You can build muscle on a calorie deficit

Well obviously you wont gain weight in total but thats not what op said. He said you cant build muscle on a caloric deficit but thats not always true

Steroids aren't magical fairy dust that converts fat to protein based aminos you nigger fuck.

Doing that much cardio causes hormonal adaptation in your body that prevents muscle growth.
You cannot lose fat and build muscle at the same time.

>burn 1000 through cardio

You have to run like 10 miles a day for that.

Ahahahahha

Keep telling yourself that fatty

"Cardio is haaaarrrrddd"

that's true if you're a beginner or have a high fatpercentage

yes they pretty much are. They did an experiment on that. People lost bf and gained muscle while on steroids and they DIDNT EVEN WORK OUT.

>1 study
>size increases greater in only some body parts
>did not lose fat
>no controls for diet or work
Great study
>he doesn't know what anabolic vs catabolic means

sup yall its me its ya boy asmongold

even if OP's statement is true, it's not worth the time or effort to see what little results you would get (if any)

this I think we can agree on...

This is all I've been reading about lately.

I'm trying to figure out how to go from 25% to 13% while also increasing strength on my lifts.
Everyone says I need to eat at a 500 calorie deficit in order to drop body fat percentage but I feel like this is too large of a percentage and will leave me super weak.

>implying you cant
>implying you dont lose fat faster than you gain muscle
You can gain 2 lbs of muscle a month natty and lose 4 lbs of fat a month. Its a net loss of energy.

Yeah but how much do you eat?

Matter can't be created from nothing. Steroids aren't good and can't literally be used to make muscle.

Of course you can

>he's natty

oh wow, what are you? the LFR raider version of a bodybuilder?

This can be done by cutting 400cals below maintenance. A pound of fat is ~3500 cals and a pound of muscle is ~1700 cals.

Well yeah, it doesn't increase your mass, but it does allow you to cut at a large deficit and maintain basically all of your muscle mass.

Piano can basically slice his calories in half and not lose his strength.

>gain 2 lbs a month natty
>people actually believe this
Maybe if you're a beginner with great programming. You're lucky to gain 20lbs of pure muscle a year on roids after 2-3 years of lifting.

Is no one gonna say anything about this being 100% accurate?

Also that's the entire basis of most strength training programs. Neurological adaptation versus good ol muscular hypertrophy.

Thats what youre supposed to gain as a beginner, yes.

Thanks. 400 makes more sense than people going more than 500.

let the nattycucks chase their pathetic gains. when a natty asks about steroids lie and say they dont do shit, keep it for ourselves

That's not how muscles work. Muscle synthesis requires excess caloric intake. Having large fat stores doesnt matter.

you mean protein sythesis?

You probably actually can under certain circumstances, including being severely undertrained, good hormones (or steroids), good diet + tiny calorie deficit and great training.

>doesn't know what a recomp is

not gonna make it

Nigga you're retarded, go do some googling before you pull this shit

I did 18% to 15% in the last several weeks and my meager gains largely were maintained but I didn't gain more. Still felt pretty good. But I'm a noob.

So it's near impossible to build muscle on a calories deficits but is it still possible to get stronger on a deficit by lifting heavy and getting your CNS use to heavy weights

Literally not good for your heart. Don't call it cardio, call it calorie expenditure, cuz that's all it's good for.

Pretty much what I want to do.

Just curious, what did you cut your calories to, and did any of your lifts improve at all?

I finally started improving my bench and seeing chest gains, and don't really want to start, but there's so much fat over everything

So what the fuck is the point of lifting on a cut then if I'm making 0 gains

never thought i'd see asmongolds face on Veeky Forums

To make sure you don't lose muscle mass/strength. And to burn calories. Are you retarded?

Yes

They actually can, you can eat at maintenance or even below on tren and burn fat and gain muscle. Tren will bind to androgen receptors on fat and literally burn it off.

Preserve muscle mass.

Actually, you can.

t. ex fatty who gained muscles while in caloric deficit and while losing weight

Quite easy, really. Just make sure your protein intake is high while your calories are below TDEE.
Having excess fat helps with that.

It's literally how the body works.

