What The Health

This is a joke, right? ....Right? (This is Veeky Forums so it's hard to tell when people are being sarcastic or are actually retarded.)

Been vegan for 7 years and all it's done is improve my health dramatically.

I haven't seen either, but Bill Nye's show, from what I HAVE seen, is mostly political rather than being about science. I doubt this health show is about politics in any way. I'd imagine it's difficult to have an agenda when making this kind of thing unless you're selling a product.

went vegan for a year and quit once my teeth started chipping from chewing pizza crust and other mildy hard shit

started eating meat again and my energy sky rocketed and my teeth have never chipped since

u can easily get political with nutrition

ever hear of "healthy at every weight"? bill nye's nutrition episode was hella biased

>"This movement to be comfortable with our bodies has made us comfortable with being sick, and that's a huge problem" - Dr. Garth Davis

Body Positive Fatties BTFO

S m h... how do your teeth chip from veggies.
Maybe start brushing twice.

Yeah that's true. Is Phoenix a leftie though? My favorite movie is Her so I'd feel bad not even trying to watch this

tl:dw; Go Vegan

every Netflix funded show/documentary/movie can fuck off. They were good at first but have slid deep into promoting specific agendas in the past 2 years.

Bill byes episode on gender sent me into a rage desu familia. I went back and watched a few of the episodes I saw as a kid to make sure he wasn't full of shit. In the old episodes he'd
>ask a question relevant to subject matter
>give the answer to the question he just asked
>perform an experiment, the results of which supported the answer he stated
>said that experiments such as this and many others were developed by scientists over years to come to the conclusion we've reached
Whereas in this new garbage
>see you have to listen to science
>and the science says gender is a spectrum
>it's science!!
Never once giving support to his claims, just adamantly stating it's "science" over and over again and everybody just eats it up

What's more is defenders of this claim that it's not a very developed or researched field since it's so knew. But then they ask me to accept their position as the truth, when they themselves have said it's not researched and nobody knows much about it. How am I supposed to accept an Unresearched and unsupported claim as truth?

TLDR?

Summarize Bill's nutrition episode for me if you could, I avoided that show entirely since I heard about the gender episode

Just from glancing through this link it looks like the film talks about the economic burden of public health issues, how diet relates to health, and basically promotes eating a plant-based diet as it talks about the health impact of diets that are high in meat, dairy, eggs, alcohol, and sugar, as well as the politics behind those industries and their influence.

Animal products are horrible for you in any quantity and there is a worldwide conspiracy by health organizations and the pharma industry to hide it while PCRM/PETA have the truth

The conspiracy element does seem heavy, but unlike a lot of nutrition documentaries involving government conspiracies, atleast the diet advice the film gives is still fairly mainstream. It's mostly picking on things like how the American Heart Association will tell people to avoid red meat for its saturated fat and cholesterol content, but then on another part of the website give recipes for beef, while having taken millions of dollars from sponsors that produce beef.

Humans have ALWAYS eaten meat since before we were human how the fuck is it bad? There are loads of studies that say we need meat in our diet. Admittedly this processed to fuck meat ever so slightly raises the risk of cancer though so all in moderation.

>Humans have ALWAYS eaten meat since before we were human how the fuck is it bad?

Meat isn't poisonous but it can contribute to chronic diseases in many ways. Chronic diseases manifest in the later decades of life, meaning it wasn't much of a problem for ancient humans with relatively short lifespans, but if you plan on living a long and healthy life today, it's something to be concerned about

>Pro cancer factors include excess protein
Are we all fucked Veeky Forums?

Went vegan for a year and ended up developing bipolar disease. Went back to meat and now I'm healed. Never go vegan. Ever.

There's nothing mainstream about holistic nutritionists and doctors prescribing diet recommendations nor making animal products and saturated fat out to be the anti-panacea of human health and completely eliminating them. Industry funding is how science operates in a free market unlike in some escapist utopian fantasy incompatible with basic economics.

What was the agenda in the "Spectral" movie?

A plant-based diet is very mainstream. A completely vegan diet isn't mainstream but still generally accepted as a diet that can be healthy. The idea of there being things in animal products, including saturated fat, that are harmful is mainstream. The film just takes mainstream understandings of nutrition to their logical conclusion.

