Bulking is a meme

Prove that you don't. Prove decades of weightlifting science wrong.

Typical broscientist up in here.

There's something called the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. Wherein you have to PROVE that bulking is necessary to gain muscle. I don't have to prove a negative.

Want me to to also prove how unicorn's don't exist?

Veeky Forums's stupidity as usual, ladies and gents.

I know you're shitposting, but to what end? Are you a mad fatty or what? What do you gain from shitting up Veeky Forums?

Fuck off newfag
Bodybuilders get a tan so that their muscles are more visible and defined under the lights during a competition.

*sigh*

I'm only trying to help you see the light. Keep bulking and being fat for all I care. I'll stay lean and build muscle.

Maybe this will help you brain out.

Muscle can only grow at such a fast rate, depending on experience and how much muscle you have already gained.

Adequate calories and protein are necessary for muscular development. Notice I said ADEQUATE, not surplus.

Any excessive calories are turned into fat and stored.

Fat can't be converted to muscle (WHOA, SHOCKER)

THUS, ANY EXCESS CALORIES ARE TURNED INTO FAT.

BULKING IS A MEME.

Read some research articles or something. Jeez.

So then how much protein and calories do I eat?

I don't know your damn body. Experiment.

One place I can recommend for general supplement advice is Examine. They have good stuff.

What I can tell you is that 0.54 g/lb bodyweight is more than enough to build muscle if you're a general workout person. 0.64 g/lb is pretty damn safe.

I'm really not trying to troll this thread. When I say bulking is a meme, I mean it from the bottom of my heart. You can only gain muscle so quickly. Excess calories just turn to fat.

post your no calorie surplus body and lifting stats, i want a good laugh

You're like an ant trying to insult the sun.

You mean nothing to me.

...

>Wherein you have to PROVE that bulking is necessary to gain muscle
its common sense and observable in nature

>eat big
>lift big
>get big
you cannot gain muscle eating at maintenance simply because you're burning the calories and not making up for it by eating to compensate.

David Laid has never been on a cut, if you watch his videos he's always bulking

that's what i thought, skinnyfat DYEL

>Dat feeling when people don't know how thermodynamics works

Incorrect. Bulking leads to fat. Case closed.

You can eat at maintenance, and still gain muscle.

Although "maintenance", "cutting", and "bulking" are all somewhat subjective terms.

If by maintenance you mean eating enough calories to sustain where you at and have the body do its work, then yes, you can build muscle by definition. Since your body will require a tiny bit more calories to do their work to rebuilt any torn muscle mass. Really, the body doesn't need many extra calories to rebuild some torn muscle.

This is not bulking by definition, since any excess calories would go to fat. All calories are used by the body.

Again. Read an article sometime.

BULKING LEADS TO FAT. THIS IS FACT.

Ah, a tiny little ant going by. How cute. Your brain can't comprehend the greatness of this universe, let alone simple thermodynamics.

Cute little ant. I am the sun. You cannot hurt me. You cannot phase me. Go on your merry way, little ant. Go on your way.

trips wasted, go the fuck back

So basically you're just talking about what most refer to as lean bulking, where you just eat enough over your non-anabolic maintenance to build muscle? That's the ideal of course, if you could find out exactly how many calories your body is going to need to build the exact amount of muscle whose growth you stimulated for that given workout, but that's unrealistic and you're always going to be above or below that number, which either necessitates cuts which slow progress or inherently slows progress by growing less muscle per workout session. In theory you can do it either way, if you prefer being lean you can keep a conservative "surplus" and if you prefer faster initial progress with a period of downtime then go for a more liberal one.

>fat can turn into muscle

-the post

What is this? Reasonable discourse in Veeky Forums thread. How delightful.

To be honest, I simply don't like the term "bulk" either way. People just take it as an excuse to eat, get fat, and say "but muh muscle".

You can call that lean bulking if you wish.

My point is only that bulking by definition leads to fat storage. People seem to think that bulking leads to faster muscle gain or something, which is just not true.

Some may say I'm playing with semantics, but the devil is in the details. And I mean, seriously. How many people have fallen prey to the bulking meme? Too many for my taste.

I just want to open eyes, even if some may get pissed.

literally watching American Psycho right now
>hip to be square

I bet you won't post a picture of yourself though, cause you took a vow to never post a pic of your body on Veeky Forums right?j Go ahead and show us that shredded body faggot.

Prove to me that surplus caloric intake has no effect on muscle growth. With actual scientific research. How can you gain muscle mass without a caloric surplus? I'm talking mass/size not strength/aesthetics

Oh, look. Another ant.

Simple. Your body needs calories to do its functions. This includes repairing any torn muscle fibers from exercise. You go over that, and that turns to fat.

If surplus caloric intake had an effect on muscle growth, we'd have a bodybuilder epidemic, not an obesity epidemic.

