Starting Strength or Stronglifts, what's truly the best for someone who wants to get stronger and look better?

N-Sun's 531 is unironically the best beginner routine

>Appropriate volume, and base building so you're not just peaking
>Flexibility in accessories so it's not pointlessly specific, serves dual purpose for aesthetics or powerlifting, whatever the fuck you want.
>You'll actually have a work capacity. Yes, your body can handle 9 sets of compounds 5x a week. You're not made of paper.

Open to an actual discussion on this, rather than calling me a faggot and sucking ripptoe's dick

liftvault.com/programs/powerlifting/n-suns-lifting-spreadsheets/

I know the recent trend is minimalism, but I can't fucking stress enough how much you're actually shortchanging yourself with SS/SL memery.

Bench press and overhead press 3 times a week on the same day. Good luck with that. Your Overhead press is going to stall right away; your front delts will be completely fucked.

I dont like 5-3-1 for begginers. I think ivysaur's one is better.

>doesn't know about PPL

Can you recommend a routine?

...

Lift shit up, put it down, repeat

You need more volume in upper body buddy

That's not the og 531 for beginners, n-Sun's is 9 sets tier 1 and 8 sets assistance.

I like Ivysaur and no doubt he has a sick aesthetic but n-Sun's 531 uses INOL & Prilepin's Chart and as a result is much more sustainable, maybe even to 3/4/5

There's a lot to be said for just going fucking ham and doing PPL for year months but there's also a lot to be said for doing your research and carefully structuring your programming.

That said even a fucking brosplit is preferable to SS/SL if you bust ass and give it everything.

Will you end up stronger doing SS/SL? Yeah in the short term, long term the guy doing the brosplit who decides to start taking it seriously is gonna blast past the SS guy because he's built up a decent muscular Base and muscular endurance while SS bro got gassed attempting to squat 225 without a 4 minute rest

Doesnt really matter as much as Veeky Forums autists will have you believe. Your noob gains arent going anywhere because they are measured in strength, not time spent training. You will get just as strong on nearly any beginner strength program as long as you do your part even if it takes marginally longer.

If you want to get autistic about something, it should be your diet.

>not doing GZCLP
cmon brehs

It's all the same shit. Just do linear progression till you start stalling and hop onto an aesthetics routine (UL/PPL/brosplit). If you're consistent over enough time it won't even matter

What are you talking about on SS you could squat 225 for 10 easy in 3 months easy, in 6 I bet you could do it for 20. If you get strong enough 225 is baby weight. Bro splits certainly have some benefits but saying those guys will end up stronger then ss fags is retarded. Have you ever actually done it?

never under any circumstances do starting strength

Being a beginner is hard, I started SS a month ago and I have no idea what's a meme and what's not

>this
Perfect blend of strength and hypertrophy with actual smart and fluid progression.

What is the progression protocol for T3 lifts? This infographic doesn't explain any.

The original progression is to do 3x15+ and when you can do 25 reps on the last set, go up pounds.

>that out of wack push/pull ratio

enjoy snapping ur shit up due to muscular imbalance

>ICF
>wanting to look like Jason Blaha

Lyle McDonald's bulking routine

Thanks. BTW is GZCL an okay program to do while cutting?

Not natty
On test for sure

>implying there is anything wrong with ICF

10k cals a day
strongman lifts

Ss is a troll is a troll. Yes, screw ss,for this other very similair routine also based on bench, squat, and, deadlift. Only thing is you might want a little more arms and the ss is a troll thing is likely people being actual trolls or being retarded and doing gomad. Keep it up user

Agreed. The biggest downside for the absolute beginner is more exercises to learn right off the bat and more personal planning. I was fucking up my shoulders bad on nSuns before adding in face pulls, more chin ups, lat pull downs, and rows.

stupid question

are the ones circled in red the ones i base progression off of? where is monday's bench's 1+ set?

...

also, what does warming up look like on nSun?

yes
similar to SS: adjusted to your needs. I do 5-10 minutes on a rowing machine before my first set, then work up bar, 50%, 65%, (75% sometimes) then start work sets

the guy who wrote the program is an unlifting sack of shit even though he takes gear

would you do a workout jason genova wrote?

gonna need some specifics cuz i'm a beginner

>im assuming you use friday's 1+ set for bench progression and that's why monday's doesn't have one, is this correct?

let's say i'm using the pic as my program, so my 1RM for bench is 250, my TM is 225, and my first work set on Monday is 145x8

What would your warm-up on Monday look like for bench? how many reps at each weight?

