Why are carbs so bad?

so you shouldn't eat pasta for dinner after working out

>if you eat them before a workout to burn off, then they become fat/mass if you don't?

Think about that for a second and think of how that would make sense

>bro-cardiology

carb from cake & doughnuts = bad because no nutrients

carbs from oats, brown rice, sweet potatoes = good because nutrients

carbs = energy, you need carbs, just not from chips cake sugar and soda

Why would that be? After a workout, your body still burns energy for your survival. The only time you can expect carbs to turn into fat is the same as any other macro, when you've eaten more calories than your body requires to operate for that day.

There is nothing wrong with white rice. It is one of the best starches to eat.

>I read bodybuilding.com XD

You take my oat bread I take your life

>I'm a retarded fat faggot that doesnt realize that white rice has been one of the staple nutrients that has allowed asians to prosper as a people

They are not bad, but they are everywhere. With protein you actually struggle to get to 200g per day with no supplements. For carbs, all you gotta do is eat some pasta with bread and something with sugar and you are there.
Also, simple carbs are bad just like saturated and trans fat are bad (but there are good fats too)

>saturated fat is bad

Please stop telling people to not eat saturated fat. It has a purpose

>you need carbs
literally the only macronutrient that you do not need to consume

How about eating at night before sleeping? Like I dinner at 9 and im sleeping at 10.

Simple carbs also has a purpose, for most people it doesn't matter they will eat them anyways.

asians also have some of the highest rates of diabetus!!! Could be because they have a westernized diet now but rice doesn't NOT help spike insulin levels.

OP, just eat things in moderation. Get IN TUNE with your body. How do you feel after a big meal of pasta?

EXPERIMENT!! Go for a few days not eating meat and only carbs.

Log how you feel.

DO the reverse. Experiment with your diet to KNOW how your body reacts to given stimuli.

Start counting your calories and WHAT you eat and make room in that notebook or word file for HOW it made you feel after eating it.

You'd be surprised at how great it feels to actaully NOTICE how your body responds to certain foods.

considering that nutritional science was dead wrong for 80 years and you can still buy trans fats at mcdonalds, I think we could all use some more common sense info. Just cause Joe Rogan says it doesn't mean it's BS.

Do your own research but I read an article from Harvard and another form the Cleveland Clinic that say your liver's health is orders of magnitude more influential on producing bad cholesterol. Liver health is related to not eating simple sugars and your general cardiovascular health.

I eat 7 eggs a day and my heart rate is 37 bpm.

>tfw ate a pb&j with 120g of peanut butter a banana and felt amazing

youtube.com/watch?v=5S6-v37nOtY&t=721s

one of the best channels on youtube

OP go to the link above and this guy will put you on the right track.

mah nigga

but surisly. When I started eating real healthy. Lottsa greens, lean meats, plenty of fats, I noticed that carbs from bread and pastas really upset my stomach and gave me the shits like nobody could believe. Felt bloated and dull after all that shit. So I decided to experiment and did a 3 day fast before each new extreme diet change.

Got some pretty decent results. Found out my body doesnt react well to breads and pastas and some fruits and starchy stuff.

But everything else made me feel pretty good.

Not an argument, and besides white rice has only been widely eaten in maybe the last century.

>if anything was done in the past, it's proof that it's a good thing to do

Yes, your body requires energy even while you sleep. Your body requires energy 24/7. It will either get it from what you ate or what you have already stored on your body. The only way it'll accumulate fat is if the total sum of calories you ate in that day was more than what your body needed.

>tfw Asian
>tfw can't fucking stop eating rice
>tfw cry at night eating rice balls lightly sprinkled with sesame oil and soy sauce

>lean meats
>plenty of fats

all my what? you eat meat with the fat cut out for a higher price, then pay for the product that they make with the extracted fat be it butter or cream or lard

nigger what? buy the fatty cuts of meat, cheaper breh

So if I ate 2000 calories (lets say thats what im expelling each day) of donuts and frosting for all day I'd lose weight? I call bullshit on this. SUGAR reacts sooo much different than fat and insulin spikes WILL cause more fat storage. I may not gain much weight BUT I will lose muscles AND GAIN fat. This whole calories in calories out is oversimplifying. Albiet it DOES work because people who watch what they eat and record it often are more consciences of what they eat and are more apt to make better choices. But that still doesnt change the metabolic ability of the body to the foods you take in.

Count your calories and meet your figure but I GAURANTEE you WILL lose more weight eating 2000 calories of sausages each day rather than 2000 calories of donuts and frosting. prove me wrong.

