No pdf yet? You guys are slow

Why's that user?

No results on google for those, user.

Try 5/3/1 BBB 4 days a week with shitloads of accesory work like I do and then talk about volume. SS and SL is actually shit for the eldery with 0 volume

Agreed, although I'm coached by RTS I am a huge fan of CWS and Max, their athletes pretty much dominate the weightlifting scene at their respected classes

juggernaut method, chad wesley smiths programs i.e. inverse jm, cowboy method, juggercube etc.

BBB is junk volume, you would be much better off with sets 65-85% 1rm instead of taking 50% of a 90% training max and doing 5x10 with it

I ran 5/3/1 + BBB years ago before beyond 5/3/1 was out and it's probably the worst accessory template on 5/3/1 which is already a shit program where most volume will come from accessories, run literally anything else

I hear it suffers from the same shitty formatting of his previous books.

I did 5/3/1. Looked like shit. Did 3x12 and got massive. Fuck jim wendler

How much can I expect my lifts to go up on a juggernaut method cycle? It seems a bit long.

what should i do instead

I agree, I can't stand strong lifts or SS, they are both terrible. And 5/3/1 BBB is also terrible, it incorporates zero auto regulation, and no specificity, both of which are essential for progress. Volume for the sake of volume is pointless, you want the work sets to be around RPE 9 and a recoverable weekly fatigue of around 30%.

I assume you're a novice/intermediate which is fine, and I encourage you to look into something like the Juggernaut Method 2.0, RTS or the Texas Method template

Those are powerlifting programs, what is a good bodybuilding program?

lyle mcdonald's GBR, coolcicada PPL, dltbb's split, maybe get the renaissance periodization hypertrophy routines if you're a goy and easily part with your shekels

It is auto regulated, on the last set of the third week of each wave you do an AMRAP set, CWS recommends +2.5lbs to your max for every rep you get over the set amount.

E.g.

On the 10's wave in the final week, you get 14 reps. This would mean +10lbs to your max.

14 - 10 = 4

4 x 2.5 = 10

I did texas method for about 6 months but it was getting harder and harder for my lower body lifts to go up, and my upper body lifts hardly went up at all (I would only gain like 1 rep on my bench per week at best)

Yes, im intermediate level. I want to build mass while not neglecting my strength, is the juggenaut method fine for that?

That sounds pretty good. Thanks user

you could run JM as a bodybuilding routine. Just accessorize and add a day for isolation or something

TM is known to be shit for upper body, like every single rippetoe-offshoot routine (yeah I know TM is not a rippetoe routine, but it's very popular among that crowd)

you can run it for lower body but do something that's not shit for bench (maybe do Sheiko bench on top of it, or maybe greg nuckols 3x int or int high bench on top of it)

seconding lyle mcdonalds GBR

reckon it's the absolute best routine for intermediate lifters wanting aesthetics

>Novice

- SS
- Greyskull

>Intermediate

- Inverted Juggernaut Method 2.0 (High Frequency Version)

- RTS Intermediate

- Texas Method Template

- Smolov Jr

- Sheiko

>Advanced

- RTS

- Sheiko

s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=80560409883646910214

here you guys go. CWS thoughtful pursuit of strength with all these routines and lots of good info

Texas Method as is written is poor for the upper body since it requires more volume and frequency to develop (in general). If you read practical programming 3rd edition you will find that there is much more to it than the base template. There are chapters dedicated to increasing volume/frequency which could be applied to your upper body lifts. There are also chapters dedicated to stalling, and moving the progression to once every 2-3 weeks and increasing the duration of the volume days.

I posted above with some recommended programs for each stage (Novice, Intermed, Advanced) take a look at those

Inverted Juggernaut Method (High Frequency) is perfect for that, take a look in the JM2.0 PDF.

You're welcome, friend.

This GBR could be used with 531. The first movement is a compound with low reps and the rest is acessory

So it's that way for both lower body and upper body lifts? Will it work on OHP also?

Try one of these.

I would do 1.25lbs for OHP, simply because it is a harder lift to progress on.

I do want to say though, do the high frequency inverted version which is in the 2.0 book, the high frequency and high volume is fantastic for upper body progress.

s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=29890889942938366973

Juggernaut Method 2.0, enjoy

damn. tiny was aesthetic af. shame about the height tho

>- SS
>- Greyskull
>- Texas Method Template
>- Smolov Jr
Useless shit

I don't know if I trust you, user

i dont get it.

the archive is archived from the normal chan right? so why do i never see files on the site and people just say go to the archives. at some point they must have been on the chans right?

