/fasting/ general - summer cut edition

>Previous thread
>FAQ

>BUT FASTING WILL CANNABILIZE MUH BICEPS AND ILL DIE

No, it won't. The biggest protein loss comes from (safe) secretions from your intestinal lining and pancreas, which tapers off as you continue to fast.

After a short burst of protein secreted from those organs (around 75 g of protein) -- your body will use about 20 grams of protein, that's about 20 days to waste an entire pound of muscle. Now compare this to the fact that you can lose up to 114 to 159 grams of fat a day and you got yourself a good ratio.

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22414/ ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26399868 Can I exercise while fasting?

You can, but not strenuously. Muscle ketone oxidation decreases after 1 week of fasting, along with decreased overall energy expenditure(page 144-152 of Burstztein S, et al. ‘Energy Metabolism, Indirect Calorimetry, and Nutrition.’ Williams & Wilkins 1989).

>How long is an optimal fast?

Depends on your willpower and bodyfat. Since you likely eat every day, you likely have quite a bit of fat reserves to burn. During fasts, soft fatty adipose tissue lipolysis is known to reach a MAXIMUM within the first week of a prolonged fast as does hepatic ketone production.

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5024045 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2656155 Who SHOULDNT fast?

Typically those that are too young, too old (unless you're old and obese), or have muscle wasting diseases.

Other urls found in this thread:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/
bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek145.htm
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3943438/
reddit.com/r/fasting/comments/4k9k9e/refeeding_best_practices_avoid_refeeding_syndrome/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Whoops,

"
If you exercise hard and push for PRs on a 7 day fast you'll essentially accelerate muscle wasting. Just do some light walking."

should be in the "Can I exercise while fasting" section

and the protein secretion section will burn 75grams of protein or so PER DAY for the first few days, then it tapers down to 20 grams of protein used per day.

>How do I not feel like shit during a fast?

Hunger will come in waves the first few days then get less intense as you progress.

I add over half a daily recommended serving of lite salt to a gallon of water that I sip on throughout the day.

I also take a magnesium supplement to avoid cramps.

If I ever feel like I'm getting acid reflux, I'll add a shot of apple cider vinegar to my autism jug.

I'm 3 days in, started at 198, currently at 191.

to the top

Fasting is moronic. Eat healthy food and move more than you sit.

That being said.

>I was once so poor i had $30 to my name.
>It was going to be 4 weeks until my next paycheck.
>I lost my place to live
>lived in my car with my akita in an abandoned parking lot
>spent that $30 on dog food
>I swear my dog knew I wasn't eating because she would wimper when I gave her food and wait for me to insist she eat it.

Post pics

I don't know if this is true, but damn

Wanna prove that fasting is moronic instead of baseless assumptions?

This happens every thread

>People say fasting is moronic, stupid, etc
>Doesn't provide a single shred of evidence
>Endless arguments ensue

Read the studies I posted. It's not moronic.

Post pics of what? My autism jug? My body?

It's not a competition against calorie-restricted diets, bro. Especially since those are technically a form of fasting as well.

Your before pic - don't tell me you didn't take one?

Are you still ignoring the evidence that has been posted? Obviously you haven't because I said DONT STRENUOUSLY EXERCISE during a fast. Why the fuck would I go on a 30 mile ride when I can burn MORE calories than that by laying around and fasting? You can preserve muscle and accelerate fat loss by fasting. Do you really think you're going to wither away and die after 7 days of burning through your own fat?

>The only people who can afford to fast are lazy pieces of shit who do fuck all but sit around playing vidya games.

Nope. Wrong again. I work at an office job creating video games and I was exercising 5 times a week before I decided to fast.

Some people think "fasting" can't work. Which is the most asinine statement possible.

That you just don't eat and stay fat.

yeah, that was just a repost of the old thread i made. I updated this thread's content to address concerns brought up in the old thread.
Yup.
Maybe when I'm not at work. I would prefer to post the final results. But I'm in good shape / not a fatty.

