There are STILL people who don't think rippletits is based as fuck

It's possible, especially if you read Practical Programming. There's some more advanced novice stuff. Light days, etc.

>She has contributed very little to any training conversation anywhere on this board. She has personally insulted me for the last time. May she rot in hell. Anyway, back to PTSD.

Fucking savage.

The funniest thing here is they don't list overhead press or power clean. Probably embarrassed about the OHP numbers.

>When I read this gentleman's post I could not stop rolling my eyes. I read it to my wife and she felt there must be some middle ground between this therapist's coddling tone and the tone of your response. On some level, I think she's right but that is not how I feel at the deepest core of me. When I read the therapist's post I feel anger at his coddling tone, I feel disgust that there are so many weak people in this world who can't seem to realize that they are the directors of their lives. If you don't like some aspect of your life's narrative, you can choose to leave it on the cutting room floor. You can choose the theme of your life even if you cannot control every plot point.
>But alas it seems as if so many people are like small cups of fragile china. And when life presents them with it's inevitable obstacles, their little cups easily runneth over. Perhaps these fragile people will find my analogy and tone to be wholly unsympathetic as they may find little solace in your response. But at the end of the day, I stand by the view that those that see themselves as masters of their fate are greater benefactors of humanity then those coddlers that feed on the sores of human weakness.

Even then there are way better strength programs.

Starting Strength is just a shitty copy of Bill Starr's routine that was made for already strong football players to peak their strength for a short time.

It's a fucking retarded program otherwise.

>36 months
>still a fat cunt with wide hips

>program made by guy who lifted for 25 years and by a guy who has PhD in anatomy + physiology and lifted for 10 years
>these guys are retarded, listen to me. I know more

power cleans are pretty hard to learn without a coach watching in person

>SS for 36 months

this is a meme, he did not do SS for 36 months

if he started from the bar (which you don't on SS) and added only 5lbs a week on average when taking stalls and resets into account (of which there are only three permitted on SS if memory serves), he would raise his squat by 720lbs and would now be squatting 765lbs 3x5

what he actually did was either
A. make it all up
B. be incredibly talented and actually progress to those lifts doing a low volume beginner routine way past the point where such a routine should be used (and he would have made far superior gains by moving on to a level appropriate program)

yet the only results posted was some fatty who ran it for 36 months.

No credible person in the fitness industry recommends this shit.

>if at least 2 people posted about it, it would prove me wrong
>i never went to his actual gym to show him im stronger and smarter

What strength or aesthetics routine gives a skinny fat person a fit body in 6 months?

90% of people doing SS won't do power cleans

There's more to a "fit body" than having tree trunk legs. SS is perfect for bottom bitches though.

I never said anything about 6 months but any other program or routine will get you there quicker than SS and have you not looking like a T-rex.

5/3/1, phat, phul, pplppl, gzcl to name a few.

You motherfuckers got stockholm syndrome from rippletits or something.

Literally all of you are fucking wrong and you should kill yourselves for pretending to know what you're talking about
The only person who actually knows his shit is

>if at least 2 people posted about it, it would prove me wrong

it would.

>i never went to his actual gym to show him im stronger and smarter

I'm not smarter than him, it's the collective reasoning of everyone in the fitness world that's smarter than him.

Rumplestiltskin is entertaining, he just shouldn't be trusted when it comes to training advice.

You're fucking wrong you retard I have a BS degree in exercise physiology

SS is a 6-7 months only program you faggot.

What do you disagree with?

Tell me which one you are and I'll show you your bullshit

>TFW getting the big thick Rip dick

Then why are faggots running it for 36 months?

I've legit never seen any 6 months progress post of someone who ran it and looked remotely better. prove me wrong.

That's a meme you faggot Maybe because no program will make you look good in 6 months from skinny fat. Maybe because it's called starting strength and rip multiple times he doesn't give a fuck about abs?

SO STOP FUCKING RECOMMENDING IT TO NOOBS WHO WANT TO LOOK GOOD.

You don't have to sacrifice abs to get stronger.
SS focus on pure strength is fucking retarded. you can have the best of both worlds, you don't to turn to a lard.

Everyone is told to follow SS without GOMAD unless super skelly hell rip tells fatties to cut.

You can it's just much slower process since fat is easier to lose than strength and muscle memory gains.