We don't even have the newest version of naturally enhanced and that came out like 6 months ago

Why does everyone on Veeky Forums apparently hate 5/3/1/ and then you've got people like Alan Thrall on JewTube who rates it?

Texas Method Template is fantastic, 4 or 5 day Texas Method is brilliant.

Smolov Jr is perfect for peaking.

Alan Thrall is also an idiot, he's just glorified by Reddit for some reason.

Look at any reputable coach and see what they think of 5/3/1, it's not good.

Who cares what Alan Thrall thinks or says? He has terrible lifts and his knowledge seems pretty minimal. He's just another average person who reads the main headlines on T-Nation, gets over excited and makes a video about it.

alan thrall is shit

whats the High Frequency Version?

All I know is it's 6 days a week so unless you're a true 5%er you probably wouldn't want to do it anyway

5/3/1 is a great program for people who used to lift seriously and are too old and banged up to lift seriously anymore.

It's a terrible program if you want to get strong because it isn't heavy enough, often enough. It's not very good for getting big because the volume options Wendler outlines are too light and not really frequent enough for most people.

Alright, it was a legit question since I've only just started and don't know left from right. But he seems fairly big and I don't see him getting called out on shit so I assumed he was actually knowledgeable.

That makes sense.

He's knowledgeable insofar as he can get you started and give you SOME novice level knowledge but he's really not useful beyond that. The rest of his videos are just recycled squat and deadlift tips with some stretching and posture stuff thrown in every once in a while, really not that useful past the novice stage.

I don't know what the fuck these guys are talking about
I did 5/3/1 BBB with swimming HIIT on off days, and in six months I went from 320 5rm squat to 400, 405 5rm deadlift to 490, and 250 5rm bench to 290. My OHP only went from 170 5rm to 190 though.
It worked very well for me, and I see no reason it wouldn't work for everyone else as long as you're putting in sufficient work and bulking. If you're not eating enough on this routine you'll just end up hurting yourself

I doubt anyone thinks that it does nothing but I ran 5/3/1 BBB for 7-8 months and put ~ 80lbs on my squat. After 4 months of Juggernaut Method (run after 5/3/1 FWIW) I put 80lbs on my squat.

It's sub-optimal and just fine if you want slow, safe, progress for a minimal time investment. But if you want to get strong as fast as you are able then it is simply not a sufficient amount of time under a heavy bar.

its not a terrible routine but its far from optimal and there are much better options

What's wrong with greyskull? What should i do instead if I want to get stronger and in better shape?

It's a vicious cycle. Someone on Veeky Forums tells them it's garbage for the sake of being a contrarian so they don't do it. Then, when confronted with the fact that people can and have made progress using methods they've disregarded, they have to choose from repeating the cycle and calling it shit or admitting they may have been wrong which never happens.

Alan Thrall has good information, runs a successful gym, is a competitive strongman, but only benches 3pl8 so lol who gives a fuck. 5/3/1 variations have been providing advanced lifters with strength gains for years, getting more efficient with every update of the program, but you don't bench enough so lol who gives a fuck.

Never listen to people on Veeky Forums. They will go out of their way to disagree with you unnecessarily just so they can call you wrong more. If you said something that these people disagree with on strength programming, then said the sky was blue, they would start writing their thesis-paper like posts on how your programming sucks and by the way the sky is red.

you would have made a lot more gains on any other routine with more volume and frequency

don't credit wendler's mediocre routine, credit your work ethic and great genetics (and i say this unironically - six months to go from 405x5 to 490x5 deadlift is insane progress)

Literally no one that is advanced would even touch 5/3/1, you think someone who is advanced and needs an obscenenly highly specific program would follow some cookie cutter routine that provides mediocre results?

No one is saying 5/3/1 won't get you results, you're lifting weights with extremely slow progression, of course you will get results, slowly, but you will get them.

And Alan Thrall is just very likeable, his gym is not successful as he's explained in some of his videos, he has a very small client base.

I think we generally need to get people away from using the term 'advanced' for these pre written programs. Anything advanced will be specific to the lifter and the lifters goals/strengths/weaknesses and other lifestyle factors.