> Industry funding is how science operates in a free market unlike in some escapist utopian fantasy incompatible with basic economics.

The NIH exists for a reason. Industry funding inevitably biases research.

thank you guys, like many things some people have the genetics for it, and some dont, there are people out there right now who are 100+ and they dont got cancer, so it's more of a precaution to eat clean vegan/mostly vegan instead of risking it.

I take it you haven't watched it as the empty claims go a bit deeper. Dogmatic declarations that all carbohydrates cannot be eaten at a caloric surplus and cannot contribute to diabetes or heart disease is not mainstream. The idea that all animal products are unhealthy and cause disease at any quantity is not mainstream. Cherry-picking self-reported diet surveys is not mainstream. Calling all pharmaceutical companies and drugs evil is not mainstream. Diet reversing any kind of genetic predisposition to illness is not mainstream. And so on. There's nothing logical here unless you're suffering from severe mental illness.

>The NIH exists for a reason.
What they can give out is capped by taxation and it's not a whole lot. Are you a delusional bernout who thinks money comes from thin air?

>Industry funding inevitably biases research.
No good evidence for this

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2575884

Allegiance bias on the other hand

nutrition.org/how-nutrition-science-should-mature/

Oh my god I loved that movie, this is the first time I'm ever seeing someone reference it outside of having watche dit last year.

My apologies, just a quick nerdgasm. That was my shit, son.

is this that meme shit that says diabetes and cancer can be cured by eating vegan

1. Veganism is not a diet, it is a philosophy

2. Veganism is only as healthy as you make it

went vegan and my dick didn't work. not trolling, test went down dramatically and turned like a fuckin dried fruit. basically like ketogains. skin looked weird too.

>I take it you haven't watched it as the empty claims go a bit deeper

Yeah, I'm just going by the timestamp things in this link > Dogmatic declarations that all carbohydrates cannot be eaten at a caloric surplus and cannot contribute to diabetes or heart disease is not mainstream.
I don't see that in the timestamp fact list
>The idea that all animal products are unhealthy and cause disease at any quantity is not mainstream.
Is that explicitly what they say in the doc?
>Cherry-picking self-reported diet surveys is not mainstream. Calling all pharmaceutical companies and drugs evil is not mainstream.
One is a common research method and the other is a common attitude towards drug companies.
> Diet reversing any kind of genetic predisposition to illness is not mainstream
They point out what amount of certain diseases are due to genetic disposition, while using diet and lifestyle as a means of managing, treating, and preventing illness is mainstream.

>jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2575884
>While 775 reports were initially reviewed, only 12 met the inclusion criteria, and only one study was industry-funded

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2548251

>avoiding putting animal products into your body is not a diet

man i get smarter every time i come here

its just from the chemicals that they put in the meat to preserve it is what is causing cancer. your best bet is to hunt a fucking deer down and freeze it to have fresh organic meat for about half a year and do it again. I do it saves me money and i grow my own fuckin veggies. Fuck the super market.

Hearing the kind of shit (((they))) shilled on Bill Nye's show I'm gonna have to pass.

Gah, that's hard to watch. Not the critique, I actually agree with and even enjoy that, but the stupid shit the people on the show say is...
Irritating, to say the least.

Some of it is due to inherent properties of the meat. That diagram shows the effect of heme iron on cancer initiation. Heme is the blood-based iron that gives red meat its red color.

Food Inc. nails this thinking (in a way that agrees with you but takes it to the next level). Meat isn't bad, our meat isn't bad, it's bad animals that the meat comes from and it fucks everything up. We feed cows corn and steroids and lock up chickens in metal boxes for all of their lives. I'm not one who's even pro-animal rights, but if one takes the time to think about what food is fucking us up, it really can be the meat but you have to remember that meat is just dead animal.
Better animals = better food, better food = better diet, better diet = better overall health in society.

Maybe "bad animals" make things worse, but again there's things about meat, especially red meat, that are simply properties of meat itself that can't be gotten rid of.

kek

Researchers and media like to pin things on protein, but vegetarians and vegans and even just fat normies that get their daily dose of protein via alternatives don't all go dying of cancer. Or maybe they do. But then that's all of us.

