..1 percent or more of global greenhouse-gas emissions are caused by animal agriculture...

Water

..Water Use

It takes an enormous amount of water to grow crops for animals to eat, clean filthy factory farms, and give animals water to drink. A single cow used for milk can drink up to 50 gallons of water per day—or twice that amount in hot weather—and it takes 683 gallons of water to produce just 1 gallon of milk. It takes more than 2,400 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of beef, while producing 1 pound of tofu only requires 244 gallons of water. By going vegan, one person can save approximately 219,000 gallons of water a year...

etc.

+ oil is going to end one day, meat is not, we can grow animals and kill them as much as we want until we all eat ourselves to death

Vegans you see on anonymous internet forums don't represent all vegans. Literally +50% of the people on forums are assholes and release their anger on others.

Go out sometimes, i have never seen a vegan irl starting a debate by him/herself.
>Inb4 some random youtube video

51 percent*

Good thing I steal all my meat

Why are you assuming I base my opinion on anonymous forums?
I based it on my expirience and although I don't know tons of vegans, about more or less half that I met were jugemental smug cunts.

Oh and if that makes you happy, if think veganism didn't make them that way. They seem like that from the start.

Well im sorry about that, bad luck maybe. If someone is an idiot, it's not because of veganism, its because of that person. Just like it doesn't mean all bodybuilders are assholes if some of them are. Veganism as itself is only about doing good to the planet and animals.

And it's not like they don't have a point if they disagree with your diet. You agree that its okay to torture animals from the day they are born. You realize that you don't seem like such a good person from that point of view?

>You agree that its okay to torture animals from the day they are born.

First of all that's insulting. No one is in favour of torturing animals. I can agree on enabling because of ignorance/lack of care.
Second, how do you know all animals are tortured? What if I buy meat from local farmer who treats them good and puts them to sleep before slaughter? Or local hunter that just shoots wild animal?

Local farms are even worse for the environment. Some people just think that it's unnecessary to slaughter animals, because we can get all the nutrition we need without doing so. I agree that years and years back we didn't have that advantage, but times are different now.

I don't understand why you would want to take a life of a wild animal for no reason (wild animals eat other animals, because its their only option for survival).

Most people just enjoy the taste of meat or cba to do research about plant based nutrition. And that's why we torture and kill animals, or pollute earth even more.

Being a vegan doesn't make you a good person, but it does make you a better person. Just like being a meat eater doesn't make you a bad person, but it makes you worse.

Gotta keep that hate up.

Imagine a soldier who gets only fruit and veggies to eat. He'll be all like "What? Put that rifle away from me, I don't wanna kill people".
There's no place in this crazy world for such thinking.

To end this post with something positive, I gotta say I felt really darn good when I went vegan (basically frugivore) for about 3 weeks.
Fat just melted away and I was in a really peaceful state of mind.

I will treat it like fasting in the future. Going full vegan for a week or two every now and then sure can't hurt.
No "lifestyle" should be taken to the extreme, a well organism is a balanced one.

>humanity finally turns around , we adopt the plant based diet.
>meat and dairy industries have fallen, meat agriculture no longer harms the environment
>now we destroy more land,natural habitat of many other creatures of this plant, peak in deforestation so we can have land for more plant based foods.
>food additives , chemicals,pesticides,fertilizers through the roof to support our new dietary choices.
>environment suffers once again
>human population become b12 deficient, hormonal imbalances due to insufficient saturated fats and cholesterol.
>more chemicals and genetic modification so we can produce enough plant based foods all year round.
>w-we made it

creatures of this planet*

because i'm poor and don't have the money to pay for overpriced food

>meat and dairy industries have fallen
>now we destroy more land

Haaaaaaaa

>more chemicals and genetic modification so we can produce enough plant based foods all year round.

I don't know how you think farming works but we already naturally have crops that we grow seasonally or year round and can be stored for long periods of time.

You know why that entire argument is worthless, right? With the exception of certain areas where extensive grazing is more efficient than agriculture, it takes waaaaay more resources (and thus arable land) to produce one kg of meat than it takes to produce 1kg of [random high-starch plant people can eat]. When matter is converted, energy is lost.

>hormone imbalances due to insufficient saturated fats and cholesterol

more like a major drop in heart disease deaths

>Local farms are even worse for the environment. Some people just think that it's unnecessary to slaughter animals, because we can get all the nutrition we need without doing so. I agree that years and years back we didn't have that advantage, but times are different now.
But they don't torture animals which was my point. Pollution is another thing.
>
I don't understand why you would want to take a life of a wild animal for no reason (wild animals eat other animals, because its their only option for survival).
Because we aren't some outside force, we are part of the enviroment. In this instance a predator. Also it's not like enviroment is at total equlibrium at all times. Sometimes there's more prey then predators, so hunter come in to regulate it. It's not like they run around woods killing everything they see. At least not in my country.
>Most people just enjoy the taste of meat or cba to do research about plant based nutrition. And that's why we torture and kill animals, or pollute earth even more.

Kill sure, but torture? How torture improve taste? Again you're assuming every meat producer is torturing animals which sin't true.

>
Being a vegan doesn't make you a good person, but it does make you a better person. Just like being a meat eater doesn't make you a bad person, but it makes you worse.

