VEGANS BTFO

I don't take supposed they are a waste of money and an inefficient way for your body to use available nutrients.

Been thinking-why not just eat like a gorilla fruits, veggies and the protein dense insects that thrive among us.

Seriously not memeing you could live on that diet alone.

>Strawman
You say that like they were responding to you in particular. There are people who do believe it is unnatural, and you can assume those are arguments against those people.
That is, if you aren't a self absorbed vegan :^)

Yeah why not eat a bunch of bugs a lotta people do. Gorillas eat other meat besides beetle meat too but still insects might be the cheapest protein out there.

>If humans weren't meant to eat refined sugar, it would literally be poisonous to us. You could literally murder someone by sneaking a small amount of it into their food.
>Now, the QUANTITY we eat, and how we INCLUDE it in our food could be improved. But that's a separate issue.
That's what you sound like. And there's another piece of wisdom in that. Just because something is unhealthy doesn't mean you have to stop eating it. You can still indulge on it, but don't delude yourself into thinking that cupcake is healthy.

because animals have different stomachs and enzymes and shit they break down things differently.

Anyone who sees an animal eat anything and think they should because they're doing it a complete fucking moron

>VEGANS BTFO
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
>We can eat it, it is just detrimental.
Meme
>I've heard it argued many times.
And it's bullshit
>Just because something is unhealthy doesn't mean you have to stop eating it.
Meats not even the titular "unhealthy". This myth is a pseudoscientific meme pushed by idiots why know fuck all about science, biology or nutrition; and have and will say anything to justify and push their misinformation
>press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
>breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
>authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/
>saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>deniseminger.com/the-china-study/

What are you trying to prove here? You sound like somebody arguing with someone who agrees with you.

>You say that like they were responding to you in particular
I say that like they were responding to veganism. Just because some vegans are idiots doesn't mean you shouldn't be vegan. Think of it this way: Mark Rippetoe unironically advices weak males to consume about 2500 kcal daily from whole milk, and a total of about 6000 kcal. That is idiotic advice, but it doesn't stop you from drinking say a glass every morning.
Another example inspired from :
Many meat eaters say "my canines though", but don't acknowledge how we have terrible canines, even among herbivores/omnivores: take a look at a gorilla's (plant based but eats a tiny bit of meat) canines, or a hippo's canines (100% vegan, among the longest canines in the animal kingdom)

You can keep attacking weak arguments from dumb vegans and think you've "won" (hint: that's the definition of strawman), or you can swallow the red pill, realise that eating meat is unsustainable in regards to deforestation and GHG emissions, acquire some empathy for vulnerable sentient beings and at least reduce the consumption of animal products, by making substitutions where it doesn't affect your pampered taste buds. For example, rice or pea protein are perfect substitutes for whey, most sweets like cakes or ice cream have vegan alternatives that taste and feel just like the dairy versions, order a falafel wrap instead of a burger every now and then, etc. Things like that.

Oh my god, finally. I was worried you had a heart attack, you took way too long to show up. Don't scare us like that man

>empathy for vulnerable sentient beings
That's the gayest thing I think I've ever read.

I'm definitely not disagreeing with you but Chaos and Pain is honestly a terrible source to try to back up your claims with user.

His next response will be: "but it links to studies!"
m.liveleak.com/view?i=46e_1322945068
>I am such a manly testosterone hairy balls masculine male man that I totally hunt 100% of the meat I eat and totally don't buy prepackaged, precut and preground meat from a factory far away from my eyes and ears. I also wear denim boxers, shave with a rusty box cutter and trim my pubes with the lawnmower because I am a manly man. Huge hairy balls.

