WHAT IS WRONG WITH VEGANISM?

>Haha I contributed nothing to the discussion what has my life become :(

%
>No
Yes. What's the ultimate goal of veganism? To reduce human-on-animal suffering as much as possible. The only and final solution is the eradication of humanity as a whole since it's physically impossible to live life without harming another organism.

it's not 100%, but it's almost all. i've lived with someone who was a true vegan and her life was ridiculous. she'd carry around a piece of paper for her own use that said, amongst other things, which ingredients in pills were derived from animal products. so we're talking a few mg of animal products, here. (she was frequently taking pills because she was so sickly.)

absolutism is not tenable, but i've yet to meet a vegan who'd rather that three people halve their meat intake than one person be converted to veganism; yet most vegans imply through their actions (by making exceptions, like with pills) that gradations do matter

This.

>You sound like tumblr haes fatties making excuses
it is objectively harder and more unpleasant to be a vegan than a vegetarian. the question is whether the cost of being within ε of being a true vegan is worth the benefits. if you're incapable of reasoning at the margin, you might be a brainlet, m8

I really hope you're intelligent enough to see the absolute irony in your post.

Wow this is one of the shittiest bait threads I've seen in a while.

GJ OP

>What's the ultimate goal of veganism? To reduce human-on-animal suffering as much as possible.
As much as possible and practicable*
Eating meat is simply unnecessary to sustain life, but you still have to eat something and that something is going to affect someone's quality of life.
But if you want to lead by example, you can kys.

That's not veganism, that's vegetarianism.

>the question is whether the cost of being within ε of being a true vegan is worth the benefits. if you're incapable of reasoning at the margin, you might be a brainlet, m8
Who says I'm not
Go vegetarian then
Hell, keep eating meat but cut it out from Mondays or from the odd or even days of the month
It's still a net benefit
Again, you're arguing vegans, not veganism
Go semi vegan of whatever
You don't have to label yourself vegan and go to the point where you avoid a pill because it may have gelatin on the exterior that may have been sourced by an already dead animal's bones
Just make some substitutions wherever you feel it's not inconvenient

vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism

Yeah as soon as you introduce the word practicable it stops being veganism and starts being vegetarianism because now there is no actual difference.

>Well I could go out of my way to buy cruelty free clothing, but that's like 30 minutes out of town. Not practicable. Teehee.

it looks like you're trying to argue with me but you're just restating what i wrote ("the question is whether the cost of being within ε of being a true vegan is worth the benefits") at length

You're confusing practicable with practical (=convenient) but anyway, again, you can just go vegetarian if vegan is too hard

Not arguing at all, I'm just putting your own words into perspective
Ok, don't go full vegan. But maybe you could give "a little vegan" a try

Both are just vague terms to let people be able to say their vegan whilst not actually practicing veganism.

>I'm eating meat because eating another food is currently not practicable
>But yeah animals and people are totally equal

...

Enjoy your tapeworms meat cucks. What happened to Thou shall not kill? It is scientific fact that blood and carcass are not essential but in fact detrimental short and long term. Yes you should be supplementing with creatine and protein powder but you are already doing that anyway.

>my argument got fucking pounded like the pussy bitch it is, ITS BAIT HURHURHURHR

You're worse than the "I was only pretending to be retarded" people.

If the idea that people are equal to animals and therefore people should not cause harm to innocent animals in anyway then practiceable/practical cannot be apart of the definition because it totally invalidates the belief.

>Yeah man, blacks and whites are equal but y'know I don't want those niggers drinking out of my water fountain so it's not practicable.

Now this is bait.

You're clearly trolling, so you got called out for it. If you continue to act like a lot little bitch I'll be forced to report you.

Edgy mate. Keep going with your cognitive dissonance.

Moral absolutism doesn't have a lite™ edition.

If you eat meat you have parasites.

I'd let you fill me with parasites big boy

i'm vegetarian and a majority of my meals (when i cook for myself) are vegan

i'm not implicitly arguing against approximating veganism. i just think, at a minimum, people ought to be consistent in their beliefs and actions and find the point at which the costs outweigh the benefits. there's clear evidence that people don't do that, e.g. that people are dishonest with themselves: many people think it's ethical to eat lamb, but that it's not ethical to eat (free-range) veal, when there doesn't seem to be any meaningful ethical distinction between the two

i think if people were honest with themselves, we'd see a lot more vegetarians

(if someone has fully reckoned with meat production and eats meat, or if someone hunts their own meat, then they're at least being consistent and honest. it's respectable. and all this skirts the difficult questions, like whether moral truth is coherent, objective, etc.; whether vegetarians have an obligation to persuade others; etc.)

I do agree that pet ownership is actually quite inconsistent with veganism,

but, it also isn't necessarily because people "love animals", the reason I can't see myself ever eating meat again no matter how much I enjoy it is more because firstly I don't need to (even for gains) and so I don't an animal to have to die for my taste pleasure

the difference with dogs etc is that they generally have to eat meat, unlike us

Your mom

Nothing. The only people who will tell you that veganism is shit is people who eat animal products.

