According to the internet starting strength and stronglifts are the most popular programs of all time...

>PPLPPLx is the best split
*If you can afford to train 6 days
>5-day brosplit is best for pharma-enhanced lifters.
Nah, full body is. Strongmen train fullbody. Bodybuilders train brosplits because they're on so much gear they don't have to train more than once a week
>UL is the best split for girls (more lowerbody to upperbody ratio than PPL).
Not really. On L days you'll do squats, Deadlifts and go home. On U days you'll do bench, rows, OHP, chinups, curls, lat raises etc. Of course you can add accessories to L days too but if you have energy you probably didn't squat heavy enough
>Fullbody routines and 5x5s are best for intermediate lifters who already have aesthetics and looking to bulk up.
So, like TM which is a derivative of SS which you dissed as "not enough"? No contradiction at all lol

If someone asks what program you're doing and you say Starting strength you can guarantee they think that you're autistic.

But you'll be strong so who cares.

Normie gyms are the worst. The friends I made in there always ask me "what are you hitting today" (as in chest, arms etc) or "why are you only working out in the squat rack", but they be mirin my lmao 3pl8 x5 squat and lmao 2.25pl8 bench
They are really bro tier guys but I wish it were more competitive

I don't understand how you're supposed to get anything out of a full body routine. Are you supposed to just ignore all compounds because they'd tire you so fast?

>not even powerlifters
by the time they acquired powerlifter status they were too advanced for either SS or SL so they probably just told you what program they were on at the time

wish there was something like a 4 day PPL

Also I have only seen ONE (1) person ever powercleaning.

I got to 2 plates fast, but that's because I already have an athletic background. I've never been a fat fuck in my life

Is this routine good? It's a slightly adjusted PHUL program

Day 1: Upper Power
-Incline DB press 3x6 -- 120s
-DB Incline flies 3x6 -- 120s
-Chin Up (To my discretion)
-Lat Pull down 3x10 -- 90s
-The Press 3x8 -- 120s
-EZ bar curl 3x10 -- 45s
-EZ bar skull crusher 3x10 -- 45s
-Face pulls 4x12 -- 45s

Day 2: Lower Power
-Front Squat
-RDL

Day 3: Rest (or abs at home)

Day 4: Upper Hypertrophy
-Incline DB press 4x12 -- 45s
-DB Incline Flies 4x12 -- 45s
-Seated cable row 4x12 -- 45s
-One arm DB row 4x12 -- 45s
-DB lat raise 4x12 -- 45s
-Incline DB curl 4x12 -- 45s
-Cable tri extension 4x12 -- 45s

Day 5: Lower Hypertrophy
-Front Squat
-RDL
-Maybe leg press

Day 6 and 7: Rest (or abs at home)

I personally do PPxLPxPLx

it's a 9-day cycle but it's not even hard to upkeep, naturally sometimes I have to rest for two days at a time if I go out etc but for the most part it works extremely well. Always felt like 6 days a week didn't have enough rest for a natty

SS and strong lifts are beginner programs, they get you squatting your 2x bodyweight in 6 months, then you stop progressing because it's a beginner program. 5/3/1 and meme splits are not beginner programs and you'll be wasting your noob potential. Those guys at the gym probably took a year or more to reach what you can in 6 months with a good program.

Powerlifting is a waste of time and it's unsustainable.

the average person at the gym who squats 3 plates took 2 years to get there and still gets 'DOMS' after squatting on 'LEG DAY'

>walk into gym
>see regular
>'hey user, leg day again?'
>mfw

no, it's fucking retarded

why are you only front squatting?

also there is literally nothing in there that will actually build your upper back except maybe the press which i doubt will do anything because you're trying to go for such high reps

lmaoing at 'abs at home' yeah like sit ups and crunches ever actually gave someone a strong core LOL

I got to a 3pl8 squat in about 12 months following beginner programs. I did about 3 months of GSLP, then 6 months alternating between starting strength and texas method. If I'd actually counted calories, stuck to SS and not tried to do so much cardio in that time I would have gotten to 3pl8 in half that.

Wanna know how I know you don't actually lift?

go ahead buddy

If you are doing stronglifts or starting strength and you are adding weight to the bar on every exercise without stalling how on earth could you be gaining strength faster? It adds 30kg a month to your squat and 15 to your other compounds. The fuck more do you want. Once you start stalling out on that then do whatever you like but your compounds will have outstripped all the normies that have there doing splits for years in months.

I still don't know if SS or SL is a meme. I wish I could get a straight answer on what some fucker like myself who has never been to a gym before and is a 105lbs at 5'10should do.

They are beginners programs, you are a beginner, do it

I think you misunderstood, OP wants to not do SS or SL for something more stupid.

Tell me if you still think it's a meme when you add 5lb to your squat, and 2-3 to your arm lifts every 2 days for 5 months.

SS is the best program for developing good squat form and getting those endolphins swimming to make you crave exercise and routine, and also make you fucking fear getting under the bar towards the end of it

as soon as your squat form starts to deteriorate after your first deload, jump onto a PPL 6 day routine and start doing squats once a week and you'll be set to make slow and steady progress as the rest of your body eventually catches up with your t-rex legs

>that pale, skinny, autistic looking incel at my gym who clearly does SS because he's done "research" on 4can/reddit/neckbeards.com
i smirk errtime. it's like "the virgin workout" irl

I have done some version of those programs since I started lifting, keeping the core of squats, bench and deadlifts pretty much the same the entire time. If you combine it with proper nutrition, you'll see pretty good gains after noob gains wear off in my opinion. I got to 110kg bench from about 50kg max when I started, and to a 3plate squat. Anyway, despite Veeky Forums's elitist beliefs, most well recognized programs will actually work for you if you just manage to stick to them and follow a strict nutritional plan. ie caloric surplus in your case.