Those are people that don't run the program then. You're not doing the program by the book if you don't incrementally increase the weight at the very least once a week. Unless you're some super human, it's impossible to do the Starting Strength program for 3 fucking years

>I've legit never seen any 6 months progress post of someone who ran it and looked remotely better
You're not supposed to look better. You're supposed to gain somewhere between 10-40lbs over the course of training.
The goal of the first 6 months of any beginner in the gym shouldn't be to look good. It should be to get as much muscle as possible. With muscle comes strength. These two are inseparable

This is the difference between TRAINING and EXERCISE. Training is using exercises to reach a goal in the distant future. EXERCISE is just repeating some arbitrary pattern with no goal.

>SO STOP FUCKING RECOMMENDING IT TO NOOBS WHO WANT TO LOOK GOOD.
The only people who "look good" from exercise are people that have been lifting for 2 years. "Looking good" entails having a lot of muscle mass. You're never going to look good in 6 months as a beginner. And if you follow the route of bulking up 5 lbs a year until you can't see your abs and then cutting down, you'll never look good. You NEED to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle as a natural athlete.

>You don't have to sacrifice abs to get stronger.
Experience, both mine and others proves you wrong. You can just go fuck off and join the rest of the people who spend years in the gym without any result

>SS focus on pure strength is fucking retarded
Strength and muscle mass are synonymous. Very rarely can someone get strength without getting muscle at the same time.

>Compared to VOL (volume training), greater improvements (P < 0.05) in lean arm mass (5.2 ± 2.9% vs. 2.2 ± 5.6%) and 1RM BP (14.8 ± 9.7% vs. 6.9 ± 9.0%) were observed for INT (intensity training)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26272733

You can get stronger while keeping abs, it just takes longer.
There are plenty of people who hit intermediate lifter status in 4-6 months, where I have been lifting for a year and just became all intermediate.

However, most people in group 1 eat a lot more than me. I needed to stay fast for rugby, and actually lost weight for the first 3 months or so.

Just got to the gym so I can't reply to all your arguments in depth.

If you've gained muscle and haven't looked any better in six months you're doing something very wrong. You don't have to fucking waste 6 months building muh strength gains to look better.

And it doesn't fucking take 2 years to look good. Looking good is getting compliments daily from people, feeling confident about what you see in the mirror. It's not about some fucking aspie on an Internet board saying you look good.

Normie looking good is irrelevant when I was at the top of my bulk at 25% bfat but had 17 inch arms and big chest normies thought I had abs lel.

No one looks good or big in 6 months from a non sports background.

Holy fucking lol

Is this you in the pic?
>muh functional strength

THE only the worse than rippletits, is the mindless drones that would suck his cock and lick his dirty asshole if they had the chance

What the fuck is his problem anyway? All that fucking guy asked was how he could help his clients with PTSD and how rippletits has been affected by it. What a cunt.

the average normie has such low standards of what 'looks good' these days that their approval is basically worthless.
>oh wow you weigh 150lbs with visable abs and 14 inch arms you look amazing user

That's izrael something guy that is a powerlifter

He looks terrible, why would you post it if you're trying to convince people that strength = mass?
I'm convinced powerlifting is a mental illness

>With muscle comes strength. These two are inseparable
you can get strength without muscle, they are not inseparable, conditioning will bring huge amounts of strength compared to muscle gain
take a look at this previous gold medalist standing next to klokov, or go check out maxx chewnings scrawny (compared to what he lifts) legs

I didn't post him. But what's your beef with power lifting sure as hell less mental illness than a grown ass man posing in a Speedo tanned and oiled up to be judged by other men.
>inb4 muh super heavyweights

he still looks dyel in his 1124 lbs total final pic

Also, muscle=strength only applies at elite levels of strength. Someone can get big while "only" reaching lifts half of a pure strength athlete while being twice as big as the strength trainee.

Dude you keep claiming that strength and mass are inseparable, you sound like a desperate fat coping cunt
It's okay though, I know aspies love to see the number progression SS provides. Kind of like your MMORPGs, right?

You do know him and klokov are in the same team right being trained by similar coaches be just was off the good stuff.

>There are plenty of people who hit intermediate lifter status in 4-6 months, where I have been lifting for a year and just became all intermediate.
In the time that you spent gaining enough strength levels to become intermediate, you could have bulked up, cut down, and maintained for a few months, and you'd still have more muscle mass
This is the same reasoning as
>hurr durr my friend smoked for 10 years and he's still healthy
You can't just point at someone as proof that something works. You need to use concrete evidence that it works regardless of the person AND that it's the most effective way.