That's not even close to fucking true. First of all, tren is only speculated to cause lipolysis as a SECONDARY property. It only accelerates mobilization of fatty acids. Tren's qualities for cutting are for muscle sparing and strength maintenance. You'd have to be running 700+ to see any lipolytic effect. Have fun dealing with those sides.
Plus who the fuck wants to waste a blast cutting? It's far easier to cut on a trt cruise with dnp and use the blast to make real gains.

Yeah. I've been having similar results.
>losing 8 pounds a month
>developing muscle
>never done any weight training before now or had any muscle.

most strength training programs are absolutely not "neurological adaptation vs. muscular hypertrophy"

a big muscle is a strong muscle, you need enough volume to gain size and then enough specificity, frequency, and work in 80-90%+ ranges to develop neurological adaptations

your body is literally building and breaking down muscle all the time, deficit or surplus

you can absolutely build muscle on a deficit assuming you get the protein, especially if you're using steroids

you wont gain mass, however

This. Can't understand how this is so hard to grasp. Try to explain it and they yell PHYSICS.

You're not building muscle, you're repairing damage from working out. There's a difference.

im sorry but what is ''mass''?

HOW ARE YOU ALL THIS FUCKING DUMB

But you can lose weight and build muscle.

You're fucking dense. Or actually a troll since I've seen several threads like this this week.

>excess caloric intake
the way I understand it is that a small deficit can be compensated for by the energy your lard provides

This. Also don't underestimate how untrained an average person is, for the first 3-4 months such a person can build muscle from everything.

What most people mistake for "big muscle" is actually inflammation and body fat over above average muscle.

>you can enter an anabolic state which requires a calorie surplus and high protein intake by eating at a calorie deficit and lifting heavy weights to put you in a further catabolic state

Lol I love how this kind of comment never actually points out what people are doing wrong.

obese people can

Correct. Your body uses your fat reserves for energy when it's at a caloric deficit.

Mass and weight are used interchangeably even though they're not technically the same thing.

weight = mass * gravity
mass = weight / gravity

Listen here, you skinny faggots. I've been on a cut since May 1st. I've lost 8lbs of fat and I'm at about a 9 - 10% bf. My lifts have only gone up. I've added 5kg to my bench and squat in that time. The most important thing is to eat 2 hours before your workout. I've found that Mesmorph PWO really helps during a cut too.

>You can't build muscle on a calorie deficit

>I've added 5kg to my bench and squat in that time.
Thats good bateman

I've definitely built muscle on an exteme deficit.

Idk if it's optimal, but it's definitely possible to build muscle at any calorie intake as long as you are not extremely thin

It's not optimal, but can be done.
The problem is more nutritional.
If you're eating the right macros you'll build muscle, flat out and lose weight. Eventually at a certain body fat percentage it will plateau though since your body no longer has the internal energy source and will begin to use protein and fat (through the conversion process) to make glucose.
If you're already fat though, yes, yes you can gain muscle.

However odds are on a cut where you're trying to build muscle you won't be hitting all of the minerals, vitamins, and other things you need to build muscle and maintain proper health.

>vigorous stair-climbing for 10-13 minutes
>supposedly burn 250-300 cal depending on the level
>repeat 4 times
>hard

If you're fat enough you can.

so the lesson here is "0 calories in is not the same as 1000 calories in and 1000 calories out"

>Can I build a brick wall with no bricks

so if i have 30kg to lose i can cut by 1-1.5k cal and still put on muscle ?

>eat at caloric deficit
>hit above protein goals and make the rest high fat
>do intermittent fasting at same time
literally building muscle while on a caloric deficit right now

get fucked

Your fat is bricks. The calorie deficit? Guess what it does. It just uses the stored energy in your fat to make up the energy deficit you need to build muscle.

You cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time unless you are in the absolute novice phase of training or introducing steroids into your system.
Your body is designed to survive in the wild where food is not a certain resource that can always be found. In times of famine if your body was burning your long term energy supplies (fat) to survive but also building muscle tissue that actively uses more energy it would be pretty poorly adapted.
Building muscle takes energy, your body is not going to source this energy from your fat stores, that would be the worst adaptation to the environment it evolved in possible.

This is so wrong it's unreal. Your body has evolved to survive, not to build muscle. It's not going to waste carefully gathered fat reserves to build muscle when it thinks it's experiencing a time of famine.

