Looking for an honest discussion about general health and fitness when it comes to diet...

>Are you saying foods that leave out meat/egg/dairy cannot be tasty or enjoyable whilst at the same time being healthy and nutritious?

No, nobody said that.
I'm saying people enjoy meat and eggs and dairy to a point that means they are not really interested in giving them up for health reasons.

Whether you think that is wrong or sad is irrelevant, its your problem, not theirs.

We're obviously not going to ever settle this subject with intellectual arguments and conversation. I recommend a traditional trial by combat. If I can beat the shit out of you, then veganism is bullshit, and you will have to sit there and eat a cheeseburger in front of me and the whole world. Deal?

All the evidence and research not backed by meat and dairy industries back these claims, the WHO even places the most common of meats consumed by western society as type 1 carcinogens alongside tobacco and asbestos.

Not me, a little too aggressive for my liking.

I'd say the reverse is true and you have fallen for the carnivorous diet propaganda. What do vegans have to gain from their beliefs and activism? What do the meat and dairy industry have to gain for theirs? It's pretty simple.
No one is dictating what you eat, this is a fitness board and in the interest of health and fitness its a reasonable question and akin to asking why one would eat macdonalds if they want to remain fit and healthy.

>irrefutably unhealthy food groups like meat, eggs and dairy

>implying

>whilst avoiding say high fat diets

I don't avoid a high fat diet.

>No one is dictating what you eat, this is a fitness board and in the interest of health and fitness its a reasonable question and akin to asking why one would eat macdonalds if they want to remain fit and healthy.

And the answer is simple.
Balance.
People may enjoy unhealthy things. The same people may enjoy being fit. It is up to them, and them alone, how they compromise between these two things.

If you were entirely pursuing 100% fitness and health above all else then you would never set foot in a city without a gas mask for example. The things you might view as not worth the compromise for health reasons, are only your own opinion.

And we had a life expectancy of

Listen, faggot: I'm over 50 years old. I eat meat EVERY SINGLE DAY and have my whole life. My colon is spotlessly clean. I'm disgustingly healthy. My LDLs are low, my HDLs are high, my heart is strong as an elephant. I have no traces of the usual bullshit diseases that most people my age have (diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc). I race bikes on a bike racing team; I'll be going out for a 50 mile race this morning in fact. Telling me that eating meat and animals products is 'unhealthy' makes me laugh; I'm healthier and stronger than the vast majority of you little shits. Your 'bait' is pathetic, old, busted, from Last Thursday, and nobody has any respect for you and your bullshit. GO BACK TO .

Can I use those protein supplements if I don't work out?

I am worried about my hair loss and I want to make sure it's not due to my diet. I definitely don't get enough protein. I don't know how I'm supposed to eat 60+ grams of it daily, so I was thinking about using those supplements.
Does anyone do that or won't it work?

Is this free advertising or something? Nobody is watching this trash, and certainly not paying for it.

Nice bait. Much replies. Have some sage on your soylent green.

If you're truly interested in health, watch this.

>I'm more concerned with people who actively pursue a life of health and fitness

Its not a black and white issue.

Either way, the only people who dedicate their entire lives to fitness, don't tend to eat unhealthy foods. Those are people whos life goals and careers rely on their peak performance. The only other people who make that kind of commitment are people who have nothing else going for them and so they shitpost on Veeky Forums about it because they need to feel superior about something.

Enjoying "bad" things is part of human nature and is part of a healthy life. Health isn't all about physiology.

Until you pussies come up with a proper cheese replacement, none of us are going to stop "torturing" animals. Also you faggots should stop overpricing your foods.

congress said pizza had a serving of vegetables in it, aka tomato sauce.

retarded children binge ate pizza daily for years before this decision yet it is somehow congress's fault

eat meat

Saturated fat, cholesterol, heme iron, heterocyclic amines to name a few. These things are not just assumed to be unhealthy.
Good point, I think practicality is important when discussing health and fitness, if that is your goa. We can at least agree avoiding certain foods like most people concerned with fitness would like mcdonalds is a lot more practical then never stepping foot in a city.

I'm trying to, but it's just too much. I can't force myself and it's expensive.

saturated fat and dietary cholesterol aren't unhealthy, mr 1990s

mfw when i fall for the vegan shills
and realize its all about not eating animal stuff instead of a balanced diet

> pic related perfect vegan diet

vegans treat it like the second cumming of jesus, and praise their benefits they got. yet fail to see from swapping from a garbe diet to a balanced diet.
90% goes like this eat trash at college since free choice of mc shit and ramen- feel like trash because you eat trash- join the fad to orbit some hippy chick that puts out- follow balanced diet for the first time. OMG TRY VEGAN ITS MAGIC

jesus christ what the fuck, buy some deli meat and make a sandwich, thats like halfway there in one easy meal

>I don't know how I'm supposed to eat 60+ grams of it daily
4 cups of black beans or pinto beans or kidney beans blah blah blah blah you get the idea

Am I calculating this wrong?

