SS/SL/Noob Gains Thread

Good shit op grats on your success.
As for me, starting stats in pounds on 9/30/16
Squat: 185
OHP: 95
Bench 115
Deadlift 205

Today my working sets are
Squat 245 (deloaded from 290)
OHP 135 (deloaded from 145)
Bench 225 (hit pr today)
Deadlift 275 (deloaded from 355)

Was able to fix my form issues on squat and deadlift thanks to my deload, should hit 3 and 4 plate respectively before i deload again.

Really interested in how this goes for you since I will be in a similar situation soon

I would but the starting strength guid thing said not to mess with the routine. and that you shouldn't overtrain or something.

Honestly feel like I could do a lot more when I'm there though.

Be honest, did you guys actually start with the bar in SL?

OP here, great progress esp in your given time, I gave myself a nasty bout of tendonitis from shitty form (bench), hence why its my weakest lift so don't push it.

I don't think anyone takes Medhi's comment there seriously.

You aren't competing in powerlifting or weightlifting, so you don't really need to push the TM as hard as you can. This lets you be flexible if you feel like you're burning out hard eating at a deficit. But to be honest, I ran the TM for almost 3 years with about half of that time being on a cut and it's possible. Your body adjusts to work if you're consistent.

One thing that can make it easier is splitting up volume day into two days. Benching and Squatting are pretty demanding, splitting up volume sessions can keep you from grinding if you're not eating a lot.

I ran this for almost a year:

Bench Volume Day (Sunday)
-------------------------
Bench Press 5x5
Pendlay Row 3x5
Lying Triceps Extension 3x10
Barbell Curls 3x10
Weighted Chinups 3x10

Squat Volume Day (Mon)
-------------------------
Squat 5x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x5
Power Clean 5x3
Glute Ham Raise 3x10
Reverse Hypers 3x10

Recovery (Wed)
-------------------------
Overhead Press 5x5
Power Snatch 5x2
Kettlebell Rows 3x15
Kettlebell Swings 3x15

Intensity (Fri)
Squat 1x5 (Shoot for PR)
Bench Press (Paused) 2x3 (Shoot for PR)
Deadlift 1x5 (Shoot for PR)

Obviously you don't have to do the same assistance exercises I did. After your heavy lift for the day, just do some related work.

Your opening volume should be about 80% of your 5RM from the novice program. Work your way up. This should carry you many months.

My first year in the TM doing the above I went from a 405 squat to 515, a 265 bench to 325, and a 415 deadlift to 535.

Veeky Forums needs more /threads like these. Don't get me wrong, I laugh and find enjoyment out of the other ones, but this real shit is dying on this board.

This is pretty neat advice, your routine looks solid as well and fairly similar to other TM samples I've seen. Hopefully I'll be able to handle the volume and push for PRs on a cut, but to be real, I'd be totally satisified cutting down and maintaining. Even if I lose a bit of strength, something like this gives me something to consider for Intermediate programming. I saw some modifications where people reduce the volume (so 3x5 volume day lifts) while maintaining intensity, If I find the program as standard too brutal while cutting, a valid modification I suppose?

Either way this is incredibly useful, thanks.

If you want to reduce volume on TM, a better plan is more sets of fewer reps and a slower weight progression. I'd recommend 5x3 (5 sets of triples) instead of 3x5 for this and instead of adding 5 lbs. every week to your progression, add it every other week.

But you should at least try for awhile at 5x5.

I finally hit lmao1pl8 bench 5x5 after starting at 95lb in November. All other lifts progressing except ohp. I was reading some shit about how it's bad for your spine, and I'm definitely arching too much I think. Should I replace it with incline db or bench press?

I may well do, thank you.

I'm interested to see that you shoot for a 5 rep max on deadlift on Intensity day when most programs have you do 90% 1x5 Deadlifts on Monday's volume day, as people supposedly find it difficult to recover from. I'm guessing in your experience this wasn't the case? Also, with most TM programs you rotate the bench and OHP between Vol. day and Wed's recovery day, did you apply the same here? (Sorry if it's a blindingly obvious question). This shit is real helpful.