>Just because some vegans are idiots doesn't mean you shouldn't be vegan.
Nor does it mean you should
>You can keep attacking weak arguments from dumb vegans and think you've "won" (hint: that's the definition of strawman), or you can swallow the red pill, realise that eating meat is unsustainable in regards to deforestation and GHG emissions, acquire some empathy for vulnerable sentient beings and at least reduce the consumption of animal products, by making substitutions where it doesn't affect your pampered taste buds. For example, rice or pea protein are perfect substitutes for whey, most sweets like cakes or ice cream have vegan alternatives that taste and feel just like the dairy versions, order a falafel wrap instead of a burger every now and then, etc. Things like that.
You haven't given anyone a reason to go vegan or to convince people who know what their talking about that they've "lost" and to take up your pseudoscience rooted meme diet. How you 'feel' because you'd rather nutride a pseudoscientific fad ideology doesn't mean anything
It never matters how long or not it takes me to show up to you, it's not like you read what I post before your spout ignorance and shitpost anyway.
It's a good primer on vegan/vegetarian history and ideology and the pseudoscience behind it; and includes sources. It does it's job well enough.
>His next response will be: "but it links to studies!"
It does. You might want to try reading them,.

is this thread b8? I never heard a vegan say "eating meat isnt natural".

lmfao, random ass claim pulled out of your ass

This guy gets it.

Meat is tasty fuck off vegans

>You haven't given anyone a reason to go vegan or to convince people who know what their talking about that they've "lost" and to take up your pseudoscience rooted meme diet. How you 'feel' because you'd rather nutride a pseudoscientific fad ideology doesn't mean anything
Wrong, you retard
>realise that eating meat is unsustainable in regards to deforestation and GHG emissions, acquire some empathy for vulnerable sentient beings and at least reduce the consumption of animal products
There is more where that came from:
vegansociety.com/go-vegan/why-go-vegan
In b4 biased, your blogs are biased too and they link to studies
>pseudoscience
TIL the world health organisation and the American dietetic association spout pseudoscience, but CHAOSANDPAIN.BLOGSPOT.ISUCKDICK doesn't
>it's not like you read what I post
Oh I'm sorry, here:
lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
Pinpoint a single source here, I must have missed them

>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html

is this the guy who shoved a banana up his ass?

How about I choose what's optimal for my health then, instead of bowing down to your world view?

enjoy your poor cardiovascular health and a wide array of digestion track issues.

Can you all agree that people should eat more of a plant-based diet and less meat/dairy?

Who is this trap?

not him but I will you limp-dick faggot

"no"

i am doing texas method and judo 5 nights a week senpai.

i tried eating like 70-80% veggie diet and could not keep up with recovery. Also brutal amounts of shit and farting. I still eat a lot of oats and beans, but meat is necessary for easily accessible proteins and calories.

yeah, and at this point, its indisputable. The less animal products you consume the less health complications you will have later in your life. If people wanna eat a steak everyday, more power to them, just don't try to claim healthy or doesn't increase mortality

Hey vegans, why is your healthy diet lacking essential nutrients? Doesn't seem very healthy to me.

Maybe some people. Some people eat McDonald's every day doesn't mean I can't have a couple of mcdoubles on a long road trip. Doesn't make my lifestyle unhealthy.

>doesn't increase mortality

Sitting increases mortality.

i think veganism can be healthy short-term with supplements assuming that they actually eat fruits and vegetables and not just taco bell minus the meat and cheese and oreos.

A varied diet is the best.

people are already eating a "plant-based" diet lmao

i think it's funny when vegans/vegetarians don't even eat vegetables. it's in the fucking name of your diet.

missing the point lmao

>more
try reading the post before shitposting

yeah, meat isn't that great for you. maybe grass-fed/organic beef is better but still not great.

>Increase mortality
The mortality rate is 100% unless your a bog bro but they aren't human anyways. Of all the reasons to vegan this is actually the dumbest one, but vegans cling to it because it's the only part of their ideology that has even an iota of actual science behind it. Btw there is no wide meta analysis study that has properly accounted for rise in caloric intake overall, decrease in physical activity overall, and increase in sugar intake overall since WW2. This would go a long way into explaining why blue zone people are able both consume meat (fish too) in moderation and live a very long time. All the blue zone people tend to leave active lifestyle including traditional farm labor activities (except the 7th day Adventist one) it is not a simple subtract this get that equation.

and since we no longer need to eat meat and are an advanced life form that does not require needless torture of others, we should be vegan/vegetarian

>we no longer need to eat meat

We don't need to suck dick but it hasn't slowed you down.

