Milk

Legit, milk is filled with estrogen, saturated fat, and cholesterol.

Soy milk has healthy fats, no estrogen (dairy and meat industry shills fund bullshit research and studies to say it's loaded with estrogen) and the same micronutrients. It's clearly the better choice and dairy is shit.

>saturated fat is healthy
>dietary cholesterol helps your body produce testosterone

I dunno about the estrogen part.

Having a glass of milk a day with your PP isn't gonna turn you into a girl.

Just don't go full GOMAD

After a quick google search, it seems that the estrogen levels in milk,. while present, do not raise estrogen in people that consume milk. So vegan gain goblin begone.

I have like 300-500mil a day is that too much

Does it fit your diet?

How about full fat, unhomogenised?

It's fine.

Veeky Forums is way too obsessed with min/maxing estrogen/test, getting the right supplements that hardly do anything, etc

>hurr I need dat HMB that costs $70 because it boosted the strength of a rat by 1% at nighttime while doing decline dumbbell press with their eyes closed

Milk protein is high quality protein.

But, there is the hormone problem which may or may not be serious.

>>saturated fat is healthy
>>dietary cholesterol helps your body produce testosterone

Internet broscience

But it doesn't..... Sigh. saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

Weeeeeew lad

>published research in a peer reviewed scientific journal

>every paper that gets published in a peer-reviewed journal is independently true and doesn't need to be analyzed any further than its summary paragraph

You have no idea how science or science journals work

This

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22905670
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648?dopt=AbstractPlus
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685950?dopt=AbstractPlus
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19852882

As far as I know, there is only a single study every done which showed saturated fat increasing the amount of bad cholesterol in blood, and it was later falsified.

Milk has hormones, however the amount is absolutely miniscule. Its so small that even GOMAD wont affect your hormonal profile.
You will find more hormones in fruit and vegetables.

Milk, along with eggs, are one of the most complete sources of nutrients, vitamins and minerals. It has a good Whey to casein profile 1:2. Its easy to add to your diet when youre trying to gain weight, and it has a decent amount of protein per kcal.

There is nothing wrong with milk.

Fick off with your vegan pseudo science bullshit. Milk is great for Bones and Places like Italy where milk is less common suffers more from weak bones than for example Scandinavia. On the other hand milk increases the risk of getting memory loss and diseases like Alzheimer's and dementia.

I'm lactose intolerant and have seen this Fairlife milk. Looks pretty good on the nutritional facts except sugar but eh. I'm just curious because I know it's a Coca-cola product.

Also, if you don't drink milk (with lactose) then you are not white.

Scandinavia has some of the highest rates of osteoporosis though, do your research mate dairy is terrible for ya

Have you ever had raw milk? Shit's fucking gross. idk what people do to that shit to make it palatable, but god bless 'em.

I want to try it. I bet I would love it.

I have not. I just like the visual of squatting down and sucking on a cow's tit while some dumbass calf is starving in a cage, waiting to be turned into veal.

>vegan's internal sexual fantasies

>Scandinavia has some of the highest rates of osteoporosis though
And the reason for it is lack of heavy physical activity.
Bone density has pretty much nothing to do with calcium intake, but its heavily correlated with strength. People who lift throughout their lives or do heavy work, have no issues with osteoporosis.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27634943

Evidence showing milk and dairy is completely safe and may have a positive health impact:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27882862
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27996057

When you find research that says something contrary to what the majority of experts agree with, the next step is to analyze it. These videos look analyze the study in your second link, as an example.

youtube.com/watch?v=a-Tx9dCbv-g
youtube.com/watch?v=3Wi9dzkTiU4

>there is only a single study every done which showed saturated fat increasing the amount of bad cholesterol in blood, and it was later falsified.

No idea where you got that or how you could have believed something that ridiculous. There are hundreds of carefully designed studies testing that. The results are so consistent that scientists have been able to make an equation to calculate it (hegsted equation)

bmj.com/content/314/7074/112.long

>395 dietary experiments

Fick off with your meat eating pseudo science bullshit.

>Conflicts of interest
>funding from the Dairy Research Institute
> Danish Dairy Research Foundation
>Global Dairy Platform, Dairy Research Institute and Dairy Australia
>The Dairy Council (London)
>European Milk Forum

They're sure to give an unbiased review of the research

im not a vegan, fuckface. I love milk and i eat meat.

