Strength = aesthetics

...

it's just honestly a disgusting picture. that blank expression, the white on white on white background. the out of focusness. god. fucking kill me, stop posting it.

>dem T rex legs

lmao

Also guarantee he has a pump in that pic

>30 seconds in
>*BRRAAAAAAAAAPPPPP*

So this... is the power... of Starting Strength.

I think his legs are too big and it throws off his silhouette into giving a feminine look.
I know some may think different, but legs that big don't look good.

In my opinion he looks pretty decent except for that chest gap.

his legs are disproportionate and his back needs work

mirin
overall well-balanced and composed physique, not like the curlbro OP likely is

PS: OP you're a fag

80% of physiques in the CBT are superior to his lmao

And they probably don't risk snapping their backs everytime they go to the gym like he does

How the fuck does one get so disproportionate? I mean, at some point you have to look at the mirror and say "maybe I should stop squatting 5 days a week".

>"maybe I should stop squatting 5 days a week".

Not an option

He's a powerlifter my dude. I don't think he cares.

he's a powerlifter. powerlifters compete in squat, deadlift and bench.

squat and deadlift require strong legs and bench doesn't really build a good looking chest like squat does legs so that's why.

What will build a good chest?

i'm gay and I'd kill to look like that

huge legs+butt, broad torso, lean but not too lean

incline db chest press, incline db flys, weighted dips

genes

Why incline and not parallel bench?

>low volume squats give you strong legs like high volume leg exercises give you big legs

so why are his legs huge then?`maybe not in this pic, but look at other ones like . goes against your own logic

>id rather be big as fuck and bench 2pl8 than be a twink shit that can bench 275

that guy is 154 lbs. look at his arms, he's fairly big. 99% of people wouldn't bench his numbers regardless if they trained for strength or not. lets get real here

>I train for strength so my lack of aesthetics would just prove my point desu
bf%?

implying he will ever be aesthetic with those chest genetics

why is a db chest press better than a barbell bench press or an incline barbell bench press? also is a db chest press different than a dumbbell bench

most db exercises are better for straight muscle building, because they provide a greater ROM, and more stabilizers, and generally doesn't cause any imbalances that a barbell can

i thought everyone knew this

however, they are very hard to overload in small increments, which makes any sort of progression obnoxious. they are very impractical in certain exercises, like a heavy deadlift, or a heavy squat.

this means they are best used as accessories done for higher reps to build muscle, not to build strength

How is this possible? I understand he has excellent form and trains solely for strength, but I still can't wrap my mind around it

perfect internal leverages
perfect neurological adaptations for lifting heavy weight

he's a one in a few million genetic freak at benching, don't expect to replicate what he has done

Everyone's genetics are different, some people grow in different ways from the exact same routine.

It does not matter what you do as long as everything is sufficiently worked, your body will grow how it grows there is not a lot you can do about it. That is why of you have shit genetics you will never look "good".

>lmao
Yeah, LMAO. That was very funny. Comedic genius, that user

depends on your build

bench is amazing for chest/tri/delts for me (extremely long arms)

squats do fuck all for my legs (esp quads) and all I do is highbar

If he fucked up, would those spotters be able to do anything at all
Probably can't diddle that weight

he has also trained for 15+ years or something

just look at these pecs mang:
instagram.com/p/BGUNWa9qjFm/?taken-by=ufpwrlifter

training for strength or hypertrophy is irrelevant. it's 2017. ya'll know this.

>implying that CBT aren't giant lies

Who's lying in CBT?

it's not like he will suddenly lose all strength and just drop the bar on his chest.

spotters don't have to lift the entire weight. just being able to lift less than 100 lbs is enough for him to finish the rep.

FFS

Look, looking good is a mix of having alot of muscle, being lean and having good genetics.

Strength training is a great way to gain muscle, obviously if you are gaining muscle you need to bulk and so you are going to have more fat.

Candito=A good amount of muscle whilst not being lean or having good genetics (in terms of looking good)

If you follow a bro split you ain't gonna gain any more muscle then on something like 5/3/1.

Just lift and then get lean.

