5/3/1 is way to low frequency! What's another option after Texas Method?

What do you mean? Thought it was a 4 day split with every lift ones.

Isn't 8/5/3 just 5/3/1 with more reps? I need frequency, lifting heavy twice a week.

...

That's too low frequency for me.

Bulgarian method

rofl, he will die.

Read this and set up a routine based on it
breakingmuscle.com/learn/4-secrets-of-soviet-weightlifting-as-revealed-by-pavel
But if your max front squat is only 100kgs you need to stay on Texas method because youre fuckin weak ad shit

Nope, not at all. Wendler's shit sucks.

It's a version of Starr's H-L-M where the 3x a week are Heavy, Light, Medium, and the adjustment can be made by percentage or by exercise choices.

For example, if you were Squatting 3x then the first might be the one that sets your progression at 3xN (where N=reps), the second might be 2-3 sets of N reps at 80% of the first, and the third might be 90% weights. You might even do something "Cowboy Method" with the Squats, like 5x5 Monday, Front Squat on Wed, and 1x5 Friday.

For Bench, you might do 5x5 Monday and 1x5 Friday and do an OHP on Wed, or do a Close Grip or Board Press for some reps on Wed.

For pulling you might do Rows/Pullups/Cleans/Snatches or similar for the ligher and medium days, and you might put the Dead on a day other than Mond just for convenience.

The 8-5-3 version is a rep range rotation. 3x8, 3x5, 3x3, but all sets are the same weight across so no pussy ramping sets like Wendler uses where the top set is the only set that counts. Usually Rip likes 1 top set for Deadlift though.

Try this with 8-5-3 rep rotation for your main lifts.
> Mon: Squat, Bench, Weighted Chins. Add accessories to taste.
> Wed: Front Squat, Close Grip Bench, Deadlift. Add accessories.
> Fri: Squat at 90% of Monday weight, Board Bench, Pendlay Rows. Add accessories.

Can somebody redpill me (aka give me a serious, througout answer) on 5/3/1 and why is it supposedly not good?
I've read an article on SS blog but the guy was comparing an old version of 531 to TM.
I am still doing my second month of SS, but I'm already looking for a follow-up routine.

Should I go directly to PP and read it in advance or skip it and pick up one of the 5/3/1 books instead? If so, which one between 5/3/1 (2nd ed), Beyond 531 and Forever 531?

I might do something like the Cowboy Method since it's available on StrengthStandard. I want to change to low bar squat, but not give up on front squat complety. I'm just kind of confused of the program.

2suns

It's not a shitty program, just low frequency. Most people can recover in 48 to 72 hours, so no point in resting for a whole week.

The barebones version kinda is but that is solved with FSL and joker sets.

Pic related, read it.
IF you double up on main lifts by picking TWO main lifts to do each day (like Squat and Bench, and Dead and Press) while STILL working out 3-4x a week (ergo progressing through a cycle faster),
AND if you use the old "Option 2" percentages (which were tougher than the weak-assed shit he proposes now, and appeared only in the 1st and 2nd editions)
AND you use a REAL training max instead of that pussy 90% so you're not getting extra reps by the half-dozen,
THEN it's not half-bad. But those changes above pretty much reverse most of the things that Wendler fucked over from the old BFS program, which is encapulated in pic related.

Personally I would skip Wendler's shit entirely. He's a fucking money-grubbing ripoff artist and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he were jewish, he certainly has the spirit. If you get his shit, pirate it for sure, don't give him money.

Practical Programming 3rd Edition is actually worth paying for, although it is available to pirate. It has a wealth of different program choices for intermediates, I mean literally over a half-dozen pre-written ideas and stuff to help you design your own, and stuff on Olympic weightlifting programs from beginner to advanced.

Why are you doing meme lifts?

Hepburn

Run it 2 days on 1 off, or split each lift to its own day and go everyday

If you go everyday, add lighter work on the other lift after pump work. A quick 5x5 at about 60-65% adds up when you're hitting something every other day in some fashion. Just keep the percentage managable and it'll help recovery

Yeah when your ripoff of BFS sucks so much that you have to totally change how you do your main exercises working sets, it kinda means that your initial program fucking sucks and people should have just been doing BFS the whole time.

I should have added above, skip the "deload" part of the cycles he puts in.

in beyond 531 he basically makes you do ohp after bench and bench after ohp on their respective workouts

contrary to what wannabe powerlifter faggots on the internet purport, front and back squat when studied are pretty much equally useful lifts

It's each lift twice per week, what's the problem?