And that's why I don't like vegans. It doesn't make you better or worse. It just means you have different eating habits that might in some way affect industry in small degree. It's like giving 2$ to some foundation and thinking you repaired the world and rubbing it in the face of everyone around.

>what is b12 supplementation
>growing plants needs more land than growing animals and eating them

you cannot sustain billions of people with naturally grown crops...that is why gmo foods exist. it costs less, you produce more and you produce everything year round. Also there is a lot of harvest being lost due to weather conditions,insects, birds and other animals which is inevitable in most cases. What is your master plan to sustain this overpopulated planet without altering genetically, without harming the environment , natural habitat, animals, people ?
See the main problem is not meat agriculture or consumption of meat. The main problem is people and overpopulation. Being a vegan/vegetarian won't solve nothing is just a dietary choice.

Plants are pretty gay dood

What about our current cereal grains, legumes, and starches give you the impression that we wouldn't have access to them year round without further scientific intervention? In what period do vegetables not grow, nevermind that we can and do package, freeze, and can them?

Vegans are deficit in b12:

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329

Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:

m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/6/1032.full

Vegans are deficient in omega threes:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323085

Vegans are deficit in carnitine:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2756917
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928

Vegans are deficient in taurine:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3354491

Vegans are deficient in iodine:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354

Vegans are deficient in Coenzyme Q10:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873950

Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11269606

Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19103647
m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2346.full

Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35465
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/

Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127.abstract
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772
m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49

Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

>starts up with the same list of bullshit that gets debunked in every thread

social reasons. i dont want to be grouped in with a bunch of liberal feminist retards

Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4067152
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8005079

Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874810/pdf/canmedaj01383-0052.pdf

"There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788369

Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137939/

"Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/

These next five are case studies:

Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25076673

Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8442642

Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244

Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3948463

"We report the case of a 7 month-old girl that presented with acute anemia, generalized muscular hypotonia and failure to thrive. Laboratory evaluation revealed cobalamin deficiency, due to a vegan diet of the mother."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18293883

consider that most plants don't tolerate very well low temperatures. some vegetables don't grow at all during winter time.if you interfere with how nature works you raise other problems . if you cant grow you cannot package,freeze or can. again take in consideration huge losses due to weather or insects or whatever. but either way there will be problems similar to those we have with meat agriculture.this mass production of everything and mass consumerism is taking its toll to this planet. you want to control the damage then control the population.

>debunked
All you vegans do is say that I'm wrong, stick your fingers in your ears and say "LALALALALA" then declare victory. Yeah that's the definition of debunking lol

like what you did in this thread?

Yes exactly, you refuse to accept the results of the studies and refuse to post evidence backing up your claims.

>more like a major drop in heart disease deaths

Because I'm not an autistic retard who's looking forward to his 90s at 21

>this level of projection

Coconut oil is 60% saturated fat.

Avocado is 15% saturated fat.

This fucking retard does not know saturated fat is in plants

keto masterrace. You do your sugar, bro, it'll give you Alzheimer's and you deserve it.

Bitch, please. Processed vegan food, with all the production steps, packaging, and obesogenic effects is a lot worse for the environment than meat. Coca cola and cupcakes are vegan, at what cost?

Dude, it peak climate change hits it will be because carb-fed fat fucks who voted Trump. And when that happens and society breaks down, and we run out of animals? Fat scooty puff cunts provide a lot of meat.

every vegan/vegitarian in this thread is beta af.
>not wanting to juice and die looking like a freaky cunt
KYS

i've tried it for 3 weeks.
more gas
but gas smells less horrendous

i'm gonna go meaty again this weekend, i got some ostrich steak in the freezer thats winking at me

If you wan't to live healthy and long life than this.

>a world without the consumption of animal products

Good luck growing crops without manure, blood, and bone.

I would like to go semi-vegan. I still want to eat fish, eggs, and drink milk.

> eat yourself to death because of meat and dairy

Are vegans immortals now?

I'll take "shit vegans believe" for $1000, Alex...

>High LDL's cause endolethlial cell damage
no they dont. this isn't true. and it is right. artherosclerorsis is reversible until focal calcification takes place, which is caused by other factors and has nothing to do with LDL. this is why you don't get your information from Google searches and think it replaces an actual education.

The cause of arteriosclerosis is first and foremost endolethium damage which has nothing to do with LDL's. After the subendothelial connective tissue is damaged, the LDL's may deposit. however, these lipid plaques are removable simply by increasing HDL concentration and increased cardiovascular activity. CAD is caused by a CALCIFIED plaque reaching the heart blood vessels which is a problem.

Because I'm not a faggot.

Because I'm not gullible

>Just follow clarence
This shut up the meat cucks pretty quickly

>BUT BUT BUT HE USES ROIDS
>BUT BUT BUT HE GOT GAINS BEFORE HE WENT VEGAN!

Yes exactly, he wouldn't be as strong as he is now without eating meat and using steroids.

I have a vegan friend and all she does is eat pizza.

>Vegans are deficit in b12:
so take b12
>High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:
so take vitamin d
>Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:
see above and take calcium
>memory
take creatine
>omega threes
take fish oil pills
>carnitine
take that too

>everything else

you ever heard of a multivitamin you fucking N I G G E R

>vegan diets are healtier as long as you take all these pills!