The "healthy food keeps you fuller" meme in my experience is just that - a meme.
I don't feel full five seconds after finishing a healthy meal I cook, yet I can eat two double hamburgers with the same calorie content in five minutes and stay full for hours.
Veeky Forums, is there any recipe you can eat like fast food?
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You have to break free from your fast food addiction first imo
Recurrence of appetite isn't really linked to meal content as much as it is to meal size. Also, you're thinking of immediate satisfaction vs long-term satisfaction. If you want to be healthy, you're gonna have to learn the difference.
To give an incredibly simplified version of what's happening, there are two main hormones in your body that regulate appetite and satiety - ghrelin and leptin, respectively. When your stomach is empty, your body secretes ghrelin to tell you you're hungry. When your stomach is full, your body secretes leptin to tell you you're full. Your body is able to tell whether your stomach is full by way of specialized stretch receptors in the stomach.
So, part of the reason that people say 'healthy foods keep you feeling full' is that, generally speaking, healthy foods have a much lower calorie/volume ratio. So, you can eat an entire bucket of spinach, and stretch your stomach to the max, for the same calorie cost as a few spoonfuls of oil (basically straight fat), which doesn't stretch your stomach at all. For every two of those double hamburgers you eat (~660 calories), you could also eat almost 9 eggs (at around 75 cal/each), or almost 3 full chicken breasts (about 700 calories).
The other point to note is that another regulator of ghrelin secretion (and therefore hunger) is blood sugar. Sugary/starchy/fatty foods tend to raise your blood sugar quickly (and give you that immediate rewarding satiety), but they also tend to be removed from the bloodstream quickly as well. Your body will compensate, obviously, but this is what leads to the rapid 'sugar crash' and feelings of hunger after not too long.
On the other hand, a good balance of protein (ideally ~30% of intake), complex carbohydrates (ideally ~50% of intake), and fats (~20% of intake) will require longer for your body to process into glycogen and triglycerides (the go-to energy storage of the body), and therefore keep your blood sugar stable for longer.
There is a difference between eating 500 calories of fiber and protein vs 500 calories of sugar and simple carbs, you fucking retarded faggot, nobody gives a shit that you are so retarded you can't cook and are forced to go to mcdonalds for food
Eat a pound of lean chicken and a pound of brocolli and tell me you're still hungry
bodyrecomposition.com
the "healthiness" of a meal doesn't correspond to its macronutrient composition; OP wants to eat with a normal macro ratio, not 700 calories worth of spinach or eggs. 9 eggs, by the way, by themselves, aren't very satiating, unless feeling sick to your stomach for about an hour is supposed to be a form of satiety.
OP, I'm on a restrictive (restricted roughly to "healthy" foods) cutting diet currently, in which each meal has a reasonable macronutrient ratio and plenty of fiber. My experience accords with yours: I find a 600 calorie meal composed of, for instance, steamed broccoli, roasted chicken breast, and roasted sweet potato (roughly 50g protein, 11g fiber) to be no more filling (and I think less) than a 600 calorie meal composed of, say, skim milk, a quest bar, and a donut.
Lets say you were to substitute the fries for some home cooked brown rice and some veggies.
Could you eat a big mac with those things everyday and be perfectly fine? Hamburgers are not a bad source of protein.
I'm still hungry, in fact just eating a dickload of chicken breast and not much else gives me a stomachache.
>For every two of those double hamburgers you eat (~660 calories), you could also eat almost 9 eggs (at around 75 cal/each), or almost 3 full chicken breasts (about 700 calories).
I can barely put one whole chicken breast in me before I stop being able to eat, yet I still feel hungry.
This guy gets it. How do you get full?
I'm not trying to pretend fast food is healthy, I'd love to eat 100% healthy foods. And I eat a pound of spinach and kale a day to get my micros (which also don't fill me).
You get full by eating high fibre foods and drinking lots of water.
My 20g fiber green smoothie doesn't fill me for shit.
You sound like a fat fuck with a mental problem.
I weigh 155 lbs.
Try reading the whole post next time, dipshit. I list the recommended macro balance in the last paragraph. Obviously you're not actually eat only spinach or eggs.
And I read the "research paper" in the article you posted. It's a piece of shit with a sample size of six overweight men that only compares salivary cortisol (which is a stress hormone that has nothing to do with energy or appetite lol). The basic macronutrient composition is almost the exact same between all groups, so no shit there's not gonna be a difference. Oh, it also does mention that the healthier meals lead to a decrease in LDL (bad cholesterol), so not sure if that's what they were going for.
The rest is just anecdotal garbage.
>I'm so full I can't eat anymore, yet I still feel hunger.