>it's the only part of their ideology that has even an iota of actual science behind it

besides the part where you opt out of unnecessary torture and killing of other creatures

that part doesn't need science you dolt

couldn't care less about animal rights, i just don't want heart disease/colon cancer

yeah better replace that wild sockeye salmon sashimi with fritos, that'll make you much healthier

epic post friend!!!! i'm also 14 and haev just discovered le random board

So eat chicken then. It's obvious there's more to it than what you're letting on because you're equating all meat together. You're either being disingenuous or ignorant.

Vegans are deficit in b12:

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329

Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:

m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/6/1032.full

Vegans are deficient in omega threes:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323085

Vegans are deficit in carnitine:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2756917
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928

You discovered /lgbt/ and it was far from random.

i do eat chicken every now and then, i even eat beef from time to time but most of my diet is plant-based

Vegans are deficient in taurine:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3354491

Vegans are deficient in iodine:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354

Vegans are deficient in Coenzyme Q10:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873950

Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11269606

Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19103647
m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2346.full

Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35465
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/

Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127.abstract
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772
m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49

Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

Then why are we even having this conversation. You're like a Catholic girl.

>Your feelers about life and death don't equal science
See this is why people think vegans are stupid. Your argument is a moral philosophic one when I said science. If you'd like I can bytfo there too because there is nothing morally wrong with killing living things inherently and agriculture is a far cry from torture and in fact comfort of the animal leads to higher rates of production and quality of product.

Is this a chicken-and-the-egg scenario? (no pun intended)

Does being vegan make you more likely to be beta or does being beta make it more like you choose to be vegan?

Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4067152
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8005079

Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874810/pdf/canmedaj01383-0052.pdf

"There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788369

Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137939/

"Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/

These next five are case studies:

Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25076673

Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8442642

Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244

Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3948463

"We report the case of a 7 month-old girl that presented with acute anemia, generalized muscular hypotonia and failure to thrive. Laboratory evaluation revealed cobalamin deficiency, due to a vegan diet of the mother."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18293883

Why not take it to an obvious conclusion? Why not just end your life if the goal is to do as little harm to other lifeforms as possible?

because even with all its deficiencies veganism is still better than the average american diet.

You're not a vegan though.

Vegan athletes use steroids and other stuff as well and have to use supplements and fortified foods. If the vegan diet is so good then why is all of that required for it to "work"?

You don't need to eat fat as fuck meat, which is a relatively new phenomenon. People never used to finish their animals on grain or corn, it was too fucking expensive. They ate lean grass fed meats.

Listen to this old German

youtube.com/watch?v=advtISqFpac

No vegan says eating meat isn't natural. It's the fucktards that make appeal to nature fallacies that do.

>Our ancestors ate meat!
>We grew through time eating meat!

Our neanderthal ancestors also died at like 30 years old, appeal to nature fallacies = retarded.

Kek. Good question! Hasn't he thought of all the abused Chinamen making his electronics? Why doesn't he protest their industry and abstain from that?

but i will defend veganism for the most part

>Average American diet
What even is that? That's a straw man if I've ever heard one. Lol how do you define that exactly?

>Our neanderthal ancestors also died at like 30 years old

That was mostly due to our fucked up teeth and the numerous problems that can arise from them. Not to mention these stats are always skewed because they include infant deaths which bring the average down.

fast foot and tostinos pizza rolls?

There's seriously not one single legit reason for eating meat.
inb4 muh convinience and tastebuds

Is your argument "veganism is better than eating yourself to death"? Or are you saying "veganism is easier than eating a healthy balanced diet"?

what exactly is a healthy balanced diet?