The average person in the united states is either overweight or obese. Looking good in comparison to the average person is like comparing a dog turd with a slightly less pleasing dog turd.
You have to compare yourself to people who actually take care of themselves. And maybe one day you'll graduate from a dog turd to a pigeon turd.

Nah m8. But my guess is that he could have looked like the last pic a long time ago, but he chose to keep a higher body fat to get stronger.

See the previous one.
Also he was focusing on strength training the entire time.
The point was to instill the notion that you have to bulk up first to gain muscle. And then after you've gained enough muscle you can cut down. Realistically he could probably have become the last one around May of '13. But chose to power lift instead.
Nobody really is saying that strength training routines is the only routines natural athletes should do. Theoretically he could get bigger with some other type of routine. But what we are saying is that NOVICES should be doing strength training.

I see you didn't bother reading THE NEXT SENTENCE. Besides, he probably didn't train at
Also in Ilya's last major event, he was in the 105kg weight class. That's 230 lbs. You don't think that a lot of that is muscle?

Is reading hard ?

>kazhaks and russians are in the same team
>klokov still competes and didn't start additional bodybuilding work, including one competition after leaving pure oly comp work

hmm rly mks u thkn

proof?

Idk is it?
>But what we are saying is that NOVICES should be doing strength training.
Literally no point to strength training as a "novice" unless you're a novice powerlifter lifting only for strength. Beginners gain more off of PPL or similar routines, SS really only teaches the basic lifts, but they don't carry over
1/2/3/4 isn't going to help with your isolations or volume

Posting this for the second time this thread

>Compared to VOL (volume training), greater improvements (P < 0.05) in lean arm mass (5.2 ± 2.9% vs. 2.2 ± 5.6%) and 1RM BP (14.8 ± 9.7% vs. 6.9 ± 9.0%) were observed for INT (intensity training)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26272733

Where is proof?

>I see you didn't bother reading THE NEXT SENTENCE
I did, I think you're basically saying, train for strength and you'll get muscle

strongerbyscience.com/size-vs-strength/

>1/2/3/4 isn't going to help with your isolations or volume
What did he mean by this?

> this one guy that is a deadlifting machine is the norm

keep deflecting, article is legit

I wouldn't recommend pure strength training to anyone that doesn't want to focus solely on strength, i.e. aspiring powerlifters.

Someone that wants to look good as soon as possible should look at hybrid routines, and at worst do SS with plenty of accessories, which then again means he's not doing the program and probably won't progress as fast in the big three

>this one guy
feel free to go over the cbt and see people benching over 225 with small chests, or here's a girl that has low muscle high strength

holy shit i remember this delusional picture from back then

Actually I reread by own comment, the point at where I mentioned the next thing was
>Strength and muscle mass are synonymous. Very rarely can someone get strength without getting muscle at the same time.

But for your link
>Or how can a guy who weighs 187lbs bench press 451lbs, when plenty of people with more upper body musculature are still struggling to crack 400lbs, or even bench 315lbs for the first time?
>Or how can a 17-year-old kid who weighs 170lbs squat 562lbs for an easy set of 3, even though most lifters who weigh a lot more would kill to hit those lifts?
We're not talking about intermediate or even advanced lifters here. We're talking about novices trying to gain muscle
The only section in that article that discusses the training of novices does not include anything about how much muscle a novice gains in different programs/routines

The only study that DOES talk that I've read about this is the one I've already posted twice in this thread before
>Compared to VOL (volume training), greater improvements (P < 0.05) in lean arm mass (5.2 ± 2.9% vs. 2.2 ± 5.6%) and 1RM BP (14.8 ± 9.7% vs. 6.9 ± 9.0%) were observed for INT (intensity training)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26272733

Tiny chests

Also to more accurately state what we're discussing.
We're discussing the increasing of strength as it relates to muscle mass in beginner lifters.
The way advanced lifters get so strong for their bodyweight is that they alternate between periods of higher bodymass and lower bodymass, however the strength is overall higher across the start of the bulk and the end of the cut, and of course higher still at the end of the bulk.
But that's beside the point. We're still not discussing the training of advanced athletes

yeah it's years old, I didn't make it but I'm glad I saved it since no one posts it anymore, posting strength != size got wiped out when SS got popular on this board
there used to be a lot of people in cbts that looked good and posted their brosplits and now if you post that you get accused of roids or people shit on tiny bits of your physique
basically Veeky Forums is for memes, nothing else