What you're describing is no longer 'hunger.' It's dependence. High-sugar/fat/salt foods tend to lead to an increased activation of dopaminergic reward pathways ("pleasure pathways"), since, evolutionarily speaking, these foods were both rare and valuable energy-wise. You're addicted to shitty food. That's why you crave it so much, and why actual food doesn't satisfy your 'hunger.' It's not about hunger at that point. It's about your fix.
getting full doesn't have much to do with satiety; this is why high-fiber diets don't make you want to eat much less than do moderate-fiber diets
Satiety is stimulus-dependent; this is why everyone always has room for dessert. You can take advantage of this fact by eating meals composed of foods that taste roughly similar to one another (savory, salty, or sweet); you have one sweet meal, then one savory one, rather than one whose flavors change course to course.
I keep from overeating by drinking lots of carbonated water between meals, and taking my diet one meal at a time.
If your issue isn't just hunger, an urge to eat, but rather pangs, eat sugarfree jello, fat free whipped cheese with sliced strawberries, or a big bowl spinach and anchovies (bell pepper, onion, and goat cheese optional) mixed up with balsamic
one could easily eat a "junk" meal with a macro ratio along the lines you suggested; it would be no less, and it could well be more filling than a "healthy" meal with the same ratio--this is the point: even if macros determine satiety (which they don't), this doesn't give us any reason to prefer healthy meals over fast food meals with comparable macros
whipped cream, rather
I don't crave it, it's just the only thing that makes me feel truly full. Unless I'm pressed for time or with friends I'll never eat fast food.
Maybe it's the adderall desu.
I'll give the jello a try.
>I can barely put one whole chicken breast in me before I stop being able to eat, yet I still feel hungry.
You body is so badly conditioned that if it doesn't get a large does of simple carbs and trans fats it doesn't even know its eaten
kys
my experience is similar to OP's, and I've eaten quite strictly "healthy" nearly all my life--I don't think it's a matter of conditioning
Again, read my last paragraph. You're no longer talking about nutrition or satiety, you're talking about psychological dependence. I never said macros determine satiety. I actually said the exact opposite in my first post. If, all other factors being the same, you find yourself more satisfied with the salty, high-saturated-fat-content, simple-carbohydrate-laden junk food, then it should be obvious that the cause isn't related to the actual nutrition involved. It's the salt and fats and simple carbs activating dopaminergic pathways in the arcuate nucleus and nucleus solitarius/accumbens that lead to an experience of satisfaction and satiation. Receptor downregulation due to chronic stimulation leads to tolerance, and in turn you can no longer achieve the same level of satisfaction from normal, non-stimulating foods. It's almost the exact same mechanism as drug addiction.
Trust me. I know more about this than you do.
Again, psychological vs somatic. Read above.
I eat a chicken breast and a boatload of broccoli for lunch 3-4 days a week. I don't "want" it when i start. But by the time I'm done I have no interest in other food.
>this
Used to do this meal all the time. Does not fill me anymore.
people don't read your whole posts because you try to cover up your tenuous grip on nutrition and behavioral psychology with jargon dumps, and it makes you look dumb!
the thesis to be disproven, you'll recall, was that healthy food is more filling than unhealthy food
from the OP:
>The "healthy food keeps you fuller" meme in my experience is just that - a meme.
you've given us reason to believe only that unhealthy food isn't more filling; but if there's no difference between healthy and unhealthy food for the sake of satiety, then we're free to pick whichever we like!
also, there are plenty of possible, non-macronutrient-sensitive mechanisms that could explain a satiety advantage of unhealthy food over healthy food, if there is one, other than addictive conditioning; we might, for instance, just be conditioned to feel more full from eating extremely salty foods--this makes perfect sense if you think that extremely salty foods are bad for you, doesn't it? do you see how this works?
noice, congrats on the bulk
My smoothie has 750 kCals, 54g Protein, 31g fiber and 37g of fat, over 3/4 of which are poly- and mono-unsaturated. I drink it to break my fast at around noon, and it keeps me full until about 4.
What the fuck are you putting in yours that makes it so pathetic?
My green smoothie only has about 300 kcals. Just a counterexample that lots of fiber doesn't make you full.
I have another bulk shake from 700-1000 calories that fills me decently, but doesn't have much fiber. What's in yours?
Holy shit. You're arguing my point, again. Fine. I'll dumb it down.
Three main kind of food. Protein, carb, fat. Protein just protein. Carb can be simple or not-simple. Simple bad, lots of sugar, little variety. Not-simple good, more variety, more nutrient. Fat can be good or bad. Saturated bad, make blood full of fat, make heart not work good, make body full of cancer. Unsaturated good, make blood less full of fat, make less cancer. Junk food have more simple carb, more saturated fat.