Yesterday I had:

>4 eggs = 20g
>3 glasses of milk = 18g
>some salami = 10g
>whole wheat bread = 5g

That was a good day and I barely got to 60g. I weight 65kg (178cm) and I assume I have to eat at least 90g?

I guess I'll try, but that sounds like a lot to eat.

There are also many smokers that live to the ripe old age of 90, and we know for a fact that smoking is incredibly unhealthy. You are health in spite of what you eat, not because of it.

That's true, not everyone here devotes every aspect of their lives to health and fitness. But a lot do try to optimise their day to day fitness, avoiding cigarettes and alcohol which have no substitutes but consuming similarly unhealthy things like meat and dairy when their are a plethora of options out there equally as satisfying.

The thing I hated about this "documentary" is the guy kept badgering customer service folks for dramatic effect. Listen, man, they're just trying to earn a paycheck.

There's no panacea for health. All our bodies are different and all our goals are different. If I want to he a sexy yoga instructor, I'll be vegan. If I want to be a swol body builder, I'll eat 36 egg whites. If I'm diabetic, I'll abstain from refined carbs and sugar.

The science is ultimately too conflicting to every say: This is the true diet.

>that sounds like a lot to eat.
It's 1000 calories it damn well better feel like a lot!

There is a direct association and link with saturated fat, cholesterol and heart disease/cancer. This isn't a topic up for debate.

A balanced diet by definition is eating enough food and types of food in order to get all the nutrients you require for good health. Eating meat and dairy opposes this definition as it promotes bad health.

It's also 44g of fibre. You people are insane.

> If I want to be a swol body builder, I'll eat 36 egg whites.

Why?

My wholebread has 14g of protein per 100g. You can find better bread out there mate.

Salami is shit nutritionally and you can probably find ham that has more protein and costs less.

I don't mind the fiber. I could actually use it, because I have hemorrhoids and right now I'm using magnesium mineral water to soften my stool. I don't know, I'm kind of desperate and I might actually try the protein supplements if I don't manage to eat enough regularly.

I just did a quick search and apparently the 1,5g per kg weight isn't exactly true (says in my textbooks). Would a normal person that doesn't work out need less?

>has 14g of protein per 100g.
It says 10g per 100g on mine, but I only ate like 50g of it.

I can't even imagine the amount of food people who work out have to eat to satisfy their daily demands.

129 grams of protons

If you're gonna eat an assload of fiber you should know it will take a bit of time for your body to get used to it. Don't get scared.

That's a cop out statement, the science is clear, the only conflicting evidence you will see is by "research" performed and backed by the meat, egg and dairy industries.

Insulin resistance and therefore diabetes by the way is caused firstly by fat interfering with glycogen storage not a high carb diet. This is a common misconception.

Can you prove that every single body of research is in fact conspiratorially funded by meat and dairy companies?

Diabetes is a result of your pancreas not producing enough insulin you retard. When people stopped eating fat and cramming sugar into all our foods to make them taste decent, diabetes skyrocketed.

I'm one person and my asshole health has been fine. If that much fiber is somehow too much for you then you should drink a little more water.

examine.com/nutrition/is-saturated-fat-bad-for-me/?PageSpeed=noscript

If veganism is healthy then why do their teeth and hair fall out? Really tell me. I can't afford tooth implants.

Find me any body of evidence that supports meat and dairy consumption in favour of health and longevity that isn't backed by these industries. It's not a conspiracy when the research clearly states the sponsors and funding.

Type 2 diabetes is so prevalent in obese individuals why? Its the fat. That is how insulin resistance develops and causes high blood sugar. Carbs alone will never cause diabetes unless you are eating a drastic surplus of calories which would cause weight gain and fat storage anyway.

Oh hey, it's Nina Teicholz, who is funded by the meat and pharmaceuticals industries.

>Saturated fat, as an all-inclusive category, has not yet been shown to beneficially or adversely affect heart health.
This is false.

>All major studies on saturated fats merely look at what people ingest
This is a laughably obvious lie. Not only do we have many high-quality interventional studies, we also have in-depth mechanistic knowledge of why and how saturated fat is harmful.