>If you follow a bro split you ain't gonna gain any more muscle then on something like 5/3/1.
that's just not true, though

bro splits usually have a lot more volume in a lower intensity range, which is better for gaining muscle

5/3/1 has an AMRAP set at a decently high percentage 1rm, then joker sets at an even higher percentage, then some back off and accessory work

you will never be able to use as much volume with this approach as you would have had you just worked at 70% 1rm for many sets, and hypertrophy is mainly a function of training volume

that being said bro splits suck, 2x a week frequency and high volume at ~70% will make you blow up

I've run SS, TM, 5/3/1, Sheiko, and bodybuilding upper/lower - guess which one gave me the most size gains? the routine optimized for size gains

but this is not common sense yet. it's only in the last few years studies (more importantly meta studies) have proven that strength and hypertrophy training is usually the same thing for a natural lifter.

people are still stuck in
"training for hypertrophy vs training for strength" mentality
"low reps for strength, high reps for muscle" mentality

the only thing that should differ between say a powerlifter and a bodybuilder is exercise selection, not the fucking rep schemes that you do

a powerlifter will do tons of compound variations that are as specific as possible to the big 3, to improve their total
bodybuilders will use the time instead to work on exercises that doesn't have a big carryover to the big 3, to improve their looks

if natty, both will go heavy, both will go for volume, both will try and increase weight using various progression protocols, both will emphasize compounds over accessories, both will look ugly at a high bf%, both will look good at a lower bf% (bodybuilders will look a tiny bit better because they spent all that time working on small muscles to improve proportions etc)

Progressive overload is far more important than getting sufficient volume.

higher rep ranges are a more efficient way to get in a lot of volume at lower %1rm

strengtheory.com/powerlifters-should-train-more-like-bodybuilders/

wanna do heavy 7x3, or 3x10 for the same hypertrophy effect? One took over an hour, one took a few minutes

people who did 3x10 could have done even more, and gotten even more size gains

there is a reason the differences between strength and size oriented routines exist

train according to your goals

So full body at 70% 3 times a week would be better than a 5 day splits.

the two are not mutually exclusive, progressively overloading (adding weight to the bar or doing more reps) with higher volume = more gains

anything with 1x a week frequency for a muscle is hot garbage

yes, 70% 3x a week would work well

overall volume doesn't matter that much. it's the number of hard sets that matter, regardless of the rep scheme. i usually call this practical volume. it's the main driver of hypertrophy

so we have definitions like this:

volume: sets x reps
volume load: sets x reps x load
practical volume: # of hard sets (RPE7+)

joker sets in 5/3/1 adds a lot of practical volume, but not a lot of volume.
AMRAPs in 5/3/1 adds some volume, but barely any practical volume

in fact, you could run 5/3/1 just as fine without the AMRAP sets, they don't contribute much to the bigger picture, compared to a few sets jokers and FSL's.

SS is low volume, high volume load, low practical volume
5/3/1 can be everything since it's so customizable, usally pretty low volume, high volume load, high practical volume
Sheiko is moderate to high volume, moderate volume load, high practical volume
Boybuilder routines - high volume, low to moderate volume load, high practical volume

a very easy way to prove this is to go into the gym, and do 25x1, and then a few days later go in and do 5x5, then tell me which is harder.

further reading: strengtheory.com/the-new-approach-to-training-volume/

well garbage for most people anyway, when you're on gear it doesn't matter

also when you are sufficiently advanced and need a silly amount of volume for a growth response lower frequency might actually work better (purely empirical, no studies done on this but mike israetel has found this trend)

i was already operating under greg nuckol's definition of volume as # of hard sets when I made that post

you aren't telling me anything new user

you can do a greater number of hard sets at lower percentages of your 1rm

strengtheory.com/powerlifters-should-train-more-like-bodybuilders/

aforementioned 7x3 vs 3x10 study, the results are very clear

Read my other post 7x3 is more practical volume than 3x10. It's harder to finish, will stress your CNS & your joints more.

7x3 will probably cause more hypertrophy and strength gains, but like you said, it will take over an hour to complete and isn't practical to do at all.

>there is a reason the differences between strength and size oriented routines exist
Most size oriented routines that's popular are created by roiders, for roiders
Most strength oriented routines that's popular are created by coaches, for everyone

What reason is there for 6 day week PPL then if you can just do the same in 3 days with more frequency?

What about high weight sets followed by multiple accessory work? Im currently running Candito 6 week, and it hits everything multiple times a week starts with 8-12 reps and tapers down with lots of accessory work.

you seem to just be seeing what you want to see without actually reading Greg's articles

"If you go the first route, you’ll need to set up your training similar to Eastern bloc (i.e. Sheiko-style) or Norwegian lifters: Drop your average intensity. To tolerate the necessary training volume, you’ll need to do your sets of 1-5 with lighter loads, usually in the 70-80% range, with very few lifts at 85% or above. Furthermore, the sets will need to be fairly easy, leaving at least 2-3 reps in the tank each set. If you try to handle the volume necessary to maximize hypertrophy while still focusing on lifting 85-90%+, or within a rep of failure, you increase your risk of injury and burnout.