>"
>If you exercise hard and push for PRs on a 7 day fast you'll essentially accelerate muscle wasting. Just do some light walking."
Why is this? I heard working out while fasting was good, or are you saying just dont go for PRs?
General question for magnesium
Can you just take a ZMA pill at night? oF does that hurt the fast somehow?

Nigger why didnt you just steal food? You actually starved for 25 days???

You can take any vitamin and/or supplement that has no (or negligible calories).

>25 days with no food
What country do you live in that has no food stamps or churches with food banks?

So fasting is just skipping breakfast?

Can you still take a protein scoop when you wake up at least?

from my understanding, when people say "its good to work out while fasted" they mean "it's good to skip breakfast and exercise after not eating for 18 hours". they're referring to intermittent fasting, this is prolonged fasting (3 days or more)

if you expend more energy on a prolonged fast you're going to increase the amount of protein (and fat) energy expended.

as for the pills, as long as it has magnesium in it you should be good.

This thread more explores the merits of prolonged fasting (3 days or more). The benefits of prolonged fasting are significantly greater than IF fasting (If your primary goal is fat loss and general health, don't be expecting satisfying workouts / hitting new PRs on a prolonged fast).

No, some people just believe that the idea of weeklong periods of eating nothing is simply shit to maintain muscle.

Which is logical in every possible way.

Thats what i figured but considering everyone keeps talking about magnesium solo i was worried ZMA was out for some reason. Figure thats far superior cosidering zinc helps T levels and all that.
Ya I definitely want to continue to lift. Probably wont set any PRs but going through the motions will still benefit im sure.

The way you argue is complete shit. I literally addressed this in the main post. Either provide evidence backing up your claims or fuck off with your 9th grade reading comprehension.

You have posted 0 evidence. Your study is meaningless.
There are so many fucking shit studies out there, it's not even funny.

Link me a study over a large sample size that is controlled (aka test subjects are monitored throughout the entire day, they all have the same body composition starting out and none of them have any physical or mental condition affecting the study) that compares a regular caloric deficit vs water fasting in its outcome - who maintained more muscle - who lost more fat?

If you have those at hand, I will believe you.
So long you are just a retard that reads too much shit on the Internet to me.

gtfo ahmed

I've been working out like CRAZY for months. Seeing decent weight loss, and muscle growth. Know I need to deload and refresh anyways. Why not try a fast, one week, see what happens, and take it easy one week.

I'm on day one, and it's literally more challenging then going to the gym and eating. (I still went to the gym, did 8 half assed reps for chest and 3 reps, half what I would do, on a squat machine. I felt like a complete retard, but whatever.)

Muslims really only do IF, they only "fast" during the day. Most eat breakfast, skip lunch and eat a big dinner.

That's enough to appease their weird desert god.

lol you realize ramadan fasting means you can't drink water too right? thats retarded.
10,000 patients monitored fasting clinic

>"Short-term fasting can have a great benefit, but long-term fasting can have a geometric effect. So the farther you go into fasting, within the person’s capacities and reserves, the more profound the effect appears to be."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/

Did you have issues reading my post? You linked a study that reports the effects of fasting on sick patients.

What the fuck? I want to know how well they maintained muscle mass, I want to see how well it works for people with high amounts of muscle mass before the fast, I want to know how it compares to a regular caloric deficit in terms of maintaing muscle mass, I want to know how it compares to athletic performance during the cut, after the cut, ... .

You come on here shilling this fucking diet every goddamn day and the only thing I want you to post is sound proof that this diet works better for physically active, muscular people than a regular, proven, century long performed caloric deficit cut.

...

>Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine

Not that poster but if you need so many peer-reviewed studies to try it. Just fuck off and not come on these threads. I'm willing to bet you didn't require such high standards when you started lifting, running or doing partial-fasting (calorie restricted diet).

>fasting is better than CICO
Literally nobody but you is comparing the two.

Right, because it's exercised by the entirety of the fitness community since decades and everyone that has ever achieved something in fitness has practiced it.

Now you come here, on this board, and spam your thread making ridiculous claims such as that that you do not lose significant amounts of muscle mass when you eat literally nothing and expect people to believe that because you post a bunch of shitty studies.