Do nsuns 531, it's GOAT

I bought wendlers book. It's basically 1 page excel worksheet with a bunch of pictures of his faggot ass and discursive ruminations on bullshit. I did program for like one month before I even got out of "deload". The gains were bad, shit program.

SS is legit the best book I've read on fitness. I marched my 5 rep max on squat from 325-405 with Texas method with no deloads in 4 months.

I have seen you posting your screencap in every 531 thread in the last few weeks.

Well maybe I'll still look for the latest 531 books, to have a rough idea, but since I have loved reading SS I'll definitely go with Practical Programming.

>Pic related, read it.
And what's the critics? Only "5/3/1 is ripoff BFS"? So what? SS is ripoff Bill Starr.

it's a shame Cody Levefer's GZCL never gets plugged on here, such a great resource and programme framework

SS is a good book with a lot of good lifting cues, pictures, ideas.

Wendlers is a one page excel spreadsheet with his selfies included.

>Squat and Bench on Monday, Clean and Dead On Wed, Front squat and CGBP on Fri
Retard, this is still one lift per week

I only recommend this for people that actually like lifting weights* though, if you don't it will be "too boring" and "too hard" and you will get "burnt out".

* assuming you are oriented towards powerlifting

I have Beyond 531, it would be so much better if he had hired a professional proof reader to fix his shit layout.

SS is shitty low volume ripoff football offseason peaking program.

Can I do his beginner programs?

>Practical Programming
>low volume for upper body
>decrease volume if you stall
>"""practical"""
>"""programming"""

If you are talking about the one contained within the app, it is a good idea to run it to acclimatize to this style of training, yes.

It's a low frequency general strength routine that is more useful for football athletes than for someone training for general strength.

And even then, Juggernaut is better.

Madcow
Simplicity's isn't bad

Is nSuns nowadays the most used template of 531? Even more than BBB?

simplicity isnt bad but ridiculously low volume is.

fuck madcow.

Sheiko is amazing but it has no OHP which I find absurd

You can do OHP in deadlift day instead of incline bench presses

It's a powerlifting program.

But sometimes it will also say something like "Delts", when this occurs you are free to do shoulder presses.

Sheiko has more volume of accessory lifts than it does of main lifts.

Just convert a few of the suggested accessories to OHP. There's almost always a "Chest Fly" or "Chest" for 4x8 or something 2-3x a week, make those OHP.

I'm looking at the small load spreadsheet right now and if you replaced all presses with OHP you will only OHP a whopping 3 times in a span of 8 weeks.

I think unless you are specifically going for powerlifting Sheiko really isn't the way to go. It's too focused on that aspect and not enough general strength,

I would highly advice against this, dumbbell flies are really really good for preventing pectoral issues.

It is along with french press, good mornings (especially seated) and back extensions one of the accessories I would not change under any circumstance.

Do more warmups
Do more cardio
Do more mobility
Do more reading
Doing a lot of volume is stupid desu

none of these things do nothing to compensate for low volume
>Doing a lot of volume is stupid desu
DYEL? as your training level goes up, you have to do more volume in the long term.

strongerbyscience.com/increasing-work-capacity/

Regardless the points remain
> there is MORE volume of accessories than there is of main lifts
> there is plenty of opportunity to replace some of them with OHP and work in at least 2 OHP sessions a week

With benching 3-6 times a week, treating an overhead press as a main lift with such high frequency would get very, very tiring quickly.

But Sheiko doesn't bench 3-6 times a week.

It benchs at most 3x on the 3 day versions, and many times those benches are replaced with other lifts in the lighter bench week, like incline etc., or close grip, or board bench, etc., versions with the range of motion restricted, or with chains, etc.

On the 4-day version, it almost never actually benches on the 4th day of the light week for bench. Same deal, lots of substitutions. THe 4-day version averages just over 3 bench presses (conventionally done with full range of motion) per week.

Also, weren't you the guy saying that you NEED the 4x8 Chest Fly on pretty much every Bench day? THAT doesn't get tiring?

Also, I never said to make the OHP a main lift, I said to use it as an accessory a couple of times a week, by replacing some of the YUUUUUUUUGGGEEEE volume of accessories (more volume of them than of the main lifts) with OHP.

But if someone wanted to make it a main lift, they probably could, simply by making every other bench session an OHP session that repeated with the same percents and including an OHP session in the skills test week.