I’d recommend the second route for most people. Why? It’s simply a much more efficient way of reaching the same end point.

A recent study by Brad Schoenfeld illustrated this point beautifully. Two groups of lifters either did 3×10 or 7×3 with the heaviest loads they could lift. At the end of 8 weeks, the group doing sets of 3 gained more strength, but both groups gained the same amount of muscle. Ironically, a lot of strength athletes jumped all over this study, saying, “See, I can get swole doing my heavy triples!” without noticing two major caveats: The 3×10 workout only took 17 minutes, whereas the 7×3 workout took 70, and the subjects in the 3×10 group all wanted to train more, whereas the subjects in the 7×3 group were wrecked by the end of the study.

The superior gains in strength in the 7×3 group don’t particularly phase me either. Of course they’d test better at the end of the study: They were lifting loads closer to max, so they’d be more prepared for hitting a max single. I would almost guarantee if both groups were put on the same 4-6 week peaking protocol after the 8 weeks of different training, those strength differences would largely vanish as the 3×10 group had a chance to improve confidence and efficiency with heavier loads."

there is no reason since 6 day PPL is a garbage roid program. just think about it for one second PLEASE. use your brain.

a program that's
* super high in volume
* high in intensity
* high in frequency
* high in accessories
* usually linear progression
* low in rest days

you can't really handle everything cranked up to high with almost zero rest days for months on end, or everyone would be doing it.

most intelligent programs cuts down on 1-3 of these variables to make the program work. it's not intelligent to just do everything as much as possible all the time.

now if you used sound principles like linear periodization, DUP and such, while maybe cutting it down to 4 days using a PPLxFBxx split, it could be a very good program. but let's be real, no one does that.

I always thought it was a stupid program but it is always spammed here, 6 days a week seems over kill to me when you can make plenty progress with half that time.

6x PPL should be reserved for when you need so much volume per muscle group to progress that doing it inside of fewer sessions is not practical

it will take a while to get to that point, though

high weight sets followed by multiple accessory sets work just fine, they aren't specialized toward hypertrophy (because those heavy sets take a lot out of you that you could be using for more sets in the 65-75% range)

candito's program is some nightmarish shit anyway

PPL is not a program, it's a method of arranging your training

you could write a PPL that isn't all of those things, and is more reasonable in volume, intensity, and progression

2x a week frequency for most bodyparts is not super high

however, everyday is kidney day, you still get a lot more systemic stress from 6x a weeks and i think most people need a while to work up to that type of frequency

also you run into problems with shoulder girdle overuse, definitely has drawbacks

you will do just fine with an upper lower

Don't fall for the strength meme. I can even 1/2/3/4 and look better than half the shits who lift big weights

Volume > everything

I agree with everything you're saying, and what Greg is saying.

I never made a point against 3x10, I just said that more sets are better if you just compare them back to back.

I also said it's not practical to train like that, because like you said, and I said, and Nuckols said, it takes far too long. It's not good for your joints. It's not good for your recovery. It's probably not good for your form either.

This is why good, intelligent programs include both styles of training. Higher reps set to squeeze in more volume without completely wrecking your CNS. Higher loads to squeeze in more strength gains.

If you ONLY cared about size, it would still make sense to train for strength every now and then (in a linear periodiziation fashion or whatever) because it would mean more size gains in the future.

The best is a mix, just like with everything in life. Nothing is ever black and white.

oh ok i thought you were disagreeing in some weird convoluted way

but i still think if you train for size alone there's no reason to dip below 6-8 reps 90% of the time

I think it was Israetel who said you should very occasionally do some heavier work even if the goal is purely size, seems to use some different signaling pathways or something

>PPL is not a program, it's a method of arranging your training
sure, but in the real world most peoples ppl always look the same
1-2 heavy compound movement for a few sets of low to medium reps
4-6 accessories for medium to high reps

6 days a week with no specific progression plan or deload plan

>you could write a PPL that isn't all of those things,

yes, that's what I said
>now if you used sound principles like linear periodization, DUP and such, while maybe cutting it down to 4 days using a PPLxFBxx split, it could be a very good program. but let's be real, no one does that.

>2x a week frequency for most bodyparts is not super high
that's why i wrote high on freq but super high on volume

Is this a meme?

