Why does Veeky Forums hate this book...

Why does Veeky Forums hate this book? I mean the translation I read was quite a hard read and some parts were really boring but the guy brought up some good points. What I found the most interesting was how people 2000 years ago were like you and me in a lot of ways, complaining about people's shitty grammar, procrastinating, sleeping in. It might sound obvious that people are people but it really fascinated me, probably because it's the oldest book I've read (besides extracts from the bible).

Is it just self help books that people here dislike in general? If not what are some Veeky Forums recommendations?

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heartiste.wordpress.com
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustan_History
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Veeky Forums practically jerks off to this book and self-help books in general

I tried reading it, but it was too deep in the weeds for me. I guess I need a dumbed-down translation

There's some good stuf in their but the worst thing about the book and stoicism in general is the apathy and lack of ambition to fix problems or complete goals. If you could take the valuable parts of stoicism and mix it with daring courage you would probably have a pretty badass philosophy.

I mean bro you're on a Veeky Forumsness board. Most of the people here don't appreciate the power of reading/enhancing your mind. I would take any arguments posted here with a grain of salt and instead form your own opinions on what it was Marcus Aurelius was trying to say and whether or not some, if not all, of what he's saying holds true to life. Discussions like this will be more fruitful on Veeky Forums, or even IRL.

Since, like me, you're fascinated by stuff that was written 2000 years ago still being relevant I recommend you read The Republic by Plato. This one chick wrote a really solid intro in the Penguin Edition and the translation is pretty good.

I have never seen anyone in all the Veeky Forums literature threads I've ever seen hate on this book. It's in the top 5 for every single self-help book collection...

I found mostly that the apathy aspect of stoicism stemmed from the Roman's belief in gods. It's pretty easy and convenient to remove yourself from responsibility of some occurances when you can just say "The God's willed it". But that's just a flaw in religion in general. I really liked all the other parts, but hey, not all philosophies are perfect.

But stoicism is all about fixing problems and completing goals. Read Epictetus. He lays it out for you that you need to recognize that there are two things in this world, those within your control, and those outside your control. Always improve what you can control so that it performs in the way nature intended, and never worry about what happens that is outside your control.

Since when does Veeky Forums hate that book?

I used to think that too about stoicism, but really it's not apathy, it's more that you should not get emotionally attached to to external things. For example, you should lift at try to get stronger, but don't base your happiness on your lifts, and don't get upset if you fail a PR attempt.

Admittedly, they do have a theme of accepting what you cannot change, but often this includes things such as wealth or being jealous of your neighbour Chadius' hot gf, or a shitty boss, which I disagree, because those are things which can be changed.

>apathy

I understood it more as "if you acted on your best will, made use of reason and all the available information, you shouldn't feel too bad if you fucked shit up"

>Most shilled book here of all time

>Hated

by who?

>If you could take the valuable parts of stoicism and mix it with daring courage you would probably have a pretty badass philosophy.
Who says you can't?

I think you're very wrong in saying stoics should be generalized as being apathetic and less ambitious. I think what people should take away from stoicism is that it isn't about doing nothing AT ALL, it's that you shouldn't spend your energy on things you cannot control.

Stoicism is realizing that you have no control over life, or your fate, but that you do have control over your reactions to these. i.e. you CHOOSE whether or not you want to eat that pizza, or get to the gym.

There were a couple passages about the chaos caused by gods, that Aurelius deemed "uncontrollable". This is what I saw as "apathy".

What you're talking about is entirely different, and it's actually one of my favorite lessons in the book: Maintain composure, make good decisions, but sometimes things don't go your way.

Because the only value of these books is between the time you buy it off amazon you feel really good about getting your life together, but then it arrives, you read maybe 10 pages, put it down, and never touch it again.

>I have ADHD, so everyone else must too!

Keep reading bro, you do seem like an intelligent guy and it's great that you have your own dissenting opinion on this.

With that being said, let me pose a question to you. How exactly do you have any control over the actions of literal Gods? I don't think that you can, unless you have some kind of crazy interdimensional power. Instead, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say that you really only have control over your own human reaction to the situation?

Stoicism is taking a realistic approach to what you can actually control and cutting out the factors you cannot. (weather, warfare, illness). It is not apathetic in nature by any means.

