Veeky Forums help improve my PPL

I am training 6 times a week. PPLPPLR

I guess the main reason i have so many exercises is the same reason that I like PPL at all in that I like to spend lots of time in the gym somewhat as mental therapy.

Is the compound exercises explicitly "bad", or just somewhat unnecessary?

>Is the compound exercises explicitly "bad", or just somewhat unnecessary?
wat

Far too much volume the only person I would expect to get good gains out of this are roiders or 3pl8 + benchers.
Deadlift far too high squat far too low volume.

Will doing more exercises than necessary actually hinder my growth, or is it just extra bujt not really negative? Sorry, english is not my language of primary.
What's wrong with doing 5 sets of deadlift? It's not too tiring for me and I enjoy it a lot.

Too heavy on volume. I doubt you're giving your all on the main compound lift if you can still do 6+ accessory lifts after.

Why no alternating BP/OHP and DL/Row for push and pull respectively?

Doing 4x5 then 1xF of DL is dumb. Just do 3x5, or even work up to one heavy set.

Doing 108 reps on triceps with 120 reps on raises is ludicrous. Just do 3x12 with a heavy weight.

>Will doing more exercises than necessary actually hinder my growth

It will hinder your progression, but you will get stronger and have muscular endurance

You must be lifting some light fucking weight if you can handle 5 sets of DL. What are your stats, be honest.

For my deadlift, I lift 100 pounds, including the bar.

For my squat, I lift 120 pounds, including the bar.

For my bench press, I lift 100 pounds, including the bar.

I have been lifting since July 15th, so very recently. I have a long way to go

>Will doing more exercises than necessary actually hinder my growth, or is it just extra bujt not really negative? Sorry, english is not my language of primary.

I'd reccomend lurking for a bit and actually googling that very topic and reading all you can about it.
The general consensus is that the volume that you're doing is pretty much considered cardio.
Don't pay attention to "Muscular endurance" is a meme. If you want aesthetics you want to make it grow, not train it for a marathon.

There was this video by Omar Isuf where he goes balls deep into the optimal rep ranges per week depending on your goals. Can't recall the titile but its out there. Again, just google conventional routines and listen to seasoned dudes -not the first instagram pretty boy that you come across or some roided dude that has never even competed and tells you to train arms 8 hours a day.

Lurk and read everything you can.
gonna go to bed now, just drop the fucking volume m8

You are doing to many exercises and to many sets and reps. You will most likely not be able to recover from this amount of training. Of course you can try it out and maybe it works. If you start feeling tired and all that then you know what is up.

Replace Chinup with direct forearm curls. Move deadlift to Legs or turn them into Rack Pulls Above the Knee or just drop it altogether.

>dips on leg day
put this on push day if you want to keep them

You might want to not do so much on leg day.

You need to IMMEDIATELY stop doing this garbage PPL then and get on a beginner strength program. You are horrifically undertrained for this program and you will gain nothing out of it. For the love of god, switch to ANY of the standard beginner programs right now.

You should be at least near 1/2/3/4 before you think about doing PPL.

he's the strongest man on youtube

youtube.com/watch?v=Pc_ZE2GJXJg

Here's my PPL, OP. You can draw from it

A-Push
>4-6x6-12 OHP
>4-6x6-12 Bench
>3-5x8-12 Skullcrusher
>3-5x8-12 Low to High Fly
>3-5x8-12 Triceps Kickback
>3-5xF Lateral Raise
>3x8-12 Wrist Flexion
>2x8-12 Wrist Extension

B-Pull
>4-6xF Pullup
>4-6x6-12 Row
>3-5x8-12 Hammer Curl
>3-5xF Reverse Fly
>3-5x8-12 Zottman Curl
>3-5x8-12 Facepull
>4-6x10-20 Shrug

C-Legs
>3-4x5-8 Deadlift
>3-4x5-8 Squat
>3-4x8-12 Standing Calf Raise/Seated Calf Raise (alternate)
>20 minutes of cardio

far too much, even if you do it recovery will never be optimal unless you are on gear. If you are doing the exercises to a meaningful and worthwhile intensity there should be no need to do something that many sets x reps.

