Important reminder for novices

>the 5x5 setup is too much useless volume for a novice
lol

Both programs are shit tier

Daily reminder that SS is useless shit, ripoff offseason football peaking program.
Look at Alan Thrall, typical SS lover - 10 years of training, bodyweight 230 lbs, bench press - 275 lbs.
With how long Mark Rippetoe has been around, how much he writes, ho well looked up to his is, etc etc, I still don’t know of a single lifter he has trained.

Ideal program for beginner:
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/
Monday
Hi Bar Squat 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Bench Press 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Deadlift from 3” Blocks 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Chest Supported Rows 4×10-15 Reps
Walking Lunges 2×12 Steps
Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted If Necessary)
Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps

Wednesday
Front Squat Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Widegrip Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Cable Rows 4×10-15 Reps
Leg Press 2×10-15 Reps
DB Incline Bench 2×10-15 Reps
Good Morning 2×10-15 Reps

Friday
Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
RDLS 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Lat Pulldowns 4×10-15 Reps
DB Step Ups 2×6 Each Leg
DB Military Press 2×10-15 Reps
Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps

Saturday
Box Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Closegrip Bench 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
One Arm DB Rows 4×10-15 Reps
Goblet Squats 2×10-15 Reps
Incline Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted if Necessary)
Good Mornings 2×10-15 Reps

How exactly do I work out what weight I should be using with SS, just keep adding more plates until I reach my 5 rep max?

test your 1 rep max, then take 75% of that as your starting point for the 3x5

unless you are a complete beginner who hasn't ever done the lifts before, then you should probably start with just the bar to learn proper form before doing that.

What I did: On the first day, do the bar x 5. Keep adding 5 or 10lb til you can't do 5 reps. The last weight you could do 5 reps with good form is your starting weight.

SS is great because its low volume and simple movements allow beginners to smash through it 30 or 40 minutes, recover and come back 2 days later. The best thing about it is that its a quick, easy, rewarding way to establish a habit of going to the gym 3 days a week.

This seems correct.

The first 6 months don't have an major impact on the 10+ year perspective. If you are a noob, just learn the major lifts and follow a LP program of your choice.

Neither.
Do Reg Park 5x5
Higher volume, plus it has a decent progression in terms of adding exercises as well.

SS is a better program with better tapering.

the BOOK SS is an amazing resource, and one I advocate everyone buy even if you don't intend to ever do a rip program because you don't like squatting 3x a week. Its the only exercise book that is full of very good explanations for the main lifts (except the power clean, his power clean kind sucks tbqh).

I've bought arnolds book, completely worthless. I've bought wendlers book, worse than worthless.

SS is a very good book and should be on your shelf.

>leg press

what's wrong?

They are literally almost the same fucking program jesus christ

Firendly reminder that if yu are training for aesthetics/girls/boys you should avoid all the Nx5 barbell programs like the plague and start with a PPL + proper diet to cut/bulk depending on your first goal.

Sounds good. Just because I work a pretty intensive manual labour job so I like to assume I have a decent base of strength and don't want I waste weeks with really light weights..

Not really the best option imo
Do a full body routine to learn the lifts/improve work capacity/ get used to working close to failure.
Hop onto UL/PPL once you've built up some work capacity and decent technique.

I had a guy I know make me a 5 day split.

Thing is, I dont know how to do most of the exercises and the trainers at my gym dont give a fuck.
I just feel like an autist wondering if I do shit right.

Wouldnt SL be better for me? All I want is strength and size.

lmao

dudes lazy

If they read the sticky they would know this. That one link to an SS variation there includes both dips and chins with added arm work later.

OP here.

SS works for novices because novices don't need to learn 2342 different exercises to hit muscles at all angles. They just need to stick to the main 4 or 5, perfect their form and gain strength through those. but at least do that efficiently!

It's better than SL for OP's reasons above.
Not a mystery it's been used by thousands of people to train their strength from scratch.

I wasn't nor this must be bait.

read the book.
you use empty bar or min weight until you get the form right. then you start adding weight til the bar considerably slows down. that'll be your first workout.
so if you're strong enough you can theoretically start from whichever weight suits your current strength status.

>Wouldnt SL be better for me?
Dont do SL !!!
If you want strength and size just do SS then, that's what's it for.

Last user you replied to here.
Thing is, I am weak af and empty bar squats are still going to be a struggle, so why not go for SL?

