SS doesn't work upper body

>SS doesn't work upper body

can we stop this meme?

tell me ONE upper body muscle that one of the big 5 exercises doesn't work.

friendly tip: you can't.

no shall we move on with our lives please? Thank you!

Other urls found in this thread:

jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/
web.archive.org/web/20160306025657/http://weightrainer.net/training/beginners.html
ironstrong.org/topic/1157-the-average-fn-program-a-simple-and-efficient-training-template/
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=166488611
canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/
youtube.com/watch?v=yYBIUESKrBE
startingstrength.com/article/the_novice_effect
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

traps

>he pussied it out of power cleans

well that's not SSs' problem

>SSs'

idiot

I'm Norwegian, let's keep this ON TOPIC PLEASE.

It's lower heavy in total amount of sets. It's retarded to recommend a program that has power cleans as one of the main lifts for people who want a boatbuilders body. The book is great for form but there are much better programs around for the goals of most beginners here

Now we can move on with our lives.

Daily reminder what's the best program for beginner
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

Monday

Hi Bar Squat 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Bench Press 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Deadlift from 3” Blocks 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Chest Supported Rows 4×10-15 Reps

Walking Lunges 2×12 Steps

Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted If Necessary)

Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps
Wednesday

Front Squat Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Widegrip Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Cable Rows 4×10-15 Reps

Leg Press 2×10-15 Reps

DB Incline Bench 2×10-15 Reps

Good Morning 2×10-15 Reps
Friday

Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

RDLS 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Lat Pulldowns 4×10-15 Reps

DB Step Ups 2×6 Each Leg

DB Military Press 2×10-15 Reps

Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps
Saturday

Box Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Closegrip Bench 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

One Arm DB Rows 4×10-15 Reps

Goblet Squats 2×10-15 Reps

Incline Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted if Necessary)

Good Mornings 2×10-15 Reps

there's nothing wrong with power cleans. You don't even need a coach to learn how to do them. If you know how to deadlift, you are half way through to properly learn power cleans. SS is a BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO STARTING STRENGTH..... if you are WILLING to dedicate 20 years of your life lifting, then fucking hell, do dedicate a small percentage of it to learn PROPER FORM....

or wait... you won't stop lifting when you look good for girls right??

the power clean is the funnest exercise in the program you loser

I'm married mate, so no.

Of course you should learn the form, you can learn the form with a different better program, it's not like anyone reads the fucking book anyway

>if you are WILLING to dedicate 20 years of your life lifting
then you don't need SS

Ok cool? Most people want to be bodybuilders and not Olympic lifters, power cleans give you nothing that other exercises don't

wtf?

Why should I GAIN MUH STRENGHT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE if I can do top tier programs like 5/3/1 or juggernaut beginner program like this ?

do whatever inefficient shit you want you dumb faggot

Power cleans give you explosiveness in the legs. They develop the fast twitch muscles

Why Rippetoe's cocksuckers like you usually claim first that the only good program is SS and if I say them that there is better programs from real coaches they take offence and cry?

>5/3/1
>Juggernaut
>inefficient shit
>SS
>EFFECTIVE PROGRAM
>FROM COACH WHOSE SPECIALIZATION IS TRAINING BEGINNERS

If i'm a weak skinny fuck like 170cm 55kg, should i do SS or a full body or PPL?

or juggernaut
or casey butts
?

SS

Why? What about dem gains
and how long should i do ss for

Literally ss with gomad. I'm not even memeing you. If you're that thin you need to eat eat eat and drink drink drink. Please, 3 months and then post pics. You'll thank me.

6 months SS

Then something that i'm not sure.

I don't think you are memeing me i just want to know why it's better than fullbody or ppl. I have really thight hamstrings though and squatting/dl is back painful

Count your calories. Chances are you're a "I can't gain weight/fast metabolism" person. If this is you and you actually want muscle, you need to eat waaaay more than you think. I started at 61kg/170 and thought I ate a lot. Turns out I was retarded and wasn't even close to what I thought I ate.

Measure and log food for like a month and you'll get a solid idea going forward how much food gives you what calories/protein etc. Also don't listen to the bro's/shills, you don't need more than 100g protein/day.

Also SS, SL or GSLP and just stick with it, don't be distracted by bros and curl and bench every day

I'm counting my calories, planning on buying a scale.
I just wanted to know why SS instead of fullbody or ppl

Not him, but PPL requires some serious serious dedication to rest and food. And it'll cost you a lot of hours every week, unless you're a freak/obsessive you'll burn out and lose interest.