Errors which immediately show up at a quick glance:
Push
>120 lateral raises
>108 reps on triceps isolation
>Chin-up3x12 (wtf is this doing here, its a back/bicep exercise and also a pull movement)
>To summarize you have programmed a stupid amount of isolation/accessory bullshit which will end up sub optimal weight and thus lower total volume taking away from the progressive overload necessary for natty growth.

Pull
>Opening with deadlifts 4x5 with an amrap set is a bad idea in every way
>108 reps of varying rows is overkill again what i said above about total volume but the not the necessary progressive overload required for natty growth
>72 bicep curl reps again as above
>pullups, your lats got hit yesterday choose 1 or the other

Legs
>Opening with squats with an AMRAP set is again dumb
>Romanian deadlift, you are already doing deadlifts on pull day you will fuck your cns and recovery so hard this is doomed at this point
>Leg Press, how do you think you are going to do well with this if you have already done a deadlift variation and an AMRAP squat set???
>Leg curls are unnecessary
>Dips on leg day ??? Keeping in mind the next day (assuming PPLPPLx) you are doing chest again

Overall progressive overload + volume is necessary but doing 10000 reps for bicep curls or rows is not, condense this shit and make it 10000x simpler, shorter, less taxing on the CNS, you'll see better results. A way to fix this is 3x8 BB Rows progressively overloaded at heavy weight like 75% maximal effort instead of 108 reps at 10% effort/weight you understand?

This is fucking trash. Fuck off you weak cunt.

Also this is ABCABCx

This tripfag is ok.

>You should be at least near 1/2/3/4 before you think about doing PPL.

Fuck off you SS mong

Again fuck off you SS mong

There is no evidence that you need a strength base, this meme only exists on Veeky Forums

(You)

>There is no evidence that you need a strength base, this meme only exists on Veeky Forums

Welp. This meme is quite prevalent in a shitload of other communities buddy. Its almost like as if you look only in 4chin for fitness advice.

Push (3 Chest, 2 Shoulders 2 Triceps)
Incline bench press
6 Working Sets 12/10/8/8/6/6 Reps
Flat dumbbell bench press
4 Working Sets 12/10/8/6 Reps
Cable Flys
5 Working Sets 12/10/10/8/8 Reps
Dumbbell shoulder press
4 Working Sets 12/10/8/6 Reps
Dumbbell lateral raises
4 Working Sets 8-10 Reps
Skullcrusher
4 Working Sets 12/10/8/8 Reps
Triceps rope pushdowns
3 Working Sets 8-10 Reps

Pull (4 Back, 3 Biceps, 1 Traps)
Deadlifts
5 Working Sets 12/10/8/8/6 Reps
Bent over barbell rows
4 Working Sets 12/10/8/6 Reps
T-Bar rows
4 Working Sets 12/10/10/8 Reps
Facepulls
4 Working Sets 8-10 Reps
Standing alternate curls
4 Working Sets 8-10 Reps
Biceps machine
4 Working Sets 12/10/8/6 Reps
Concentration curls
3 Working Sets 12-15 Reps
Shrugs
3 Working Sets Max. Reps

Legs
Seated calf raises
3 Working Sets 12-15 Reps
Calf press on legpress
4 Working Sets 12-15 Reps
Squats
5 Working Sets 15/12/10/8/6 Reps
Hack squats
4 Working Sets 8-10 Reps
Stiff-legged deadlifts
4 Working Sets 12/10/8/8 Reps
One leg hamstring curls
4 Working Sets 12-15 Reps

If you want to actually look good do ppl if you want to lift a lot of weight then do a strength program

How does it feel to be weak?

How does it feel to be stupid?

How does it feel to have no gains?

Thank you for your input man, do you have any resources I should look at for a better PPL routine?

>less than 1pl8 deadlift
>Makes his own program
>will probably start giving advice soon
Love nufit.

k

>reddit
Neck yourself at once, lad.

I want to add something to my previous post
People can spend a fair bit of time walking in their daily lives yet their calves are nothing impressive its not until you add weight that they grow. This weight and the continual PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD is what forces/causes muscle protein synthesis and thus bigger calves. The same applies to any exercise/muscle group, progressive overload must occur to spark the process of building and repairing muscle tissue/fibers.

Thanks for the reply man. Why do you go down in reps on the later sets on the larger exercises?

...

Reddit is actually better than Veeky Forums for lifting advice nowadays

...