If only there was a way to answer this question in a controlled environment where you can be pretty sure the results are true. Oh wait, there is. It's called a fucking experiment and there have been done a number of them on this exact fucking topic. So instead of spouting your broscience you could try googling about this shit for 2 minutes and find something like this.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8379514

And yes, you can grow muscle while on a caloric deficit if you eat enough protein and lift.

Yes.

Probably not enough to notice visually but your lifts can increase.

...

t. angry roider

Both those studies were on overweight individuals which would imply they would be undergoing weight training as novices. Their relevance to the effects of weight training on a deficit for a trained individual is probably none.

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463

the subjects were obese user

>It's not going to waste carefully gathered fat reserves to build muscle when it thinks it's experiencing a time of famine.
It will if you are using those muscles and have enough energy to physically produce muscle

I didn't say it is possible to gain muscle when on a caloric deficit as an intermediate or advanced lifter. I just wanted to show it is actually physically possible to gain muscle while cutting. There's a shitload of retards in this thread claiming it is impossible in principle.

Your body has evolved to survive in an environment where it has to hunt for food, i.e. it is not in constant supply and could be days between meals.
If you're driving a car that's low on fuel and you're unsure when you'll next reach somewhere to fill up do you think it would be a good idea to use up some of the petrol in your tank to build a bigger engine that will burn fuel faster?
Your body doesn't see a calorific deficit as a tool to cut down on fat, it sees it as food not being available. It's not going to build energetically expensive muscle tissue with the fat that could be keeping you alive through a winter.

My bad, I'm in agreement it's totally possible as a novice.

Youre not starving to death, youre on a slight caloric deficit with plenty of fat stores. Your body is not going to shut down your ability to create muscle because you ate slightly less than you usually do.

So you're saying that your body will experience a calorific deficit and start breaking down fat stores in addition to those it needs to survive just to build muscle? Muscle, which if food continues to be at the same availability, that will push you further and further into deficit? You really think that's what your body has adapted to do?
If the biology wasn't enough consider the physics, you are taking energy out of a system, but you still expect the body to put on mass?

>cardio

You do realize excessive cardio damages heart muscle and running more than 10km a day is correlated with a higher risk of sudden heart failure?

Our paleolithic ancestors did not do cardio. Cardio for them was walking. WALKING. and stalking. Their advantage wasn't in how fast they ran. Their advantage was that bipedal motion uses gravity to make it far more efficient than four legged prey.

You damage prey and you stalk it until it runs out of energy.

There are people who can do cardio indefinitely. But at they trade the ability of muscle growth for unlimited endurance.

>It's not going to build energetically expensive muscle tissue with the fat that could be keeping you alive through a winter.

Because muscle growth is signaled by cytokines and the byproducts of muscle damage.

If you "feel the pain", the body will put on muscle because the response doesn't correlate with a simple thermodynamic map. If there's muscle damage, there will be muscle growth.

Repairing muscle is different to actually building more. You are able to repair muscle fibers without adding additional mass.

>So you're saying that your body will experience a calorific deficit and start breaking down fat stores in addition to those it needs to survive just to build muscle? Muscle, which if food continues to be at the same availability, that will push you further and further into deficit?
Yes, if you stimulate muscle growth through exercise.

>If the biology wasn't enough consider the physics, you are taking energy out of a system, but you still expect the body to put on mass?
Read the thread. Its a net loss of mass if youre cutting 1lb of fat and gaining .5 lb of muscle per week.

But the repairing process usually involves muscles getting a bit more thicker.

Exception is people who don't experience muscle damage but they also don't experience muscle growth.

don't bother, everyone here will prefer sperging for hours on end

Veeky Forums please help.

I am a tall skelly female and I want to get the thicc Instagram model look (ik it's largely unattainable but I think I can get close without plastic surgery). But the thing is, I'm afraid of how much weight I have to gain. I'm also afraid of eating more than like 1600 cals a day.

How do I overcome this? Should I just do it during winter and stay skelly now so I don't look like a fat piece of shit during the summer months? (I live in a beach town)

>5'10"
>133lb
>waist is 26.5"
>hip 34.5"

>I am a tall skelly female
>I'm also afraid of eating more than like 1600 cals a day.
Seek mental help and fuck off.

No, but you will burn fat for energy and convert any protein you eat to muscle. It is entirely possible to lose fat and gain muscle on a caloric deficit with steroids.