Point being, the scientific method isn't perfect. Protein is blamed because it's supposedly why we eat animals, and it's seen that today's meat is causing a lack of public health. Maybe it isn't those traits of neat though like protein and cholesterol. It could simply be shit meat means shit health, just by meat quality due to external factors like disease or a lack of proper structure in the meat.

"Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."

Does that look like a diet to you?

Not sure what you're talking about with the protein thing, I haven't heard that cited as the big issue with meat, but even then obviously different sources of protein will have different effects on health due to the total package of health-affecting factors contained in the food.

> It could simply be shit meat means shit health, just by meat quality due to external factors like disease or a lack of proper structure in the meat.
Could be a problem to explore, but it certainly wouldn't be that simple. The research we already have indicates that there are unhealthy factors in many foods we commonly eat, meat included. If what you're suggesting is a concern, it would be in addition to whatever else we know.

>I don't see that in the timestamp fact list
Just got some free time to scrub the video again. It begins around 8:15. On that list as "DIABETES IS NOT CAUSED BY EATING A HIGH CARBOHYDRATE DIET OR SUGAR". But the fact twisting is seen emerging even before that, for example 3:56 "ground turkey breast" is not considered by the WHO to be processed, 6:25 ignores newer data that didn't replicate this finding

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934314003544
>In contrast, post mortem examination of 3832 American casualties in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (2000-2011) demonstrated evidence of coronary atherosclerosis in only 8.5 per cent and severe disease (>50% obstruction) in only 2.3% of these young Americans (12)
>This decline in coronary atherosclerosis may have occurred because of population-wide efforts in primary prevention. After the seminal Surgeon General's report in 1964 the prevalence of cigarette smokers that had peaked at 42% in 1965 has progressively decreased to 18% in 2012 (5)

>Is that explicitly what they say in the doc?
Heavily implied throughout the documentary, like when a single egg is compared to smoking five cigarettes, eating a piece of cheese to injecting heroin, arterial paralysis from eating "dead" animal flesh "within minutes of going into your mouth", the "toxins" in fish that are still "toxins" at any quantity, bashing AHA recipes for include small amounts of meat, etc.

>One is a common research method
...used exclusively by pseudoscientists

>and the other is a common attitude towards drug companies.
...held exclusively by the lower side of the population's IQ distribution, as are similar appeals to popularity

>They point out what amount of certain
YOU point out. THEY refrain from using that "certain" qualifier and make the kind of broad and sweeping statements that get naive lay patients to trade chemotherapy for some baseless quack diet

>>While 775 reports were initially reviewed
Yeah, that's what happens when objective high quality methods of evidence-grading are used instead of anti-scientific and subjective post-hoc theorizing

>jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2548251
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2607120

>appeals to popularity
>discussion is about what is mainstream

>correlation is causation
>I was an idiot and didn't make sure I was getting all my vitamins ... damn veganism

I'm not vegan but fuck no wonder people think vegans are dumb

Pretty sure they're joking, mate. People make up ridiculous bullshit stories to defend themselves for their decision to abuse animals.

>less than 10 minutes in some doctor says you literally cannot get fat on carbs
Skip

That's not what they said you mongoloid.

>jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2607120

I like how the Salt Institute employee's response makes it sound like the listed examples were an altruistic effort by these industries to help society. Pasteurization is the only way you can effectively mass produce, store, and sell milk without constant recalls and lawsuits and is legally required by the FDA. Despite iodized salt being available commercially, processed foods don't use iodized salt because the salt industry has resisted that sort of policy for the slight cost increase it would cause. Niacin and folic acid are required by law to be added to white flour/bread because the refining process of stripping the bran and germ causes these nutrients to be removed. Adding fiber or a small portion of whole wheat flour to bread is a deceptive marketing invention responsible for a lot of public confusion about how to select healthy foods. As if it's done for the good of the people purely out of kindness.