Starch based diets are prevalent in any successful society

>youtube.com/watch?v=5S6-v37nOtY&t=721s

It's a tired false narrative that requires you to know nothing about the history of diet and heart disease beforehand and fall for a ridiculously implausable conspiracy theory.

Here's several hours worth of videos explaining why this is wrong (you can skip to video 3 if you want, which talks about Ancel Keys)

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv3QDzdxan_JkGX47Rpboyh2oYyAFZDBA

And a few more hours that includes a debunking Peter Attia's version of cardiology

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv3QDzdxan_IVgksyJDGR_PO6noKU0r_1

brah you write like an article in some bimbo health magazine, use more biochemistry

the metabolism of glucose and fructose couldn't be any more different, fructose cannot be used for energy and is 100% converted to lipids in the liver, causing visceral fat aka non-alcoholic fatty liver disease depending on consumption and liver health

FUCK CARBS NIGGA, KETO FOR LIFE

I mostely eat chicken because I buy whole chickens because Im on a budget. But I dont avoid a fatty meats. Just cant afford good cuts of beef. But I will fuck up a pork shoulder if its on sale. GOOD GOD I WILL FUCKING DESTROY IT!!!! Smoke it up.... Oh man. FUUUUCK.

But chicken for now. Until my debts are paid. At the moment I just drown them in coconut oil and eat a lot of eggs.

>So if I ate 2000 calories (lets say thats what im expelling each day) of donuts and frosting for all day I'd lose weight?

If your TDEE was, for example, 2,500 then yes, you'd lose weight. You've never seen a skinny person who ate junk food or drank soda? There was even a professor who went on an all junk food diet to make a point to his students about weight loss

cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

Insulin can't produce energy out of nothing. Your body needs a source of energy to operate. If you don't eat enough energy, it has to use the energy it has stored away, and it can't store what it doesn't have.

that's it brah!

>I call bullshit on this.

What's with this 2010s era trend of people who don't understand things "calling bullshit" on them

you get to call bullshit if you understand things

>believing in calories in calories out in 2017

Keep it up man. look great you should have abs in a few weeks at this rate.

Mmmmk. I'll look into it. Thanks for the informaton

Nice house.

>t low cholesterol carb cuck

how dat test going brah? still blaming genetics while blasting T in your angoose?

i don't know who to believe. there's so many opinions on both sides. i still get gains when i eat mainly pastas and meats. what else am i supposed to eat for bulking? pure chunks of meat, leafs, and beans everyday?

I'm adding 100 grams of vanilla ice cream to my shakes. How fucked I am?

the answer is to fuck what everyone thinks, leave humanity behind

>ONE DAY U MAY

Can't lift heavy and felt like shit not eating carbs. tried it, it doesn't work if you're trying to up your lifts.

If you want to be that nitpicky about macros that's fine, but carbs from - good sources - aren't bad and without enough you won't get far.

Eating at night can make the body require less calories though. Circadian dysrhythmia fucks your shit up.

nature.com/ijo/journal/v39/n12/full/ijo2015138a.html

>3 weeks

Your body may use less calories while you sleep but your body still has a total number of calories it's using in a day. If you ate nothing all day and then at the end of the night ate 1200 calories, you would still be losing weight because the net balance would still be negative. You were burning through stored fat all day, the 1200 calories at the end wouldn't replenish it all, much less lead to an increase.

inactive lifestyle the thread. you faggots should try be active for once in your life and you wouldnt be worried about stupid stuff like this. Hitting the gym 5 hours a week its not considered active..

This is about reduced thermic effect of food, which would be expected to reduce TDEE.

>Human studies have shown that both in adolescents and in adults, consuming more of the daily energy intake at evening is associated with an increased risk of obesity, hyperglycemia, lipid abnormalities, metabolic syndrome, non-alcoholic fatty liver diseases, and cardiovascular diseases [1,4,12,14,28,42-45].
>The timing of meals also influences the success of weight loss strategies: late-lunch eaters lose less weight than early eaters [47]; overweight/obese women lose significantly more weight after a low-calorie dinner weight-loss program than after an isocaloric high-calorie dinner program [48].

It's also consistent with lower insulin sensitivity later in the day. I don't disagree that there is a calorie limit. Just saying that it may not be as big if you eat at night.

>Coming to Veeky Forums looking for biochemical arguments to support simple dietary advice

>fructose cannot be used for energy
It's called fructolysis, which can result in complete fructose oxidation. DNL is inefficient and the majority of its products are futile cycled.

