This part of the program gets quite confusing in the books, so I will try to summarize it here for anons who are trying to milk their last gains on SS and need a quicker reference.
In a perfect world you would have progressed for about 18 weeks on SS without stopping on linear progression in a way similar to this:-
SS Phase 1 = Weeks 1-2 SS Phase 2 = Weeks 3-8 SS Phase 3 = Weeks 9-18
Note on Phase 3: Bodyweight chin-ups are done to 3xF. If chin-up reps are consistently above 10 on all 3 sets, add weight to them for every other workout, so that failure happens at 5 to 7 reps. This will increase the reps on the bodyweight-only days and increase arm and shoulder strength for the presses.
-------------------------- cont'd
Mason Fisher
As you get closer to Intermediate during the final part of SS Phase 3 (i.e. you can no longer add weight at each workout), you can still try and delay your LP for a bit more by using these methods.
Case A. When you reach a plateau (you come from linear increments but you miss one or few reps during your new workout) you try resetting the weight 10% lower.
So if you miss reps on the Press at 112 lbs on Wed, you would apply a 10% reset like this: Mon -> 100 lbs 3x5 Fri -> 105 lbs 3x5 Wed -> 110 lbs 3x5 Mon -> 112 lbs 3x5 In 2 weeks and a half you're back at your PR weight now without missing any reps.
Case B. When you miss reps for the first time but then at the next workout you become stubborn and try to keep pushing you're gonna get even more stuck. And this takes even more time. In this case you need a much harder reset to fix your situation.
And back again at your previous "PR" in more or less 4 weeks. This shows that stubbornness or ego lifting takes much longer to recover from.
-------------------------- cont'd
Samuel Lewis
Once you use Case A or B for resets twice per exercise, it is time to move on to the further actions to be taken below:-
#1 - Firstly, use Wed as a squat 'recovery day'. Squat a weight that is 20-40% less than Monday's. Keep adding weight on Mon and Fri sessions.
#1.5 - When that becomes tough, use back-off sets for Squat. I.e. increase weight as usual for your first squat set. Then apply 5-10% reduction for sets 2 and 3. This applies only to Mon and Fri workouts. On Wed workout, you should keep going with method #1: 20-40% less than the first heavy set of Monday and do that 3x5 with no back-offs.
#2 - For Bench, The Press, use instead the 3x3 method. You increase weight (probably by 2 lbs/1kg) and lift 3 sets by 3 reps only. For Power Clean you do the same but 4 sets of 2 reps only.
#3 - Another method is to stretch your working week to "two days off one day on". E.g. Mon Wed Fri workout becomes Mon Thu Sun Wed Sat Tue (over 2 weeks). In this scenario, every other squat session is a 'recovery day' like at #1. This means that you only have 1 heavy increasing squat every 6 days.
You can try using the methods #1.5, #2, #3 above all at once or one by one according to what stalls first and how your body feels through recovery.
If you stall while running these methods, you can apply the "Reset cases A or B" (according to how many times you've been missing reps) explained above once or twice. After that is done too, you should accept that your novice efforts have been exhausted and you are finally ready to start The Texas Method.
Thomas Rodriguez
I already knew this stuff but you did a good deed by presenting this
Adrian Gray
I will revise grammar and untie parts that are too wordy or difficult to read. So maybe next week I can post an updated version.
user's feedback and questions would be great too, so we can make it an even better post.
The Adv Nov phase is certainly the most confusing for anybody doing SS.
Josiah Miller
Bump for most underrated thread on Veeky Forums right now.
Elijah Ortiz
if you guys need any info from the book i can post it here.
Austin Johnson
>Strenght
hmmmmmmmm
Andrew Lee
this shit should be in the sticky
Carter Stewart
Nice post my dude, this shit is seriously going to help me.
Alexander Hill
Are you telling me to deload as soon as i miss a rep? The book said to deload once you miss your rep three times
Benjamin Martinez
>#2 - For Bench, The Press, use instead the 3x3 method. You increase weight (probably by 2 lbs/1kg) and lift 3 sets by 3 reps only. For Power Clean you do the same but 4 sets of 2 reps only. >#3 - Another method is to stretch your working week to "two days off one day on". >E.g. Mon Wed Fri workout becomes Mon Thu Sun Wed Sat Tue (over 2 weeks). In this scenario, every other squat session is a 'recovery day' like at #1. >This means that you only have 1 heavy increasing squat every 6 days. Why do real coaches recommend to do more volume while Rippetoe recommends the opposite?
Adrian Edwards
Because he assumes that your body is at the very end of its capability to recover from the daily overload , so it requires lower adjustment.
However the volume remains the same for squats . It only decreases slightly for the presses because he observed that works better for athletes. Texas method follows some of these same principles.