> It begins around 8:15. On that list as "DIABETES IS NOT CAUSED BY EATING A HIGH CARBOHYDRATE DIET OR SUGAR"
While not necessarily wrong, if they're using it to say sugar doesn't contribute to diabetes then yeah that's bullshit. I'll have to watch the doc to see the context.
>for example 3:56 "ground turkey breast" is not considered by the WHO to be processed
I looked into this and found something weird. In this clip I found, they show a deli-style (processed) turkey snack listed on the ACS website youtube.com/watch?v=GZYP9uHC6RA#t=5m28s
But on that page right now it's missing cancer.org/healthy/eat-healthy-get-active/take-control-your-weight/snacks-and-dashboard-dining.html
I wonder if they got spooked that he was interviewing people about this stuff and removed it?
>sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934314003544
Atherosclerosis being apparent in 8.5% and severe blockage present in 2.3% is still quite a lot when we're talking about people in their early 20s. I doubt they're including fatty streaks either, which is what the claim was. There's a big difference between fatty streaks and the diagnosis of coronary artery disease.
>Heavily implied
Sounds like they're just describing some of the dangers associated with eating these foods. Not necessarily wrong.

>avoiding putting animal products into your body is not a diet
No, this is not veganism. Vegans are ok with breastfeeding and lab grown meat (animal products you put in your body) but are not ok with wearing leather and using animal tested makeup (animal products you don't put in your body)
So yeah, I'd say your pic reflects you accurately

Maybe it's another phase like when he wanted to be a rapper?

No, only roidheads need 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight and above.
As long as you're not consuming ridiculous ammounts like that you don't have to worry about it.

It's harder to get fat on a high carb low fat diet than on a high fat low carb diet even when calories are the same.

youtube.com/watch?v=_ssqewyynLI

I'm watching it right now, what's fucked up is that everything they're telling me is completely opposite of what some other modern nutritionists were telling me. Everyone has some research backing their story. What the fuck? Who do I believe? Do I just quit and become a normie?

you will find that the majority of studies that appose this are funded y the meat and dairy industry's

>scientific consensus is the same thing as random-idiot-on-the-street consensus
(You)

There is a shitton of books telling you sugar is extremely bad for you, this Netflix thing says sugar does nothing bad. People say eat 3 eggs a day to be healthy and have good testosterone, this Netflix thing says eggs are worse than Satans shit.

Sugar is not considered healthy by the experts talking in the documentary, it is just not considered a major player in modern obesity and cardiovascular disease epidemic.

Obviously the answer to this is just eating a diet rich in carbs and in protein, with low sugar and even lower fat intake.

its not healthy for people who are on the average american diet

i ate very little fat & only plant fat.. i eat 800g of carbs a day mostly from fruit

consuming doesnt mean abusing tho

wrong. Carbs spike your insulin more than fat

So what the fuck do I eat? Only way to live healthy is to be a Vegan?

>Pasteurization is the only way you can effectively mass produce, store, and sell milk without constant recalls and lawsuits and is legally required by the FDA.
Yeah, and GR is the only experimentally and theoretically consistent way to describe gravity in the relativistic classical limit. Every physics undergraduate knows it and it's required to be taught to them. Einstein was just some brainlet jew shill out to make money. And your biggest humanitarian contribution, probably shitposting about a lmao2pl8 PR, definitely rivals Gail Borden.

>Despite iodized salt being available commercially, processed foods don't use iodized salt because the salt industry has resisted that sort of policy for the slight cost increase it would cause.
Source? Is it the same industry? Even if true, doesn't change that beneficial research, in this case the initial investigation into salt iodization, can and does come from non-governmental sources. Easy to find altruistic government examples as well.

>Niacin and folic acid are required by law to be added to white flour/bread because the refining process of stripping the bran and germ causes these nutrients to be removed.
Nothing to do with the original research.

>Adding fiber or a small portion of whole wheat flour to bread is a deceptive marketing invention responsible for a lot of public confusion about how to select healthy foods.
There are functional fibers with approved health claims. Anti-vax-style rhetorics at their best.

no i try to avoid propaganda

>I wonder if they got spooked that he was interviewing people about this stuff and removed it?
Or maybe they're using on older revision published before the IARC report or harping on an honest error to weave conspiracy? Still did not update their own site to reflect this change and it functions as blatant inconsistency in the thinking used regardless. If we go purely by IARC group 1 as a first principle you're ingesting radium if those mixed nuts contain brazil nuts, formaldehyde in those apple slices, aflatoxins in the grain products, PAHs in the coffee/cooked stuff. But none of those get discussed because it would suggest to the audience that reality is a bit more complex than the ideology allows.