What else is bad besides the slow start?

Thoughts on Greyskull LP?

Pic related

see

just because you don't understand programming doesn't mean that post was bait

hard to believe i know, but reading SS and practical programming for strength training does not make you any kind of authority, and you have a lot left to learn before you start giving out garbage advice

Thanks, so much shit posting in this board.
Gonna start my 2 month SL program now, wish me luck.

>waste all your newbie gains

that's not how 'newbie gains' work you dumbass. they aren't time limited -- they are the point at which you no longer easily put on muscle, which is determined by your genetic makeup.

>this must be bait.
Are you pretending that you know how lifter should train better than real coach Chad W. Smith? Why it's bait, retard?

An off the cuff history of 5x5 and why you don't want to do either SS or SL:

>The first reference to 5x5 one can find is in the material of the BAWLA and head coach Al Murray. 5x5 was used as a short term 'breaking in' plan to condition an athlete to heavier lifting, or recommended as a peaking plan prior to stabalizing the weight during competition for athletes
>5x5 gained popularity through Reg Park who used it as his routine of choice. However, it isn't 5x5 as you know it. Park used 1) 5x5 across, 2) 2 wu/3 work sets, 3) 4 prog. heavier sets with one lighter back-off pump set. He performed these with much more exercises than you are used to per session and trained six days per week. (Using the classic BB approach of centering workout A around bench/squat and workout B around an overhead/pull. Park's routines would make the geeks who never even break a sweat resting 5 min during SS/SL 5x5 shit themselves.
>SS developed from the work of Bill Starr. Starr used it as a temporary peaking program for high school football players. The purpose of his 3 day per week 5x5 (Max/80%/90%) was to attempt to get high school football players back in their 'strength groove' before the start of a season.
>Ripptoe ripped Starr off. The 'Phat Ass Lover' actually produced a decent program for anyone who reads the book and didn't start it after reading an infographic on 4shit, but made the serious error of rotating A-B bench/overhead. If Ripptoe actually had ever pressed a weight of note he would understand that presses need more than 3 sessions per week. It should also be noted that Ripptoe has never trained anyone of note and the BB advice he gives is a monumental joke.

>oh, muh SS aka 3x5 is so hard!
>what this? high volume fullbody 4x time per week?!?!??!?!?!?!

[cuntinued]

>SL, by contrast, was cobbled together from poor internet reading of SS. The Arab (or 'Mystery Meat') who dun wrote it has little experience, knowledge or even ability (he is weak af [as fuck]). However, SL is hugely popular because of his clever 'bugman' marketing ability: it appeals to shut in autists, got in early on phone app software, attracts gaymers, etc etc. SL has never produced strength or body of note because the Arab completely misunderstands strength and BBing.

We get it, you hate those routines.
You gonna give any begginers advice or just share c/p?

yeah fuck off
starting from the bar is the best way to prevent you from becoming a quarter rep retard like 95% of your gym
it's an infinitely better alternative than hitting 2pl8 squat and having to deload 30kgs to take care of your exploding knee syndrome

>hate routines
Are you stupid?

>You gonna give any begginers advice or just share c/p?
Poor blind guy, you even can't see article CONSIDERATIONS FOR BEGINNERS in this post that was written by professional.

Are you going to help anyone or keep on shitposting?

If not SS/SL then what?

If you're already fairly physically active, your DL/bench will probably be pretty decent. Mobility/RoM/form on the squat will be the thing to watch out for.

>tons of good routines in internet
>5/3/1 for beginners, juggernaut, WS4SB, Lyle McDonalds, Arnold Golden 6, Candito's LP, AllPro's, etc
>U TROLLING?!?!?! WHAT DO IF NOT SS?!?!?!

The thing is that you could go for any program you want, 5/3/1 Greyscull TM whatever. The thing is that SS/SL ect focus on linear progression (LP) meaning that you add wheigth for every new training secession.

If you were to choose an non LP routine you would "waste" time on lower weights that you would just blast through on an LP.

An by this time we know this is you Mark, no one would shill this much for SS but you.

Not copypasta.

For anyone chasing 'strength':

>SS should only be used for 'off season' work, i.e. when you need to scale back training or require a rest from real training. If you want to build big strength around the PL 3, Jamie Lewis' Destroy the Opposition (based on old Olympic WLing styles of training), Wendler's 531 and the work of Doug Hepburn are brilliant programs that can be started from day 1 of lifting.