But Eating tons of calcium wont do shit for your bones, unless youre deficit. Bones are like muscles, they adapt to the work. If you dont do any heavy work then youre bones deteriorate, like your muscles. If you do heavy work or lift the bones gets denser.

>hurr durr big milk is trying to lure us

How stupid are you? Milk is heavily regulated by laws, here in Europe. They have to pass strict tests to sell their products.

If they tried to make false claims then they would have given their product a definitive positive effect. They didnt. It was close to having no effect to health at all, but MAY have some beneficial effects.

Some people are so god damn paranoid about everything.

Here's an Anecdote:
I live in a place where everyone drinks milk, and no one I personally know has ever broken a bone, yet this one Latin American immigrant dude that I know has broken his arm twice. He's lactose intolerant and doesn't drink milk.

It's like a really tasty protein shake. Get the skim version, unbeatable macros

What strict tests are you talking about and what do they have to do with the health effects of dairy foods? Do coca cola products pass these strict public health tests that allow them to be sold in stores?

i have been drinking big glass of milk for as long as i can remember. i have never broken a bone nor fractured or anything.

my brother stopped drinking quite early and has broken 2 bones.

>The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts

Read the study instead of cherry picking.

>you will find more hormones in fruits and vegetables
>implying fruits and vegetables have more molecules in them that will directly affect transcription/translation in animals than the stuff made from animals

are you the guy who claimed human beings synthesize vitamin C, and that gunnar glasses' yellow tint reduces vitamin C synthesis?

there are some goddamned retards on here

you are right, but see above

adult mammals do not consume milk. it is literally baby food. after we are weaned from milk, 9/10 of us stop expressing lactose dehydrogenase, the enzyme responsible for splitting lactose into monomers our guts can absorb. that means that for 9/10 of us, milk and dairy are not necessary for a complete diet.

Milk is the only food that provides superior proteins and nutrition than eggs.
>9/10 of us
I guess 9/10 people don't have the superior genetic profile of those that can drink milk.

1% is GOAT. Perfect balance of creaminess and sweetness.

>are you the guy who claimed human beings synthesize vitamin C
No, how about staying on topic.

>adult mammals do not consume milk. it is literally baby food
by that logic we shouldnt fly airplanes because its for birds. you shouldnt eat honey, becuase its for baby bees, you shouldnt eat eggs because its made for a fetus.
And we developed an enzyme to be able to process lactose in adulthood, called lactase. This only happens in Northen countries were milk have been an important source of kcals and nutrients.
Which is why africa who dont have milk in their diet are 95% lactose intolerant.

And no food is necessary for a complete diet, but eggs and milk are nutrient dense and is a wise choice to have in your diet.

VEGAN KEKOLDS FUCK OFF THIS PLANET

Real milk or gtfo

They commissioned and paid for the research and several of the scientists work directly for the dairy industry, of course they had influence on the results. That's why conflicts of interest like funding source are required as a disclosure.

>Read the study instead of cherry picking

Here's an example of the quality of the paper

>Among high-fat dairy products, cheese in particular does not seem to increase LDL-cholesterol to the extent expected, based on the high content of saturated fat (33).

Reference 33 is to this study

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22030228/

>Cheese intake in large amounts lowers LDL-cholesterol concentrations
>...compared with butter intake of equal fat content.

Then they claim "neutral or possibly beneficial effects" which is technically accurate in the context of the cited study but obviously misleading, and then your gullible ass goes to the store and loads your cart up with cheese because you took some industry funded research at face value and didn't give a shit if it was good information

Milk is for WHITE people only. It's only shitskins that complain about how bad it is.

>Milk is for WHITE people only. It's only shitskins that complain about how bad it is.
qft

are you for real?
>Among high-fat dairy products, cheese in particular does not seem to increase LDL-cholesterol to the extent expected, based on the high content of saturated fat (33).
>Among high-fat dairy products

It doesnt compare to other sources of staurated fats. which they say in the study.

They didnt hide this at all. and this was just ONE factor in the cardiovasculare section.
The study is about general health, which means not just staurated fat related issues, but also cancer; cardiovascular disease; mortality; obesity; osteoporosis; type 2 diabetes.

So you find one tiny non-relevant example and try to discretid the whole study which got its evidence mainly from meta-analyses of observational studies and randomised controlled trials?

>tmw Asian and can drink milk

Is this milk meme just a meme?

