REMINDER that to MAXIMISE GAINS you must INTERMITTENT FAST:
>Fasting for a 24-hour time period showed a dramatic elevation of human growth hormone levels. In this particular study, the result was a 2,000% increase. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC329619/?page=6 >Some people claim that fasting a single day causes loss of ¼ pound of muscle. Studies prove that this does not occur. In fact, the opposite can happen. In comparing caloric reduction diets to fasting, the fasting was 4 times better at preserving lean mass. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27569118 >Caloric ingestion, regardless of the macronutrient, causes a decrease in testosterone in the male body. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319710 >As shown in this study from the Journal of Obesity, subjects who fasted experienced an elevated level of fat burning. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17372321 >In this study published in the American Journal of Physiology, fasting-induced autophagy increased the efficiency of the removal of toxins and estrogenic compounds, and blocking estrogen is definitely optimal. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21106691 >Two sets of male subjects: 9 massively obese men and 8 non-obese men. Both groups took part in an overnight fast as well as a 54-hour fast. The obese men saw a 26% increase in Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone, or GnRH, a testosterone pre-cursor. The non-obese men experienced an increase in GnRH by 67% as well as a 180% increase in serum testosterone levels. anabolicmen.com/intermittent-fasting-testosterone/
The fact that intermittent fasting increases testosterone and stimulates all the right hormones that support healthy testosterone production, while suppressing the hormones that interfere with testosterone production, has made me a lifelong participant in the habit.
>If you’re a man, intermittent fasting is the best kind of way to eat for hormonal health.
I don't normally post but I wanted to share my exp for anons.
I experimented with fasting / IF almost 7 months. First I did 16/8 for 2 months and then I started doing warrior diet ( 20/4) for another 5 months.
The real challenge wasn't staying away from food or not eating. it was eating enough during your feeding window. Seriously if you want to gain weight IF is not the best idea, especially the extreme ones like 20/4.
What happened is that, at first I managed to get all those KCall in in those 4 hours but soon I starrted to dread. cause if you haven't eaten for 20 hours and then eat you can't eat as much. and you get lazy af.
I do think the fasting attributed to my younger looking skin.
so what happened is that I basically conditioned myself to not need as much food.
I do not do IF anymore but I can still easily go a day without food. Which is nice.
The downside is that I basically conditioned myself and I am just not hungry and eat smaller meals, still.
I wanted to gain weight on IF/Warrior Diet. What happened instead is that I lost 10kg in 7 months. ( desu I also slacked workouts and shit but )
Yeah.
dunno senpaitachi. I wanted to believe and for a while I did and it was great. But at the end of the ride I have to conclude that if you have a normal life, a job, a wife, maybe kids, a house, shit to do.... Keeping up with IF/Warrior to gain muscle isn't aa good idea
Robert Smith
IF, combined with fasted workouts is just too good. If you're not doing it then wtf are you doing?
Zachary Stewart
What's a fasted workout?
Anyway, I'm doing the 16/8 fasing schedule right now. Basically skip breakfast and eat a decent lunch and dinner. We'll see how it goes, on day five and it isn't that hard though my depression has already conditioned me to go long hours without food so I'm not expecting much trouble there.
Ryan Hernandez
>Fasting for a 24-hour time period showed a dramatic elevation of human growth hormone levels. In this particular study, the result was a 2,000% increase.
y-you got me interested
Hunter Perry
working out on an empty stomach O N E M E A L A D A Y CMON
Nathaniel Perry
>been IF'ing for years >sometimes do just one meal a day >experimenting with a new schedule >fasted training at 10 PM -> eat -> sleep This is going to be interesting.
Eli Roberts
What are the benefits of working out on an empty stomach?
Aaron Martin
Less power
Hunter Evans
Implications for athletes: This has enormous implications for athletes. This is called ‘training in the fasted state’. Increased nor-adrenalin from fasting will pump you up to train harder. At the same time, the elevated HGH stimulated by fasting should increase muscle mass and make recovery from a workout easier and faster. This would be an important advantage in elite level athletes, and we are seeing more and more interest in doing this exact sort of protocol.