Please tell me this is a joke

Thats bullshit

Basically
>when you lift weights or tense your muscle you go through a chain of muscle fibers, starting with slow twitch ones for lighter weight and fast twitch muscle fibers when the weight gets heavier and heavier, these fibers are on a spectrum they are not binary, so you're activating all at the same time, like up a ladder from slow twitch to faster and faster twitch the more stress the muscle is under, a bit like the love tester from the simpsons.
>7x3 will be using heavier weight with similar volume
>heavier weight will cause you to use a 'higher' chain (more) fast twitch muscle fibers
>using 3x10 is using a lower weight and therefore using less fast twitch muscle fibers
>fast twitch muscle fibers when put under stress grow back much thicker than slow twitch muscle fibers and cause much more hypertrophy
>so using 7x3 you're inducing more hypertrophy
>using 7x3 you're making yourself stronger because you're adapting motor patterns to allow yourself to use heavier weight and induce even more fast twitch fibers are therefore more hypertrophy
>using 7x3 with higher weight is fatiguing your CNS more and therefore increasing your workload if it is adapting properly and you're getting enough rest/food
>this in turn will allow you to gain more hypertrophy
>7x3 is using less reps per set and is therefore giving you less chance of being injured and developing tendonitis
>this will in turn allow you to move more weight in the long run resulting in even more hypertrophy
>7x3 is also strengthening your joints more due to them being put under a heavier load and adapting, lessening your chance of injury even further
>only upside 3x10 has is increased time under tension which will slightly increase your endurance and reduce lactic acid buildup when doing longer sets.

Lmaoooooo

is this satire?

nice broscience

actual, real life science says otherwise though

>fast vs slow twitch muscle fibers used for different intensity ranges

oh lord we've got a full blown RETARD on our hands

>fast vs slow twitch muscle fibers used for different intensity ranges
try using reading comprehension mate

>"heavier weight will cause you to use a 'higher' chain (more) fast twitch muscle fibers"

work on not being a fucking idiot

fuck you faggot never post here again or i'll fuck you up

>these fibers are on a spectrum they are not binary, so you're activating all at the same time, like up a ladder from slow twitch to faster

again, reading comprehension

Also to add to the study in used in is garbage and has almost no detail in control factors or sample size. it can be found here
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538
A much better study with control factors put in to place with much more detail can be found here.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4562558/
This shows that Lean body mass for people using higher intensity is higher at the end of the study and of the people using the volume method only 60% of them saw any hypertrophy at all.

genetics > all

I'm new and a bit confused. Sticky says to follow Starting Strength regardless of objetives. Is it now not advisable for aethestics?

Man you have so much to learn.
But you can cut all the bullshit and watch 3dmj on youtube.
Search for Eric Helms Muscle and Strength pyramid.

It has everything you need to know and don't listen to Veeky Forums about anything related to training or you'll end up program hopping and skipping your wheels

Thanks, I'll see into it. My goals are pretty modest desu, most of the CBT bodies are more than enough for me

is there someone else in the room.

I'm a fucking girl and my traps are bigger than your,

>It has everything you need to know and don't listen to Veeky Forums about anything related to training or you'll end up program hopping and skipping your wheels
Most of the exercise scientists like Eric Helms and Greg Cuckols are full of shit. The Cuckols one is the special one. He reads abstracts from studies and draws conclusion solely from that. That is the 'science driven' training meme many fit users fell for.

My point is: keep it simple. You don't need to know what an AMRAPs and percentages are. You need to NOT miss a training day ever and increase the weight for 5lb every time for the first 6 months. To achieve that you need to eat and sleep. Weigh in every morning without clothes, calculate the average for a week, and it should increase for 1lb per week. If the weight is not increasing you're not eating enough. Do a routine similiar to SS with added some easy isolation work. You can do 4x8-12 for arms for example.

DO NOT skip the training day, eat, get creatine, sleep, increase the weight. Percentages and other nonsense are only a giant distraction from what you ought to do.

>You don't need to know what an AMRAPs and percentages are.
Yes you do lol. How are you going to regulate your training?

And I never mentioned Nuckols.

UUh "regulate". What a buzzy word. If you recover properly you will be able to increase weight on the bar. If you fail to increase weight on the bar under assumption you are recovering there is a thing called deload. Only "regulation" you need to know.

lmao at that blackie quarter-repping 2pl8 next to him, while being about 50lb heavier.
This guy is an absolute freak though. Crazy how good he is of the chest at this weight.

This. If you have shitty pec genetics, no amount of >hypertrophy-flys will ever make them great.

> y-yeah I can barely squat 2pl8 b-but at least I have a v-taper!

aestheticsfags are the niggers of lifting

zach wasnt repping 415 he was sqautting 320 5x5
youtu.be/7TB0PpIGcX0
Also, if he actually fucking cut down to 10% bf once he got his numbers instead of being a faggot and stopping lifting he'd be aesthetic.

