Genetics is literally everything

stop the delusion

If you believe that genetics dont play a huge role in lifting weights, you're a fucking moron. Bottom line.
It took me a while to realize this. I was told by this board that getting strong as possible on the squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press and barbell row was the way to get big and strong. It will make you strong, no question about it, but getting big is a whole other ballpark.
First off you are SEVERELY limited in the amount of muscle that your frame can hold. Larger frame = more room for muscle. Having a smaller frame means you can never get strong and big without adding more bodyfat. You have to "bulk up", get fat, just to push weights that other guys do with ease and not paying any attention to their diet - most will actually be weaker than you yet they will have more muscle size because of their larger frame. This also relates to point number two which is your natural test levels and your overall response to training. If they're naturally low you struggle to gain strength and muscle even on a powerlifting specific program. If they're naturally high you gain muscle from fucking around and getting a pump.

I am repping 185x6-8 on OHP and I've seen guys struggling with 110-115 with bigger wider shoulders and triceps than me, and they are leaner while I still have a skinnyfat appearence. They literally fuck around in the gym, don't track strength or anything, just get a pump and they gain muscle from it. One guy was yelling doing 135x10 bent over rows, huge lats, thick back. Meanwhile I'm close to doing 315 and have nowhere near the muscular development he has.

I don't entirely know why I posted this. Maybe it's to vent my frustration. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from lifting. It's fun as hell and great for your health. Just don't set your expectations too high. It will kill you mentally.

read the entire thing good post op

Bump

>You have to "bulk up", get fat, just to push weights that other guys do with ease and not paying any attention to their diet
DELETE THIS RIGHT FUCKING NOW YOU PIECE OF SHIT I'LL TRACK YOUR IP DOWN THEN YOU'LL BE DEAD MOOSE MEAT

not everyone can be fukn Zyzz. Especially natty. Just lift and stop being a faggot about it.

Yes, and?

>185 OHP
>315 bent over row
>Skinny fat
Such a waste of time

i stopped taking any advice or anything from this korean image board years ago, but thanks for your post op

>Having a smaller frame means you can never get strong and big without adding more bodyfat.
>tfw 6,5" wrists, should I just end myself?

If the science-based training didn't put size on you it's time to take that strength you gained and apply it to do high rep bro-style training.


I remember doing Weighted-Pullups 5x5 with 40kg on me, it looked cool, I was strong, but my back just wasn't jacked.

Then I stopped doing that, and started doing tons of Pull-downs and Cable Rows and my back actually grew, doing "retarded shit", just doing bunch of sets n reps, no progression method, shit form, but I grew.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

You may never be big, but at least you're a pretty stronk guy now.

>t. guy who doesnt do hypertrophy based training
i remember my chest looked shit despite being somewhat strong then i started doing fuck loads of flies focusing on contracting and stretching and it grew significantly

this

Lifting for hypertrophy and strength are two different things.

Yes, they often go hand-in-hand, however your rep technique when lifting for hypertrophy has to be different.

Before the start of every set, you have a crucial decision to make. It's not the amount of weight to put on the bar or the number of reps to accomplish. It's something more abstract, yet just as important.

You need to decide whether your main purpose is to move the weight or to feel the muscle.

In other words, is your primary goal an objective performance measure like getting the maximum number of reps with that particular weight, or is it your goal to really feel the muscle working?

These are very different goals. A set done with either of these goals in mind will also look much different – one will be heavier and more explosive, while the other will be lighter and more controlled.

Which way is better? As different as these two approaches are, neither is inherently better than the other; they just serve different purposes.

So let's take a closer look at feeling the muscle versus moving the weight and see which one is best used when.

Athletes involved in power and movement-based sports (MMA, football, powerlifting) should generally focus on training movements, while physique athletes should focus on training muscles.

Athletes who participate in movement-based sports need to be able to move better to improve their performance. An MMA guy doesn't need to worry about the size of his pecs. Instead, he needs to be concerned with the ability of his pecs to generate maximum force rapidly and repeatedly, enabling him to land more damaging strikes to his opponent.

Similarly, a BMX racer isn't concerned about whether his legs look good in his underwear. No, he cares more that those legs can apply maximum power to get him out of the gate and around the track as quickly as possible.

On the other end of the spectrum, physique athletes who are more interested in improving the appearance of their musculature – let's call them bodybuilders – aren't concerned about power output or endurance capacity. They're concerned about how the muscles end up looking as a result of their training.

Bodybuilders and other physique competitors don't care what their vertical jump is or even how much they can squat – they're simply concerned about having full, evenly developed quads that have good separation between the three visible quad heads.

And a figure competitor isn't concerned about her ability to perform the maximum number of pull-ups in the shortest amount of time. She wants maximum lat development, thus making her waist and hips appear narrower.