SS is essentially full body, you do multiple muscle groups every work out. Do you meant a split? Like a chest day, back day etc? Those are bad because muscle growth lasts about 72 hours, if you only do chest/back etc once a week that means you grow for about 3 days then wait 4 days before you work the muscle again. It's inefficient. Different story if you're on gear like most of the youtube faggots who promote that shit

No, i don't mean a split.
I mean this shit:
web.archive.org/web/20160306025657/http://weightrainer.net/training/beginners.html

>current year
>not doing percentage-based submaximal programming (which you can, and will, customize) for long-term gains

tfw no longer beginner to use this program

looks extra fun but I probably shouldnt touch it with

low 4pl8 squat, mid 2pl8 bench and high 4pl8 dl

You're meant to run SS for 3-4 months before switching to something like TM for the powerlifters or something like PHUL for bodybuilders.

If you want to be a bigguy4u natty, you have to lift heavy to get that volume in.

Why do 5/3/1 when you can hit a PR every workout instead of once per cycle? This is why people who just wanna brosplit don't get. You get stronger, you get bigger, so get fucking strong by hitting PRs as often as possible, with SS/SL/GSLP you're getting strong fast as fuck. Then move on to whatever other program. Go ahead and throw in 3x8-12 curls at the end of SS. It won't hurt - but if you can't do a goddamn chin-up yet it's a waste of time because you will get bigger guns doing those than 3x8-12 15# hammer curls.

>beginner
>knowing 1rm
Yeah no, that's literally retarded mate. The 1rm of a beginner increases every workout if you let it- percentagebased program does not work,

Not gonna read all that shit. Sounds stupid desu mate. 2x10 for all those exercises, you're gonna burn out completely.

Also no indication of actual progression just some shit about "slightly harder"... That's not a program that's some fitness magazine bull shit.

Also SS, SL, GSLP etc are all full body work outs. Not sure how you think what you posted is different other than the stupid 'do literally everything every work out for a billion reps' idea.

Stop being such a cunt.
Ss is literally made for someone like you. You'll put on mass and gain a shit ton of strength so that when you do move on to some other split type routine in 3-6 months you'll actually be able to lift heavier weights and put in even more mass. If you did a ppl or split now you'd be using 6kg dumbbells and make 0 gains. You won't go to the gym ever again and you'll be a skinny cunt for the rest of your life.

Do ss.
Do gomad.
Come back in 3 months and if you want to switch routine then make a few shitty threads until someone else tells you what to do.
Do ss
Do ss
Do ss

Should i read the book and actually GOMAD or just hitting my goal of 3k calories enough?

Not him but doing ppl or fullbody workouts while being a weak dyel won't be very effective,SS helps you get the basic strength you need to do more advanced workouts more efficently

Outside of SS/SL/GSLP there are a few other decent begginer LP's too.

There's the Average F'n Program - good for rank novices
ironstrong.org/topic/1157-the-average-fn-program-a-simple-and-efficient-training-template/

70s Big LP - adaptable from rank novice through novice-intermediate
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=166488611

Canditio Linear - better for someone who has some experience but isn't a rank novice
canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/
The Strength/Hypertrophy version is great for guys who are doing their first lean bulk.

3k calories enough. For me, its three meals a day.

You don't need to do gomad so long you're hitting your calories and MORE IMPORTANTLY your protein quota,eat shit like oats and meat for to reach it.

I read ripp website and he said something about a novice eating 6000cals a day
Holy fuck seriously?

5/3/1 and juggernaut are both inefficient and suck hard for anyone who hasn't been lifting for 2+ years, especially the barebones 5/3/1 BBB.

Also should i add some isolations/acessories?

his nutrition advice is all garbage

You should actually READ SS and look at what accessories are suggested to be added.

You don't have to do GOMAD if you don't want to. Basically that's for skinny 14 year olds who want to get big for football over the summer.

If you're skinny, eat at a TDEE+500 surplus. If you're not gaining a 1lb per week, eat a little more until you do. If you're fat just try and maintain or do TDEE-500.

The book is a great instruction on the primary lifts. I taught myself proper form using it + the videos online.

Keep in mind it goes like this:

First 2-3 weeks
Squat, Press/Bench (alt), DL

Next 2-3 weeks
Squat, Press/Bench (alt), DL/PC (alt)

After that:
Squat, Press/Bench (alt), DL/Chins/PC (alt)

At this point linear gains start to slow.
Mon: Squat, Press/Bench (alt), DL
Wed: Light Squat, Press/Bench (alt), Chins, Back Extension
Fri: Squat, Press/Bench (alt), PC

This is 3-4 months in. Then you transition to an intermediate routine.

