Is this accurate?

You still have no argument. All your doing is saying "hurr Durr ss bad but I won't tell u why xD". Explain yourself or fuck off?!?!

reddit nsuns 531

what kind of a fucking argument would you possibly require to discredit the absolute dogshit of a routine that is ss? i could eat an exercise list and shit out a better program.if you absolutely need a name behind a set of exercises try lyle mcdonalds generic bulk, jonie candito's linear program(s), alphadestiny's novice, ws4sb, or any sane 2-way split that unlike ss covers every muscle group sufficiently

You still haven't explained why ss bad lol...

yes i have done so though indirectly, ss has insufficient volume, doesnt cover all muscle groups and lacks balance between lower and upper body work. it alsolacks flexibility and is overly dogmatic

Not the guy you're talking to but do you even have any lifting experience? Look at that guy's after pic, he barely changed. His chest is fucking nonexistant. His arms, shoulders, everything (even his fucking legs, hilariously) are all completely DYEL. He did not make significant progress at all and would look like shit after cutting.

You don't need high volume with strength training, and as does cover the most important muscle groups with compound exercises.

What part of SS worls triceps?

Because he can't. You're asking him to explain why a barbell-centric routine composed of compound lifts and designed to facilitate rapid linear progression is "shit" for a beginner whose goal is strength gain, i.e., you're asking for the impossible.
Quads, triceps, lats, shoulders, and chest are all bigger. Obviously not Piana huge, but on track for a few months of strength work at a caloric surplus. People see the love handles and get tricked into thinking all that happened was fat gain. That clearly isn't the case. Cutting gradually while continuing to lift would highlight his gains and he would look better than where he started from.

You don't deadlift. You don't belong here and don't deserve posting privileges.

That picture is lacking a ton of info. We don't even know how long he's done this program. And who cares what he looks like, the point of SS is strength training.

>"SS is dogshit, do these other routines instead"
>recommends routines designed by guys who like SS and respect Rippetoe
user, I...

It's piss poor for strength as well.

You'll completely stall in your upper body and all of your gains will be squat and deadlift related.

It's a piss poor program that does not care for strength. It's one that cares for getting bigger numbers in a handful of lifts.

Yeah.
I did SS.

You've never done SS, have you? I'm on month 3 and I've taken my bench from 125 lbs to 195 lbs 3x5. OHP is at 115. Impressive numbers? Of course not, but I'm stronger than I've ever been before in terms of upper body. You're talking out of your ass.

>Those lats and biceps and suspiscious shoulders

No you didn't.

> And then cut and he will look good

That's what everyone was responding to. No, he will not look good. He will look like shit because he did a shitty program and ate at way too high of a surplus.

What the fuck is lacking info about a picture? How the fuck can a picture even lack info. You are fucking retarded, you can see his body quite clearly. He went from ~12% to ~18% and made no significant progress whatsoever. But DYELs like you who want to defend the program they've been memed to do would have told him GOOD JOB BRO KEEP GOIN 8 MORE MONTHS OF BULKAN AND SQWATZ

Yes I did.
(what I didn't mention was that I also did TM, 5/3/1 and now PHAT) Of course my current body isn't from SS alone. No routine will have you looking anywhere decent in 4-6 months which is how long SS should last max.

> I've been lifting for 3 months
> Let me teach you about lifting

>SS is shit! You'll look like shit!
>I did SS and here's how I look
>Y-you didn't d-do SS because y-you look too good!
Bahahahaha BTFO. Log off your mom's computer for the day, kiddo. You're done.

No. That's not what I said. user said SS is shit for upper body strength and you'll stall right away. I'm calling bullshit on that because I'm actually doing SS and making good progress on my press and bench. If you don't have an actual argument, sit down. Your snide pretention doesn't change the numbers on my lifting spreadsheet.

The accessories

Lying disingenuous faggot.
Get the fuck out.

Bench and the Press®

You're advocating one routine over another even though you don't know any other routines. Why do you think your opinion carries any weight?

I've upped bench 60lbs in three month on PPL and was weaker then you at the start. So PPL is better.

Sorry but i dont want to ruin my back

I squats

SEETHING

No, I'm making a very specific claim: the user who said "SS is shit for upper body strength because you'll stall right away" is wrong. That's my claim. I'm not talking about other routines or claiming one routine is better or the best. I'm saying that specific user is fucking wrong about the specific thing he said, because my experience contradicts his hot opinion. That's the claim. Use your brain to read my words and understand them.

>I made less strength gains than you in the same period of time so my routine is better
Holy fucking shit dude. You realize 60 lbs increase is less than 70 lbs increase, right? 195-125=70. And apparently my bench is higher than yours, so LOL.

>deadlift ruins your back
These are the people giving advice on Veeky Forums. Fuck off.

Its been proven, lad

daily reminder that these are the people who give you advice at Veeky Forums

Germanics need to be exterminate

Proper form won't do any bad but catback would.

this is the type of people giving you advice
some nooble 3 month lifter
lulz, stay Veeky Forums
seriously no wonder the poll showed that most people here have been lifting for less than 6 months
do people who have lifted for years just leave this site? is that what making it means?
now all we're left is an echo chamber of nublets that have been lifting for 3 months

>SEETHING
user, people have been shilling fucking SS for everything from weight loss to getting big arms to increasing your test levels.

It's snake oil selling faggotry. Like your dishonest as fuck post. If this thread was filled with absolute fucking noobs who didn't know any better you'd have gotten away with your scumbaggery.
But you were caught.
There is no seething here.
There is me calling you a dishonest disingenuous faggot. That's like calling a bird a bird and a fish a good swimmer.