I have some prior experience but that was 2+years ago. I think 225 might be the max for my bench before a deload.
My mobility was total shit from a office job but i worked on it and it's much better now

> beginner
> modified routine

Why the fuck do people do this

Ripp approved
startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/8177-kethnaab-rippetoe-workout.html

After huff and a puff, its basically fine, for those of us who wanted to add upper body volume.

I compete in powerlifting, so I never cycled the bench and press. I also went for 1x5 sets on deadlifts because you squat, bench, and deadlift very heavy when you compete in powerlifting. Intensity day acclimates your body for this kind of effort.

The TM is just a training methodology: high volume early in the week, high intensity later in the week. You're free to adjust whatever you want. Alternate the press and bench if you want. If you stall at 1x5 sets, switch to 2x3 or 5x1 and progress for awhile. It's very flexible.

This makes a lot of sense, I was leaning towards Volume/Recovery/Intensity as the next step - pushing to progress every other day will fry me in a decifit (or at best, be very inefficient) and after looking into TM some it seems pretty customisable and what I'm looking for. Prior I was planning on just cutting and doing Madcows (the routine is basically given and structured, so its simple for relatively new guys like me) but now I got some to think about over the next few weeks.

It's getting late here so I better shoot. Might check back again if thread is alive in the morning, cheers.

9999999999999

Currently doing my own PPL routine rn. I've only been lifting for 6 months and I've put on about 20 lbs (mostly lean muscle, some fat). Is that a normal amount? Am I not putting on enough?

bump

Despite what the e-statting faggots here will claim, it is not possible in the slightest to gain 20kg/year or per month or whatever bullshit rate they love to claim. If you doubt this just ask for before and after photos of the 'lean gain' someone claims, it's either a shit load of fat or you'll never actually see pictures because it doesn't happen.

As a beginner the average starting 3 month gain is around 3kg of lean muscle mass, if you've put more weight on it's either fat or you're genetically lucky. In the first year realistically expect about 5kg of lean gain, past year 1, as a natty, expect 2-4kg a year.

To get almost 10kg in 6 months you've put on probably half half in fat/lean muscle unless you are one of the lucky genetic freaks who responds really well. Not saying you weight hasn't changed, but probably a bit less lean gains than you think.

Basically past your first 12 months expect to adhere to god tier dieting and amazing worth ethic and consistency to get anything more than 4kg/year, and that will taper as you approach your natty limit. Welcome to natty lifting, it's slow and sad. This is why so many jump on juice or give up lifting after 3 months

quick ref source if you want detail and studies: strongerbyscience.com/realistic-training-goals/

For you and anyone else if you want to get an idea of how big you can get yourself at your natty limit go here:

strongerbyscience.com/your-drug-free-muscle-and-strength-potential-part-2/

Alternatively google FFMI and play around with numbers till your FFMI hits around 23-25.

Before anyone jumps on me about the limitations of FFMI I am aware of them, this isn't a perfect tool but it is a very fast, easy and good predictor of what can be reasonably expected by the majority of the population. Some guys are indeed freaks and may go over 25 natty, it's absolute genetic lottery winners though. For most of us inconsistent diet, sleep, training, stress etc means seeing what we are at about 23 FFMI is a solid guess of what's the best we can get to

I personally feel much more comfortable being told exactly what to do by a proven effective routine created by an expert.
>leg press
That's girly, just do squats

Anyone here with a complicated squat?

Rip makes a comment about folks with long femurs/short torsos in his book but doesnt quite explain all of the baggage that comes along with working on mobility with a wide squat stance. I can squat juuuust below parallel and even then my torso lean is ridiculous. Sitting back just makes me fall over. On the plus side my spinal erectors are like steel now but my squat is still about 50kg behind my deadlift. Is there a way I can emphasize my deadlift to build quad strength while I deload on my squat to work on depth? At the moment, i only do sumo dl to save my low back. Thought of doing bb hack squats, they any good in the long run? Potential injuries?

I'm going on my third week of SS + a few accessories + swimming. Obviously not going for pure strength gains, but trying to improve overall health, fitness ability, and aesthetics. I think I have to go a few more weeks into the program to know how well its working.

Bump

>still a skelly

You're not lean enough the word is skinnyfat

Man, stop doing strength routines expecting to make hypertrophy gains...

