NATTIES:

Help me understand the animosity that many of you seem to have toward those of us who choose to use gear. I browse through this board from time to time, and I'm always a bit surprised at how upset many people seem to get over the use of steroids. It's almost like an obsession, to the point where guys are calling people out for supposed roiding the moment they show any progress toward their fitness goals. I'm just amazed by how outraged people can get over the choices of others that literally do not affect them in any way.

So, is it a moral issue? Do you feel like gear users are cheaters who make their gains "the easy way," without having to put in any effort? Is it a jealousy issue? Are you upset because guys on gear make bigger, faster gains than natty guys do? Is it a self-loathing thing, where you want to use gear yourself, but you're too afraid to try it, so you get upset at those who have taken the plunge? Do you feel like guys who are juiced up are ruining their health, and you look down on them for making what you consider to be a poor/stupid decision? Help me understand, because I just can't wrap my head around why this issue evokes such an emotional response from people when it really has nothing to do with them. If you're natty and happy with your decision to be natty, then why do you care if that guy across from you in the gym is roiding? I'm on gear, but even when I was natty, I didn't have any ill will toward people who ran AAS. Likewise, now that I'm roiding, I don't look down on people who choose to stay natty. Can't we all just get along?

I think it is you who cares senpai

I think it's maybe a touch of jealousy behind it all. I have friends on gear. I have friends who are natty. I have friends who don't even lift or exercise at all.

The anonymity kind of juices up people's hate triggers. I've found that in the real world regular people don't care nearly as much.

I'm just curious. At the end of the day, I couldn't care less whether the guy next to me is geared up or not. That's their choice.

I definitely agree with you on the whole anonymity thing. People just seem to be angrier on anonymous boards where they don't have any fear of repercussion.

This conversation was had very maturely yesterday in a thread (that might still exist) where two anons debated both sides intelligibly. It basically ended with tons of anons posting a ton of scholarly sources that steroid use was objectively pretty bad for you, and all the steroids users (sans 1) acting like retards (pic related)

The main thing that I have with it personally is that it's extremely unhealthy for your body to be on steroids, but users try to make it out like their achieving higher standards of health than I am. Many roid users claim that they've found the "right" way to gear up that virtually has no risk, but they're standing against literally all empirical evidence from peer-reviewed studies on steroid use. There haven't been any studies that have concluded an absence of negative side effects from steroid use, and even doctors prescribing steroids for recovery of injury do so knowing that there are always negative side effects. Moreover, in most cases, a steroid user is using products that haven't been well regulated by groups like the FDA or they're getting them from dubious sources at best - so you really don't know what you're putting into your body. A bad batch can and will kill you.

Yes, your muscles will get bigger, but when your "gains" become so important you're going to let your cock stop working, start growing tits, and dying in your 50s, then I think that's retarded and will probably laugh at you. Not because it's some great decision that effects the cultural milieu of society or anything, but it's just as stupid or laughable when people put themselves at risk with other heavy drug use. The only exception real exception here being that people who use gear try to pass it off as if their achieving higher standards of physical health then the rest of us when they're actually doing the opposite.

This is really well written itself.

The animosity I have towards steroid users is the same I have with pot heads: do what you want with your body but for god's sake don't put out misinformation about it.

Truth

We all know how weak you truely are, both physically and mentally, behind your silly disguise.

because they sacrifice their wallets and their bodies to make natural lifting bodies look dyel in our society and part of me can't quite get over that

basically Arnold is a fucking faggot and steroids were a mistake

idgaf

you have to be pretty insecure to use steroids and not play any sports

That's a fair point, and well said. I do not operate under the delusion that gear doesn't impact my health. I'm on Tren, and I get regular bloodwork that clearly shows how Tren trashes my HDL and puts a strain on my liver. However, my gear usage is a personal decision based on my weighing of the pros and cons and what I feel I can handle/manage successfully. Gear allows me to put on a tremendous amount of muscle in a short amount of time with minimal fat gain. I can gain in months what it takes others years of grinding to accomplish. Admittedly, this efficiency is of great value to me. I use gear for the same reason natties use creatine and other supplements, though on a higher level --
it gives me a performance edge. On the other hand, my overall health does indeed take a hit when I'm blasting, despite the fact that I might "look" healthier than my natty counterparts. I do my best to use AAS responsibly -- getting frequent bloodwork, managing my E2 and any potential side effects, supplementing to ease hepatic strain and cholesterol issues, etc. When I finish blasting and drop down to a cruise, my HDL and AST/ALT will slowly return to normal levels. It's a personal choice based on the amount of risk with which I am comfortable. However, I (and any honest/intelligent gear user, for that matter) am fully aware of the health drawbacks associated with steroids, and would never try to fool someone into thinking that gear usage is risk-free.