For anyone chasing a body:

>You need to understand that it's all drugs, you are unlikely to ever get over 180lbs cut without drugs, and that the training is completely secondary to drugs. However, if you want a 3 day per week 5x5 you are recommended to do Reg Park's 5x5 that's over 9 months or google Bruno Sammartino's routine on David Gentle's website. Both have everything SS/SL lack for BBing and will put meat on you that lasts when you're off the drugs.

The difference is negligible and only noobs think it matters, when the only thing that matters is that you stick to almost any program at all consistently. Like many people you haven't even read the programs and don't know that SL too turns into 3x5 pretty fast.

Then suggest them on the fucking thread you retard, if someone cant know SS is bad how will he know AllStar is good?

this

Me again. Stick with it for as long as it takes, not just 2 months, you will be surprised how much "noob-gains" you have in you.

>The thing is that you could go for any program you want, 5/3/1 Greyscull TM whatever. The thing is that SS/SL ect focus on linear progression (LP) meaning that you add wheigth for every new training secession.

The only kunt who would comment on this is a 3 week newb to da pogrom.

Consider the typical lifecycle of a nerd who hands over shekels to the SL Arab and buys into linera progression:

>unathletic dweeb on 4shit starts Overhead Pressing on SL
>Starts with da bar
>Doesn't notice how shit the Arab's advice of 2.5kg jumps are, omission of microplates and only 3 OP sessions every 2 weeks
>"Horey sheet! I'm progressing great session on session!"
>4 weeks later>
>"Why have I stalled at 32kg? Better deload 5kg like the Arab says..."
>Two months later:
>"Damn! This is hard! I can only press 37kg... Better start back at the bar."
>Three months later:
>"Help me Reddit! I did SL, can't press a bag of potatoes and my ass has got really fat!"

To anyone who has gone through shit like the above, start 531 or Jamie Lewis' pogrom or Hepburn's pogrom now. 'Stabalizing' sets across the month with a weight increase in the second or a rep max test before upping weight will make you a lot stronger in a year than buying into the bolloccks of neverending linear progression like the SL Arab tricks you into.

Based on your posts, Im starting to think Mahdi is an undercover Jew who doesnt want the white man to get fit.

Or, SS/SL for say 3-6 months, and then 5/3/1.

You will be stronger and progress faster. 5/3/1 is to slow for a noob that don't have the CNS connections to do proper compound exercises

I do a modified SL and literally the only difference there is with how I would do SS is that I do Rows instead of Cleans

Why is there an assumption that Linear Progression is best for novices?

Why wouldn't progressing the reps/volume reap the same benefit?

For example: start with 3x5, then increase to 3x6, 3x7, 3x8, then 4x6, 4x7, 4x8, then 3x10, then move the weight up?

Most people eventually move on to volume routines after SS/SL anyhow.

>5/3/1 is to slow for a noob
It's a fucking meme, die, retard. PROGRAMM DOES NOT PROGRESS, ATHLETE DOES

>Why wouldn't progressing the reps/volume reap the same benefit?
Because too much stupid kids think that you progress only if you increase weight on the bar

Hey I'm not on either side, but isn't it true that you might as well hit a pretty linear progression for the first couple of months and then when you stop progressing for whatever reason, then you just move to something like 5/3/1?

In the strength/BBing world always assume there is jew behind every corner. You may have heard Weider made Franco dress up like a schoolboy and imported Arnie as his Germanic plaything, but even Sandow was 'mentored' by the gay Prof. Attila.

>SS/SL for say 3-6 months

Even that's got serious issues as a pogrom. Consider again the Overhead Press/Bench:

>3 sessions every two weeks ain't enough work to increase numbers little past what your current max is
>2.5kg jumps will have your unathletic, un-tren'd, newb - i.e. SS/SL using dreg - stalling and stalling hard quickly
>5 reps ain't some magical shit that will teach 'technique'. In the old Olympic Weighlifting world they taught technique by having newbs do 6-10x3 at 85% average. This will benefit a newb a lot more than starting with a bar for 3 months. Coincidentally this is similar in thought to 531, Jamie Lewis, etc.
>As a beginner fitness program it's the shits: the old BBing 1x12 across 10-12 movements will get an untrained person fitter, more mobile, and more ready for actual lifting than 5x5 SS/SL. (Google 'York Beginner Programs' for examples.)