So, for all those people who thought that fasting would make you tired, or that you could not exercise during fasting, well, you’re just wrong. Fasting does not ‘burn’ muscle. There is no ‘starvation’ mode from fasting where you shrivel up into the fetal position on your couch.
Rather, fasting has the potential to unleash the anti-aging properties of HGH without any of the problems of excessive HGH (prostate cancer, increased blood sugar, increased blood pressure). For those interested in athletic performance, the benefits are even greater.
Anthony James
wrong. you have been misinformed
Adrian Foster
here's another study to add to your collection my english isn't very good so i wasn't able to comprehend all that much, but i think basically they found is that fasting regenerates the immune system and stem cells
"Moreover, fasting lowers somatomedin C levels (1 1) and in so doing removes feedback inhibition of GH release (12). This open-loop system would be predicted to elevate basal GH concentrations and allow identification of spontaneous pulsatility with greater accuracy."
"There was a slow but progressive decline in circulating SmC concentrations with increasing duration of fast."
"GH administration failed to decrease urine nitrogen loss during starvation in normal or in GH-deficient subjects (35, 40, 41). However, the anabolic or nitrogen-retaining effects are indirect and are thought to be mediated by the generation of tissue growth factors such as SmC. Our data demonstrate that fasting causes a dissociation between increased GH secretion and SmC production. Thus, anabolic effects of SmC would have been minimal during starvation since circulating (and presumably tissue) concentrations of this growth factor were low."
Somatomedins are what /mediate/ the beneficial effects of growth hormone. So it is inducing growth hormone resistance and not increasing growth hormone action. Not necessarily a beneficial change. You wouldn't say that compensatory hyperinsulinemia in diabetes from insulin resistance has the same benefits as roiding with insulin.
Connor Long
i am 19
Wyatt Martinez
>meme >posted numerous studies
Eli Gutierrez
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27569118 They measured body composition in an error-prone way that doesn't correct for water weight and food in the GI tract. The authors themselves acknowledge this
"This disparity may have been due to the weight of food contained in the gastrointestinal tract of the subjects after feeding. Another possible reason may be that, by the end of the trial, subjects started to consume more water/ liquids on the fast days to deal with their hunger. As such, if more water was consumed on day 68 (i.e., the night before the feed day blood draw), body weight would be increased on day69. Nonetheless, our inability to identify the precise reason for this discrepancy in body weight values is an evident limitation to the study."
There is also increased glycogen storage in the liver from reduced feeding that increases apparent lean body mass. And the intervention was done on fatties not healthy people who exercise. It isn't designed to test for muscle preservation or loss.
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319710 Basically the same type of problem here. Looking at blood values in isolation and not actual androgen action in tissues. Caloric ingestion will reduce the production of counter-regulatory hormones that inhibit androgen receptor expression and sensitivity.
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17372321 Obviously there is more fat oxidation because other fuels aren't as available. The problem is that this only looks at substrate utilization during exercise and not afterburn. Ingesting carbohydrate and protein are known to allow for a better workout and more volume which will in turn produce more muscle growth that raises BMR and promotes even greater fat oxidation in the long run.
Wyatt Morales
Could you not have posted some better studies?? The studied you cited are taken out of context to connect them with IF and many of them are completely irregulated and thus crap.
I hate when non-medicine retards think they can into proving concepts just by searching random ass studies in pubmed.
But yes, IF is healthy.
Jack Collins
I've been lurking here and doing 16/8, 18/6 for about 8 months now and liking it - I'm going to start hitting a gym when i move cities in August - this is the issue - it's clearly nigh on impossible to bulk and eat a surplus with this protocol.
How detrimental to n00b gains would a 24h fast once a week be?
William Torres
It's nice for losing weight.. but gaining mass is nearly impossible. Skipping carbs over the day and feasting in the evening will do the trick without you having to gulp down gallons of food in a short time.