I should add, with a stoic mind you can absolutely RESPOND accordingly to factors like weather, warfare, and illness but you cannot control them entirely.

It's sad that you project yourself by assuming everyone else is just like you. How could you be this weak minded? It's like you want to live and die dumb.
>buying books to make yourself feel good instead of learning

I've been re-reading this book for the past 3 years.

Pro tip:

You don't actually have to read it from cover to cover, but you can flip open to any page, and begin reading. I find it especially useful while pooping.

Just finished it and I've seen it recommended on here countless times. Would definitely suggest it to anyone trying to better themselves

I've perpetually had anger issues my whole life and I don't think anything has had a greater dampening ability than this book and stoicism in general. I feel untouchable to the mundane now.

It's like knowing you can always retreat to the oasis of your own mind, switch gears and be an ubermensch by only acting instead of whining, and disconnecting from lowly bullshit that plagues most people.

I found many parallels to biblical parables and teachings too which was nice.

You don't have any control over the actions of literal Gods, that's what I'm saying. That's where Aurelius' philosophy breaks down, it's a cop out. Sometimes thing happen, but he they do not happen because God's will it.

And while I'm sure that Aurelius was not the type to cop out much, I entirely remove that from my personal philosophy. If something doesn't go my way, my first move is to analyze my approach and see in what ways I could've done better, while also being open to accepting that sometimes not everything works out.

If that makes sense..

I like you bro

I was like that but deemed that I'd be more valuable a human if I finished it.

I was right

I clearly didn't do too good a job of explaining what I was trying to say.
read this post:

I understand, and I think we're on the same page here. I completely agree about the controllable/uncontrollable aspects of life and only putting effort into the controllable aspects.

However, I think that sharing Aurelius' belief in Gods allows you to incorrectly identify aspects of your life that are controllable as uncontrollable.

For instance: weather, warfare, illness, are all uncontrollable aspects. We agree on this. But to use a more modern example, you could identify you failing a test as: The God's willed it, or I didn't study enough.

Clearly the God's did not will you to fail a test, you simply weren't prepared. Can you control the fact that you failed now that the test has been completed? No! You shouldn't worry yourself about the past. However, by copping out with a "god's willed it" excuse, you might not learn your lesson for the future.

Religion =/= Stoicism

You can literally remove all the religious themes throughout Stoicism, and have yet an even better philosophy; one that focuses primarily on the self.

And, I think, every Stoic will agree that test scores are under our control. I think you're misinformed on what is and what isn't under our control.

On second thought, test scores may not be under our control. Gotta think about the Prof. or student grading your work, and how they feel.

But overall, it is under your control if you aren't a brainlet.

Also, i'm drunk.

Desperation, denial, anger.

When your comment lands a little too close to a nerve.

>post something wrong
>people call you out on being wrong
>did i strike a nerve???

> implying anyone is desperate, in denial, or angry.
> when your comment was too stupdid

>Is it just self help books that people here dislike in general?

Who doesn't hate self-help books? Jesus christ, next you're going to tell me you like corporate outings.

Confronted and called out, the user resorts to posting reaction images and 'meme arrows'.

This is the type of behaviour we have come to expect from Anons in these threads.

If our previous research is correct we can expect their behaviour to become more aggressive, erratic, and self-destructive as the user spirals into an unbridled rage.

Good book, but given that the Romans were like the Greeks and believed that the gods would fuck with them just for the sake of it, there's more fatalism in there than I like. Not that it isn't motivational - control what you can, fuck what you can't - just that there's better out there.

You didn't like the hard, boring parts, so here are some easier reads that are still good:

Try Machiavelli's "The Prince". More goal-oriented. It doesn't deserve it's bad reputation; the book is more about pragmatism. It's as much about knowing when to refrain from evil as knowing when to do it.

Miyamoto Musashi's Book of Five Rings (mostly for Earth and Void; the rest can be read metaphorically but are intended for swordplay, whereas Earth and Void are about mindset). Good to read when you want to relax and detach your mind.

If you're religious, Kierkegaard's "Fear and Trembling". Longer than the others, but if you know the story of Abraham and Isaac the metaphor is much easier to understand. It's about being so certain of a course of action that you can experience the worst sort of dread about it, but still carry it out. Sort of anti-nihilism.