>We're not talking about intermediate or even advanced lifters here. We're talking about novices trying to gain muscle
>Early on in training, there’s a very weak relationship between gains in muscle and gains in strength

from personal experience, getting stronger does not mean you'll be gaining more muscle than other methods of progressive overloading, more reps at a lower weight worked great for me

thanks for going through

I don't see much difference between fake natties on youtube shilling products promising they'll get juicy compared to people on Veeky Forums posting how a strength routine will get them juicy, except the fake natties get paid

>>Early on in training, there’s a very weak relationship between gains in muscle and gains in strength
Where is the actual study that claims this? I've looked up and down the article but I can't see it
>The participants were men with at least 6 months of training experience: the average 1rm squat at the start of the study was about 120kg (about 265lbs), so they clearly had a bit of experience squatting, but weren’t incredibly well-trained.
The people who have 120kg squats are late novices. They're not untrained unlike in my study that actually shows an increase in improvement doing intensity training.
And listen carefully. IT IS NOT MEASURING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT PROGRAMS

This is all including the fact that the study actually proves what I'm suggesting, that an increase in strength shows an increase in muscle mass (pic related)

>more reps at a lower weight worked great for me
Again with the shitty arguments
>hurr durr I was smoking for 10 years and I didn't get cancer
The point is to measure the difference between different programs.
Programs that focus on intensity bring strength and size to beginner athletes.
Programs that focus on volume bring only size.

Which is a better program to follow?

>how much do you leg press though
>implying a rippedrone will EVER say that
that picture is 100% made up for several reasons, this has been discussed countless times

What is his PTSD about?

literally the opposite, read article

Ruining Zach's life

m8 you have to be more specific than that, I looked up and down the article but I don't see any indication of training suggestions for advanced powerlifers.
And what am I wrong about?
Am I wrong that powerlifters are stronger at higher bodymass?

I was watching a podcast with him and rippetoe refused to awknoledge that SS will make your leg bigger than your upper body. The guy asking him even sugar coated it yet he kept pretending that if you didn't grow enough upper body it must be because you're not eating enough

But it doesn't
You do one push, one pull, and one leg every single day in SS. And even nearing the end when you're on phase 3, half of your pulling movements are solely upper body

>3 or 6 sets of bench a week is enough to grow a chest

ok whatever dude

Curling in the squat rack

Zac and thousands of other poor kids.
I feel so sorry for them :(

>(current year)
>people still not realising that SS is not about bodybuilding
Shiggy diggy

If you do the program correctly, yes
The program suggests that progressive overload works best on bench with 2.5lb jumps in total.
The reason is that the muscle size in total is bigger in the legs, making legs progress faster than upper body. So if we're progressing in 5 lb jumps in the squat we have to take it slower in the bench and OHP.
This is why people find that volume works for bench. Because it's easier to progress from 3x10 at 135lb to 3x10 at 140lb. But instead if we want to see strength results, you'd be better off doing 3x5 at 165lbs and progressing to 167.5lbs next session

Besides, chin ups give me a far superior chest pump than bench

I benefited from SS because Rippetoe is pretty good at explaining form. I never attempted barbell squats before SS.

After two weeks of SS I got bored with only going to the gym three times a week and started doing pplppl.

this pplppl is working well for me
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149807833

Good man.

except i only do squats on leg day and then a 6-exercise ab routine

>I don't allow myself to get triggered
>>Mark u a lil bitch u don't even have PTSD cunt lmao
>[T R I G G E R E D] RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEE GET THE FUCK OFF MY FORUM YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH [softly whimpers in the
corner of the squat rack while hugging Mr. Zackzzles]

Really?

>Then why are faggots running it for 36 months?

Because they are faggots. Just do the math and any fool will see that Starting Strength is good for about 4 months of solid progress (assuming you are an untrained man 18 - 35).

>pic related

Also, Starting Strength doesn't even begin with the bar, so my calculations are probably too long. The basic program probably wouldn't make it 3 months.

In conclusion, the average fool should be able to get to a 1/2/3/4 plate press, bench press, squat, and deadlift in 5 months of Starting Strength if they are doing the program.

For perspective, that means a complete noob that started tomorrow should be done sometime in January 2018.

Form there, they should be able to do more complex and specialized programming needed to have a beach body by late spring 2018.

>it's easier to progress from 3x10
How is it easier to add some weight and move it 10 times than to add the same weight and move it 5 times? Assuming you work at RPE 8-9.5 (what you should do) your 5RM should increase much faster.