Body feel food-happy two ways. One, big-meal-good-blood-sugar body happy. Two, bad-junk-food meal, make brain happy.
If three main food type in equal balance, big-meal-good-blood-sugar body happy mostly same between healthy and bad junk food. However, bad junk food usually have more fat, more carb. More fat, more carb mean more energy per food, so less food for same energy. Less food mean small stomach. Small stomach mean less food-body happy. Also, more fat/carb mean less good-blood-sugar happy. Make hungry again sooner. Bad junk food also have more saturated fat, more simple carb. Make heart, blood, organs unhappy. Make cancer.
Brain-happy happen with bad junk food. Body like salt, like fat, like simple carb. Many fathers ago, salt/fat/simple-carb hard to find. Need to find to live. So, body decide to make brain very, very happy when find these things. Make feel more satisfied. However, now salt/fat/simpe-carb easy to find. Now people eat too much. Now they hurt body, heart, blood pressure, kidney, make cancer. user free to eat bad junk food as much as want, and if in balance, probably feel as/more full. However, bad junk food make user live less long. Probably good thing. Keep it up.
Sorry use big word before. Me expect people discussing nutrition actually know nutrition biochemistry. But me forget reading hard. Understanding hard.
I'm very autistic about it, it's the same thing every time, measured to the gram.
>2.5 cups water
>150g frozen blueberries
>100g 2% cottage cheese
>31g vanilla whey
>28g whole flax seeds
>25g raw sunflower seeds
>25g whole chia seeds
>20g wheat bran
I love it.
oh god my sides
jesus fucking cringe, you've failed to defend any of your relevant points and so you've resorted to debasing yourself
why?
kek
God dammit, I'm high as shit and laughing like a retard at this. Good thing I have the house to myself tonight.
JESUS KEKKING CHRIST
sides gone
this is a good post
wew
I understood the jargon but honestly this writing style should be used for the sticky. Top kek.
Go to bed david mitchell. But really great post bro and great write-up up top as well.
that was very well written desu
just to add to your point the reason people feel more full from healthy food is because healthy foods are more protein heavy, moderate in carbs and lower in good fats, whereas unhealthy food is higher in fats and carbs and lower in protein
100 calories of fat barely fills the stomach, 100 calories of carbs slightly fills the stomach and 100 calories of protein fills the stomach the most.
He was just a child, user. A child!
fat is much, much more filling than carbs
add this to the sticky
This is the funniest and best post I've ever read on Veeky Forums. 1 hour later I'm still laughing.
thats because chicken breast alone is discusting... especially just oven baked chicken breast. make a stir fry or chicken fried rice or make chicken wraps by cooking it in a frying pan with olive oil.
no it isnt
go eat 500 calories of vegtables and then 500 calories of oil and you tell me which one makes you feel more full
Has anyone ever been so BTFO?
Please add this to the sticky.
i dunno, probably the one that's 90% fiber?
Go eat 500 calories of tortillas and 500 calories of oil then see, rofl. There was a study, I can't find it now, where subjects were stuffed after 900 calories of fat, meanwhile they managed to eat 7000 calories of carbs and could have kept going
Note to self: when argument is lost on Veeky Forums, repackage points in meme format
Criteria for meme success: use a silly voice consistently and make the post so long that people think upon reading it "the lad's actually going for it, fucking mad!"
or just don't be wrong
>hurr unhealthy food fine to eat!
post body faggot
They probably ate 7k calories of shitty carbs.
I don't believe anyone here could eat 7,000 calories of plain oatmeal.
7,000 calories = 3 gallons of cooked oatmeal
900 calories = 6 cups of cooked oatmeal
I am completely stuffed eating 2 cups of oatmeal (300 calories).
ok boyo, this feels like a poor life choice, but here goes
wow, it's almost like stuffed outmeal has a shitton of fiber and fat
learn what a macronutrient is
>thinks fiber is a fat
t. broscience
>eat mcdonalds
>be dyel
looks about right
trash bait
Not good
great one my dude
Nigger oven baked is the best. Boneless breast 475 degrees for 20 minutes is godly.
Put me in screencap please
This is gold user
i ate 4 chicken sandwhichs from Wendy's, 350 calories a piece
(one of them i ate it plain, no mayo)
so in total i ate about 1,300-1,400 calories. not happy, not sad about it. its been like 6 hours and i still feel full
That nipple hair is vile, why doesn't your chest hair meet it?
10/10 havent raged like that in a while
After lifting I realised how the super size me guy fucked up.
He was eating mcdonalds all the time and doing dyel levels of exercise.
You shouldn't eat mcdomalds all the time but even so not making use of all the food your eating to gain and power muscle is unhealthy.
You can eat large serving of mcdonalds all the time and still be ripped and healthy with lifting.