>meat
>eggs
>dairy
>cigarettes
>unhealthy

Post physique you fucking loser

Vegans aren't elite nutritionists they too can fall for nutrient deficiencies by eating the wrong foods, their are plenty of vegans with a full head of hair and full set of teeth.

Lol, first study cited is Mozaffarian (funded by Bunge, the largest producer of refined fat on the planet).
The ride never ends with these jokers.
>lol I am so smart I cited Mozaffarian and Siri-Tarino xxxDDD omg everything we knew is wrong

>It's 1000 calories it damn well better feel like a lot!

No, it SHOULDN'T feel like a lot, because then it makes eating (and shitting, and sharing elevators) a chore for people with high calorie requirements.

>all research performed and backed by people I don't like is wrong
>all research performed and backed by people I like is right

If you have to micromanage your diet like an autist it isn't worth it for most people.

Ok.
Post yours now.

I'm vegan and I have all of my teeth and a head full of hair, my brother and father went bald in their late teens. I was always the one who ate the least saturated fats and cholesterol and it shows.

Only raw vegan fruitarian retards who don't wash their teeth lose their teeth, and the whole hair loss thing is mainly found in meat eaters, not vegans.

>Carbs alone will never cause diabetes unless you are eating a drastic surplus of calories which would cause weight gain and fat storage anyway.

explain how non-fat people get diabetes then.

t-those tiddies
n-no homo user

Except in this case the animal agriculture industries have massive incentive to bullshit. Where is the incentive for others?

If you what you eat is of detriment to society and environment as a whole, then of course it matters to other people, you fucking psycho.

>Saturated fat, cholesterol, heme iron, heterocyclic amines
If you eat any kind of aerobic organism you're consuming all of those, retard.

Its no more effort of micromanaging your nutrients then the standard western diet.

>Where is the incentive for others?

The sheer pleasure of moralist nagging. Oh, and also the agriculture industry, because apparently you forgot that crops don't just manifest themselves onto your plate from the aether.

Imagine being this much of a beta.

I'm impressed with this shit post. Usually its just the vegan general thread but it always runs its course due to all the links of goverment survays thst prove things like vegan linked to low test, no gainz, vitamin deficiency, etc. But here you dont have it phrased the same. You didnt start with the word vegan.

My only question, but I doubt I'd get an actual answer. Is why do you feel the need to shit post this thread? I can see two possibilities. One is your board and this is kinda entertaining. The other is you're generally seeking validation. I don't know why but for some reason you think that arguing with people on a Norwegian basket weaving forum about veganism os going to make you feel better.

Tell me about yourself user. Why do you do this

Everyone has incentive to bullshit. Looks like somebody failed their high school psychology class.

t. dyel alpha wannabe who can't stop eating his mommy's tendies

>Woah I literally have no idea why someone would spend time to discuss diet and health on a fitness board

Gee man, you know.. I really have no idea why OP would do this.

Skinny people still have fat, typically lower muscle mass and genetics also play a role.

Insulin resistance, which ironically can be caused by fat gain in general regardless of carbs/fats eaten.

Also, you do know that diabetes can be treated with a high carb diet right?
Sugar obviously makes it worse, but carbs themselves don't, specially if you eat any fibre at all.

Give me no more than 4 foods I can eat daily without having to worry about lacking necessarily nutrients. I don't want to have to juggle 20 plants.

>t. dyel alpha wannabe who can't stop eating his mommy's tendies

What an embarrassing post.

dietary fat alone doesn't make you fat. Eating excess calories does. So eating a lot of carbs and fat makes you fat. It's even possible to get fat just eating carbs.

How do I stomach sardines, senpai?

>irrefutably unhealthy food groups like meat, eggs and dairy
Post actual sources for this. Don't say "WHO said so, other said so, muh funding".

...

>eggs
Good job at literally eating the only food worse than dairy and fatty animal meat.

>keto
Enjoy your "good" cholesterol muh dude.

Blaming cholesterol for heart disease is literally the same as blaming firemen for fires.

>All the evidence and research not backed by meat and dairy industries back these claims
Yeah, it's all a conspiracy.

Its a lot harder to store fat as carbohydrates than it is fat. Excess carbs are stored as glycogen in muscle tissue. Its very very difficult to eat a high carb low or no fat diet and gain fat.

What these researchers found was that the prevalence rate of depressive disorders were around 15% higher in the group of vegetarians, not a small percentage by any means. >Moreover, the prevalence rate for anxiety disorders was higher by around 12% as well. And that’s not the end of it. While the prevalence rate of eating disorders in the omnivore group was around 1%, for vegetarians it was 5,6%.