Even though it's pretty unanimous that athletes and bodybuilders ultimately have different training goals, this fact tends to be lost by the time we hit the gym floor. So let's look at a few practical ways that athletes and bodybuilders can finely tune their training to maximize the desired outcome.

There are quite a few ways an athlete can tailor his or her training to maximize the performance adaptation:

>t. guy who's been training incorrectly and wants an excuse to save his ego

1 – Rep Speed

A great, no-nonsense rule is that if you want to be able to move fast, you need to train fast. Simply put, you get better at what you do.

To maximize strength and speed, you'd need to be able to recruit the maximum number of muscle fibers and get the nerves that innervate those fibers to fire as strong a nerve impulse as possible.

In other words, if you're a strength athlete then you want to maximize motor unit recruitment and neural coding. One way to accomplish this is by increasing rep speed. Performing a rep explosively will maximize both motor unit recruitment and neural coding.

So let's say you're doing a set of back squats. It would make sense to perform the concentric portion (standing up) as quickly as possible. By doing so regularly, you'll be able to apply maximum force at any given moment.

Although caution should be used when doing anything other than controlled eccentric movements, doing the eccentric portion of the squat quickly will also serve to maximize motor unit recruitment.

This occurs especially as you reach the point in the rep where the momentum from the rapid eccentric descent must be quickly decelerated, stopped, and then changed in direction rapidly by quickly generating a concentric contraction.

So by training explosively, you develop the ability to move faster.

2 – Weight Selection

Choosing the right resistance for bodybuilding training follows a similar protocol to rep speed. First, make sure you're targeting the right muscle, then feel free to use relatively heavy weight without losing the feeling of the target muscle working.

That's one thing that's so unique about bodybuilding and hypertrophy training: training like a power athlete with heavy resistance and/or high rep speed can certainly be beneficial, especially because of the aforementioned neurological changes that occur.

But doing it without stimulating the right muscles won't lead to growth in the right areas.

For example, let's say you're a bodybuilder doing the barbell bench press in order to bring up your pecs. If you aim to use as much weight as possible and move that weight explosively, no doubt you'll "perform" better, but if doing so shifts a good portion of the work away from your chest to your anterior delts, then you've robbed your pecs of the stimulation they need to grow.

You can't chase two rabbits at once. Don't try to perform better at the expense of staying small.

That leads us to our final, yet most significant way in which bodybuilders should train differently than athletes.

3 – Mental Focus

When training for muscle growth your mind needs to be on the target muscle.

If you don't focus on the muscle you're trying to bring up, your body will revert to what it's good at, namely letting the same muscles "sleep" and calling upon already overworked muscles surrounding the ones you're wanting to build.

Doing an exercise without feeling the target muscle work will not only delay progress, it can also set you back by exacerbating muscle imbalances.

When you keep training a muscle you don't readily feel working, it's natural for your body to try to work around this inefficient, sleepy muscle by changing the motor program to recruit more efficient, ready-to-work muscles.

The only way to make sure you get out of the exercise what you need is to use that powerful muscle between your ears. Make sure that you feel the right muscles working as much as possible from the onset of the first rep to the completion of the last.

Tweak your form, alter your rep speed a bit (usually by going slower), or consider employing a technique like isometric holds – especially in the contracted position – to make sure you feel the stress of the exercise in the right place.

This is good, never thought about this desu senpai

A lot of people are gonna shit on you for telling the truth but it is what it is.
Here is a personal example, I'm tall 6'2'' with 6 inch wrists, it took me 2 and a half years of consistent and properly planned training to reach a 2pl8 bench (bw 190lbs and around 12% bf).
My friend who is an inch shorter and has 8 inch wrists reached 2pl8 bench in 7 months at about the same bodyweight.

Three BIG things (besides training and nutrition) which decide your growth are test levels, bone structure/thickness and muscle/tendon insertions.

>Before the start of every set, you have a crucial decision to make. It's not the amount of weight to put on the bar or the number of reps to accomplish. It's something more abstract, yet just as important.
>You need to decide whether your main purpose is to move the weight or to feel the muscle.

.... or do your main sets as heavy as you can and then back-off sets for hyper and get best of both worlds

Post a pic of yourself OP.

I agree with what you said, but your standards might be screwed up.

What are your big 3, and what rep ranges do you do.?

>tfw i do both strength a hypertrophy training
>when i was doing pure strength i barley grew
>focused on little rest and high reps (12-15 ) my shoulders grew
>been growing decently because i can high rep heavier weights
the bros are right to some degree, mainly focusing on strength will give get you strong as fuck but when you start doing typical bro training with that strength you acquired it will blow up your size.

Sets of 6-8 with 185 on OHP isn't hypertrophy training? Well I've done 10x10 with 135 on OHP, 6x12-15 bench with 225, dumbell rowed 100lbx20+ reps I've tried a bunch of different stuff, genetics limit you.
Once you reach 1/2/3/4 any noticable muscle/strength gain after that isnt noticable if youre natty with shitty genetics