Ayden Brown
>real coaches
please dont try to compare some guy coaching an advanced athlete with another person who primarily coaches beginners
also
>volume >frequency
pick 1
progression on SS is based on intensity. i.e. increase in weight on the bar
if volume needs to be reduced to increase that, that's how it will be.
Chase Campbell
This is a beginner's strength program transitioning into the intermediate. When you read PPST you'll find that he has lots of higher-volume work in the intermediate and advanced sections, including a whole discussion of adding training days in the HLM section, which if you followed it, could build into training 5-6 days a week.
Easton Young
Thanks for the info/advice. Saving it. Currently reading Starting Strength and one thing puzzles me. I don't quite understand why it's better to keep the thumbs over the bar during squats instead of using them to grip. I just didn't get the logic behind that.
Camden Murphy
It's an issue with nerve and muscle fibers. Also, if you keep your wrists bent, and use improper form, you may tend to keep the bar's weight on your wrists and the sheer forces may damage it.
But for example, even if I manage to keep your wrists straight and wrap your thumbs around the bar I feel a pain in my elbow or through my forearm at some point, whereas if I keep the thumbs on top of the bar it feels quite comfortable. Other people feel the opposite, so it depends. It may also be that when your weight increases also the signals that your body sends you change.
Cooper Ward
PSA for Veeky Forums
If you already know good form for the basic lifts, buy Practical Programming for Strength Training.
PPST goes into all the details OP is showing plus other scenarios for old people, women, and fat people. It covers the programming for Starting Strength, advanced novice, Texas Method, Split Routines, Bill Starr methods, and advanced methods.
It is well worth the price and can be purchased on Amazon. I recommend getting the paper back, but people on a budget can get the Kindle app edition for like $10.
If you rely on sticky summaries and random posts, you will not have everything. So much ignorance could be prevented if people would just read the books (Starting Strength and PPST).
Josiah Murphy
The key is to make sure your shoulders are holding the load. If you are doing that, the grip doesn't matter much.
Parker Jenkins
Rippetoe assumes that during "advanced novice" you are at your own very limits of the LP and your body will start need more recovery from lifting the heavy weights (relative to a novice).
In the above situation, you will likely miss one or more reps across most or all 3 sets of an exercise. So don't take it literally. That's why he suggests to take action sooner rather than later. If you keep overloading, you will surely fail more even more resp and need even a deeper reset.
Ex: Press @ 112lbs Wed -> 1x4 , 1x5, 1x5
Lucas Bennett
True. However sometimes the books go into so much details that it's quite hard to keep everything schematic and clear cut by the various paragraphs. Purpose of the summary was really just to turn to bullet points that particular section of PP.
God knows how many times I'll have to go over and over the basic The Texas Method paragraphs to even start doing something like this thread for that.
The books are really a goldmine of info tho.
Jace Evans
Rip says that Bench will go to 1 to 3 pound jumps.
Based on this, I would think the lifter in your scenario would be better off doing the following:
Wednesday
4/5/5 @ 112 lbs
Monday
5/5/5 @ 111 lbs
Friday
5/5/5 @ 112 lbs
Only once the 1 lb increases fail would I move on to the novice troubleshooting methods.
Connor Barnes
Yeah, the books are more study materials. People need to read the, and make their own notes until they understand.
Also, Rip could have done a better job with the programming section of SS. You really have to grab PPST to fully understand what Rip imagines for the novice progression.
Easton Lopez
I now get it. Thanks mateys
Adam Thomas
yeah, SS is just pretty much about learning the main lifts and accessories. the Programming chapter is like a joke
David Wood
Now, to his credit, there is enough programming in SS to get you through the basic novice progression, which I guess is fair considering the name of the book is STARTING Strength.
***please insert coin to continue strength***
(Also, most people don't even do the basic program as written)
Christopher Russell
Knowing how's it been so far for me (not sure how much of personal factor there is at play here), I think it'd be tough to Bench full 3x5 @ 111lbs on Mon. Or if I did, and even if on Friday I managed to achieve my 3x5 @ 112lbs, I'm afraid that on Wednesday I'd be at 113 or 115 lbs @ 1x4-5, 1x4, 1x3 or something like that.
Have you tried that before yourself? How further did it progress?
Josiah Wood
To be honest, I don't bench press (just do weighted push-ups), so most of my experience is from the Overhead Press which is a temperamental lift. OHP tends to increase for a few workouts and then crash in a 3 steps forward, 1 step back sort of fashion. I think this is just the nature of the upper body lifts. They tend to be very sensitive to your current mental state and recovery level.
Ryder Gonzalez
>never actually read SS >didn't even know there were phases Explains why I never made it, now I'm doing Greyskull without having read the book either.