I started at 100kg and lost 2-3 kg in 2 weeks (hard to say over such a short time period), but managed to still progress with my lifts fairly easy. The first few sessions on an empty stomach were hard tough.
7/10 would recommend for fatsos who want a beach body in may.
Jaxon Long
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21106691 Liver cells were isolated from mice and put in a petri dish without nutrients or calories. As expected they began eating themselves. The researchers in particular monitored eating of mitochondria. No "removal of toxins and estrogenic compounds", phase I and II metabolism can actually become downregulated in response to serum starvation. In vivo this would be equivalent to not eating which you can't do forever unless you want to die. Cellular nutrient and energy stores are not finite and eventually need to be replenished.
hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/701064/ "However, when starvation is critically prolonged and when body mass index reaches 13kg/m2 or lower, acute liver insufficiency occurs with features of autophagic cell death, which can be observed by electron microscopy analysis of liver biopsy samples."
What is this supposed to demonstrate beyond life not needing a continuous exogenous source of food (something learned in kindergarten usually)?
They found that fasting causes the body's stem cell pools to enter a quiescent state where they don't divide as much.
This is good for cancer patients because chemotherapy drugs target dividing cells. Stem cells can get seriously damaged this way producing various side-effects (like immunosuppression from damage to immune stem cells, cognitive impairment and depression from damage in neural stem cells) and even DNA mutations that leads to more cancer (secondary malignancy). Existing cancer cells on the other hand are more resistant to nutrient deprivation signals produced during fasting. They override them by producing their own autocrine growth factors and eat other cells in the body (cancer cachexia) instead. So chemo becomes much more selective for them.
It is bad for immune function in a pathogenic environment because you need immune stem cells to divide more and produce actual functioning immune cells for defense.
Luis Clark
It suits some, others dont. I started 3 weeks ago. Gaining is not the best idea since its too much food to stuff into you in a short window. I do 20:4 and dont have any problems. You dont feel hungry after a few days. Usually I eat before I workout and then right after and be done for the day. I run fasted on non-lifting and who burn fat like crazy. IF is absolutely glorious for cutting
Kevin Perry
>posting random studies is actual proof
This board is full of retards, wow.
Nathaniel Reyes
Where did he claim it's proof? He just said it isn't a meme.
Matthew Taylor
So functional training is not a meme because when I search pubmed for it I can find random studies that somehow connect to it?
It's still a meme on the board, clearly.
Austin Hill
>In vivo this would be equivalent to not eating I'm not the dude you quoted, but this bit alone makes me not read any further and disregard anything else you said. Completely fucking wrong on several levels.
Daniel Ward
How so?
Camden Carter
Let's see those studies on functional training.
Xavier Anderson
First off, it's mice. Mice aren't humans. The amount of times people have tested working stuff in vivo in mice on on humans and it still didn't turn out the same ways is staggering.
It's also a petri dish, which is a very isolated environment and basically devoid of tons of interactions those cells would normally be in, in a body. And there are a lot of those especially in energy conservation etc. You also jumped from dish to in vivo in one sentence without any kind of doubts about what you were proposing.
Matthew Reed
So... what is fasting again?
Luke Wright
I cited a study shortly afterward where hepatic autophagy is observed in anorexics, a population characterized by restricted eating.
And your argument is just an xkcd meme that I'm well aware my friend. Look at fig 3 in ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC363084 and fig 1 in ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288 if you want refs. The OP paper actually cites the former and the first sentence of the abstract is "Fasting in vivo and nutrient deprivation in vitro enhance sequestration of mitochondria and other organelles by autophagy for recycling of essential nutrients", it's a pretty well-accepted model
Angel Butler
>I cited a study shortly afterward >when starvation is critically prolonged and when body mass index reaches 13kg/m2 or lower Even the part you quoted already puts the relevance to IF heavily into question. Do you understand how fasting greatly differs from this? And your point that it's about not eating at all is retarded.
