Is the gym the ultimate redpill?

i started gym as a 50kg skelly but on day 2 i realized that my willpower was way superior.
so i squatted 4plate.

no it doesn't, but the thing is, the way you said it is acceptable, the way they said it is just a retarded excuse to avoid lifting

>also why does are the right so obsessed with traditional societal roles and values, while also embracing increasing technological progress which inherently changes society?
Because some things are worth preserving even amidst change. Not all change is good and some foundational things should remain rooted in tradition. Are you seriously so stupid and ignorant that you couldn't think of that yourself?

>doesn't mean you're more valuable as a human being.
It means you are stronger than other human beings and in certain situations this makes you more valuable.

It does, however. If A is physically superior to B and B cannot compensate this difference in any other way, then A is objectively superior to B. It does depend on who's comparing the two however. For grills looks are supreme and you can't really 'compensate' them being nice/smart/whatever.

Although it's not socially acceptable to say you're superior because you lift, if you attain a good enough physique people will realize this by themselves. Men respect tall/stronger men way more than they respect short/weaker men. Girls admire height, etc.

we've developed a civilization in the west where those situations essentially never come up

you're talking about difference in social status, which is another thing entirely. I'm talking about the inherent value and dignity of every human life. you're just thinking about this ladder theory bullshit where all that matters is what other people think of you.

It does in that aspect.
Think of it this way; if you have two identical people and one is stronger, that person is more useful, thus superior.

Of course, in the real world, that is only one aspect of a human being so it doesn't necessarily make a stringer person objectively superior in every way.

>we've developed a civilization in the west where those situations essentially never come up
and that's the problem

>genetics matter but willpower matters more

Not even remotely true. Genetics are probably 70 percent of it.
How do i know this? Because I've seen it.

In my gym there were two people I talied to regularly: one was a 5'11" 170 pound lean high school kid who got to bench 225 for 3 sets of 10 after three months of fucking around on a bodybuilding.com program, and the other dude was 22 years old, 5'9", who was bulking and doing powerlifting, eating a shitload of food and got up to 200 pounds and his bench was 215 pounds for a 3 rep max after SIX months

Now you might say the 22 year old just has to train longer. But do you really think he'd ever be able to match the raw natural talent of the 17 year old kid just off of willpower?

My friend whos 21 and trained for 2 years is doing 185 on standing overhead press for reps. Like 6-8. Clean. Yet there are people doing 115-120 that have bigger shoulders and triceps than him. You think willpower can fix that?

Not everyone is meant to be big and strong. Not eveyone CAN be big and strong.

why is that a problem? a society that ranks people purely on their physical strength would create a rigid hierarchy based on genes nobody has any control over. how is that just?

I guess I was hoping for a more nuanced answer than "I think some things should remain the same while absolutely everything changes".

Like I still think it's absolutely retarded to promote technological change that you know for a fact will change society in an unknowable amount of ways, and then also say that certain traditions must be clung hopelessly onto.You're gonna lose.

There's a reason the right will lose the cultural war and it's this. Unless you start denouncing the rate of technological integration in society you will absolutely get left behind because the bulk of your ideas are in the past and there is no intellectual conservative promotion of how to create a new world alongside the growing infiltration of technology into our lives.

The left at the very least make an attempt to redefine political and societal traditions and beliefs that understand we live in a new world. The right are political stuck are doing no such things. It's why I truly don't see this "movement" getting any further than lonely, repressed and shut off white men on the internet.

>the inherent value and dignity of every human life
completely subjective. You know what's not subjective? If A is physically superior to B and B cannot compensate this difference in any other way, then A is objectively superior to B.

a society where strenght is no longer valued will eventually become weak and unable to face real problems
oh wait, it's already happening

Willpower is a multiplicative bonus to genetics

If you have a very low willpower roll you are trash no matter your genetic rolls

If you have max willpower and anything but debilitating vegetable genetics you can be a champion of your environment

>inherent value and dignity
Fat people inherently have less value and dignity as human beings than fit people. If they valued themselves or had any dignity then they wouldn't be fat.

>those situations essentially never come up
You've never had to help a friend move furniture? The truth is that even in or modern world strength and fitness contribute a great deal to the usefulness and value of an individual.

that isn't subjective. it's a principle that says simply that every human life has inherent value and dignity that has to be protected.

how it should be protected, and justly, is debatable of course.

>a society that ranks people purely on their physical strength would create a rigid hierarchy based on genes nobody has any control over. how is that just?