>juggernaut
I'm talking about this and not about usual jugernaut program
>5/3/1
Has tons of options and very good for beginners.

If you can't do chinups, curls + lat pulldowns (v-grip) will help you get there. Those are good accessories. Chins are important and you should work on them too. But read the book, he has a whole list of recommended accessories.

Dude, Wendler recommends SS for beginners.

5/3/1 is dogshit for beginners because AMRAPs are shitty for beginners because they cheat on form and don't actually know when they should keep going and when they should stop. Also you progress so slowly when you could progress on your main lifts 1-3 times a week instead of 2x per month.

>It's lower heavy in total amount of sets.

Hmm...

Squat = 9 sets a week
Deadlift = 1.5 sets a week
Power Clean = 7.5 sets a week
Presses = 9 sets a week
Chin-ups = 4.5 sets a week

Looks to me like it has slightly more upper body sets:

Squats = Presses

Mixed Movements (Deadlift/PC) = 9 sets

Chin-ups = 4.5 sets

looking at total number of sets and not total number of volume

this is how you recognize beginners

desu not true look up greg nuckols

5/3/1 is bad program for beginners beacsue progress slow as hell, I wont advice it to anybody who can add more than 5kg to their total a month

and beginner can add 7.5 a week

The user I was responding to made a claim about sets, and I proved he was wrong.

Volume isn't as comparable because the lower body is capable of greater weight than the upper body. I suppose we could consider volume for fun. I'll be back with the numbers.

Ah, the ol' "3-4 months" meme.

Three to NINE months.

If you eat correctly you can probably (and should want to) keep doing linear progression for half a year, with a reset or two in there of course.

fact that he is beginner and has problems with choosing simple stronglifts or starting strenght and considers 5/3/1 means itself he shouldnt choose anything, let somebody with experience choose shut up and just do the work

you can add some upper body assistance if you want to or even make assistance day where you hit bodybuilding stuff

>have really efficent workout routine that everyone int/adv respects
>have any thoughts about doing it

just do it faggot

Knuckols at least says AMRAP is until form breaks down, and to not go beyond that. Still don't like AMRAPs for beginners.

beacuse Nuckols give a real lifting science to it and Wendler said beginners can use 5/3/1 just for marketing purposes

I did it in 4 months while cutting from 255->235
Squat 95->250
Bench 65->175
Press 55->145
Dead 125->305

At that point I was done with my LP, the press was the first and most frequent to stall.

If you have 13 euro then but the starting strength app (or pirate it if you know how) it has everything laid out nice and simple with the best and important bits of the book nearly organised so you don't have to read a 600 page book.

I agree with you there. Knuckols actually knows what he's talking about. Wendler is just an old, broken, drugged out powerlifter, and made a program for other old, broken, drugged out powerlifters.

stronglifts app is really, really fucking nice too

I used it when I started lifting

>shitty for beginners because they cheat
Then every program is shit. You are an idiot.

>5/3/1 is bad program for beginners beacsue progress slow as hell
You progress every week. Is it slow?

Did you microload using 1lb plates?
Did you do resets?
Did you introduce a light day on Wednesday?
Did you begin to take a one day on, two day off approach?
Did you increase your caloric intake?

It is totally possible you exhausted your LP after four months, but I find a lot of people will leave a lot of potential linear progress to die on the vine.

you dont add weight every week like in Nucklos, you practice lifts max 2x a week

and I progressed with squat every workout until 250

7.5kg a week

now I squat ~180kg or more (dont know beacuse I test maxes in 2 weeks)

youtube.com/watch?v=yYBIUESKrBE

never had injury

why the fuck would you limit yourself with 5/3/1?

>you dont add weight every week
If first week I squat 245 for 5+, second 260 for 3+ and third 275 for 1+ then certainly I add weight every week.

>those piss weak lifts

Exactly why you should be doing SS instead.

what the fuck your brain dead or something? 5/3/1 is cycle based you add weight after whole cycle

245, 260, 275 its all within your max set for current month and its based on it

thats like saying I squat 315 at monday and than 350 at friday nvm that I squatted 390 before

you have no idea what you babbling about

I guess I will build strenght and confidence for now and then man up and ask someone in my gym to teach me power cleans.

