Nattys, do you consider steroids user as "cheaters"...

I don't use steroids because I don't want to compromise my long-term health but I wouldn't consider someone who uses a cheater, just potentially short-sighted if he's not using them in an informed and responsible way. If you use and claim you don't, I guess that's a little fucked up but no more so than anybody else in the world who lies about their accomplishments.

>Just say you juice
It's illegal in a lot of countries friendo.

I've run 4 cycles with solid gains and managed to maintain them off cycle, ill start my first ever bnc when i get home next week and have enough gear to bnc for the next year.

Honestly nothing wrong with being natty you just can't have a goal to be the biggest guy in the room, goals should be more related to endurance, sport specific or general wellbeing. Getting bigger and stronger can form part of that.

I find myself more confident and less refusable when im on gear which is a key purpose as it greatly assists with work but I also feel physically i look flat off gear.

I don't care. Im 35 and clean now but I ran a couple of cycles 15 years ago in college. When im in my 40s, ill probably go to one if those testosterone clinics.

My only wish is that people would just be honest and not lie about it.

Idk. I think it cheapens the value of what you get.

Its like using console commands to hit max level in a videogame, and getting the best gear. So you don't appreciate it as much.

Since your training and diet don't need to be great if you are on juice, you will get huge and lean even if you are half assing it.

In order to get there natty, you need the training and dietary discipline to grind for years.

So I guess when I get there I'll appreciate it more. Since I worked for it.

If its your fucking job, or if you have terrible body dismorphia and you want to get ifbb huge and dick skin, then go for it.

Just realize its illegal, and a slippery slope to being a straight up junky (dirty needles will give you aids.) Also theres a shit ton of sides, so if you do decide to juice, keep them in mind, and do your research and proper PCT.

Also if you roid, hit your goals within a few months, will you still be motivated to lift?

Idk just think about whatever your end goal is if and when you decide to hop off the natty train.

I really don't give a fuck, but I will admit that it pisses me off when roiders act as if they're natty. I've seen them tell girls that it took lots of hard work and dedication and that they're "all natural". They claim there's nothing wrong with using and then they're not up front about it.

if I was on steroids, I'd answer if someone directly asked me if I was on steroids, but wouldn't really go around volunteering that information.

Natty but know a lot of steroid users as I live in a "student focused" apartment building with a nice gym.
I don't really consider them cheaters, they've utilized steroids to reach a physique they would be unable to achieve natty. Most are nice guys who are just really into lifting. They help the new lifters and generally keep the gym a better place. I've had the chance to pin plenty of times but don't really have a desire to. Maybe I will in the future as I get older and weaker.

As far as people lying about usage, I don't really care, most people just don't want their place of employment to know they regularly break the law. If steroids were fully legal I presume more people would be upfront about it. Maybe in our lifetimes we'll see commercialized steroids, that'd be interesting, we'd probably have a lot more sicc cunts.

And? The authorities aren't beating down the doors of the people who are open about thier use. Fuck even if you get caught buying it and shipping it to your adress all you get is a letter in the mail saying "if you did this, don't do that".

I had a friend who started going to the gym and within a couple of months he was so much bigger, I asked him what his secret was and he told me he used steroids, he shortly after quit going to the gym and is now tiny again lol.

If you have a sponsorship and you leak that you've juiced, you'll get dropped, because you're hurting the companies imagage.
Do you really think that's worth it just so some neckbeards behind a computer can call you "honest"?

This is the biggest problem people have, that their entire life revolves around the gym.

I don't do roids because of the health side effects. If there were no bad side effects I would definetly take it.
However if I were to see a huge dude and he told me he was on roids I would be a lot less impressed than if he would've told me he wasn't on roids

Steroid users are cheaters. Too weak and beta to make gains or get stronger on their own, so they pay money to inject drugs in their butt.