>Greg Cuckols are full of shit
his programs is one of the more popular done by /plg/ for instance, so either he got very lucky or he's not full of shit

>'science driven' training meme
>>.40192673
>UUh "regulate". What a buzzy word
i don't know why the fitness culture specifically is so opposed to science and reason. it really baffles me. how can you laugh at someone for being science driven? i guess the meathead fitness stereotype really is true.

DEM DARN GOSH SCIENTIST PEOPLES AND DERE DUN GON NUMBERS, JUST LIFF SOME O' DAT DERE HEAVY WEIGHT AND EAT A DUN GON LOT O' DAT DERE FOOD !!!! YEEEEEHAAAW BOY

is really what you sound like

fucking retards like you is what is holding the world back

>2017:
>Training for 'aesthetics'
..so, you're all gay?
Or are you all still in denial about that, and still think you're training to 'get hot club sluts to bang' or somesuch nonsense like that?

Face it: If your primary goal in the gym is 'aesthetics' then you're wasting your time. 'Aesthetics' above and beyond what's normal for a healthy adult male who is not overweight is largely determined genetically, and there's nothing you can do in the gym to fix that.

Plastic surgery? Maybe.

It's like these silly girls and women who are doing over9000 glute exercises because they want a huge ass: What they really want is an 'Hourglass Figure', but they'll never get it without wider hips and tits to match, with a narrow waist -- and 2 out 3 of those things are genetic.

Now, what you should be doing is training for a POWER sport, like boxing or rugby. You'll get the 'aesthetics' as a secondary effect, which is the way it should be. Personally I'd recommend boxing. Aside from strength and real endurance, you'll get a level of personal discipline that is unparalleled in any other sport, plus you'll have the skills to defend yourself if necessary. What do you have to lose?

So forsake this silly pursuit of 'aesthetics'. You'll thank me later.

he stopped lifting?

what the other guys said, + roids

>steroids
LOL how desperate and useless do you have to be to resort to that meme?
>2017: Looking like a circus freak
top kek
my sides, exploding
absolutelydisgusting.jpg

You know who lifts weights to spend some energy, keep themselves in shape, look good, prove their strong to others and themselves, and help in their day to day life and various physical activities? Men.

You know who trains for strength for it's own sake with no money prestige or pussy involved? Shit loads of homosexuals, heavily closeted homosexuals and beta males.

yeah because benching 4 pl8s natty while weighing 150lbs is possible natty.

Boxing is great but get your head off your ass

>strength
Boxers aren't really that strong. Powerful yes, but not strong. And most of the power is stored in lower body anyways
>you'll have the skills to defend yourself if necessary.
Autistic. Just run away if you want to avoid getting stabbed / kicked in the head from back.

>prove (they're) strong to others
I was behind what you're saying right up to that point. An adult man, properly developed emotionally and mentally, doesn't feel the need to 'prove' anything to anyone, he just does what he does and DGAF.

>You know who trains for strength for it's own sake with no money prestige or pussy involved? Shit loads of homosexuals, heavily closeted homosexuals and beta males.
Right. Like the dumb, damaged kids that frequent Veeky Forums, who 'train for aesthetics' as their primary goal.
LOL okay buddy now you're just showing us all how insecure and how much of a try-hard you really are.

>has to 'prove himself to others'
>uses words like 'beta'
You're likely short, skinny, weak, bullied by others your entire life, and overlooked by females you're interested in, or perhaps even openly mocked by them, and you're overcompensating for all the above in a desperate attempt to achieve parity. Sad.

Why do you need to do that anyway? What's the purpose? What are you overcompensating for so desperately?

Unless you're planning on being a competitive powerlifter (which would be OK in my book, at least you're not training for mere 'aesthetics', LOL) why do you need to be massively strong? Even the average, amateur boxer is so much stronger than the average, non-athletic adult male, that there's no comparison.
>run away
Note that I stated you could defend yourself "IF NECESSARY". Doesn't mean you go around starting fights just because you can.

He must have a lot of fun shopping for pants

Strenght is pointless. Tell me what the point of training for strenght is if you dont compete in powerlifting. At least a good looking body makes you feel confident and gets bitches wet. Not to mention that training for strenght also carries infinitely more risk of injury.

Powerlifting/strenght training without competing is for autists

>just run away
And the pussification of men becoming males continues.

>overcompensating

most people here don't even lift or they do ss+gomad and think they're gonna look like bradley martyn.