Because they wanna stay dyel and disgusting looking

Oh maybe because i like progression and dont want to be stuck lifting the same weights for years on end.

Having no method of progression besides "just burn the muscles out" doesn't allow for enough progress to take place over long periods of time.

OP just eat at maintenance, do TM and do cardio on your off days. You won't lose BF as fast as a deficit but you'll keep your strength and still burn off fat. 15% is pretty easy to achieve.

I can do 3pl8 squats for 5 reps and I am about to hit a 4pl8 max on the deadlift. (can do 3,5pl8 for reps) I ate like a truck during the last four months to achieve this but now I want to cut some fat and train with a little lighter weights for aesthetics. Is this a good idea Veeky Forums, or should I push a little bit further? I'm really tired of this extra fat. My bench and OHP has been stalling for weeks (both 10% below 1/2) and are beyond hope no matter what I do it seems.

bump

I might be retarded, but nobody has ever explained this to me: how long do noobgains last? Is it a time period or a progress point? What if you start lifting and stop? Basically I'm losing weight but need to make gains for my desired job and I want to know how long this gravy train of being able to do both is going to last

Just do highbar squats if you find low bar squats difficult to get in to. I recall a post by Jord (one of Rip's coaches) who posted that there isn't a great deal of different for a non-competitive athlete to do HB.

Stop giving shit advice.

See the posts aimed at the OP, something like a volume/light/intensity routine while cutting will be more useful, if you really feel too fat before going back to makiing linear gains.
"Eating like a truck" isn't particularly great info, towards the end of the routine I was slamming back 3500-4K calories per day, with 1g per lb of BW for protein (assuming you're not fat as fuck, this is generally a safe rule). You shouldn't be stalling if your diet and rest are in check. I'm going to also assume you're doing 3x5 instead of a flat 5x5 by this point.

If you're overweight or a complete noob you can continue make strength gains on a deficit, but it will get harder as you move forward and the more bodyfat you lose. As to how far this will go, is highly individual. OP gives you an idea as to how far linear progression can go, once you've slimmed down up the calories.

Would like to know this aswell. Have long femurs and a short torso. I only do highbar squats though. I've worked damn much on form and mobility the past few weeks, but I still have problems staying upright even with a wide stance. Also I almost touch my calves in the lowest position, but my hips are only slightly below parallel. What do?

>Is it a time period or a progress point?
Good question. I have complete noob lifts due to injury 1.5 years ago and only half assing it since then, but I kept 90% of my gains. Will I get another noob gains or will I just get stronger and stronger till I reach my old lifts without my physique changing?

user. You can make it.
I collapsed in the squat rack doing the bar the first time, and was hitting 3 plate squats with no signs of slowing down when I got to depressed to keep going.

>If you're overweight or a complete noob you can continue make strength gains on a deficit, but it will get harder as you move forward and the more bodyfat you lose. As to how far this will go, is highly individual.

Thanks mane. I'm still fat (186 lbs at 5'11 last time I checked), but I've lost a lot of weight and I'm starting to think about my strength and endurance more.

Even though I look and feel better, I do notice that I've got the strength of a holocaust survivor. I'm embarrassed to say I can only do like 25 pushups and that shit needs to change. Pretty confident about my running however, I've improved leaps and bounds in that area.

I lift weights 5 times a week, but I'm DYEL as fuck and don't really seem to have much stamina. The sad thing is I might be the healthiest person in my life atm.

bump

reposting from the qtddtot:

5lbs progression refers to 5lbs added per session, meaning I need 2.5lb plates?

Yes.

>Modified SS

What is wrong with you? Why won't you just do it like it is in the book?

You're stalling at 2pl8 bench because you're not following the routine. Your novive progession is far from where it should be if you're stalling.

You're retarded

Please more comments on this matter.

Did you even read my earlier comment? Would it please Ripp if I did his program by the book? Yes, but has he given the modified program the go ahead for people who want to add accessories anyway? Yes.

We each have personal goals, i respect Rip as a trainer and he gives absolute solid advice, but I don't get this cult following that absolutely everything he says must be adhered to, else face eternal damnation?

5X5 routines appear both before and after Rippetoe, an each can be somewhat tailored to the individual's goal, providing any added volume doesn't interfere with linear progression on the main 4 lifts.