>And your argument is just an xkcd meme Yeah, that's where you're wrong. I'm out of the discussion. You did a shit job at convincing me. See ya.
Brody Powell
What's the best way to eat if you're a woman who has relatively high levels of test? How do you reduce test?
Nolan Turner
I do two 36 hour fasts per week. EC stack really helps. Anyone else have similar eating habits? I'm also trying to make it so all of my carbs come from brown rice / fruits + veggies and cutting out bread.
Aaron Lee
PS
I spike my GH with peptide injects. MOD GRF + GHRP2.
Anyone else use peptides to spike the GH release during fasting? I'm noticing better skin + fatloss. It's been a month so far.
Ian Foster
does he have cancer?
Aaron Jackson
What possible difference could two hours make?
Nathaniel Sanchez
I do 16/8, I dine at 9 pm and fast till lunch at 1pm. I get a coffe first thing in the morning. Does that coffee break the fast?
Hudson Cruz
Where the fuck are you taking those goalposts?
>Even the part you quoted already puts the relevance to IF heavily into question. The original paper was barely relevant to IF in the first place. What is your point?
>Do you understand how fasting greatly differs from this? There is no difference other than the magnitude of the nutrient deprivation.
>And your point that it's about not eating at all is retarded. The simulator of autophagy here is nutrient deprivation, ie not eating at all. Do you not have grade 1 reading skills? They're not doing fast-refeed cycles (where the net effect would still be net nutrient deprivation anyway). I'm sorry scientific facts emotionally disturb you, but that's no excuse for projecting your own retardation onto my points.
>Yeah, that's where you're wrong. I'm out of the discussion. You did a shit job at convincing me. See ya. Way to quit after running out of memes and strawmen. Don't let the door hit you on the way back to /b/ now.
Nathaniel Ross
Not from what I've read. Anything low or near 0 calories like water, tea, black coffee doesn't count.
Gabriel Howard
don't put sugar or milk in it
Nathaniel Ramirez
youre then more likely to have depleted all glucose and are now burning fat for energy. You know, thats why we store fat. To get energy when we go without for a longer time. 14-15 hours your body starts to burn the fat to generate energy. Thats why you dont feel hungr during fasting after awhile: Your body adapts to not getting food throughout. The longer you go, the more do you burn. Cardio fasted + Intermittent fasting is amazing for cutting
Charles Flores
Is Keto + 18/6 IF with fasted cardio and yohimbine hcl first thing in the morning a solid plan for the last month of my cut?
Lucas Sullivan
IF is the best addition to keto once the fat loss starts stalling. gives your body more time to use body fat as energy instead of food fat.
Angel Roberts
how do you do this? I've heard of fasting for the end of your day, something like afternoon till the next day when you train but wont this literally kill your gains from not eating enough stuff? also I pretty much can't sleep at all hungry, do you feel pretty hungry when fasting? are beverages allowed?
Austin Barnes
Reporting back: >gym after a 24 h fast was alright, although I'm coming back from a 3-month break and therefore lifting light weights After gym I ate >800 grams of chicken breast >200 grams of oats >1000 grams of quark That was double my usual meals, since I forgot to go grocery shopping and buy something more calorie dense. Tomorrow I'll lower my carbs (guess I'm doing this LG style).
Chase Williams
Are there any books on this that Veeky Forums would suggest?
Sebastian James
Fuck you guys, I've kind of been doing IF without realizing it. Only 15/9, but still. Combined with low carb, my weight loss is going great.
David Barnes
So what is the general consensus? I was just trying to read up on IF today but who knows what's true online. So from anyone's personal experience how has IF been for fat loss?
Christian Smith
Would I still see some of the IF benefits if I eat at 9:30 am and 7:30 pm? In the morning I'll have eggs or cheerios and almond milk if I don't feel like cooking, under 300 calories. Then something for under 1200 for Dinner.