You are probably not aware of this, but when you advocate something that is extremely far off the known values and ideas for a certain topic and also make bold statements about its effectiveness, then you do have the burden of proof on you.

90% of this board does bodybuilding and is interested in cutting methods that allow them to lose fat while maintaining the maximal possible amount of muscle.
Since decades this has been known as eating a small caloric deficit.

The way you advocate your google findings it sounds much like whatever you happened to come across is a lot more effective, while cheaper and easier.

you do realize i answered your question about muscle mass in the main post? i clearly state the amount of protein grams burned, and the amount of fat burned (which is insanely higher than the protein burn). you also burn protein on a cut, this just makes the process faster. there's thousands of studies that show fasting is muscle sparing / increases growth hormone release. i'm not shilling, i'm just sharing my experience.

>proven, century long performed caloric deficit cut.

Okay, once again you're not providing any evidence of your claims so I'll play your game.

Humans have been fasting WHILST being incredibly physically active for tens of thousands of years. A typical hunter a few thousand years ago would eat berries / veggies n shit, and occasionally hunt a boar every few days. There would be long stretches of no-food. Do you think they just died? No, their bodies adapted and they kept hunting.

First thing, I'm not OP.

Second, calorie restricted diets is fasting, you're making a fool of yourself.

So literally every bodybuilder out there doesn't know how to diet, right?
You know it better than they do?
Everyone with a name in the sport just doesn't happen to know about it.

And to get this clear, for everyone reading and arguing:
Your claim is that water fasting is both more effective in fat loss AND muscle maintenance than a regular, low caloric deficit diet.
Correct?

>bodybuilder
fasting is for fatties

>calorie restricted diets is fasting

... user

I don't give a shit whether or not you are OP, I am responding to the context of this thread, not single posters.

I am obviously talking about a small caloric deficit cut.
You want to tell me that this is the same as a water cut?

>Your claim is that water fasting is both more effective in fat loss AND muscle maintenance than a regular, low caloric deficit diet.
>Correct?

Lol, no.

It's easier and faster for fatasses, but if you maintain a constant clean diet, calorie restricted diets are better long term.

There is some evidence for bodybuilders to go on fasts, at least to cap a cutting phase:

bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek145.htm

>Water fasting is both more effective in fat loss AND muscle maintenance than a regular low caloric deficit diet

Yup.

"As these athletes create an energy deficit and achieve lower body fat levels, their weight loss efforts will be counteracted by a number of metabolic adaptations that may persist throughout weight maintenance. "

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3943438/

Your body will just adapt to your cut calorie count eventually. Whereas in a fasted state your body will not slow its metabolism down, and will consume your TDEE worth in (mostly) fat cells.

Then why are you even arguing with my - my entire point is literally just the comparison of the two.

Prefix your threads with the statement you just made and noone will come in here arguing with you.

The only reason these threads escalate into a shit show every time is because of the bold, unrestricted statements made in the OP.

Wow, thanks for the evidence from the article put together by Opiewags99, the expert on fasting. This is why there's so much stupidity on this board, people like you believe clickbait bodybuilding.com blogs as evidence.

>every bodybuilder does it so it's clearly the best
>bodybuilders do the other thing too
>WOAH GREAT EVIDENCE BUD

>Our forum members come together to share with you what they BELIEVE are the pros & cons

your opinion, and the opinions of the meatheaeds on bodybuilding.com are worth JACK SHIT. evidence is peer reviewed academic studies, fuck off with your low IQ and bloated physique

I just entered the thread to point out your shitty logic.

What you referred to as "evidence" in isn't evidence at all. I'm not sure what you're blathering about, you can just admit you genuinely thought a blog post from bodybuilding.com would prove me wrong, it's okay to be a complete retard sometimes. It's also okay to admit it. Don't be embarrassed.