>And we developed an enzyme to be able to process lactose in adulthood, called lactase. This only happens in Northen countries were milk have been an important source of kcals and nutrients. Which is why africa who dont have milk in their diet are 95% lactose intolerant

you are so misinformed it is comical. the enzyme is lactose dehydrogenase. white people aren't the only people who express LDH as adults. there are 3 different mutations associated with adult LDH expression traceable to 3 geographic regoins: europe, somewhere in arabia, and northern africa

>by that logic we shouldnt fly airplanes because its for birds

you can't follow logic. those who don't express LDH as adults shouldn't drink milk. honey isn't just for baby bees, and eggs aren't made for fetuses, they literally are if they are fertilized

>by that logic we shouldnt fly airplanes because its for birds
birds don't fly airplanes. regardless this analogy isn't even appropriate

>>are you the guy who claimed human beings synthesize vitamin C
>No, how about staying on topic.

literally, can you even?

>those who don't express LDH as adults shouldn't drink milk

People who are lactose intolerant shouldnt drink milk? Shit, who knew....

How is eggs not developed for fetuses? Its very similare to the human menstrual cycle. where they dump the egg if it isnt fertilized.
And bees make honey to encase their larvae, so they get food for their development.

I'm not reading entire studies and all their supporting data right now to argue against it in this soon-to-be-deleted thread, but it's an example of the kind of research they pick for the review. They used that in the section on cardiovascular disease. They had a whole segment trying to get cheese off the hook for raising bad cholesterol levels. "a high intake of cheese was found not to increase LDL-cholesterol. "

So eat more cheese? Totally safe? Thanks, Dairy Research Institute. I don't see a section on how butter adversely affects lipids, since they were just using butter as a comparison to get us to eat more cheese.

This comment should be part of the sticky.

They said it didnt differ from other dairy sources of dietary fats. They said nothing else. They didnt claim its healtier or better than non-dairy sources of saturated fats.
And how you think other sources of non-dairy saturated fats are going to show completely different effects on the body in a regulare meal is beyond me.

honey is an important food source for bees when there is no nectar to drink. because honey is straight simple sugar, you can't live off it exclusively. you need nitrogen. bees get it from pollen. the lack of nitrogen prevents sugar and butter from spoiling, just like honey

It is alright when it is raw or atleast fresh whole milk organic and/or grass fed.
Because great micros (Vitamins and Minerals) and fats (omega 3, less omega 6, CLA etc).
Homogenized or low fat is shit because it loses most of the good stuff in the production.
The amount of animal estrogen is minor, especially in organic grass fed milk.
The only thing that is proofen is that it can increase the risk of prostata cancer.
However, if you keep it in moderation and eat well and clean most of the time this is also a very minor thing. Redmeat is more carticinogenic for example but still not as shitty as obesity, smoking, chemicals in some textiles or on fruits etc.
So it wont affect you in moderation.
You could also switch out milk with fermented milk products if you don't want to drink milk daily.

I drink fat free milk, just to make room in my diet for some more fats and oils elsewhere (I would rather have a fattier cut of meat than a glass of whole milk) and because I kind of don't really like how milk tastes that much and fat free milk tastes closer to water. I have about 2 cups (473 ml) of milk every day, with some protein powder. Milk wont make you grow tits (as a woman who drank milk all through her childhood and now has like B cups) and it contains calcium. If you want to bulk, milk is also a good way of consuming more fat (although ideally you're still maintaining a high protein diet, because cholesterol and saturated fat are no good for your cardiovascular system).

I will cede that whole milk contains a little saturated fat, but if you watch your intake it shouldn't matter tremendously. What you need to be watching is also the cholesterol. Its not particularly high in whole milk, but it will add up if you're drinking nothing but milk (or a large amount of milk every day). You should still make sure that you're SUPPLEMENTING with milk but HYDRATING with water, not the other way around.

the mutations for adult LDH expression first appeared less than 10,000 years ago. the fact that they appear in 1/10 people is incredible. it is one of the most highly positively selected genes in our pool

Yeah nah.

youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI

They cited a study comparing cheese to butter and used that in a section of their review where they tried to argue that cheese doesn't raise LDL cholesterol. It's not about what other sources of saturated fats do, of course those raise LDL too, but their paper doesn't argue "cheese may raise LDL less so than butter, but as a source of saturated fatty acids it does raise LDL cholesterol, and also butter is worse." They're arguing that cheese simply DOESN'T raise your bad cholesterol, by comparing it to other unhealthy foods. This is not what impartial scientists would do. It's a marketing effort.

fats in general raise test, not specifically cholesterol or saturated fat

mono and polyunsaturated are the best for you

well my quick google search says that milk increases risk of prostate cancer and increases estrogen levels

why not just go for the alternatives that do neither of those things

dear god i dont care lmao. also, what a manface. this is your face on veganism.