Body dysmorphia to the extreme. Even a huge mutant freak roider thinks he's too small and constantly has to improve his abnormal muscles with more steroids. Not only will he never look good enough to himself, but he will never feel good about himself objectively.

Deeply insecure. The decision to roid at all comes from a lack of confidence in one's appearance and abilities. The use of them will not improve their own self-confidence and actually makes them even more insecure.

Unhealthy. Steroid users are killing themselves by filling their bodies with unhealthy amounts of potent hormones and drugs. All steroid users die a premature death, but spend many years or decades dying before that. Heart issues, blood issues, prostate issues, and hair issues are only some of the consequences that insecure roiders subject themselves to in the name of bigger muscles.

Unnattractive. There are approximately zero women who like the roided up muscle look. Women like natural looking muscles up to a certain level. Men who use steroids to improve their looks are paradoxically making themselves look worse and decreasing their chances of finding a partner. Understandable since they are killing their bodies, sperm cells, and reducing their offspring's health. They may be able to find a woman who uses steroids - even more disgusting and pathetic than a "man" who uses them.

Cheaters. Some may defend steroids with the assertion that most professional athletes are on gear. However, this accounts for less than .1% of roiders worldwide. Most roiders are sad looking betas in your average gym, wearing tank tops to show off their unnatural bodies in a desperate cry for approval. Professional athletes who do use steroids are also dishonorable, fueling a culture of lies and manipulation. Clearly, the natural lifter is more successful in all areas of life.

I don't care if other people want to fuck up their bodies with it but I wouldn't touch it with a 6 foot pole, I care about actually being strong and not just looking strong.

no i fucking want to do test but want to pay in cash and not figure out buttcoins and emailing some sketchy guy. My body dysmorphia is insane and all i think about

>a slippery slope to being a straight up junky

are you suggesting that steroid use leads to heroin use just because they both involve needles? Because that's pretty silly

>not figure out buttcoins and emailing some sketchy guy

using bitcoins and ordering things on the dark web are both extremely simple if you aren't retarded

I don't consider it cheating because I don't consider building muscle a competition. I personally don't choose to take steroids because I can't be bothered to research, find a source, get bloodwork done and all the other stuff that comes along with it. I just like to go to the gym and lift. Maybe someday my attitude will change if my gains plateau, but for now I'm happy.

It's a little different if you take gear to be better at sports or to claim natty and sell advice/supplements to natty highschool kids. That's pretty fucking low.

I have been cruising on test for almost 2 years now. I did one blast, but I won't do another because I don't want to get bigger.

I lifted natty for 4 years prior to using test. I work a very physical job, and it helps a lot with that too.
So far I haven't had any negative side effects. But I'm not ignorant enough to believe it isn't a possibility, so I always take care of my diet and cardio health, as well as getting blood tests every 6 months, and donating blood as regularly as possible.
It is definitely worth it imo. I look, feel and perform better than ever.

The one main thing though, is that going back to natty life is next to impossible, because its like getting a job 50 miles away then downgrading from a nice car to a bicycle for your commute. More effort for less results and makes the results seem not worth it. So don't roid unless you are happy to do it for the rest of your training life.

I personally don't think of it as cheating. You're talking an increased risk for increased gains. It's basically just economics, some people are risk averse and since aren't.

That being said, the people who roid, and make shitty gains are the worst. It would be like investing thousands in a new business then just walking away.

I think using roids as someone who doesn't compete in any capacity and has no plans to is just kinda lame. You could call it "cheating" but you aren't really cheating anybody out of anything but yourself. A natural has to have a lot more dedication and much higher patience to reach a respectable level of mass and to stick through a countless amount of plateaus and long,very strenuous cuts to get back down to 12-15% . Steroids are so prevalent in their use that there are a couple dozen gymrats in every gym who've done one amateur show after their first few cycles that natural bodybuilders who've been at it for 10+ years can't really get lean without risking dyel mode once they put on a t-shirt.

Do whatever you want, I just don't get it personally, just seems like instant gratification.