>and is 100% converted to lipids in the liver, causing visceral fat aka non-alcoholic fatty liver disease depending on consumption and liver health
>FUCK CARBS NIGGA, KETO FOR LIFE
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212877815000599
>a study reported that feeding healthy humans a 35% surplus of calories in the form of fructose for seven days caused an increase of 16% of intrahepatocellular lipids relative to control subjects, whereas a 30% caloric surplus in the form of dietary fat for only four days led to an 86% increase of intrahepatocellular lipids relative to control subjects

>Fuck what the doctors and scientists say, I know better than them

I-i don't know who to believe anymore. I have a bit of cholesterol. What do I limit, carbs or fat?

Since this is slightly related, maybe

>Used to eat tons of carbs
>diagnosed with diabeetus type 2 5 months ago
>drop 50 lbs
>blood sugar normal

I'm not at my goal weight but I'm headed there, I'm lifting, and I'm eating low carb. I understand beetus isn't curable, but once I hit remission can I finally relax? I'll never eat like I used to, but I'd be happy to eat a meal with carbs as a larger component without worrying that I'm killing myself.

I guess what I'm asking is : how much will my insulin resistance actually recover?

This guy knows whats up!

Sugar = Worst
Fat = Good
Protien = Good

I tell someone I eat less than 20g of Net Carbs per day, and they think I'm crazy and I am going to die. I tell someone I don't eat Sugar, and avoid Gluten like some dirty hippy, and they think thats great.

Since you are or were overweight, it's already immediately obvious that you had a lower-carb diet since higher-carb diets are essentially non-existent among the overweight population (and actual high carb diets are almost entirely absent across the entire western population). It also seems obvious that you most likely developed diabetes secondary to obesity rather than any particular dietary factor, so I don't even know what your question is. Cutting out all carbs is pretty much the worst thing you can possibly do since high-fat diets induce insulin resistance and saturated fat is toxic to the liver and pancreas.

Are you trolling me right now?

I ate pasta-based meals for lunch and dinner 5 to 6 days a week for 3 years. I was diagnosed with diabetes 5 months ago with an A1C of 7.1 I'm not saying carbohydrates caused my diabetes, but I had a diet incredibly high in them.

I began eating low carb immediately after diagnosis. My A1C is at 4.9 as of now.

My question is: when I go into remission will glucose from carbohydrates still negatively impact my blood sugar, or will my insulin resistance be reduced enough that I won't have to be so concerned every time I ingest over 40g of carbs?

Eat more sugar then right? Its safe

>Are you trolling me right now?
I'm just telling you the truth

>I ate pasta-based meals for lunch and dinner 5 to 6 days a week for 3 years
The fact that you think eating "pasta-based" meals on "5 to 6 days a week" reflects a high carb intake again indicates that you totally lack perspective in terms of what actually constitutes even just a moderately high carb intake (i.e. eating 400 grams of carbs a day 7 days a week, i.e. eating at least 125 grams of dry starches 3 times a day plus fruits and vegetables)

If your diabetes reverts with weight loss and exercise then of course you can eat carbs without exogenous insulin.

Of course I don't have perspective, that's why I'm asking for information on a Chinese cartoon image board when my doctor won't explain anything and is openly shocked at my health improvement.

When most of your calories come from carbs, is that not a high carb diet? I don't understand how you are breaking this down, nor do I understand how my diabetes could be reverting with weight loss if you claim weight wasn't the cause and my current diet would exacerbate it.

Do you have any information you could provide to clarify some of this?

Wow that's amazing.

I did mean to say that your diabetes probably developed as a result of excess body fat ("secondary to obesity" = as a consequence of obesity). Although there is a lot of talk about X food "causing diabetes", diabetes is much less common in lean people and being overweight is a major risk factor beyond almost anything else. So most people also see good improvements in diabetes when they reach a healthy body fat mass. It's good that your health is improving quickly with weight loss, keep at it!

>When most of your calories come from carbs, is that not a high carb diet?
It's all a matter of semantics and opinion, but high-carb probably starts around 60-65% and very-high carb is 70-90%. 50% is moderate and is lower than most of the world population, but there isn't necessarily anything wrong with 50% - it's just not high carb. With 50% carbs, fat will be 30-35% and then the source of fats is very important.

Thank you for the explanation and support.

I'd be shocked if my old diet was under 70% carbs, carbs were easily the main component of every meal.