Do people actually do well in competitions with bad roid gut like that? It seems like delusion at this point.

>I am a adonis
>fear my intestinal girth

And you're calling other posts broscience? Show me a real research article or fuck off with your retarded bullshit

Bryner RW. Effects of resistance training vs. Aerobic training combined with an 800 calorie liquid diet on
lean body mass and resting metabolic rate. Journal of the American College of Nutrition
1999; 18(1): 115-121

Rice B, Janssen I, Hudson, R, Ross R. Effects of aerobic or resistance exercise and/or diet on glucose
tolerance and plasma insulin levels in obese men. Diabetes Care 1999; 22: 684-691

anssen I, et al. Effects of an energy
-
restr
ictive diet with or without exercise on abdominal fat,
intermuscular fat, and metabolic risk factors in obese women. Diabetes Care 2002; 25:431-438

Chomentowski P, et al.
Moderate Exercise Attenuates the Loss of Skeletal Muscle
Mass That Occurs With Int
entional Caloric Restriction
–
Induced Weight Loss in Older, Overweight to Obese
Adults.
Journal of Gerontology: MEDICAL
SCIENCES
.
2009. Vol. 64A, No. 5, 575–580

Marks BL, Ward A, Morris DH, Castellani J, and Rippe RM. Fat
-
free mass is maintained in wom
en
following a moderate diet and exercise program. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 1995; 27(9):
1243-51

Gjedsted J, Gormsen L, Buhl M, Norrelund H, Schmitz, Keiding S, Tonnesen E, Moller N. Forearm and leg
amino acids metabolism in the basa
l state and during combined insulin and amino acid stimulation after a
3-day fast. Acta Physiologica. 2009; (6): 1-9.

Gibala MJ, Interisano SA, Tarnopolsky MA et al. (2000) Myofibrillar disruption following acute concentric
and eccentric resistance exe
rcise in strength-trained men. Can J Physiol Pharmacol 78, 656–661

What I believe he means is that calories required to repair and grow muscles shouldn't be considered "over" your maintenance but rather calculated as part of it. Its mostly an issue of semantics.

Pretty much.

I got tons of more articles for this. A book I highly recommend is Eat. Stop. Eat. Over 300 references to whet your appetite.

Like I said. I'm not trying to troll. I just want to open Veeky Forums's eyes if they want to open them.

Trolling can be fun. I know that. But I'm not doing that with this thread.

This guy gets it

How many calories is that usually?

Guess what. You don't build muscle without those extra calories.you simply maintain, you can gain strength though.also not any excess calories turn into fat. There's a range of different things that vary, you can't just assume that 300 extra calories are gonna contribute to pure fat. Last I checked, your body builds muscle easier in a surplus. Stop being a cuck and grow a pair and bulk.this is why your always gonna be small.people like you ruin this board

when I stopped lifting and just started running, and then when I came back to the gym to try to bench, I was still at the weight I left off at

you're dumb

>Guess what. You don't build muscle without those extra calories.you simply maintain,
Imagine being this retarded.

jeeze, and here I figured the entire point of bulking was so that you didn't have to meticulously calculate your macro/caloric intake while focusing on lifting for a period.

i mean it's not like at a certain level of body fat you need to turn your diet into a full time job even just to maintain let alone gain, which most people don't want to deal with

People can't handle truth.

The thing about Veeky Forums is that most of the people here don't actually want to get fit - let's face it, this is a forum for lifting, not fitness. People who ask questions about calisthenics or anything other than constantly gorging yourself with food and lifting heavy weights so that you look like some giant monster are met with roars of laughter. Not surprising that steroid use is so popular here, when in reality most serious body-builders who aren't competing professionally shun those kinds of losers.

The average person here likes the idea of "bulking" because it means that they don't have to have the discipline to control their calories or stop eating junk food. How many times have I see threads where someone is justifying eating Wendy's or McDonald's almost daily and simultaneously trying to masquerade like their some kind of fitness expert? Most of the dudes here are just guys with big arms and fat bellies who will die of a heart attack in their 50s before they'll stop eating crap.

The funny thing is, if you actually eat clean for a small three months, you won't actually want to eat junk food. It'll make you sick.

B-B-But user, my trainer says the only way to gain muscle is by eating above my TDEE. He wouldn't lie to me, would he? I already pay $45 a session, which is a discount from his regular $65 since I paid for 50 of them upfront. He even gave me my macro breakdown of 50/30/20.

Worked for me.

Idgaf what you think unless you can show me your better results doing it another way.

Look at that. Mostly fat until you cut. Thanks for proving my point. Your muscles didn't grow any faster by "powerbulking". But you did get fatter.

Not to shit on your results, or anything. I'm just saying that the bulk mostly contributed to fat. This can clearly be seen in the pictures.