That's because most powerlifters were too advanced for SS/SL by the time they found out what it was.

The only people who do SS/SL are those who spent a load of time researching before setting foot in a gym for the first time, ie. autists from reddit/Veeky Forums.

Most normies get into the gym through family/friends/sports doing meme routines and shit and by the time they get serious about training and find a proper programme they're intermediate already.

ditillo2.blogspot.com/2017/05/retro-mass-full-body-workouts-cs-sloan.html

nsuns 531 is the goatest of them all

I know right? It's always a skinny fucking weirdo with curly hair and glasses that hogs the squat rack for an hour to squat air.

I have been working out for about three months, 5 days a week, but not doing barbell squats or cleans.

I just did some research and I've started SS this week. I'm terrified of fucking up my knees with bad form, but practice makes perfect.

I really like doing the squats though, and I think the cleans are really fun. Hard, but not as hard as I expected.

Anyway, I find the 3-days-a-week thing to be pretty boring. Would it be bad for me to just switch to a PPLxPPLx?

skinnyfat 6'4" 205lb
want less gross body

to be fair, the lighting in this picture does me zero justice

Don't do SS please for the love of god. Do 531 (I'm partial to BBB but you might want an easier variation) or gzcl or even fucking greyskull.

SS peaks numbers by giving an easy to recover stimulus so you hit numbers your muscles could already handle. It does not cause an appreciable amount of muscle growth or real strength gains (skill is not strength)

Most beginner programs that are common in strength training are poorly designed. If you look at how legitimate coaches like Sheiko program for beginners, the programs are lower specificity, high number of accessories, and lower relative intensity compared to things programs from people like Rippetoe, Phrak, etc. Sheiko's beginner training philosophy also emphasizes multiple fitness qualities and a variety of movement patterns.
If you read Science and Practice of Strength Training, Zatsiorsky also advises a similar training philosophy for beginners. He suggests new lifters spend several months doing general preparatory exercises before moving on to more challenging and intense lifting variations. Yet, for whatever reason, this concept preached by actual coaches with an advanced education in the field are lost to droves of /r/fitness users and coaches who don't even understand basic biomechanics like Rippetoe.
Beginners should not be training with 85%+ in competition lifts multiple times a week, peaking these movements by continually adding 5-10lbs every single training session until they plateau. Beginners should not be training with only one rep range and with an extremely limited movement selection. Beginners should not be ignoring all other physical and motor qualities in favor of only developing maximal strength. Why this needs to be said in 2017 is absolutely baffling.
In no other sport are beginner athletes taken into practice on their first day and asked to perform high intensity, high complexity movements while ignoring GPP, motor development in a variety of skills, and a whole slew of other things that go into making a good athlete. Imagine taking a 13 year old shot putter and asking them to throw at 80-85% of their max distance three times a week their first season even stepping on the field? It's asinine.

ok thanks

So what should beginners actually be doing based on actual well educated coaches and exercise scientists in the field?
Training with intensities ~60-70%, using easier lift regressions with a plan to eventually move to competition lifts, varying volume and intensity throughout the week, little to no loading at our near failure in technical lifts, using a variety of bilateral and unlitateral movements to train all joint actions to develop a balanced physique, and training other fitness qualities like aerobic endurance, muscular endurance, mobility, etc.
I would recommend beginner lifters focus on box squats, goblet squats, kb deadlifts, trap bar deadlifts, lunges, and kb swings for lower body strength development. For the upper body, assisted pull ups, push ups, db rows, neutral grip db presses, unilateral db presses, and renegade rows for upper body strength development. For accessories, hamstring curls, back raises, planks, ab wheel, landmine presses, band pull aparts, reverse hypers, and face pulls. You don't have to do all of these movements, these are just some ideas. A complete beginner who never exercised before would use a bodyweight box squat, whereas a 13 year old who has played sports might use a DB goblet squat, for example.
If you aren't a powerlifter, you also don't need to use the barbell bench/squat/deadlift despite what /r/fitness will tell you. A trap bar deadlift, safety bar squat, and football bar bench are fine choices that will develop sufficient strength in the hips and shoulder girdle, while reducing some injury risk to the low back and glenohumeral joint.
Beginners should also prioritize conditioning and GPP. Sled pushing and pulling and cycling are the easiest and low impact.
One more thing that absolutely needs to be said. HOW FAST YOU ADD WEIGHT TO THE BAR IS NOT THE BE ALL END ALL OF ATHLETIC DEVELOPMENT
Whether or not you squat 225 in 3 months or 1 year is largely irrelevant to the totality of an athletic career.

But Lso don't get analysis paralasys. Fucking around in the gym while you try to figure out what you want to do will give you a huge boost start.

531 lp and gzcl lp and greyskull are all pretty good, with the first two being good at getting you used to how non linear programming works

One more thing, ppl is good, just suffered from a lack of a true progression model. Honestly any split is good depending on how you split the volume and how you progress, most 531 templates are essentially bro splits with a good progression tequnique

If you want to throw 531 on top of ppl I'm sure it'd be fine. Or tier it like gzcl does

Actually fuck it heres a gzcl ppl 2x week template:

Push: bench t1, press t2, push t3s

Pull: pullup t1, row t2, back t3

Legs: squat t1, floor pull t2, legs t3

Then switch t1 and t2 for the second ppl of the week

Yawn

Wow you really refuted those points

>Powerlifting is a waste of time and it's unsustainable.

wat