William Evans
user, idk about you, but I work 8-5(or 6)pm. I've been interested in IF, but I could never really do it by the book, because I don't really have a time in the day I can workout fasted then eat right after. Any recommendations, short of doing like a 20/4 on my lift days or 16/8 eating from 6a to 4p?
Brayden Reyes
I struggle with feeling light headed at work and overall weird sometimes. I attempt to do the 18/6 routine.
Would salt and potassium help? I have low blood pressure in general.
Christopher Taylor
I am doing IF with long fasting periods. Ate my meal yesterday and now I am fasting till wednesday evening and then fast again till friday and then again till sunday. repeat.
James Stewart
Feeling light headed could definitely be symptomatic of your hypotension. How low is your diastolic/sys? Get some blood work done to see your sodium serum levels, you don't want to just guess that stuff.
I would try to eat at regular intervals, because fasting would (in regards to making you feel dizzy) lower your blood sugar. In layman terms, blood glucose is a good estimator of how much energy your body can use right now without using energy stored in fat; if that level gets low, you become lethargic.
Ayden Gonzalez
What's the best/most effective fast:feed time ratio?
Lucas Gray
I want to start IF in may(18/6) to loose some weight. Do i need the typical -500 kcal deficit Or is It Too much? How clean should I eat?
Evan Price
I've been eating with IM for four years now. Can't imagine going back.
William Howard
>in may start now
I've kept the same -800 deficit condensed to a 8 hour window and it's working out pretty well
Julian Hughes
How clean do you eat?
Matthew Diaz
holy fuck americans are stupid
Christopher Baker
600ml milk 90g protein powder 200g raw outs 100g peanut butter All blended up, trust me you gotta eat shit like this to grow on 20/4. That shake is 1800-2000kcal just by itself.
Mason Nelson
he fell for it
Elijah Hall
t b h been doing 24 hour fasts for years 7 days a week with maybe 1 day off every couple weeks.
it's a phenomenal diet for anybody desperate to lose weight. issues with cravings are non-existent, no hunger pain, no mindfog, no lethargy.
if anything i prefer how i feel pre-eating, mind feels a lot clearer & calmer, its when I can get the best of my days work done.
Leo Garcia
>24 hour fasts for years >great for weight loss >still fat
maybe not user
Ian Cox
Only if you suck at eating
I can eat 2500 in a meal and still be hungry as long as it isn't pure chicken breast or something
Jose Perez
sorry can you copy and paste where I said I was using it for weight loss?
Landon Moore
Not who you were replying to, but I also work 8 - 6 (sometimes longer). I eat dinner around 7:30, workout at 5:45AM. I then eat lunch around 2 or 3.
Tyler Davis
>peer reviewed websites cannot be trusted >they are too random
I don't understand how its random when he was purposely looking for articles off peer reviewed websites based on a certain topic of interest.
Matthew Bennett
You dont want to Just increase your est
Zachary Turner
Im about to try MK677, have any experience with that?
Cooper Parker
>this retard is calling everyone a retard for falling for the peer reviewed website meme
You should also write down, "ive never been to college" while you're at it.
Easton Robinson
I'm on day 1 of a prolonged fast. Just got back from the gym. Performance was about the same as normal. Hopefully it won't get much worse.
Xavier Turner
But you can't completely dismiss the information since the physiological effects can generally be similar. Such as death if no O2 present amongst all animals. Or loss in biomass from reduced caloric intake. But yes, further studies would be required. You can't stop there.
Jayden Gonzalez
Pretty much this.
It´s (mostly) all about calories still. I´ve gained weight on a 23/1 intermittent fasting. It is no problem to eat calorie-dense foods in a single setting to a degree that you could gain weight.
Colton Howard
>Not planning a fucking god tier massive feast every day >Not absolutely destroying the gym with a PR of 10 000 000 000lbs squats and then going home to fuck your petite gf >Not enjoying the rewarding feeling of cooking your own based meals with fresh cuts of meat, good vegetables and spices.