>people actually fall for this shit

>implying kai greene is some infallible bodybuilding authority

Didn't he completely give up on Mr. O a few years ago?

you want to lower reps and increase weight to really burn out your muscles while staying in the 6-12 range. another good thing to really hit your muscles besides dropsets are 5 second negatives. so on your last rep you are executing the negative movement for 5 seconds so you are going down real slow

You can submit another PPL program taking into consideration what I've said e.g replace the 3 types of rows at 108 reps with 3x8 BB Rows, with all exercises trying to hit the most musculature possible (thus increasing efficiency, lowering time spent at the gym, easier recovery, less tax on the cns). In short replace some of the isolations with compounds, even EMG activity is comparable interestingly.

While I think isolations are necessary just not that much/many, try write another and ill have a look if you want, ill also try to write one in the meantime

Who the fuck actually believes its impossible to recover from a PPL without being on gear. Jesus christ you soft cunts

It's impossible to recover from any routine that is

>More than three times a week
>Goes over 3 sets and 5 reps
>Has more than 3 exercises

As far as Veeky Forums is concerned

but not as far as people who are actually working out are concerned

Its not the routine type that people are bitching about. its the dumb sheer volume

So what kind of volume should guys who want hypertrophy we doing?

I should mention despite all I've said, I dont think PPLPPLx is optimal for any lifter, going from something like 4x12 Bench into a 4x5 + 1xF OHP is not optimal for the OHP if you see what i mean (Keeping in mind these compound movements are like the bread and butter of a routine they are meant to be taxing and having 2 in succession like Bench to OHP you will 100% lose out on some progressive overload for the OHP)

>people who lift much more than me must be fat

Forever a boy

What does Veeky Forums think of this routine? Would it be beneficial to someone who's been lifting for half a year?

How about something like

PULL
Deadlifts 1x5, 1xAMRAP/Barbell rows 4x5, 1xAMRAP (alternate, so if you did deadlifts on Monday, you would do rows on Thursday, and so on)
3x8-12 Chinups
3x8-12 chest supported rows
5x15-20 face pulls
4x8-12 hammer curls
4x8-12 dumbbell curls

PUSH
4x5, 1xAMRAP bench press
3x8-12 overhead pressss
3x8-12 triceps pushdowns
3x15-20 lateral raises

LEGS
2x5, 1xAMRAP squat
3x8-12 Romanian Deadlift
5x8-12 calf raises

Does this seem better than the original

Should cleans be done on push or pull day?

what does being on gear mean?
no bully plz

As ive said before itt its just the sheer dumb volume like 108 reps for tricep isolations alone that i find hard to understand, its sub-optimal in every way

To summarize: 108 reps across back to back 3x12 + 3x12 both supersetted with 3x20 + 3x20 is a grand total of 228 reps of isolation for triceps and the lateral deltoid (primarily) is a GIGANTIC amount of work for 2 small assistance muscle groups, it will be similar to cardio and leave you exhausted (Also taking into account the rapid rise in serum cortisol you are receiving less 'gains' for all this hard work than you think.

I think 3x12 is enough on any given isolation exercise to see hypertrophy, although i personally use 3x8 and as soon as i can hit 3x12 without failure i increase the weight by 2.5lbs or whatever small change plates i can find and the repeat 3x8 till i can do 3x12

This achieves progressive overload, a method of increasing the weight, a challenging rep range often considered the hypertrophy rep range, and doesnt effect recovery at a sub optimal level (while allowing for expected cortisol response) with the added bonus of not taking too long

with lower reps higher weight i meant you do 12/10/8/8 for example and take higher weight for each set you lower the reps so i still meant high volume

That seems reasonable. Maybe shift one or two of the accessories in your pull day into your legs day. Then you're great.

i would add lat pulldown to the pull day, incline dumbbell press and flys to the push day

Thanks for the advice guys. I appreciate the help as new to lifting one

big volume = big gainz buddy its all about time under tension

This is basically the Reddit PPL routine that I've been doing, pretty good gains so far. My body looks better than when I was doing SS

This is much improved but im not a fan of:

Legs
>AMRAP set on squat you could probably increase that to 5x5 without the AMRAP and be fine, while still making progressive overload and not seriously effecting the other exercises in the day
>Personally would replace Romanian dead lift with leg press with care for foot position in regards to EMG activity on the hamstrings (you want more quad activiation)
>Calf Raises can optimally be supersetted with shrugs