The major issue I've encountered as a user is that anecdotal quality of life improvements cannot be quantified so easily as statistical evidence of harm. No user is going to pretend what we do is healthy, but ultimately we've made value judgments regarding the choice and concluded that the positives of gear are worth the potential downsides.

any of them sources for permanently cruising on 250mg?

Personally, I've no problem whatsoever if someone's roiding. The only time I take issue with it is if someone's doing it in a competitive environment, the Olympics or whatever, but that's how I feel about most subjects. People hacking in vidya, moving chess pieces when your opponent walks out of the room and so on. If you want to take them to look good, go for it.

because natty gains are infuriating

I am a user myself and outside of Veeky Forums i keep it to myself because frankly its easier that way. What i have noticed is certain people use steriods and the gains inflate their egos. Some natties think its cheating and feel that way when a steroid user is stronger/more aesthetic than them they should take it as a peraonal slight.

The bad blood isnt between natties on non-natties (fakies? Lol). Its just between arseholes on both sides and where they stand in relation to steriods is the main fuel for there fire

Agreed. I use gear, and the misinformation in the community is not only ridiculous, but potentially harmful for new users who don't know what to expect.

Yup, that's the animosity to which I was referring. :)

Do you feel the same way about hot rodders who soup up their cars to get peak performance while putting a greater strain on the engine/chassis? Does that generate the same amount of anger in you?

What does playing sports have to do with it? Goals are goals, whether they happen to be scoring a touchdown for your team or getting in peak physical shape for personal/aesthetic reasons.

I completely agree with this. These are personal decisions that we make based on our assessment of the pros and cons.

I can understand this. I don't think that an "enhanced" athlete should be pitted against a natural athlete if you want a fair competition. However, the state of professional sporting events at this point is so competitive that, in reality, the majority of athletes are likely on gear anyway. I'd be perfectly happy, though, if each sport were divided into "enhanced" and "natural" classes. I'd watch an All-Steroid Olympics in a heartbeat.

I'd say that's fair enough, but again, you're admittedly fucking up your body. I'm not asking you to defend it, but basically was just responding to the thread about why roid users get so much hate.


That's irrelevant to user's point and isn't how research works.

Why do you think /fph/ exists in the first place

I'd say this sums up how I feel about it, too. Jerks on both sides ruining it for the rest of us. I really wish there wasn't this long-standing stigma around gear use in the general public, though. When I pin gear, it's as normal/routine to me as taking a scoop of creatine or whey. I'm not some evil cheater trying to fool society -- I'm just a fitness enthusiast trying to put on muscle in the most efficient way possible.

I'm on 300 ng/dl total test but 237 ng/dl bioavailable test so decent gains. I'm gonna try getting on trt. I'm 23 btw.

>Dick not working / growing tits / injecting drugs / heart problems / going bald / early death

>efficient

I despise the FPH threads on this board. I'm all about being fit and healthy, but there's no reason to be cruel to those who don't meet your standards.

250mg/wk is high for TRT and will likely put you out of the normal physiological range, which is not ideal in the long-term. For reference, I take less than 100mg/wk on a cruise and hit 1,100 ng/dL.

Roiders make hard-working natties look like they don't even lift. And they do it with no effort whatsoever, nothing but a willingness to ruin their health long term over some short term bragging rights.

I always get the impression that people who do FPH threads are usually not in really good shape or are fat themselves. I'm natty but agree 100% with you bro. That shit is weak.

We all started somewhere.

Again, I'm natty but I gotta call this out. Steroids aren't some magic pill that makes muscles grow out of nowhere. Those guys are working out for 3+ hours a day usually.