I like 5/3/1 though

Sometimes you have double days, IMO these count as double frequency as you are really performing two full workouts in one day. I also don't count board pressing, incline, CGBP etc. as separate, those are all specific to improving your bench press.

And those chest flyes are to be done with light weight, they are primarily intended as prehab and to improve coordination.

Double days don't count as double frequency, they're really not terribly higher in volume than the regular days. Certainly nowhere near twice the volume of the regular non-double monday.

Also, double days on bench don't occur all that often, usually only on the Monday of the heavy bench week.

Finally, all the variations of bench may be specific assistance to bench, but they are NOT full bench presses and are NOT as stressful to the shoulders because of that, they use different ranges of motion which stress the shoulder less (incline, board) or use different amounts of loading which stress the shoulder less (chains).

And FWIW the OHP is often described as a great exercise to increase your bench.

WRT to the light weight, FUCKING DUH. Sheiko is an exercise in light weights. He specifically says of ALL HIS ASSISTANCE EXERCISES to keep them several reps away from failure. This includes the Dips and other stuff he has in several of the spreadsheets.

PREHAB lol. That is EXACTLY how many coaches describe the OHP in relation to the bench. Rippetoe is probably the main one you'd be familiar with who does describe it that way. And flys really work the coordination lol.

nb4 stretching, people can stretch their pecs statically in less time than it takes to do one set of flys, much less 4.

My idea of replacing some of that accessory volume (again, which is more volume than all the main lifts combined) with OHP would include the same low RPE rating of work.

And, re

Why should I not count this as "double frequency"? They would both constitute a full-worthy bench session in most other programming.

And sure, I'm not decrying OHP as an accessory, I just wouldn't substitute it for chest flyes. Though of course as you say, if you're not too concerned with powerlifting you could do as you say and include an overhead press progression, it's just suboptimal for the purpose of powerlifting as the bench press is such a technical lift.

I like the Texas Method. I think unless youre very, very advanced or want to compete PL or OW you dont need anything else.

To me TM seems misunderstood and I dont think you need to follow the program 100% for it be effective. TM is more of a template rather then a traditonal program. You can do it in many different ways and still get top results. Whats most important is that you get right amount of reps on each exercise per week. Instead of more traditional programs where you do volume for some weeks, then go heavy and finally train light before you test your max, you can instead cram all this into one week. This makes it very easy for to train how you want to train every session without being locked into a certain schedule. I do it like this:

A:
25-35 reps on each of the exercises at ~8 PRE. It doesnt matter how many sets or reps per sets you do as long as you do about 30 reps per exercise. You can go 3-4 sets of 10s or do 10 sets of 3-reps. It doesnt matter and thats whats gr8 about TM.
I usually do 8-10 sets of 3 reps. I also add in 3x5 or 5x3 sets of 8 PRE Pendlay Rows. I usually do 1-3 sets 8 PRE of whatever bicep exercise i feel like doing as well.

B: I usually follow the program except that I leave 1-2 chins in the tank on each set. I also do 3-4 sets on 3-4 PRE squats just to work on form. Then I go quite heavy on hamstring curls.

C: 3-7 reps on each exercise at 9-9,5 PRE. This day you can almost go as heavy as you want, but you probably shouldnt go higher then ~96% of your max. I usually do 2x2, 2x3 or 3x1. I also do the same as on monday in regards to adding some bicep work.

I do 1-5 sets of 10-12 reps on cable crunches every session as well.

TM enables you to lift how you want to lift. You dont have to sets of 5 every session and you can very how hard you go from session to session. Add weight whenever you feel like it and test your maxes every 2-4 months.

Stats:
>188 cm.
>85-86 kg.
>1,25/2,5/3/4
>12 chins 2,25 pl8 Pendlay
>Liftan for two years

PS: Make sure you pick weight, reps and set so that you can use the same rep range for each set. Dont vary the rep ranges on a single workout.

Except you can mechanically load more weight for a back squat, making it more useful than the front.

>genetics won't let me get big
No you're just fucking retarded. Do you even realize how muscle is built and how to train them properly or do you just do the same shit programs everyone else does.

doing super high volume was the best thing i did, just was a brutal 2 months adjusting

GZCL is yet another variation on crap that works in general, ie. you just need more volume.

Do heavy shit. Backoff and do more reps with a lighter weight. Do accessory work that supports the heavy shit.

It's not rocket science, but the garden variety autist balks at effective hard work.