>The only people who will tell you that Hitler is shit are Jews
>The only people who will tell you that Jews are shit are /pol/

People dont go anemic from meat diets

People don't get heart attacks from vegan diets

You're right my soy goy, eat your vitamins

Nor do they get heart attacks from meat based in diets. They get heart attacks from over consumption (And yes, you can increase your chance of heart attack on vegan diets with high fat food). Try again

You're wrong, but I'll try again
People don't go anemic from vegan diets either, you just have to eat your dark greens and lentils
>But a girl in a newspaper article 6 months ago had low iron
Anecdotes don't count. An acquaintance of mine was borderline anemic with red meat 5x week and lentils 3-4x week
Iron absorption is genetic and red meat (read: heme iron) isn't a panacea to fix it. If you have a medical condition you should get a supplement prescribed. If you are shit at planning diets and expect to sustain yourself on fruit and pasta you deserve to die. Nobody eats bacon and McDs for the iron content

Kys

Being vegan does not = eating soy.
But for the record if you're worried about hormones you're not going to increase your estrogen by eating soy. The only studies that shows a increase of estrogen when consuming soy involves eating over 10 blocks of tofu a day, who does that?
Also milk and meat raises your estrogen way more than soy will ever do so I don't see your argument.

No? You've never had your doctor telling you to seize a vegan diet even after eating lentils and heavy spinach intake. While anemia can happen naturally via genetic reasoning, vegan diets can also cause it regardless of how much lentils someone eats. My family is prone to very low red blood cell count and both sister and mother are on iron pills and still have to eat red meats to produce a normal iron content in the blood. I know people who specifically were told by their doctors that they could not handle a vegan diet. So while your mayoclinic red pill may have gotten you vague hypotheticals you still dont really know what you're talking about.

People can go anemic from strictly vegan diets

Also telling me anecdotes don't count then literally saying a story about preexisting anemia that has nothing to do with consumption caused anemia. The IRONy

Doctors also tell you that squats are bad for your knees. That doesn't mean squats are bad for your knees, it means that most people will fuck it up because they don't have the discipline and patience to learn proper form and programming so it's safer to not do them
Same with a vegan diet. Meat is a safety net, not a panacea.

You are extremely good at missing the point, bravo

Irrelevant strawman to poison the well. When you have no idea what you're talking about, blame the doctor!

Remember kids, friendly vegan online knows whats better for individual cases than a trained professional who analyzes diets of patients. You equated people with grossly over consumption of fast food to all people who eat meat, sit down before you hurt yourself

>user said P ≠> Q, so he obviously also meant ~P => Q
Does that seem stupid? That's because it is and you are.
Need help? Substitute P for "meat consumption" and Q for "anemia cure"

I get it, you're upset that someone doesnt agree with you and you're looking for a way to relate with your limited information you've looked up. All I stated was that people can go anemic from a vegan diet. CAN. Not will. Not always. This thread asked whats wrong with being vegan (something I don't really care that someone does) and I presented a problem that is very real for people I know and people around the world. If you're seriously suggesting that pills are a replacement for extremely rich hem-iron meats that is a problem with veganism itself because you're creating a need for pills over natural food. The fact you're trying to defend a confirmation bias just makes you look like you're grasping for reasons to defend your choices. Chill dude

>stated was that people can go anemic from a vegan diet. CAN. Not will. Not always.
You really don't see the irony here, do you?

I never once said meat is the cure for anemia. I was saying that certain people are unable to get the same amount of blood iron content from non-heme iron as they are with heme-iron. If the choice is natural food or pills due to preference of diet, that presents a problem with veganism for some. Why tear apart a simple statement when you incorrectly said people can get heart attacks from meat diets and not vegan diets? You're embarrassing yourself. Don't pretend to be the bearer of truths for people's arguments when you dont even use correct ones yourself

You wont become anemic from switching to a red meat diet. There is a possibility if you switch to a vegan one. That's all my comment in was. As for your heart attack comment there surely is zero vegan foods with saturated fats, right?

>moral
you do realize that we are just a machine of chemicals and every animal is a machine of chemicals. the pain you have because you dont have a girlfrind is just some chemical response to your enviroment.

if a cow suffers nothing happened to the rest of the world. moral is what matters to you and honestly i give more fucks aber the lock on my door and the wellbeing of my cat then some kid in africa that dies of hunger or a cow that gets killed.

maybe think about what really matters to you. because if every life (chemical machine) you dont have any emotional connection to matters to you. you will have a pretty sad life.

>60606

Plants have no cholesterol and way less saturated fats
It's funny cause you take the extra mile to logic proof what you say but disregard the same logic and argument structure from others
At least your heart is in the right place and you aren't a shitposter
Cheers :)

It is socially difficult to be one in the western world. Lots of socializing revolves around food. Often times there isn't a vegan option.

If you're a conservative, you will be surrounded by crunchy granola hippy libtards.

Other than that it's fine. I would have had a hard time doing it in college. Now that I'm 26 and more established, eat out less and already have a partner, and care less about social consequences of being abnormal, it's pretty easy.