Not that I defend steroids use, but let's call a spade a spade.

I dont have anything against using gear. I understand that. Its very funny when natties are discussing supplements hoping that they will find a supplement-thats-like-gear-but-its-not-steroids, trying to take anything that will provide even a 0,001% increase in their ability to build muscle.

What I dont like is LYING about using steroids. And its upon those lies that todays fitness industry is built upon. You know why you bought that overpriced whey? Because deep in your heart you wish that this whey will give you the mass of your "all natural idol". His frogtechTM protein formula must be the thing you are missing on your way to become a muscle beast.

Also, fake natties make us, real hard working natties look worse in eyes of general public. Girls think that you can look like jeff seid naturally at 20 yo age. What you will answer them when they ask you "if you workout, why you dont look like him"? Do you think, they will understand that the world was lying to them for the whole time?

thats true actually, still gonna roid tho :^)

Nigger there's been studies on this. Roiding and sitting on your ass all day grows more muscle than intensively working out natty.

But it has been proven many times that doing roids will give you more muscle mass gains than when working out as natty. Such is the power of hormones.

because I got dubs I will also touch one subject; people think that roids is cheating and unfair. Actually, there is one thing that is much more unfair - genetics. Even roids cant equalize genetics disadvantages. Some people livers cant handle roids, while some people will respond to roids much better in lower doses.
Yet, nobody is focusing on how genetics are EVERYTHING in sport.

Im half natty btw. I did two ostarine (SARM, weak roids) cycles and the difference was HUGE. Roids cover diet, workouts and lifestyle mistakes. Maybe thats why people think that its cheating.
But, actually, isnt it basically progress? Like, forced evolution?

Don't insult those of us on gear by saying that we put in no effort. We work out just as hard as you do. Our muscles just respond better because of the AAS. I spend 2.5-3 hours in the gym every day, inject myself every day, go through the hassle of getting bloodwork run on myself every few weeks, and put a lot of time into monitoring my body and managing my diet. If you think we just sit on the couch and get huge, you're sadly mistaken...

THANK YOU.

it's because I'm too much of a pussy to order them

You touched on a good point. Steroids give you an edge (a big edge, but an edge, nonetheless). This is why I find it so troubling that natty people are so upset about steroids when they themselves are taking countless supplements with the goal of performance enhancement. The only real difference is the legality aspect of it. How is someone going to call me out for taking gear to get bigger/stronger more quickly when they're taking creating, beta-alanine, and citrulline to give them a boost over their previous potential, as well? Everyone is trying to do this shit more efficiently, to one degree or another.

Use gear all you want if you're in the US. If you're from the UK you're just as bad as smokers seeing as your heart will likely give out 20 years too early.

I've stated this before, in multiple threads that there should be 2 categories for events. Just cos it'd be interesting to watch the absolute peak of human potential in ANY sport or event.

Barely tho. Lime 7lbs of muscle in 6 no the lmao a d it stagnated there.
Imagine if you actually worked out.

Absolutely. New records every single time you tune in... It would be incredible!

Yeah but the natural athletes will just take gear too. Just look at natural bodybuilding/men's physique competitions.

Cultural conditioning for the most part. Steroid usage in the bodybuilding community has been heavily stigmatized by western society.

Most of it stems from it's role as an actual performance enhancer in sport and this stigma bleeds into the bodybuilding community when in reality it's role and impact in the two fields share very little resemblance especially in the scope of casual or hobbyist bodybuilding.

The funny part is people spend their whole lives trying to get one up over their fellow man, they will stoop to low and arbitrary means to get an advantage, they will justify makeup, plastic surgery, liposuction, branded clothing, ANYTHING just to get ahead in the race.

The fact of the matter is life isn't fair, genetics aren't fair, circumstances of birth aren't fair, if you see a rope, climb it. I was born small, weak and poor, Fuck you if you think I'm going to die that way.

Pic related because Icarus is inspirational as fuck.

Holy guacamole that's some intense cringe you have there friendo.

If you wanna use them go ahead, just don't be a fake natty that's all we ask.