Please take the time to reply to as many of
I'm more than happy to never eat meat again if you can disprove that it's unhealthy not to

Eat whatever the fuck you want and keep your opinions to yourself

Lol average frat boy diet≠all Americans. America is so large and so diverse that any attempt to create an "average diet" wouldn't probably represent very many individuals at all unless you distilled it down to something generic like just macros but this isn't a great indicator of dietary health overall at all.

I suppose in the simplest terms, and there may be a better way of phrasing it, but the correct amount of calories, nutrients and vitamins

>Creatine
>B12
And it tastes good which is subjective but hey so is half the shit you're about to spew I'm sure.

There's a lot of conflicting research in terms of the health effects of a vegan diet. In my research I've come to the conclusion that it is optimal for health. If you're curious, I would suggest watching some lectures or reading works by Dr. Colin Campbell, Dr. Caldwell Esselystyn, Dr. Neil Barnard, Dr. John McDouggall and many more. These doctors have used plant based diets to not only prevent but also treat chronic disease in their patients including cancers.

I don't want to get into a PubMed link debate because I dealt with that the other day. However, let's assume for convenience of the argument that vegan diets really aren't more healthful than a standard diet, okay? Even so, it is still unethical and horrific for the environment. Animals have a capacity for suffering and exploiting them in inhumane. I'm not trying to make appeal to emotions i.e. MUH ANIMALS. But watch Cowspiracy if you want to know more, it's fucked up. (I don't know why you would want to consume the meat of an animal that exists in it's own shit anyhow, but that's besides the point.)

Also it's been estimated that animal agriculture causes more global green house gases than all of our cars. As well as being completely unsustainable in the long term considering how much water and grains we use to feed said livestock.

I forgot humans had the same brains, stomachs, livers, kidneys, intestines, lungs, etc., as chimpanzees.

can i get an example?

you are a fag

Not an argument.

Sure, a little research will get you some nice results. If you want to avoid mistakes like veganism in the future, feel free to check out the dozens of sources in this thread stating how unhealthy it is.

agreed

Can you dispute the frankly more in detail links and resources in this thread contradicting your opinion?
Also do you care about insects if we move on to those as a source of animal meat?

>What's that? You have a brain tumor? Just eat lentils and soy.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, lentils, leafy greens, whole grains, dairy, eggs, chicken, fish

Just because you saw a few videos of animals in distress doesn't make it the industry standard or common occurrence at all. Comfort of the animals leads to larger yields and higher quality but unfortunately life isn't perfect so situations arise where animals are in distress. I couldn't make the argument that cities are wholly bad because homelessness exists. A vegan monoculture agro economy would be more harmful than the one we have now. It would leave little room for co2 sequestration and because plants are so calorically light it would take an increase of worked arable land to a level that doesn't even exist on Earth.

Insects or guinea pigs would probably be the most efficient source of calories. We don't live in a dystonia nightmare though, so having fulfilling, satisfying food is okay.

In terms of insects, I mean I haven't personally ever really thought about that. But we buy our food at grocery stores now. Unless you're in a survival scenario you don't need to eat meat. If you were in that scenario then yeah! Eat meat so you survive! But we get food from stores, no need. As for all those links I could go through them but that's going to take a lot of time and effort and I don't feel like getting into a PubMed debate.

Strawman fallacy. Look up their work, John McDouggal has a part of his website where his clients show results.

>drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/stars/

bad diet and unhealthy lifestyle = higher chance of dna being damaged during replication process and creating cancer cells

Oh, you mean from his personal web site that also serves as a way to advertise his programs and shop? Looks extremely unbiased to me.

>what exactly is a healthy balanced diet?

Her ass. Seven days a week

Quite a bit of difference between TREATING the cancer and eating in a way to minimize your chances of getting it (which is largely genetic, by the way)

It's the result of his prescribing them a plant based vegan diet. Either way, generally speaking vegans have lower BMIs than meat eaters and have less health problems.

Closest living relative and we diverged 13 million years ago. That's a lot of meat eating.