The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoof. Tao Te Ching without all the poetry. Call it eastern stoicism; it's about letting your mind go with the flow and being at peace while you live your life, and recognizing when you're letting your mind work against you.

Nassim Taleb's Antifragile. Longer than the rest here, but he repeats the same point so many times in different ways that you can fly through it pretty quickly. It's about structuring your life in such a way that you benefit from low-level conflict and uncertainty rather than suffering for it. Mostly discussing businesses and natural phenomena, but the mindset is there too. Also a Veeky Forums book because he uses lifting as an example of low-level stress (exercise) making something stronger (muscles) rather than weaker.

>confronted and called out
In what meaningful fashion
>If our previous research is correct we can expect their behaviour to become more aggressive, erratic, and self-destructive as the user spirals into an unbridled rage
I don't know if we can meet expectations, professor. Perhaps a lack of blinding is creating a bias in the results?

Well yeah, I expressed that I was in the same boat as your comment but pushing through and finishing it was worth it. Not really anger but my own anecdotal experience for you.

What's Veeky Forums approved literature for mental gainz?

The Anons upon realising their usual tactic of spamming reaction images and meme arrows has been snookered appear to be attempting a different tactic.

Their anger is implicit, although they appear to be concealing it.

Interesting, this is behaviour we've never seen with these specimens before.

Maybe if we antagonise them they'll revert to more typical behaviour.

*taps glass*

Cuck

You kinda missed the point man, stoicism isn't about being apathetic towards everything, it's about being apathetic towards things that are outside of your control. A stoic is apathetic towards things like shitty weather, bad traffic, other people's shitty moods, etc.

Meditations
Ben Franklin's Autobiography
The 48 Laws of Power (really more for a sobering understanding of the world and it's mechanisms)

Oh.

for learning to talk to grills: read all of heartiste, citizen renegade, and roissy in dc

I bet I can screech in a high enough pitch to break the glass and we can escape.

A good way of thinking about it is, our goals and values are under our control.

Stoic goal:
"I will play to the best of my abilities"

Non stoic goal:
"I will win this tennis match"

The first one is purely self driven and in your control. The second one isn't. However, if you follow the first goal, you stand a better chance of accomplishing the other.

If you play your best and still lose there is no point getting upset because you accomplished your goal.

A good book that summarised stoic philosophy for the modern age is The Guide To the Good Life by William B Irvine

+1 for antifragile,

taleb's books cause a paradigm shift in the average person's understanding of randomness

Vote Hilary

bit late to do that innit

You're absolutely fucking retarded, if you think Stoicism advocates apathy than you've misunderstood every Stoic you've read.
Also stop posting faggy little anime pictures

Shit I failed

I'm guessing you're no stoic yourself

kek

topkek Marcus Aurelius went down in history as one of the most ambitious and courageous roman Emperors.

Thank you for replying. I would be able to better describe if I wasn't drinking, but I'm hindering my mind atm. I heard of the book. Suprisingly, I had a chance to meet the author, and others influential in modern-Stoicism(ie. Donald Robertson, Massimo something, Ryan Holiday, etc), but through the event I won, I wasn't 21(yet, which was in the rules. They didn't even know this, kek), which would have been pretty cool.

I don't think they ever claimed a winner. But Fuck DailyStoic dot com. They didn't even send me the books, even though I won the major event, but couldn't attend. The books was why I submitted in the first place.

Also, these are drunk ramblings of a failing prokopton

I was only pretending to be retarded

I really like the way you framed it. Good example

>Why does Veeky Forums hate this book?

I see it recommended all the time, dickrider. Quit posting shit threads.

it's not apathy, it's the recognition that much of your life will be conditioned by events well outside your control. To the stoic, our lives comprise part of a chain of causality that began well before our existence and will continue well after it. Think fatalism rather than divine voluntarism when referring to the stoics.

Here you go lads

Because it is not the Koran.

It isn't even a recognised Hadith.

Other than that it isn't bad, just a tad long with a noticeable lack of metallurgy and thermodynamics.

>book lacks ambition
>written by the Emperor of the Known World, who is still influencing the world millenia into the future.