I dont view the hotrodder dilemma even remotely the same

Its the fact that they are damaging themselves and how society views muscular people at the same time

I dont think there's even really an equivalent, maybe plastic surgery is a similar situation? Changing how society sees average attractiveness? Even then beauty is so much more subjective then muscle mass. Mass is mass and roiders are killing themselves to destroy the image of naturally muscular men.

I hear ya. It's a tough situation, mainly because gear is illegal. I'd love to be able to just tell someone, "Oh yeah, I'm on Test and Tren. The gains are great!" However, if I were to do that, I'd face potential legal issues. I'm not going to put myself out there and say, "Hey, look what I did as a natty" when I'm roided up, but at the same time, I have to deny it if someone asks me about it in the gym, for the sake of safety...

Well just make jokes like 'just celltech' or something like that. Gym rats will understand and be fine with that, normies won't get it

Haha, yeah, I've thought about using the "dat dere CellTech" line with a little grin. Lol

Yeah there's nothing incriminating there, and people who know about roids will understand

People are whiny bitches if they see someone doing better than them. It's human nature. I'm natty and my lifting partner roids. It doesn't bither me that he roids. It bothers me that his recovery time is retarded and can train the same muscle group 3 days in a row without being sore or fatigued, not because hes better or stronger than me, which he is neither atm but because he pins. I don't dislike him though. Its a little bit of jealousy but mostly just annoying.

>injecting your own ass just to go through a second puberty

>We work out just as hard as you do. Our muscles just respond better because of the AAS. I spend 2.5-3 hours in the gym every day...

3 hours every day? what are you doing, some arm pump workouts, roidhead?

I would say the majority of roided guys work harder than us natties. The endurance and recovery boosts allow you to do more sets and do them more often, which is why you can spend 3 hours in the gym

Tren makes it to where I can just bang out volume all day and still come back for more. I put that to use.

True, if healthcare here was private then I'd be fine if weed and roids were legal because people are destroying their own bodies and have to pay the price themselves
But cause of the NHS it would mean we the public have to bail these fuckers out which I don't think is fair

What? I've literally never seen anyone complaing about roiders here. If I were to guess I think everyone here either are planning too or want to get on gear in the future.

Some of us are actual athletes in actual competitive sports and people who use banned substances to get an illegal advantage over everyone else ruin the sport for everyone. I train 20 hours a week on top of a full-time job and I don't use anything on the WADA list or anything illegal to obtain or posess in my country, then there's assholes who get 'roids and EPO and whatever else they can get their hands on and say 'fuck the police'. They place higher in competition over people who did everything straight up and according to the rules. Additionally they're risking their long-term health for temporary advantage which those of us who do not cheat think is the height of stupidity. Should I just hire hitmen off the darkweb to break the kneecaps of my competition so I can win? It's not that much different to me than using illegal, banned substances. That's why.

I also have NO respect for anyone using steroids for mere 'aesthetics', the risk way outweighs the benefits, when all you're doing it for is so you (think) you're going to get laid -- and don't even TRY to tell me that's not why so many of you do it. You're short, you're skinny, and you get overlooked, and you just can't get over yourself enough to find a way to work with what life gave you, so you inject steroids and think that's going to fix everything in your life. It won't, the problem is in YOUR BRAIN, not your muscles, then when you're 50 and you have heart trouble you'll have the steroids to blame. Stupid.

Guys like you can do whatever you like, but nothing you can inject is ever going to get your peoples' respect. You have to earn that, and using banned and illegal substances won't do that for you. Claiming you don't care whether people respect you or not is disingenuous at best and outright delusional at worst. Get correct.

i dont have a source or a knowledgeably bro friend who can guide me through it :(

it only pisses me off when they are near me and smell like shit

Working less for more, and acting superior as a result.
That's pretty much it.

99% of people don't end up keeping a routine going anyway, instant results-type people are the same. They'll pin for a year, get bored and stop. There's no ongoing goals, unless they get bitten by the exercise bug and end up oly lifting or power lifting.

It's like playing a multiplayer game and your buddy on the couch next to you has cheats enabled - you can clearly see it on the screen, and he denies it (for whatever reason).

It's the fraud part that bothers people.

Because I don't have any