Now I feel like I got cucked out of gains, I thought that was great progress and the best routine I could have been doing. I knew the OHP was a little off though
>and i say this unironically - six months to go from 405x5 to 490x5 deadlift is insane progress
I was eating on a pretty huge calorie surplus, I don't think my genetics are really all the great. I may have become stronger, but I also gained ~25lbs of bodyweight with a good amount of that being fat.

most people will never deadlift 495x5 in their lifetime regardless of how much weight they gain or how hard they train

this is reality

be thankful

it took me years to go from 5pl8 1rm to 6pl8 1rm and I had to fill out a lot more than 25lbs

You made good gains, but you would have made good gains regardless. However, if you were following a proper program you would have made even better progress, don't feel disappointed, just carry on with your new found knowledge.

Who has trouble with their legs?
I usually can't pack on more than seventy p. 4 months, if I ever Deload ever it's like i lose it all

Literally every other lift is fine
I've covered hihhbar Lowbar light volume heavy volume be tier sets and stuck with em all for decent time

Nothing to show

can someone post this damn juggernaut method program?

>5/3/1 has had numerous rereleases providing different methods to customize the program for what you need
>but it's cookie cutter and will help literally no one
You're not a unique snowflake, and the wheel doesn't need to be reinvented for you.

5/3/1 has had numerous re-releases because jimmy wendler realized that one working set once a week doesn't work for anyone who isn't 1. novice or 2. genetic anomaly

so he re-released the program a bunch of times (beyond 5/3/1 adding joker sets and FSL - actual volume that isn't too light to have a good training effect), and how his latest versions

unfortunately the basic engine of the program is still shit, because doing an AMRAP set as your first difficult set of the day directly limits the amount of volume you can do on that day (as opposed to doing many submaximal sets), and volume is the biggest determinant of training effect (see every modern study on lifting for proof)

>see every modern study on lifting for proof
Well?

So what you're telling me is that if I do 100 reps at 5% of my 1RM, that will net me some sick gains because volume overpowers everything else? Also, focusing on the lift your trying to increase with heavy AMRAP sets is going to be a lot more effective at increasing it than just more accessory work. Your bench press is going to be determined by your bench press, not your pec flies and tricep kickbacks.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22158142
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300012

two real quick ones

not studies but go into detail on why volume is important

strongerbyscience.com/more-is-more/
youtube.com/watch?v=lrM1wKtFmAQ
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/01/01/quick-thoughts-on-the-importance-of-volume/

volume within a certain intensity range, 65%-85% most of the time, is the biggest determinant of training effect

what you are describing is "junk volume", which is volume too light to cause a training effect (the 5% 100 reps thing) but still enough to cause fatigue

youtube.com/watch?v=czvV9PE_q4A

also, your bench press will absolutely be helped by hypertrophy exercises - pec flyes are a favorite of elite bench pressers (see any Boris Sheiko world champion)

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22158142
The before and after were less than two months apart, not nearly enough to get a substantial result strength training.
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300012
This just says that 1 set isn't optimal. It does state, though, that anywhere from 2-6 sets netted the same results. It sounds like volume can vary greatly without significant difference to hypertrophy.

you're somehow getting the exact opposite of what i'm trying to convey here

i'm telling you 5/3/1 is too reliant on accessory work

i'm telling you instead of taking that 80% 1rm working set and blasting out one hard set and wiping yourself out and being relegated to work that is almost too light (FSL) or accessory work, you could have done something like 80% 8x3 and gotten a shit ton of volume on that big lift

roidsupplier.com/downloads/531-Powerlifting.pdf

>hypertrophy exercises
Is a hypertrophy exercise a special exercise done for hypertrophy? Or just any exercise done to hypertrophy? So why wouldn't I just do the bench for hypertrophy if I wanted the best bench? A study cited directly states than low to high volume both create hypertrophy similarly.

I'm telling you that there are several variations of 5/3/1 that call for little to no accessory work. On bench day, you bench for your 5/3/1 sets, then do OHP and rows, everything else optional.

thank you user :)

>Inverted Juggernaut
So if I understand this right I'm going to need to calculate my working maximum (90% of the 1RM) for wave based on the number of reps I can preform on the AMARP set of the Realization phase? So what happens if I'm having a shit day for whatever reason and my lifts suffer causing me to flunk that set? I wouldn't want to start the next wave with weights based on a set that I could have done much better on. You supposed to just re-do it?

Or if you stall do you just keep that same training max for the next wave?