Nice gains, though. The only critique I have is. What about legs? And chest is just a tad laggin, unless you dig the dense chest look, which is cool, too.

>Dat dere trainer gains of $45/session for 50 sessions

Is that what trainers mean by their set/rep scheme? XD

Long term gainzzzz

Haha, well it is Veeky Forums, my friend.

It's so unfortunate when Veeky Forums, a board that tries to dedicate itself to FITNESS, doesn't even know how simple thermodynamics and human biology works.

I nearly spiraled into depression just writing that.

So then what really gets you big? The amount of protein you intake?

Have you considered that perhaps low body fat makes it easier to see muscle?

I will say something from my personal experience, I've been lifting since the past 5 months and I'm on a cut. I know I'm a beginner, but I've noticed that as long as I was fulfilling my daily protein needs and keeping -500 calories deficit I was still able to gain muscle mass.

You should be in a calorie surplus for 2-3 years before you cut. Use the 2-3 years to build up your strength, size, and overall muscular development. Then you can do a big cut, and bam, you're now muscular and lean.

After that point, you can then begin to do mini-bulks and mini-cuts and never actually """bulk""" again.

But you're shit cunt faggot who will spin your wheels for years if you never actually man the fuck up and bulk for a long period of time in your intro.

GOLEM GET YE GONE

>Mostly fat until you cut

Not really, he is 20lbs heavier, while being leaner than his dyel starting point.

Fuuuuck this is so cringe dude,atleast post your body to back up your shit man.500kcal surplus has always been testd and proved to give advantages over deficits for putting on mass and getting stronger.

Go ahead and explain a bit of them thermodynamics and that human biology man,you dont need to bulk to gain muscle but it helps eating more to an extent.Whats to be discussed here?

At 250 lbs.

The best way to improve your gains/recovery is improving your sleep hours/quality.

youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3AG-oCXTE

When my body fat percentage went up but my lifts didn't. Began as a DYEL, ended up a fat DYEL. I swear I feel for every fucking meme. You know what? Fuck SS, fuck deadlifts, fuck this amateur powerlifting bullshit.

I realised it's all a fucking meme when I realised that not only do I have no idea what Zyzz's lifts were, but I absolutely don't give a shit what his lifts were. I want the look, I don't care if I'm only lifting baby weights anymore. Fuck this bullshit 1RM pissing contest.

where is that pic from? i need to see that video

You don't magically gain more muscle by eating way too much. Your body can only build so much new muscle at a time. If you just pour more calories in they will just be converted to fat. It's like dumping water into a cup that's already full. You can't fill it up more.

Tldr you're an idiot

You could have done the same thing without having to go into a cut where you stop building muscle. Eat at a sustainable surplus forever, never get fat, never cut, always slow bulking. Not just getting fat

you've been playing with words from the beginning of your thread
shut your whore mouth

Is this literally your first day here?

Honestly, its like you're talking about a completely different place. Are you one of these autists that can't tell when people are taking the piss?

What a stupid fucking bait thread. I would elaborate, but anyone with a brain and a basic understanding of biology know that you cannot circumvent the first law of thermodynamics. Fuck off OP, saged.

Tom Platz of abs!

Some reality tv show. I really can't pinpoint the name atm.

That one wasn't me, though. Just another smart Veeky Forumsizen.

Consider it bait if you want. Powerbulk all you want. Tell me how your heart disease is later on.

Apparently this concept is too hard for Veeky Forums to wrap its collective head around.

This guy gets it.

It's probably a case of the noob gains brah. You should be able to gain muscle and lose fat when you begin weight lifting, but the body loses the ability to do this very quickly, so you'll quickly find that you have to stick to one or the other.

Semantics argument aside, OP does have some merit. Bulking helps facilitate muscle growth. But most people grossly overestimate the amount of excess energy "required" for that help, pass well over it, and accumulate fat that they didn't need to gain. It's more important to meet specific requirements like protein intake than it is to meet abstracted general calorie amounts.

And fuck me for being unable to find it, I swear the study was somewhere in the harshfit wiki sources: You can gain muscle while cutting. And no it's not limited to noob gains.

Idk op i spent years going from maintaining to cutting and i only ever got stronger and more defined while eating a surplus.

Yeah, I'm a bit fat but i am stronger now than ever before.

All you need are adequate calorie and protein intake to build muscle. Anything over will get converted to fat.

Idk why people don't get this?

He speaks the truth

It's entirely and issue of sematics, and OP is the single cringiest fucking poster i have probably ever seen on here,

Wow, thank you. That means SO much to me.

I'll treasure this moment for the rest of my life.

you build muscle x10 faster on a bulk, you are also stronger while bulking, so because you are lifting heavy weights, your body will get stronger too.