Way less, correct, but saturated fats are still saturated fats. In moderation is okay but in over consumption it is bad, which can be done with either meat, vegetarian or vegan diets. In order for the meat causing heart attacks statement to be true you would be taking into account that they are intaking an excessive amount of saturated and trans fats which may also be done with nuts, oils, margarine, coconuts etc. So to say that a meat diet is the only diet that can cause heart attacks is incorrect.

>to say that a meat diet is the only diet that can cause heart attacks is incorrect.
Exactly, that's why I never said that

see

I used 's exact wording. This is the irony I was referring to here.

Except that statement is wrong. People do go anemic from strict vegan diets. And people do get heart attacks from them too, the same with meat diets. The difference is people can't go anemic from adding red meats to their meals. We're going full circle here. Your statement was incorrect. My statement was factual

Now you're playing the word game to point fingers. This is childish, be constructive please

>moral is what matters to you
>i don't care about black people (they are just chemical machines, after all)
>therefore slavery, lynching, etc. is morally acceptable

if you're going to make a case for moral nihilism or a strong form of moral relativism, at least try to avoid making it ridiculously stupid

It's so frustrating. I have filtered "vegan*" to the top of my catalog out of genuine interest and good will to spread awareness, not proselytize or anything. And then there's wastes of time like you who genuinely make me want to punch a hole through the monitor.
>It's factual when I use my reasoning but childish when you use that exact same reasoning against me
It's frustrating because I am 90% sure from your way of speaking that you aren't baiting but genuinely think you're not only right, but infallible too.

I just hope that humans will get their shit together in a few decades. The statistics for dairy and non dairy milks (in western countries) seem promising.

Again, cheers.

I never came here to criticize vegans or people's choices. The post was asking if there was an issue with veganism, I presented one I, along with many others have experienced and vegan enthusiast on the internet looked it up and tries to be the devils advocate because he disagrees with it.
>criticism related to post is presented
>Posts completely irrelevant troll comment in same context
>stringing along with strawman arguments
>actually getting mad after fishing for a reaction

This is comical

> Being so regressive you compare the food chain to slavery and lynching

Vegans are usually scrawny, that's my only reason.

Inb4 a vegan posts some roided vegan bodybuilder. I get that there are exceptions to generalities but that doesn't dismiss the generality.

>Meat eaters are usually fat. Inb4 a meat eater posts an ottermode fag. I get that there are exceptions to generalities but that doesn't dismiss the generality.
OP discusses veganISM, not vegans

>>moral is what matters to you
>>you do realize that we are just a machine of chemicals and every animal is a machine of chemicals
>not recognising what follows from these propositions
>not recognising the difference between noting a stupid conclusion as a reductio ad absurdum and a sincere belief in the stupid conclusion

seek help

(fwiw, most utilitarians typically apply a sort of moral weighting that scales with sentience. they don't assert a total equivalence between all life. Singer types are fine with eating oysters, as they've no CNS, for example. the argument vegetarians make is that (1) it is more moral to not kill animals for their flesh than to not, and (2) the difference in the quality of life between vegetarianism and omnivorousness is minimal. you can think that (1) is false, if you want; you can think that animals aren't capable of suffering, or that farming is wholly humane, or that only the most provincial of concerns are morally relevant. you'd be in a small minority with a lot of idiots for company.)

(should add that Singer himself later disavowed the oyster example on the grounds that one can't be sure if they feel pain or suffer, and so one should err on the side of caution. oysters do have a nervous system. but it's minimal.)

Vegans

I never said anything about machines or chemicals Im just laughing at the
> s l i p p e r y s l o p e

it's not a 'slippery slope'. it's modus tollens. (i thought you were coming back to defend a bunch of stupid shit.)

>well if you justify killing animals what's to stop you from justifying SLAVERY
>literal definition of slippery slope
I thought swedes were cancerous

it's not, though. there's a clear distinction. modus tollens is not a fallacy; it's basic logic. the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy. if someone advances propositions that necessarily imply an absurd conclusion, then the propositions or roles of inference have a problem. it's clear that the propositions advanced by 'but we're all chemical machines and the only morally relevant concerns are those that are local to the moral agent' imply an absurd conclusion (for example, that genocides abroad don't concern the agent, so that genocide is not immoral)

why do i degrade myself by talking to retards

>why do i degrade myself by talking to retards
kek

I'm still cringing at the fact you compared animal byproducts to slavery. Don't worry, you're not alone. The confederates compared slaves to animals too

...

i made no such 'comparison'. it was deducing an absurd conclusion from stated propositions to falsify the propositions. you're being wilfully obtuse. i'm done, don't ever talk to me or my wife's son ever again

VEGANISM IS A LIE.

What do vehicles with petroleum-burning engines, and anything electric have in common? They're all powered by FOSSIL FUELS, which come from dead animals. Vegans aren't allowed to own or use ANYTHING that came from an animal -- therefore any so-called 'vegan' that drives a vehicle or uses anything electric is CHEATING and is NOT VEGAN. They may as well stop kidding themselves and go eat a steak, they all FAIL.