You're on Veeky Forums dude. Everyone here is an 18 year old DYEL libertarian who simultaneously hates themselves but is convinced they're the ubermensch because they go to the gym 3 days per week.

Conscientiousness is only 49% inhereted.

If anything, iq is the most genetically predetermined factor. Conscientiousness can be developed over time as you age, for openness you literally have a magic pill that you can take to permanently increase it and who fucking cares about extraversion, neuroticism and agreeableness.
Well, being successful at lifting weights and actually looking good implies that you have some grounding in reality, which means that you are less likely to support a stupid radical ideology
The problem is mostly about how both sides make it seem like the only choice is to support the radicals now and how those radical movements are getting more and more people. And then you have shit like those postmodern neomarxists being very powerful in universities AND having radical street gangs and aint that pretty. Alt right will soon have its own street gangs and look where we are heading. A lot of political change is created by radical youth. So even if radicals are a minority, it doesnt mean that its not dangerous

The guy with great genetics and low willpower just sits at home and sleeps.

Where is that in your calculation?

well not really, i mean that's a terrible stereotype...
...i'm 22

The ultimate redpill is living a wholesome and well-rounded life, being the best individual you can be. The gym is a big part of that, but there's also stuff like having a job, having a family, having interesting hobbies (i.e. being an interesting person), living an orderly lifestyle, etc. Of course being physically fit makes all the rest of those things easier as well.

>you're just thinking about this ladder theory bullshit where all that matters is what other people think of you.

The reason you lift is because you care what people think of you.
You study your ass off to get a good job, earn a good pay and improve what people think about you.
You want a nice car because you fucking care what people think about you.
You don't walk around dressed like an autist because you care what people think about you.
You spend money on getting a haircut, buying good clothes, and even accessory faggotry because you care what people think about you.
You roid without telling anyone because you care about what people think of you.
Everything you do outside of immediately surviving you do because you give a shit about what people think of you.

Don't give me this fucking bullshit about 'idgaf what people think LOL' if you didnt you wouldnt even get out of bed in the morning. Also there's no such thing as inherent, objetive 'value of human life' since it's something 100% subjective that you cannot measure. You're using the same kind of 'logic' fatties use wanting to argue about something subjective and taking arguments out of your ass.

welcome to weimar america John, expect a lot of shit hitting the fan

hahah dude there's literally no problem we currently face that will be solved by deadlifting

you're so right. I forgot how much our society values people who move furniture. I can't wait for the next day laborer parade that happens every month.

why am I even fucking around with this

Just to add onto this, people always assume when they say "genetics" its referring to bone structure and all that.
Its not just that. Genetics also determine your response to training. Meaning you can get muscular off of shitty programs if youre genetically inclined to.
I spent one summer as a stone masonry labourer and by the end of the summer i was bigger and leaner than my friends who were lifting in the gym

>we've developed a civilization in the west where those situations essentially never come up

>what are a host of construction jobs, woodworker, general tradesman skills where huge strength may help a lot (meaning you will make more money and have more success)
>what is the bio chemical part of it, and the more testosterone you get from having big muscles (faster reaction speed, more energy, better teamplayer, mind functions better) (basically better in ALL jobs)

>hahah dude there's literally no problem we currently face that will be solved by deadlifting
it's all in the mindset Marx, if you have the will to lift you also have the will to face your problems

not really. I generally do most of those things because they ensure my survival in a brutal american society.

but in any case, that person was equating social value with the inherent value of human life.

In this instance, I'm assuming that when the OP used the term "willpower" he meant it as in how hard and seriously a person will train in the gym. Its assumed that the person in question actually goes to the gym and trains.

>Dude twitter exist therefore all women should be sluts lol.

Technological change doesn't necessarily have to affect society in the way that it is currently being manipulated to do. You seem to think our society is just some huge rudderless ship that we can't affect or change in any way but what you fail to realize is that there is a certain group of malicious people at the high levels of society who are doing just that.

how is it not? I'm not the strongest, healthiest around so I'm not being selfish when I say that in a world with actual, physical challenges the strong, healthy should be promoted to the fullest to ensure the in-group's survival. whether someone like me could contribute enough to be valued or not I don't know. if brains are important I have a better shot so I'm glad to be born in this time compared to MOST other times. sure. but do you never fantasize about real challenge? about the necessities of life driving you to work physically, rather than the knowledge that your body will decay if you don't? and don't you feel like we are collectively growing weaker and weaker because we lack any kind of challenge?