Unless you actually think that opinions from bodybuilding.com posters somehow hold a candle to the dozens of peer-reviewed studies posted. But at this point you seem to be backpedaling out of embarrassment.

either you accept opinions of some meatheads as evidence or you dont

you (or someone else earlier in the response chain i guess) claimed that calorie deficit is best because people have been doing it for a long time, and then refused the 'evidence' of some people doing fasting as well because hurr durr opinions

Like i said in the fucking post you're responding to, I'm not I'm not doing intermittent fasting or on a cut at all, so please fuck off

> I'm not doing intermittent fasting or on a cut at all

So why are you here?

I told you, Why are you?

pointing out my shitty logic would be providing evidence that fasting is bad / unhealthy / whatever your stance is. i would like to see evidence proving that fasting is unhealthy. i do not like to waste my time looking at bodybuilding.com links. so if you wanna pursue the truth with me then great bro, let's do it.

i'm here because im 75 hours into a fast and my body is looking (and feeling) better than it did 75 hours ago.

i'm confused.

weren't you sperging out about it being unhealthy just a minute ago?

no... i was the one sperging about people not posting peer reviewed studies to back up their claims like "fasting is moronic and kills muscle!"

I love to fast and go on a 6 hour hike in a deep fast .Having fat to pull from makes fasting easy as fuck.I already went from 265 to 245 since the 13th and even though I know I lost water weight I can tell my fat is going away to.Ive taken diff bodyfat tests and they all say im losing fat and gaining muscle mass.To be honest a true fast is good for fat fucks so take advantage of that

>some discussion that i haven't read
>user claims that calorie deficit is da best because bodybuilders do it
>other user posts evidence *OF* bodybuilders fasting as well
>first user spergs out
>point out that either you accept both or neither, can't pick one side of the argument if it's the same fucking argument
>argue with you under the assumption that you're the first user

I was just commenting on the logic, I wouldn't listen to anecdotes of some faggots either. I fasted before due to homelessness and it wasn't that bad and didn't wreak any havoc on me. Seems good for fatties but not optimal for bodybuilders if their goal is just building muscle.

I just wanna be lean and Muscular without the aid of drugs

firstly:
what is the goal of the fasting? what is the endgame. is it pure mass loss or fat loss?

but whatever the goal the intermittent food intake regimens are better overall as you can do without the protein loss overall if you eat once in a while

also (I cant cite) but I think that the metabolic rate scales to some extent with the food energy intake... so if you fast the body burns less fat relatively to the intermittent shit

I'm just asking myself how often can I do a water fast within couple of months. Can I start again after 1 month?

probably depends on the length of the fast and your bf%

was 2 weeks and still have enough of fat. Need lose about 30kg.

you can do it as long as you're comfortable with it and as long as you're not sub 10% bodyfat.
>what is the goal of the fasting?

Depends on what you want. The studies linked in this thread and the last thread suggest that fasting has numerous benefits including accelerated fat loss, longevity, 'immune system reset' via autophagy, growth hormone spikes, better skin etc.
>so if you fast the body burns less fat relatively to the intermittent shit

very wrong. "food energy intake" remains the same, the body just pulls from your fat reserves as energy intake instead after you deplete your glycogen stores (typically after 1-2 days of fasting)

I would say intermittent fasting is a good practice between prolonged fasts if you keep your carbs under control.

If it's to lose fat and if you've been eating well for that past month i wouldn't worry and go for it again

just stop if you feel unwell

>"food energy intake" remains the same
I am pretty much sure this is wrong. You can chk it out the metabolic rate scales according to conditions, temperature, stress - generally, what you eat (carbs, fat, etc.) etc.

but I was trying to make the point that you can rip almost all the benefits of fasting with an intermittent regimen (as long as you dont eat much enough carbs to start converting it to fat you actually burn fat as primary fuel - your own or from food)
which is sustainable for virtually any life situation unlike the fast...

Who /5/2/ here?

>all dat free time during the week
>takes 10 minutes to get ready for work

Still feels weird not having any food when I come home to put in the fridge. Probably do this 2-4 weeks, then do random fasting to maintain body fat % and put on lean muscle.