70x8, 90x6, 105x4, then work set of 145x8?

Also, how long do you rest between sets?

master race coming in

What do you guys think of this protcol.
Workout A:chest, legs
Workout B:back, shoulders
Day 1 A
Day 2 B
Day 3 A
Day 4 B
I've been looking at these routines and just feel that back,chest, and shoulders on one day. Then legs on the next doesn't eqaute. It just seems you'd be doing much more on the first day.

Monday's just for volume, no 1RM testing, and no effect for progression. Just get your reps in. It's warm up is basically part of the progression since you're starting with a pretty low percent of your 1RM. Don't worry too much. It's always nice mentally to start with the empty bar. For that weight, I'd then do a quick set of 95x5, 135x5 and then start. If you feel weak, do another. If you are feeling great, they aren't super necessary.

Rule of thumb: 60-90 second rest between warm ups, light sets, and hypertrophy work. 2 minutes for work sets when you are feeling good, up to about 4 when you need it. 4-5 for those squat sets.

I know a lot of shit seems like a really exact science, but the basics are simple to understand and execute. Don't let the details stress you out.

If you are going to run that program, for the love of god don't neglect your back. You should be working out back at least Mon and Thurs, and I'd add Wednesday as well since you're a beginner. Chin ups, pull ups, lat pull downs, pendeley rows, and please do facepulls. Your shoulders will feel so much better

yeah someone in the thread was talking about how they hurt their shoulders doing nsuns and that's pretty terrifying

it looks like there's a ton of pushing in this program so should i try to pull for most of my accessories?

also on the assistances, is it 1 exercise for each group mentioned or what? For example, Monday's assistances are chest, arms, back, so would I do DB flies, hammer curls, and chin ups? Or do I do like 2 exercises for each?

So StrongLifts or Greyskull LP for 3 months to get some ez noob gains.

Then switch to a bodybuilding style routine afterwards.

I don't recommend SS because it's difficult to learn how to power clean without coaching.

It's open for you to choose what you want to add to it. Shoot to do like a 2:3 push:pull ratio given that most of your pulling is gonna be body building (assistance) style, and your pushing is strength (i.e. like 3-5sets of 10ish vs the 9 sets of 3, 5, etc). You'll only fuck up your shoulders if you don't do decent pulls with them to balance the pushing, like what happened to the user above.

You get to choose what assistance exercises you want to do based on how your main lifts progress. Make sense?

>People not recommending Candito's Hypertrophy LP
>Upper /lower
>Has paused work to help technique
>Has a ligther day to focus on technique
>Has waaay more upper body volume than SS
>Can swtich template to change focus of training
>Simple progression and exercise selection

SS is good but simply lacks upper body volume
Same with SL
This program can literally take you from novice to a 4 plate squat if you plan properly

yeah, that makes sense.

two final questions:

1. what does a stall / deload look like on this program?

2. i'm still a skelly lifting babby weights. on SS, I'd be able to reliably add 15lb./week to my squat and deadlift and 10lb./week to my bench and press. What kind of progression could I expect on nsun?

>2 lifts for the same muscle is too much

This is what people that stopped learning about lifting after SS/SL actually believe. You will always be a pasty, dyel doughboy.

Agreed. The only criticism I've heard of this routine is it needs a little more shoulder volume. 99% of reviews I've seen are positive.

>beginner program
>benching 2-3 times a week

this is literally retarded.

stick with SS, at least that's proven to work. as soon as you plateau, switch to something else. by then (~4-6 months) you'll know if you prefer training for strength or for hypertrophy.

if you want strength, do wendler's 5/3/1, if you want hypertrophy do a random split.

people hate on SS, but almost no one sticks to the program. there is no other program that will get your squat from 50kg to 160kg in less than 6 months.

>this is literally retarded.

Nah, just you bb. It's 1-2 times a week, same as SS, which you recommended. Also there's nothing wrong with a beginner benching 2-3x a week.

>benching 2-3 times a week

what

you alternate with OHP

did you even read the img?

This

>beginner program has no volume
ayyy

PPL

Push
>Bench
>OHP
>Triceps
>Chin ups
Pull
>Rows
>pull ups
>biceps
>shoulder dumbell work
Legs
>Squats
>Hip thrust
>Calf rises
Repeat Push with OHP first
Repeat Pull
Repeat Legs with DL instead of Hip Thrust.