I could go on, but dats da main sheet.

Yeah lets waste time repping out 45 pounds for 3x5/3x6/3x7/3x8/3x10 for 3-4 weeks and them add 5lb instead of fining your 3x5 "max" with LP and then do it.

I think Jeff Cavalere (Athlean-X on YT) said to do AMRAP every set.

But that guy's probably crazy, so I'll stick to just doing 3x5 because I worship numbers.

>For example: start with 3x5, then increase to 3x6, 3x7, 3x8, then 4x6, 4x7, 4x8, then 3x10, then move the weight up?

That is betterfor newbs and was how progress was recommended commonly pre-1950s. (Though it's still in the York programs past this.)

Doug Hepburn's programs follow a similar format and are extremely good for it. His 4-10x1 one will increase someone's max very quickly. His 5x3-5 one is equally good.

> If you follow SL, you will have to start with an empty barbell on all exercises and add only 2.5kg

I've been doing SS, but I only add 5lb each session. Is this wrong? I'm a skelly weakling btw. I'm at 60lb press, 105lb bench, 120 squat, 135 dead lift. Should I be eating more and adding more each time or something?

Also I don't really understand how under-lifting would "stunt" gains.

Even AD's novice program is better than SL

5lb every week is fine, at the beginning you should able to add 10lbs every week but as the weight gets heavier then you can only add 5lbs
If you're already in a surplus, you should eat about 50calories more each week

>and add only 2.5kg at each session
You know you can add more if you want right.You don't even have to start with the bar if you don't need to. You can change the numbers.

>5 reps ain't some magical shit that will teach 'technique'
No, but its heavy enough to build muscle, and light enough to not completely snap shit up. Then i agree that some stick way to long with the LP

>commonly pre-1950s
Yeah and knowledge has not changed since then.

>Yeah lets waste time repping out 45 pounds for 3x5/3x6/3x7/3x8/3x10 for 3-4 weeks and them add 5lb instead of fining your 3x5 "max" with LP and then do it.

In pogroms like this you start with a rep max or percentage. With #x1 ones it's 90%, x3 it's 80, x5 it's 70.

As a beginner you would get this by picking up a recommended weight, say 30kg [kilograms] for the press, repping it and then sticking the number through a 1 rep max calculator. You would then be advised to take 10-15% off.

Reading this you may suddenly understand why 531 and the shit i recommend is better than the 'linera progression' bolloclks of SL:

>You aren't stuck using babyweights in the pointless search for 'technique', which comes - anyway - from lifting heavy shit. (The groove on a 5rm is completely different to the groove on a 1 rm.)
>Instead you are lifting heavy for you weights from week 1 and are using 'stabalizing' sets across a month, refining technique, that are much better than bar-starting SL
>etc etc etc

But again, what about us weak fags who can only handle the bar?

>Yeah and knowledge has not changed since then.

My opinion is that training methodology has REGRESSED:

>whore-moans broke da world in the 1950s
>whore-moans meant all 'training' is secondary to drugs in making a body
>whore-moans meant that strength training was completely turned upside its head: suddenly heavy, heavy singles weren't just something you did once a month, they became every day occurances
>whore-moans and the effect they had on minimizing previously working training methodologies meant that 10x12 Joe Weider inspired 'bicep days' became core principles of exercising

>what is AMRAP sets in 5/3/1?
Retard, with 5/3/1 you can progress every time you do the lift

If you know your "true" 1RPM, you have no place in doing a LP. Then you know enough technique to not do a LP.

But for total noobs that have too figure out how to hold a BB and is not sure how to put on the weight on the BB, then you do a LP.

I have a skelly friend and he started SS and I started PPL at the same time and I look better than him 3 months in, he also constantly complains about his back hurting.

You can only Overhead press 20kg?

>1.Start Overhead Pressing 3 times per week
>2. Start with dumbells. Use a single and aim for 15kg.
>3. Get microplates to work as an inbetween weight. You will get more out of a LP pogrom doing this, you will stall hard if you don't. (PROTIP: get 0.5kg ankle plates and us those).
>4. Move from SL after 3 months. Never do it again.

That not what he said thou
>start with 3x5, then increase to 3x6, 3x7, 3x8, then 4x6, 4x7, 4x8, then 3x10, then move the weight up?
That's not a AMRAP set

>My opinion
Not an argument.