Anyway
1. What's the best diet to keep blood sugar stable? Moderate carbs?
2. How can low carb exacerbate diabetes if the problem is glucose? Doesn't reducing glucose reduce blood sugar directly? I know it doesn't treat insulin resistance, but what does?

>mfw I realized this week I can just pour tomato arribata sauce on chicken breasts and some Parmesan cheese for a cheapo chicken parm that makes my chicken dinners not dismally boring and gives me some vegetable servings

BREEEEHHS

So... fruits are bad?

Most people who say "carbs r evil" don't even lift.
If you lift carbs are incredible. They give shitloads of energy and allow you to keep going when you'd normally be exhausted and want to go home.

this

how tf do you think someone can gain 30lbs of muscle without eating a boatload of carbs?

Adding about 100g of carbs back into my diet (bread, sweet potato, fruit) after doing keto turned me into superman.
Holy fuck I doubled my work capacity instantly. Keto is fucking miserable if you're lifting heavy weight to any kind of tempo but after that fat adaption, adding back in carbs is like chugging rocket fuel.
I think it's a little like altitude training. You purposefully restrict your energy supply during intense exercise and force the mitochondria to adapt. Once that is done, when you suddenly stick the go fast fuel back in the tank you can demolish a workout.
Still losing weight, funnily enough. I guess the fat adaption has continued even now that I'm out of ketosis. My rule of thumb is to avoid refined sugar, avoid anything in a package and eat plenty of green veg. The rest is as needed.

Best bit... no more electrolyte management. Fuck a diet that causes your body to purge essential electrolytes. A balanced diet should not force you do add teaspoons of salt to water and supplement potassium and magnesium just to not feel like shit.

>1. What's the best diet to keep blood sugar stable? Moderate carbs?
The best diet for keeping blood sugar "stable" is a ketogenic very-low-carb diet, but keeping blood sugar stable shouldn't be a priority in any diet. High-fat low-carb diets are very unhealthy in many ways, whereas fluctuations in blood sugar after eating carbs are completely normal. Of course handling carb loads with diabetes requires the appropriate medication to avoid hyperglycemia and excess NEFA

>2. How can low carb exacerbate diabetes if the problem is glucose?
High-fat diets induce insulin resistance in various tissues and excess saturated fat is mostly toxic to the liver, pancreas, muscles and hypothalamus in various ways. But losing excess body fat is the primary and most important thing to do in cases of obesity-associated diabetes, so whatever can get a person there in the healthiest way should usually be pursued first and foremost - keeping carbs moderate can sometimes be adequate, but going very low not so much except in select extreme cases

The problem in diabetes isn't "glucose" (whatever that means), the primary defect is insulin resistance in the liver and sometimes the alpha-cells, and sometimes the problem is also relatively insufficient insulin, or insufficient early-phase cephalic insulin. T2 Diabetes is very complex and there isn't a single model that fits all cases.

>Doesn't reducing glucose reduce blood sugar directly?
The reason diabetics have high blood sugar is because the liver releases too much glucose at all times, so whether you eat carbs or not doesn't change that the liver is out of control

nigga you know you can buy rice with the bran/shell still on it right?

You have to earn your carbs, by
>being lean
>being active
the leaner and more active you are, the more carbs you can have (and need)

>over 20% bodyfat and/or sedentary: no carbs for you
>15-20% bodyfat and/or only slightly active (eg. only gym a few times per week): carbs only pre- and post-workout
>under 15% bodyfat and/or very active (eg. manual labor job): carbs whenever you like

A lean adult man burns through at least 200 grams of carbs a day just sitting on his ass, so anything less than that inevitably causes gradual glycogen depletion. Having good glycogen status requires substantially more than 200 grams a day, of course.

Have a load of beers at the weekend to recover glycogen stores.

sugar without fibre raises blood glucose too fast, stores it as fat not glycogen

>being this retarded

Everything you eat and don't burn off becomes fat, muscle, bone, tendon, cartilage, heat, hair, nail, eye, blood, sperm, penis smegma etc. except probably carbs less so, because they have bigger thermic effect. (Startpage/qwant "thermic effect" for more info if you want.) But the difference between the thermic effect of each macro is not huge.

>But they're bad because they provide excessive energy. That excessive energy will store as body fat, even if you workout five times a week.

The same can be said about fats. 2.25 times more so, in fact.