Started my first fast recently. Ate my last food on Fri at 10pm, and didn't eat again till sunday around noon. The only reason I actually broke it was because I was at work, someone offered me some of their smoothie, and I completely forgot I was fasting, and ended up drinking it.

Sat wasn't bad until around 6pm. I started getting very hungry. I tried to preoccupy myself, and then around 10pm I saw someone post a picture of a pizza and dear lord I had a meltdown. I proceeded to look up shit about pizza's like the rankings of the best frozen pizza on the market. I managed to hold on for the rest of the night, and went to bed around 2am. But I couldn't sleep. I just kept thinking about food and how if I just had something small I could go to sleep a lot easier. Eventually I did fall asleep around an hour later, but the overall sleep was pretty terrible as well.

Next morning however I just wasn't hungry. Even up until I accidentally had the smoothie, I wasn't really hungry.

I think I'm going to try alternate day fasting, where I eat normally on normal days, and 500cals after my workout around 6pm on fast days, and that's it. I've scoured the internet and apparently tons of people lose a good amount of weight this way.

Finished my 12 day fast.Ate a bit of watermelon and took probiotics and mineral/vitamin supplement.When is it safe to start eating normal food again?

you'll want to avoid refeeding syndrome.

a lot of people say its good to do keto post-fast.

check out

reddit.com/r/fasting/comments/4k9k9e/refeeding_best_practices_avoid_refeeding_syndrome/

He's here because fasting makes him extremely butt hurt, for some reason. I suspect in his life, he must always be telling everyone how to live and be. Coincidentally those things will all line up with everything he does. Most likely this user is a control freak, wife beater.

It's too bad this user cares SO much about something so unimportant.

> I saw someone post a picture of a pizza and dear lord I had a meltdown. I proceeded to look up shit about pizza's like the rankings of the best frozen pizza on the market

Made me chuckle, I do this with weed, when I take a long break I end up browsing weed websites and reading as much as I can about it.

>tfw day 3 is the hardest
We're all gonna make it aren't we?

Will potassium/mag tablets fuck it up if I take them every so often? Thinking of crushing them up and mixing them into water.

>not having a credit card for emergencies

My first couple of times fasting, I overdid it on breaking the fast and felt like shit all day after eating. Definitely don't have a huge "all my favorite things in one breakfast" like I did. It's great until you put down the fork.

Did a 14 day fast last summer, planning a 28 day fast for next month. Can't wait to be honest, I really enjoyed it last year.

How fast would it be to get to 170lbs from 198lbs?

Should I intermittent or do days at a time?

How much will this effect on the job performance?
I've worked tired before so that's no problem, but I don't want to lose a goddamn hand in a machine because I'm near passing out.

I dont think its a wise idea to fast while doing anything more than sitting on your ass or very mild exercise like walking.

1lb per week is easy, 1.5 is moderate, 2+ lbs per week takes some work.

30lbs would take anywhere from 4-7 months. If you're looking for a summer body by July, aim for next July.

Doing 5/2 (5 day fast, 2 day feast) and/or 3/1, you would reach 170 in about 3-6 weeks depending on activity level.

Anything longer than 24 hrs and I can't get up too fast or move around without feeling either woozy or colorful vision like when you rub your eyes too long

What meal did you break your fast with

>didn't even read previous posts

>in one hour I will be at 2 days in a row
>food is really fucking tempting

what do I do? When is a good day to stop? First time faster here.

Day 3/4 is the final hump

48 hours is already a very successful first attempt, farther than most people go at first.

I based that off reading the aggressive, for no reason, and mad for no reason, posts.

>Stop doing things I don't like

Never a reason for anyone to take you seriously.

Thanks, day one wasn't too bad. The main obstacle and reason why I started was because I work at a grocery store and temptation is everywhere. Today I took my break and could smell food all day, it was painful. Not physically, but mentally.

broke it slowly over a period of 4 days. On the first day I only ate blueberries and a few strawberries, same on the second day just a lot more and on the third and fourth days I also ate almonds and I think some sweet potato. Started eating normally at about 6 days I think.

I went 12 days on my first attempt, what kind of pussy bails after 2 days?