If you think you not becoming stronger when your 5rm becomes your 10rm, you are stupid.

I said nuttin (on colored bitches) about a true RM. I said a newb should pick up a designated weight, do as many reps as he can, and then pick a 1rm using a calculator.

Coincidentally, this is how pre-1960s training worked, but instead of a machine giving you an estimated 1rm an member of the WL cclub would. 'Start with da bar' would have been laughed out of the building.

I even heard Tommy Kono once raped a man for suggesting a newb needs to start with the bar.

Of course you fuck face, but imagine that you found your "true" 5RM and made that your 10RM instead of lifting baby weight.
>Look mom when i started i benched 60 pounds for 5RM and now i do it for 10RM

You've been sold a bill of goods by an Arab (SL) and a man with an extremely overt fascination in big boy butts (SS).

It's completely clouding all of your perceptions and rational sense.

The only thing that will save you is learning Russian and a years study of Yury Vlasov's auto-biography.

Ok I get it, I think that if you don't have to start with just the a bar then don't.

But a LP is good for pushing you out of baby weight and increase your weight. I know way to many people that just picked up a weight and rolled with it for weeks, instead of progressing.

meant for not

Fine but he probably he's stronger than you.
When he's done with SS he can decide from a neutral point what kind of physical activity he wants to be involved with, if at all.

You, instead, know already that you want to workout for aesthetics.

I don't see what's the problem here.

ITT: confusing rank novices who don't know shit about anything with percentages and xRMs.

My AS (anti-semitic) opinion cites examples of how analbolics have distorted training methodology in BBing/WL to the point where we now have silly, underthought, routines that only exist because we live in an age where drugs are uber alles and allow a kunt to get away with any old shit as long as he ups the dose.

Consider the [Soulless] Chinese [Bugmen] olympic weightlifting team. The were a complete non-entity in WL with no culture/grounding in the sport. Then they developed the best state sponsored drug program we have seen since the fall of East Germany.

Consider also - we live in an age where Pavel/Ripptoe repackage basic shit from the past and make millions from reselling it. Why? Because no one has any idea of hwo to train anymore because whore-moans changed da world.

Pavel you say?

But if they took that weight and upped it to 5x20, they are still making gains just as if upping the weight 5lbs but staying at 3x5. In fact, they are probably getting better hypertrophy and recovery.

we are in the same boat famalam

I'm not retarded and I eat and sleep a lot on my rest days so I modified SL to a program that fits me better

been seeing really good results desu

I workout M W F
everyday I do

5x5 squat
5x5 ohp
5x5 tbar
5x5 bench
then on Monday and Friday I do 2x5 diddlys

after that I have a snack then go into accessory work

strength and big 5 have gone up and my body had stayed proportionate

So who is stronger?

Does he look better than he used to though?

What's the accessory work?

typically my accessory work consists of aesthetic stuff

everyone should incorporate bi and tris into every program

depending on what's sore I'll either do
- arm work (bis tris and forearms)
- calf raises (everyday, calves can handle the beating
- ab and oblique work (typically Wednesday bc that's when I'm not deadlifting)
- extra chest work (flys, incline, dumbbell, landmine, dips)
-back work ( lats or pullups, [traps everyday bc just shrug the weight])

and some other stuff I might be forgetting

I don't do all those everyday, I let my body tell me what's good to go and what's not

Nice, I'm similar
I switch between 3x5 and 5x5 on OHP and Binch everyday
But I do a little bit shitton of accesories like chins dips curls(lel) etc.

I do a fuckton of accesories, I'm in the gym for like 3 hours

and you gave me a thought, I might have Wednesday be a 3x5 day once my lifts get pretty high

Not even seeing one argument for why SS is bad, subpar maybe. But the principle of getting to intermediate lifts and finding a new program is the same as basically any other.

>probably he's stronger than you
Probably not, because on PPL you do much more volume which you can turn into high intensity in something like month. And will do SSfag? He already peaking strength, he has no potential. Muscles = high volume = strength.

what about texas method for a novice (getting back into lifting after a 3 year long break, to be more precise), if I'm on a slight caloric deficit and can't progress that fast?

How long did you workout last time? I would almost suggest SS/SL/GSLP to weight up fast and then after 3 months switch to 5/3/1 or a PPL