>Atherosclerosis being apparent in 8.5% and severe blockage present in 2.3% is still quite a lot when we're talking about people in their early 20s.
My point was selective citing and underreporting which makes the claim exaggerated. It's a biased and sophistic look at the literature.

>I doubt they're including fatty streaks either
>Classifications of coronary atherosclerosis severity were determined prior to data analysis and designed to provide consistency with previous military studies: minimal (fatty streaking only), moderate (10%-49% luminal narrowing of ≥1 vessel), and severe (≥50% narrowing of ≥1 vessel).
>The prevalence of any coronary atherosclerosis was 8.5% (95% CI, 7.6%-9.4%); severe coronary atherosclerosis was present in 2.3% (95% CI, 1.8%-2.7%), moderate in 4.7% (95% CI, 4.0%-5.3%), and minimal in 1.5% (95% CI, 1.1%-1.9%).

IRON DUST CAN'T MELT SLAV GHOSTS

>Sounds like they're just describing some of the dangers associated with eating these foods. Not necessarily wrong.
Conversely there's nothing right about psychotic scaremongering comparisons. Is this some kind of joke? Seriously, it's starting to get 2retarded4me.

food you eat food.

trying out plant-based recipes and incorporating more vegetables or fruits to your diet in order to make it more diverse is always a good idea, but veganism itself is a dumb example of extremism that's risky of your body and the only gain you get from this is a satisfaction from following certain morals

I think this is the most reasonable consensus

>the experts talking in the documentary

They're expert vegan proselytizers all right

I'd rather neck myself

if you prefer to eat sausages containing assholes & trotters then that's up to you this food looks more attractive than death to me

...

..

There's only one vegan expert in that entier video though, maybe you should work on your own bias my friend.

>anthropomorphizing animals is not extreme
thanks /r/furry

whats the difference between human's & animals?

Evolution.
Animals are bred for our consumption. Maybe one day we cab come up with a pill that gives,me 4k calories and 200grams of protein in one sitting. Until then enjoy eating 7 meals a day for a,nearly 150 grams of protein I'll be over here eating a couple burgers and a,protein shake for 4k cals and 200 grams of protein.
Being vegan is fine if you use vitamins but it has no place in the body building community. Lifting to be bigger than a twink bitch boy and having to eat insane amount of calories isn't convenient with veganisn.
It's hard enough and time consuming enough to eat a few burgers and other shot to get 4k calories what makes you think a serious lifter would want to make that even harder?
The poor animals?
You're on the wrong site. Go preach to normies on Reddit and fscebook.

>anthropomorphizing

In what way did what I say translate into "you must be vegan to be healthy"?

Look at the healthiest populations in europe(sardinia and other islands in the mediterranean), they are not vegan, they just heavily reduce meat intake and rely on plant based foods for the vast majority of their nutrients.

>protein shakes are exclusive to non vegetarians/vegans
>high calorie foods are exclusive to non vegetarians/vegans

What the fuck

>call out the politically correct plant-based code word for what it is
>get triggered
really made me think

That was for a movie.

>you should eat 17 meals a day to get your cals and protein in to look like this vs 2 burgers and a decent meal.

Body building and being vegan are not compatible sorry.

empathy

henchherbivore.com/

I was merely correcting you, sorry if you're offended.
In the entire documentary the only dietitian expert and actual doctor who is a vegan is Dr. Michael Greger.
Every other one is vegetarian or on an optimized omnivore diet.

Did you read what I said you fucking mongoloid. I'm not saying you CAN'T get an insane amount of calories in as a,vegan or vegetarian I'm saying it's insanely time consuming and the portions you'd have to eat would be bigger and more inbetween. It's ALRDY hard enough getting 4k cals in regularly.
I'm saying it's not convenient. Not tgat you can't do it. Or that it isn't healthier.

This board is for people that want to get big. No one here will change