Carbohydrate is only converted to fat when 2 conditions are fulfilled: Glycogen stores are full AND energy state is high. Whether this occurs with refined sugar or whole grains is irrelevant. Acheson did some good studies in the 80s and 90s, including a few where he gave people 500 grams of maltodextrin (pure glucose) within 2 hours, and none of it was stored as fat (just using random people on a mixed diet). Another study of his confirmed what we already know - that the background diet determines glycogen status and glycogen status determines the metabolic fate of carbohydrate. After a few days on a very high carbohydrate diet, 500g or refined glucose led to the production of 9g of fat, whereas on a few days of high-fat diet, this was less than 1g. However, it is of note here that eating 2000 calories of refined sugar only produces a few grams of fat even on a very high carb diet. So any concern about carbs being converted to fat is completely removed from reality. This is because intestinal absorption of glucose becomes rate-limiting at higher doses.

cals

Is there anything like those but more condensed and not narrated by someone who sounds like like a complete fucking fairy?

Low-carbers put out misinformation at faster speed than its possible to debunk, but for the Ancel Keys historical revisionism in particular, a few weeks ago a complete in-depth white paper was put out by a few experts as a response

truehealthinitiative.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/SCS-White-Paper.THI_.8-1-17.pdf

Of course even years ago Denise Minger (famous for criticizing the China Study) debunked the Ancel Keys nonsense

deniseminger.com/2011/12/22/the-truth-about-ancel-keys-weve-all-got-it-wrong/

And from CarbSane

carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/02/ancel-keys-its-time-to-appreciate-real.html

It also ties into the "sugar conspiracy" story that was particularly popular with fake news outlets like the NYT and CNN due to the amount of clicks it generated

nutrevolve.blogspot.com/2016/04/re-sugar-conspiracy.html
nutrevolve.blogspot.com/2016/04/tldr-re-sugar-conspiracy.html
carbsanity.blogspot.com/2016/09/the-slimey-truth-about-sugar-slammers.html

Also note who funds anti-sugar pro-fat movement (Including SugarScience institute that employs Robert Lustig and the people who invented the "sugar conspiracy" narrative)

carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/10/nina-teicholz-bmj-nutrition-coalition.html
carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/09/nina-teicholz-reports-in-british.html

jesus christ this thread should be stickied as evidence of why you should never listen to Veeky Forums for nutrition advice

great contribution there, super chief

>lord and saviour of gains, the macronutrient of choice of adult and productive people
>bad
Veeky Forums

Holy fuck, your belly was so big in the first pic that if you posted to a pregnant porn thread, dudes would happily fap to your pouch

Congratz man

Except it's not
By doctors and scientists you must mean hacks and psuedoscientists
>It's a tired false narrative that requires you to know nothing about the history of diet and heart disease beforehand and fall for a ridiculously implausable conspiracy theory.
Animal proteins/fats being proven to be good for you through tons of well researched scientific and historical evidence does not take a conspiracy theory to believe; and anyone who preaches the opposite is the one who knows nothing about history.
It's bullshit
>Low-carbers put out misinformation at faster speed than its possible to debunk
That "debunking" is pseudoscientific nonsense
>authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>uib.no/en/node/103172
>healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat
>bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
>press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>(cont.)

Maybe you can't but I rep 90s on the flat bench. First rep always makes me lightheaded as fuck but then I get this second wind and I go in. Same for like all other heavy 5x5 shit I do

(You) too

>authoritynutrition

kinda far in the post but stopped reading there

Flaxseed oil.

>Eating fat and cholesterol isn't a problem.
good goy

...

Good carbs = low glycemic index carbs like vegetables

Bad carbs = sugar, wheat, starch that spike your blood sugar in crazy ways. You don't have to cut these out completely just don't eat them everyday. Have a donut once a week or as long as you can go without and your body will thank you for it.

Eat - Meat, Cheese, Vegetables, Butter, some Fruits

>(cont.)
>but for the Ancel Keys historical revisionism in particular
>Of course even years ago Denise Minger (famous for criticizing the China Study) debunked the Ancel Keys nonsense
There is no "histoprical revisionism", aside from people worshipping him and his wrong diet heart hypothesis. And Denise merely pointed out info about his studies, she didn't absolve him of his bad science or bad ideas, in the third paragraph she even points out he himself admitted cholesterol levels weren't a heart disease factor; and in the comments it's rightfully still pointed out he had alot to do with demonization of animal fat. He might not have not been 'that' bad but he and was still wrong and a pseudoscientist that consistent historical and scientific evidence disproves, current and past

>anthonycolpo.com/the-great-polyunsaturated-swindle-new-research-reveals-previously-hidden-findings/
>Not reading then shitposting about it
Nothing new