>These differences range from small; eating disorders, to rather high; depressive disorders. All of them were statistically significant – thus meaning it is highly unlikely they happened by chance. The interesting thing to note with the third group which was involved, partial vegetarians, was that they were always between the other two, as far as prevalence rates of different disorders go.

Vegetarian eating has an all-star health rep—but according to a new study published in the journal PLOS ONE, vegetarians may actually be less healthy than meat eaters, on average. ... They found that vegetarians had higher incidences of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders than their carnivorous counterparts.

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2014/03/19/dietary-fat-and-heart-disease-study-is-seriously-misleading/

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2016/12/19/saturated-fat-regardless-of-type-found-linked-with-increased-heart-disease-risk/

That's just a couple

That is true, but you expend carbs at a higher rate than fats, so if your diet contains too many carbs you will store the fats you don't expend on energy. So to lose weight it is often a good idea to limit carbs rather than fat in your diet.

Betting those results are because depressed, anxious and eating disordered individuals more like to be vegetarians in order to fix them self

...

>Betting
Bets totally makes me feel safe

This
>breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
>authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>https:/press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/true-or-false-dairy-is-toxic-hormone.html
Also highly doubt the"milk=prostate cancer" entirely especially when in the article it says:
>Estrone and prostate cancer risk in men: As far as the estrone levels Maruyama et al. measured in their 2010 study are concerned it is very difficult to tell, whether or not the 26% increase in E2 levels is or isn't a problem.
>The estrone values in the Maruyama study are unrealistic. With a normal range of difficult to tell
>unrealistic
and
>What remains to be seen, though, is whether future epidemiological evidence will support or refute the currently heralded hypothesis that dairy consumption increases prostate cancer risk and whether we will be able to identify more feasible explanations for this relations than those that are implicated by the results Maruyama et al. present in their 2010 study.
>(cont.)

>j-just buy creatine supplements goy

>(cont.)
>All the evidence and research not backed by meat and dairy industries back these claims, the WHO even places the most common of meats consumed by western society as type 1 carcinogens alongside tobacco and asbestos.
>diagnosisdiet.com/meat-and-cancer/
>chriskresser.com/red-meat-cancer-again-will-it-ever-stop/
>mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/meat-cancer-bacon-who-report-mens-fitness-health
>rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ >foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>deniseminger.com/the-china-study/
>westonaprice.org/our-blogs/the-curious-case-of-campbells-rats-does-protein-deficiency-prevent-cancer/
>westonaprice.org/our-blogs/taking-a-trip-down-memory-lane-fishing-for-our-good-friend-glutathione-in-the-waters-of-the-memory-hole-how-t-colin-campbell-helped-prove-that-protein-protects-us
>reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1zjlm/scienceanimal_protein_rich_diets_could_be_harmful/cfupxyt/?st=j403pmhn&sh=b3278c44
>caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/
>saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2014/03/05/dietary-protein-health-and-mortality-experts-respond/

>vegans have much lower testosterone levels than their meat-eating counterparts

youtube.com/watch?v=uQzILxkd3M8

>all those muscle websites, blogs and bullshit with no credible sources

Not him, not a vegan, not a trustworthy guy, but apparently you can solely eat potatoes and be fine. Look into it.

Do you people really get a kick out of this faggot autistically spamming dozens of links like it's an "I WIN!" button?

>cholesterol is crucial and used to make steroid hormones like testosterone
Human body synthesizes its own cholesterol, humans don't need to eat cholesterol.
>Creatine and Carnosine are essential
They are not, they're literally NOT essential, and your body produces its own creatine, carnosine is no necessary for proper bodily function.

>muh saturated fats
Caloric intake has been correlated with higher testosterone, higher dairy intake has been correlated with higher estrogen in males and cancer and lower testosterone.

What's funny is that it's mostly fucking reddit links and random bullshit articles and blogs

also

>mensfitness.com

lmao

And yet only 1 or 2 posts ever call him a faggot for doing it. That makes me think that Veeky Forums is absolutely terrible.

No bullshitting somebody tell me why in the past 4-5 weeks veganism has had a massive spike on Veeky Forums. This documentary came out on March 7th according to wikipedia yet you faggots have only spammed it for the last week.

If I had to guess I would say that it is from the increase in online debates mainly on youtube between vegans and non vegan youtubers.

>it is from the increase in online debates mainly on youtube between vegans and non vegan youtubers.
You gotta mention that it's 1 channel assraping everybody he debates