You cannot build muscle at maintanence. Even n00b gains are retarded to the point that it doesn't matter. Where as a regular n00bie to the gym will put on a lb to half a lb of muscle a week, trying to put on muscle while cutting is literally an uphill battle. Its hard enough to maintain current muscle mass let alone build more. You might gain up to 0.2-0.3 lb of muscle a week, which is very inefficient compared to what your body can do with a proper surplus.

And by Caloric surplus I mean 500-800 over maintenance. Do not fucking eat 5000 calories if your maintenance is only 3000. You won't build muscle faster with a 2000 calorie surplus if you only needed a 800 calorie surplus. Unless you are on gear, in which case traditional advice falls out of the window. The problem is that young guys see these pros taking 5000 calories a day, and they think if they jump on his diet, they will somehow magically get to where he is at faster, forgetting the years of work he had to get there and all the gear he is on. You don't need 5000 calories if you are 5'6 140 lb soaking wet. You literally don't have enough muscle mass to justify that much food. Thats why people think bulking makes you fat. Its cause dumbfucks are extremists about everything.

If you bulk correctly, you will put on more muscle than eating at maintanence, while putting on minimal fat. Get a food scale, and track your freaking calories man. Its not hard to be accurate.

>"you build muscle x10 faster on a bulk"

you outed yourself with this one, m8

>building muscle is part of bodily function
>calories needed for function
>excess calories turned to fat

simple, m8

op semantics aside; he makes sense

but still ass

Recomp works but it is slow. Bulking/cutting tend to be more efficient to building muscle. That's just how it works OP, you gigantic faggot

Who here /eternalbulk/

anyone who has been lifting for multiple years already understands this

good fucking luck going from 500lb deadlift to 585 deadlift without a caloric surplus, it will not happen unless you are a genetic anomaly

youtube.com/watch?v=5pkbrTpKaj4

>Mike is a professor of Exercise Science at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA and was previously a professor at the University of Central Missouri, where he taught Exercise Physiology, Personal Training, and Advanced Programming for sports and fitness. Mike’s PhD is in Sport Physiology, and he has been a consultant on sports nutrition to the U.S. Olympic Training Site in Johnson City, TN.

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

>The simple fact is that a bodybuilder who refuses to gain any fat and doesn’t put on any muscle between shows won’t be improving year to year. Unless they have perfect symmetry, size, shape, etc. their fear of body fat is preventing them from ever getting any better.

Eric Helms on bulking
youtube.com/watch?v=ud7CnPJcK6U

>Eric has published multiple peer reviewed articles in exercise science and nutrition journals and writes for commercial fitness publications. He’s taught undergraduate and graduate level nutrition and exercise science and speaks internationally at academic and commercial conferences for fitness, nutrition and strength and conditioning. He has a BS in fitness and wellness, an MS in exercise science, a second masters in sports nutrition, and is a strength and conditioning PhD candidate at AUT in New Zealand.

every top guy in the sports nutrition field agrees on this one, and not in your favor OP - a caloric surplus is necessary for gains once you are intermediate/advanced and not a weak shit like yourself

>Have fun becoming fat
>Have fun with coronary heart disease
>Have fun with prediabetes
>Have fun with diabetes
>Have fun with necrosis of your legs
>Have fun not squatting or deadlifting
>Have fun being a dyel your whole life

Btw, posting YouTube links and a crappy *.com site as references ... KEK

it literally does you fucking mongoloid. what do you think its purpose is? to make your ass jiggle while u giggle?

ya. retards think they will do a bulking cycle for 6 months and majestically emerge like a butterfly looking like zyzz. it takes time to build muscle, if your skinny fat, cut.

eating in a surplus is good, bulking til you get tits is retarded as fuck.

sounds like you got btfo and don't have a response

retard

dude youre trying to make op look like an ass and then use argument from authority as your reasoning

smert. real smert

>op posts real references
>user posts YT videos as refs
>kekkles

it's from "my big fat fabulous life" but I can't find that clip
this is a video of her "dancing" though
youtube.com/watch?v=L5mThxsj_1k

My friend is 170lbs. He started lifting about 2 months ago. He started with 185 squat, 75 ohp, 115 bench, and 185 deadlift. He didn't change his diet and obviously did not go on a caloric surplus. Sometimes he would even miss a meal. After those 2 months he is still 170, squat is 205, ohp is 85, deadlift is still 185. He would complain about not having enough energy sometimes and wonders why lifting seems to get a bit harder each time. He has been stuck with these stats for 3 weeks now.

If you don't go on a caloric surplus, don't expect to improve on lifts. You may as well just start bodybuilding at this point which is what im assuming OP is getting at.

dunno why i kept writing in 2 months, i meant 1 month.
I know this isn't much time but his progress is definitely slow.