Pull
>Change pullups to chinups and add weight once you can 3x10 solid ones
>The alternating is good for deadlifts and Rows but it depends on the user how good, if the weight is not high enough/recovery is good enough you can deadlift more than once a week
>I would change 5x15-20 facepulls to 3x12-20 of DB Rows for reasons mentioned in earlier comments and I'm not sure how i feel about chest supported rows in here
>still too many curls, dont forget biceps are an assistance muscle for things like Rows/Chinups/Pullups

Push
>stop AMRAP please it has no use here
>your push day is good

Overall i would add some ab isolation exercises and maybe some shrugs where possible, up to you. Still you see that issue of having OHP and Bench on the same day maybe alternate each push day but you still are training each of them sub-optimally once a week

there are so many articles/pubmed studys regarding optimal length of training time, to do 228 reps on isolation alone is pointless and goes against all current valid research

You can do an 8 hour arm workout like rich peon but it wont work unless you have pharma grade gear (like him)

Yeah I don't disagree with anything you've said here

yes studies about the length of a workout which is one hour. you do realise that on a hypertrophy workout you only rest 60-90 seconds between sets? that way you can stay in an one hour maybe 1:15 h range while still doing a lot of volume

>changing a very effective compound movement for a fucking leg press

cease

>first year lifters that fell for the ">ss is a meme" meme trying to make a better routine
Oh lawd am I laughing

jesus

you dont know shit about lifting stop trying to reinvent the wheel

get your womanly deadlift to 4 plates and you will get more size gains than any of the programs you want to come up with

See my post here and realize you know absolutely nothing about fitness and do starting strength

>I understand sport science better than a plethora of doctors and scientists with decades of research and experience.

either way about it 1.5 hours cortisol is peaked to a point where continued exercise is rendered almost null and void, even with a 60-90 second gap you are pushing it, however my main point that the weight will be so sub-optimal that you could increase the weight and lower the reps and do the 3x8-12 (or even 20) rep progression that i described in a previous comment and still make better gains in 1/4 the time

consider that 3x8 progressing to 12 or even 20 reps with a weight before upping the weight is possible and an easily manageable way of having progression in assistance/isolation exercises. When compared to doing 228 reps (108 on triceps & 120 on lateral deltoid as originally programmed) i dont think many people could continue a reasonable progression on that especially with the almost cardio-like intensity that a ss3x20 lateral raise provides

I accept that if you find your workout has ended early and you feel like you have more juice in the tank AFTER doing the bread and butter compounds more isolations are the answer but not programmed like this

assuming OP is a beginner his program has him deadlifting once a week (with rows on the alternate pull day) and romanian deadlifting twice a week I feel like this is a path to failure/giving up and unnecessary stress on the CNS for him when he could just do the proper compound movements with 1-2 isolation exercises...

precisely...

More volumen = more fatigue = lower ability to lift big weights. Just focus on a few lifts per day, 2-3 compounds and 1-2 accesories

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22518835

Love reading your posts. Super informative. You're doing great work for new lifters.

after a long time browsing my time lurking is over its time to give back to Veeky Forums who saved my life

>a lower load lifted to failure resulted in similar hypertrophy as a heavy load lifted to failure.
Is this supposed to support or discredit my claims?
Also to note: study did not mention any sort of progressive overload found within most strength based programs

with his sub 1 plate deadlift he can liyerally deadlift every single fucking day assuming his form isnt super garbage

Good on ya. Anyone who genuinely tries to fuck over new lifters with false information should be considered an enemy of the board. I used to think that beyond all of the shit posting, fit was committed to giving everyone information that allows them to succeed. Fit seemed to shit on the people who were 'making it' but lift up those who had a long way to go. The board was kind because most of us remember our humble origins.

It's upsetting to see that trying to convince people to do garbage routines is a game to some people.

Yes you do you retard, anyone who looks like they lift can actually lift

No. Just because it's light weight for us doesnt mean it is for him.

The bigger the muscle the more rest it needs, both for muscle itself and CNS. Abs and arms can be done 3-4x/week. Legs shouldn't be done more than twice. (As long as youre doing heavy deads/squats) Lifters under 6 months experience maybe even less.