I dont live in america, m8. I live in russia. Obviously shit hitting the fan in america isnt going to end well even for people who live across the globe. Hell, you retards managed to bring down the world economy by doing some not so intelligent things with mortgages and real estate. Shit already isnt pretty here tho, wouldnt want to make it worse. I am probably going to move to canada out of this shithole too, so there is that.

i'm not american Dmitri, i'm italian

to be honest with you know. I lift because I like being strong, and I think it's a worthwhile thing to do. It's also important to cultivate self-discipline, and in my view it's a key part of becoming a fully actualized human being.

but as far as our survival is concerned, we've basically solved all of those problems.

Close enough, m8. This shit is going down throughout the west anyway, no place is safe. Might not be like that in italy tho, cuz its a bit on the second world side from what i know.

>we've basically solved all of those problems.

...for now.

not really, no. lifting is cool and good for you but you're trying to put political, ideological meaning on something that doesn't really need it.

lift because it cultivates self discipline and because you value hard work and dedication. stop trying to make it about this alt-right horse shit.

Genetics matter more than willpower. If you have lowtest you can work your ass off and get nowhere

>but as far as our survival is concerned, we've basically solved all of those problems
Tell that to Europeans
I'm not even /pol/

oh it is hitting the fan here too, not as much as the USA though
we're actually first world though

the more urban the more dangerous, though. regardless what country. flee into the most rural area you have somewhat nearby before a real crisis breaks out.

>a society that ranks people purely on their physical strength would create a rigid hierarchy based on genes nobody has any control over.
Uh, do you even natural selection, bro? It is only right that the strongest rule over the rest.

I don't think it should be defined solely by physical strength. But we do need eugenics and social Darwinism.

> I'm talking about the inherent value and dignity of every human life
Is this some kind of joke?

if this is really what you think then I don't know why you'd be surprised that all of the people who would lose in an arrangement like this (which includes SJWs and fat people) come out opposed to it.

>It is only right that the strongest rule over the rest.

...if strength is vital to survival. Survival of the fittest means fitting in the environment, not being Veeky Forums. It's a fact that right now strength is a holdover from our past and if things stay the way they are we are going to lose our strength and develop other attributes more. Like being an obnoxious faggot who can talk others into buying things, or just wanting babies really badly since everyone else will use contraception, or worst of all being too stupid to use contraception. Right now survival of the fittest literally means smart and strong people go extinct while horny idiots multiply. The ultimate irony is of course that the former groups created this state we're in so they effectively abolished themselves. It's like how men made themselves replacable by inventing machines that enable women what they would need a man for in the past, except on an even larger scale.

Well, good luck
Russia has a lot of largely uninhabited rural areas, but its not really a first world country either and it doesnt quite have those issues with political radicalisation as of now. We only have United Russia and every other party basically doesnt do shit, so we cant really have polarisation. Not like shit cant hit the fan here, its just here it will happen for different reasons compared to what is happening in the west

Who said I was surprised?

>all men are created equal but we are not the same
>you can compete with others without being envious
>you can compete with yourself to try and be your best self
>lifting for females

Fine. Then: don't be surprised when you can't persuade literally anybody to your bad program.

I realize that. But it's not the first time society got fat and decadent, and it has never stayed that way for very long. Capitalism, democracy, "western-values", all of these are absolutely fucked. And I say good riddance, if society is only going to eat itself even more this presents a brilliant opportunity.

I don't expect to convince people who would lose out in a Social Darwinist society. I expect them to get crushed when creating such a society actually becomes a possibility.

it won't become a possibility if basically nobody wants any part of it. look at all those dumbass nazis who got stomped at Charlottesville.

I don't think it's at all likely, but it's inevitable that western liberal democracy will collapse. It is then that anything becomes a possibility, no matter how improbable, because the future is uncertain.

No one even needs to want it, I'm sure a majority of people in 1917 wouldn't have voted for the Bolsheviks. This is the thing about those people being useless, if it happened they wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

>look at all those dumbass nazis who got stomped at Charlottesville.
I'm not a Nazi, Nazis are idiots.

How do I cope that what I learned in college will never be respected? I did finance/accounting and I have engineering/stem friends that don't respect my profession.

I'm the only few ones that are employed amongst my friend groups, yet i'm treated in a lower position than the civil engineers that have no jobs and the MCAT failures.

no most people wanted a leftwing government at that time.

It's not un-respected. Your friends are just crab-people.

Not even a majority of people in the party wanted the Bolsheviks, the Mensheviks were the more popular faction.