This is a six day / out of seven work out. I do five reps - at a weight that feels like I can't do six. Then go as many sets as I can, typical five or six. I then eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight spread out evenly throughout the day.

a regular brosplit did it for me:
Chest/biceps
Back/triceps
Legs/shoulders
4th training repeat one of the previous days

SL5x5 with some accessories into PPL.

It's about work capacity in the long term. BLSS is a much better full body program.

for shits and giggles yeah

This and SS/SL and other 3x5 beginners programs are the same shit. There is no real difference.

Beginner should do this
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

Monday
Hi Bar Squat 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Bench Press 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Deadlift from 3” Blocks 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Chest Supported Rows 4×10-15 Reps
Walking Lunges 2×12 Steps
Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted If Necessary)
Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps
Wednesday
Front Squat Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Widegrip Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Cable Rows 4×10-15 Reps
Leg Press 2×10-15 Reps
DB Incline Bench 2×10-15 Reps
Good Morning 2×10-15 Reps
Friday
Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
RDLS 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Lat Pulldowns 4×10-15 Reps
DB Step Ups 2×6 Each Leg
DB Military Press 2×10-15 Reps
Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps
Saturday
Box Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
Closegrip Bench 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR
One Arm DB Rows 4×10-15 Reps
Goblet Squats 2×10-15 Reps
Incline Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted if Necessary)
Good Mornings 2×10-15 Reps

>no fucking volume
YOU'RE RIGHT. 3x10 bicep curls is SOOO much more strenuous on your body than 5x5 rows (which work your biceps + back)

I never heard of anyone actually do this. This entire program was based on just criticizing stronglifts/starting strength and trying to be different. Most success stories I've seen are doing SS/Stronglifts for 1 month, learning firsthand how shit it is, and then switching to PPL

For a total noob choice doesn't matter.
Then hop on GLSP
Then hop on a proper intermediate program

DON'T SKIMP ON ACCESSORIES - ABS, SHOULDERS ESPECIALLY

nice strawman

see for what some good volume looks like

what about daniel craig, did he roid?

>someone who wants to get stronger and look better?

Getting your diet under control is more important for your goals than your routine friendo

>2-3 times a week
Do you even know how to read?

how to add accessories properly?
I'm currently lagging a lot on arms and shoulders due to falling for 3x5 meme, but I don't know how to program it

Both are absolute shite

Both are good for beginners. SL has a bit more volume. The reason they work, for Veeky Forums's autismaloids, is that they're fucking simple. Too many other programs have too many special bits to track for beginner lifters or spend too much time on assistance shit. Beginner lifters need a program that's so simple a toddler could do it that acquaints them with the basics, and that's what they do.

Yeah, just go for smaller weight jumps

If you too the time to read so you'd know how to do this properly.
>You're the meme

what

>wants to 'look better'
>does any form of SS

started doing SS last week. The thing is I'm at home and only have the weights. This means no big rack, support or safety pins of any kind. How do I ramp up weight while staying safe and not hurting my body or damaging my property? Buying a rack will be on the list once I get a real home but in my apartment it would literally take up an entire room and the gyms are too far to keep interested in going consistently (I love being able to stand up, take off my clothes and start going at it instantly).

Is it horrible to do SS with little weight and no progression? I never planned to get big anyway, but I'd like to be able to help someone move his damn couch without dying the next day. The nice thing is since doing one set doesnt completely kill me I usually pop a set of another exercise so it goes really fast AND helps my cardio from staying total shit. For example I'll do 1x5 squats, then pull 1x5 overhead press and stop. I'll do my pendlay rows a little bit after that, then rest, then repeat the 2 sets, short pause, third set. I do my dips after everything is done.

You'll progreas just as fast at first, most likely. Deload looks basically the same as SSSL. 90% off your training max. Or at least that's what I've done. There's a whole nSuns subreddit. Check that out, too

>Is it horrible to do SS with little weight and no progression?

That's not SS. That's fucking around.

I'm a skinnyfat dude who wants pic related body. Would this do it? I'm strapped for time with my graduate program so I like keeping it 3 days a week.

as I've said I can't squat 250lbs cause I don't have a rack with safety measures. I tried body weight exercises but I found it to be a very annoying routine for me. What would you suggest then?

I'm not just lifting 2 pound dumbbells, but it's obviously less than what I'd be doing in a gym.