It just that in the sticky they recommend pendlay instead of cleans so I thought it was fine

If you're too much of a pussy to do power cleans you can do speed deadlifts with 60% your deadlift working weight, or high pulls, which are power cleans without the catch.

it works upper body but the volume for bench press is hilariously low, and overhead press doesn't make up for this

on the standard program you've got 9 working sets of squat a week, 1 working set of deadlift (lol), and either 3 or 6 working sets of bench press (lol)

that's a recipe for a bad bench press for most people

regardless it's a beginner program you should only be on a few months so whatever fuck it just do it, but i'd always advise people to do a few backoff bench press sets after their main work (just strip some weight off and do 2-3x8-10 or something) and not alternate benching and pressing

also do your curls you neckbearded fucks

it piss

Chin-ups make all the difference. For the first three months, chin-up volume will tend to cause overal upper body volume to exceed lower body volume...

Even if you don't progress past 15 bodyweight chin-ups.

The volume difference is that great.

Do your chin-ups and the program becomes balanced.

Why are pedlay rows so shit?
And what weight do you do power cleans? Do you add each workout?

I will read up on this tonight but please respond

>spent 3 weeks at the gym doing ss
>squat went from 55kg to 90kg
>dl from 60kg to 115kg
>press from 30kg to 35kg
>bench from 45kg to 57.5kg
>gain 6kg bodyweight
I can press with 37.5kg, but it's really hard and techinque juts falls apart.
I bench with a really wide grip, wider than I supposed, I guess. But otherwise I can't add more weight every workout. A-am I doing something wrong?

>Even if you don't progress past 15 bodyweight chin-ups.

>I can't do even 8

That was an extreme case.
>Guy named Zach came in and decided to go all-out.
>complete novice
>Gained 55 lbs in 11 weeks
>6000 calories a day doing GOMAD (remember that a gallon of whole milk is 2300). 3700 in normal food isn't as extreme.
>Started at 145lb for 5 reps
>11 weeks later was doing 315 for 5 reps

Here’s the article
startingstrength.com/article/the_novice_effect

yeah man, you can totally hit your chest with the same volume you can hit your legs with.

I thought i had stalled but i wasn't getting enough calories in.

why is the weighttrainer website dead?

i posted that the bench press volume is too low, and you respond by telling me the program has chin-ups in it?

fantastically irrelevant, the bench pressing (and overall pressing) volume is still way too low

5/3/1 is not bad for beginners because the progress is slow

it's bad for beginners because doing the main lifts once a week is not the ideal way to learn how to do them as a completely shitheaded novice

as far as rate of progression goes, if it took you a few months longer to get to a 315 squat, but your work capacity was much higher and your quads were much bigger and had the potential to move more weight later down the line, that isn't necessarily a bad thing

this

AMRAPs when you can barely hold your form together for sets of 5 as it is are a pretty terrible idea

i always got the feeling greg's beginner templates are more for people who already know how to do the lifts but have just been fucking around than actual rank beginners

as long as diet is not an issue, and you are actually stalled on LP, it's probably a good idea to get off it sooner rather than later

I would honestly like to know why you all consider pedlay shit too

Not eating enough
Did you deload?

not that guy

but i think if you want to train you upper back with rows, you should do a row variant that doesn't put stress on your lower back as much as pendlays do

because i want to use that lower back stress for deadlifts instead

pendlay rows down with proper form dont put any stress on the lower back if you keep it neutral.
squat and deadlift instead build up your legs to anchor yourself to the floor and keep the back parallel during rows.

I couldn't do the jump from 85kg to 90kg on the squat the first time, so I deloaded to 80kg, applied what I read in the book to improve technique and worked back in 2.5-5kg increments.

I'm going to do the same with the deadlift. I guess I could lift 120kg, but I'd rather work on technique a little. Besides, I feel REALLY tired after DLs. Even standing still for 10-20 minutes while commuting the next day I can feel how tired the lower back is.

As for the OHP and the bench, I didn't. The weights are tiny as they are... Maybe I should add less than 2.5kg per workout? But my gym doesn't have such small plates... I guess it can be worked around. Also, my technique on both those excercises must be awful...

Not eating enough may indeed be the problem. I'm dirt-poor and eat as much as I can, which isn't much...

Also, what is a proper thread to post form-checks? Is it fine to make one for this sole purpose?

done*, not down

>I can feel how tired the lower back is.
strange because your lower back should stay neutral during all deadlifting. you shouldn't feel it hurt or sore after the workout.

For OHP and BP, usually gyms don't have fractional weights. Buy yours. They're pricey but well worth it. Been using them all the times.