Kierkegaard is great regardless of your religion
if you can't handle his devotion to God then you don't deserve his insight

>much of your life will be conditioned by events well outside your control
t. Cuckold

>stoicism in general is the apathy and lack of ambition to fix problems or complete goals
Blatantly wrong interpretation. I bet you think Nietzsche was a nihilist too

>Veeky Forums
>read books

fuck off nerd

What do you mean? Veeky Forums loves this books and its usually banned in suggestions threads of what book to read for mental gains because it's a no brainer.

pretty sure ur legit retarded tho bro sorry

Because the Enchiridion is better

The only stoic text you've read is the summary on Wikipedia's stoicism page, isn't it

another user here.

Heartiste is really great. But as always, take it with a grain of salt and form your own opinion.
9.1/10

heartiste.wordpress.com

because retards like entirely misconstrue stoicism

You sound like you have legitimate autism, I'm sorry

>the translation I read was quite a hard read
How is Marcus Aurelius a heard read? Are you retarded or an American?

Nathan I know you're in here somewhere.

>topkek Marcus Aurelius went down in history as one of the most ambitious and courageous roman Emperors
He was the last of the good emperors who put his stupid son in charge of the empire causing irreversible damage to the empire. He watched his wife cuck him with sailors from around Rome and this is the guy you call the most ambitious and courageous emperors? Pretty sure there are better ones out there to choose from. Dont allow your like of the book to cloud your assessment of his decision making.

>Why does Veeky Forums hate this book?
we don't?
IMO it's not quite as good as yukio mishima but it's still an amazing book

>ctrl+f
>epictetus

At least someone who reads

Daily reminder that dyels can't into reading, since to get jacked you need to read about training

>stoicism in general is the apathy and lack of ambition to fix problems or complete goals

Why don't you fix your fucking head you stupid fridge

>He watched his wife cuck him with sailors from around Rome
source?

Help Veeky Forums, which book is the ultimate motivation red pill ? I have stopped working out, i am unable to study, i just look at the empty wall pretty much all day.

>i just look at the empty wall pretty much all day.
This was me like a year ago.
Man's search for meaning definitely helped me, the title makes it sound like it's a self-help meme book but it's about a man talking about his experience in Auschwitz and why he didn't kill himself there.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustan_History

Read some Dostoevsky, I recommend reading The Underground Man and then Crime and Punishment or The Brothers Karamazov

Nope I've read Meditations, Seneca, Epictetus and other smaller stoic works.

what are some books that are worth picking up?

I'm getting a bit tired of the modern politics and would like to get my mind off my civilization being destroyed by outsiders

I read pic related the other night. It caught me by surprise how they spoke about "avoiding erotic thoughts" and taking cold baths. It was weird to see these strongmen talk about what is considered memes nowadays.

Summary of Meditations by Marcus Aurelius:

>It's all in your head. If you don't agree with what's happening then just ignore and avoid it. If something good happens then it's because you're enlightened and powerful.

>buy it off amazon

?
buy it?

gutenberg

>reading on the internet
>from kindle

Disgust.

Sauce?

noice

Download and print it off

bait, disregard

The most important thing to realize going in to this work is that it isn't a fucking self help book. It's scholarly collection of *personal* journal entries from Aurelius while on military campaigns. If one wants to take lessons from his musings, cool. But he didn't write all that shit down so you could get over tfw no gf.

Kek this has nothing to do with his ambition or courage. He defeated the last of the barbarian hordes and enacted a successful imperial expansionist policy. He might have made a mistake setting commodus as his successor, but this has nothing to do with hjs courage or ambition. He is remembered as one of romes greatest emperors. Dont allow your dislike of the book cloud your asessment of his rule.

as a pretty regular Veeky Forumsfit/ cross poster, this image always makes me scratch my head. Those books seem to be basically chosen at random. I've read all but Les Mis and yeah, they are great books that deserve praise, but, well-

To use an analogy that might make sense here, it'd be like a chart of Veeky Forums approved exercises, with jump rope, Bench press, and farmers walks.

I mean, it's not "wrong" or something, benching and jumping rope are great exercises. There's just no thought there to a routine or progression or training schedule or diet or mindset or form info or really reasoning behind those exercises.

you get me?

How would you describe "Life is a Dream"? Synopsis is quite alluring t b h.