So you know that milk is unhealthy.

That's settled then. Next question.

Forgot the sources:
>healthyhints.com/organic-milk-vs-regular-milk
>dairynutrition.ca/scientific-evidence
>breakingmuscle.com/fuel/how-healthy-is-milk-really-science-is-divided

It's really no different than any other animal products. Fine in moderation, bad in excess.

I think milk saved me from being a manlet. My dad is 5'9, mom 5'4 and I never ate healthy throughout my childhood, but I drank tons of milk. Im 6'1 now

Oh and btw Osteoporosis is most of the times the result of a lack of Vitamin D and exercise.
Lack of Calcium is pretty rare in todays times.

pfft. no, i dont care because for 90% of the video all she does is talks about how "harmful" milk is to animals. i dont care. and i dont believe anything that ugly brainwashed vegan says.

Defending milk means you're either a "muh IIFYM" who needs everything simplified for you to commit to something or you're too retarded to spend a few hours reading medical journals of metabolic wards and milk. (No, not those population studies that don't measure bad physiological markers at baseline - they're fraudulent by virtue of assuming an already unhealthy population is a good standard.)

The most honest people in this thread who drink milk have at least acknowledged it's not healthy in and of itself.

Go replace milk with kale, spinach and another dark green of your choice. Fat fucks.

Are you my mom?

Yeah but I cant put my protein powder in kale. Sure, in an ideal world everyone would be eating dark greens and avoiding milk, but people will always want to do their favorite thing.

fpbp

Asians are honorary whites.

Nah bro. 3% is the way to go. 1% feels like milk blended with water

Veeky Forums doesn't like my other sources so I posted sites that cited some of them

>healthyhints.com/organic-milk-vs-regular-milk
>and remember that there have been absolutely no associations between saturated fat and heart disease (4), and saturated fats can actually help to achieve healthy cholesterol levels. (?)
>goes on to recommend raw milk

Have a little skepticism when you read these kinds of websites

cdc.gov/features/rawmilk/

Butthurt vegan
Skinny beta vegan you have to go back

What the fuck? Raw milk is fucking delicious.
t. Grew up in farm country. Had that shit straight out of the cow.

nice source faget

>not getting enough daily estrogen for hair gains

It's like you don't even want to make it.

fucking americans thinking dairy is bad for you

everything in moderation my dude

It just has way more taste than the processed one, but it's not bad.

My man, half-gomad here too.

>t. Grew up in farm country. Had that shit straight out of the cow.
Poor thing... you never knew any better...

In general dairy is bad but as long as you don't drink half a liter of milk and 100g cheese every day it's pretty fine.

Forgot an "eat" there.

Anyway it's funny to see people saying it's actually good/healthy. I hope for you the increase in risk for many things only stays a risk.

I never drank milk as a child, I hated the taste and i didnt break a bone. I now drink milk in big amounts and I have not broken a bone either,

Maybe its just that im not retarded and tried my best to not hurt myself by jumping down cliffs and shit.

Because milk doesn't help your bones at all. If anything it's actually bad because of the high amount of galactose. Sometimes I wonder if there's some actual shilling going on here.

Yea na the processes and additives they are forced to add to milk make it taste worse, your just used to the taste

Worked on a dairy for a lot of years and had fresh milk every day. Bought some from the store every now and then and it always tasted waterd down and like dirt

no shilling here, just broscience, ignorance, and stupidity

Cant have any penalcilan traces - at all or its rejected and owner faces heavy fines

Cell count must be low - means quality must be high/no shit milk

Tests for waterd down milk are made

Bacteria count must be super low

Temprature must be below 4'C on pickup

Diet must not include certain foods or chemicals

Sediment/ dirt must be non exsistant

They test for all this shit, and more, every pick up. One fuck up and your up for tens of thousands of dollars of fines.

Milk is the fastest liquid. Because it's pasteurized before you see it.