Not at all, SS is good for like 4-6 months then it's shit

If you ever see someone shilling SS like they're getting paid for it, immediately assume they're dyel as fuck.

99% of the time you'd be right.

>Replying to yourself
Namefags deserve extermination.

Not an argument.

Doing any lift wrong is dangerous. You can fuck up your shoulders with 20 lb dumbbells if you're an idiot about it. Deadlift is greater for back health. I have lower lumbar scoliosis and a desk job, so chronic back pain was my life. That pain is completely gone now after I started deadlifting.

>anons say stuff, so SS doesn't make you stronger and you can't look good after bulking then cutting
Oh fuck off you butthurt little fairy. I'm not even the guy who posted body.

I'm confused. user 1 said you can't get stronger upper body doing SS. user 2 said he got stronger by doing it and posted his numbers. Now you're mad at user 2 because he's a novice? Who the fuck else do you expect to do a novice routine? What's your problem?

Ws4b

dyel here. 6 months of SS and the only thing that saw decent progression was my squat, and my hips are narrow so my thighs are already looking comical. My gf took a candid pic of me while I was changing a light bulb naked and my ass and thighs looked fucking bulbous compared to my rail thin upper body. SS is not kind when you have arms like twigs I can tell you that. I'm 5'9 150 and I have a big jiggly ass like an obese football player, while my tiny arms are still smaller than my gf's, who's 5'3 130. Fuck SS.

Never going to make it

kinda

>anyone that doesn't do SS is a brosplits
>you skinny twinks just wait!!!! Once i cut im gonna look like Zizz brah!!

Hey, maybe read the section of the book that talks about accessories. Or read the part about adding a fourth set of 8 reps to increase volume. DYER?

Bro splits vs SS

4archive.org/board/fit/thread/30146641

>As long as you eat right and work out you'll probably just end up the same

The guy on the right looks like a giant from attack on titan for fucks sake

As a recent beginner I just wanted to share my experience. I wanted to lose weight and knew it'd be best to try some sort of weightlifting program to try conserve muscle, or at least get in the habit so when I get down to my goal weight I'll have knowledge of some basic lifts and won't be a complete newbie. SS is widely recommended so I looked into it, watched some videos, read FAQs, and also learned about many people's complaints with it.

So far I am pretty happy with it for a couple of reasons. It's dead simple, the hardest thing is squat form so far but otherwise it's simple. That was a big problem I came across when looking for programs - loads of them said they were for beginners but had a lot of things that I didn't think I'd be capable for at my current size, or that would be very difficult to do in my gym (weights section is pretty shit). Starting Strength is a great solution and while I'm doing it, I can research the next program I'll do in a month or two, and the various techniques involved.

No fucking way am I eating 6500 calories like Rip recommends though.

SS worked great for me for abput 9 months. I had fucked around for years lifting but never really putting on mass. Looking back I didn't know what i was doing and did all the stupid bro lifts. On ss my body actually changed and I started feeling strong. Others noticed too and i got complimented. Had to switch to a different program after a while though.

yo wtf, mad mirin, my dream goal right there

So 9-12 months is a good time to switch to an intermediate routine?

9 months is a long time. 3-6 months is more common. It depends entirely on how far your linear progression can continue. Some people plateau faster than others.

>Do SS until you cant progress
>move on to a PHUL or PPL
>Look good
if you think you're going to look amazing after doing SS you deserve to look like shit for being a dumb ass.

If you believe this retard who tells you that you need to do SS before you do anything else then you're a fucking dumbass

>fix'd.

I'm not saying you have to, but I think most people would be served better by starting with SS or SL or a similar full body routine GSLP anything.

Starting with a brosplit or PPL is retarded if you're a DYEL

Why?

>It's piss poor for strength as well
1, we are talking about people who cant lift the bar
2. It's supposed to make you gain strength and weight.
3/ you dont run the fucking program forever. You stop when you cnat progress on the big lifts then move one

if you dont like it say you dont like it. Calling it s shit routine for begginers is stupid. Because it's not

Because you will progress much faster as a beginner on a full body routine.

not him, but Imo getting a strong base will make using a ppl or similar split later on much more useful, along with using your time much more efficiently.

How did you get so shredded??

>trains like a lineman, expects to look like a runningback

You can progress as a beginner on basically any program. And faster in what way? Higher numbers in the squat and deadlift

You won't have the work capacity to do anything with it. So you'll just be playing catch up.

You did SS+Testc+Tren

>before cut
>after cut
You look like a lumpy pile of shit after ss, but you can add a lot of muscle mass. That's the whole point of ss. To use noob gainz to grow a 'shit ton' in a year or so

you should stop posting on here, at least in the advice giving capacity.

>To use noob gainz to grow a 'shit ton' in a year or so

You know noob gainz still happen when you're cutting right?

i dunno if i believe your height 177 @62.5kgs thats aushwitz, and you dont look like that, or you have 0 leg development

t-thanks

>calculate TDEE
>eat at a 500 deficit in the beginning and then 200-300 by the end of it

discipline and a couple of loose screws in the head made me get there
now I'm bulking on a low surplus and would like to reach bearmode but dont think its possible natty

if you're still a novice. I assumed you were talking about bulking while starting ss

Elaborate.
There's no one left to parrot and no well worn bullshit canned answers to use anymore.

Prove me wrong with your experience and knowledge.

at what point of ss did you start cutting though? What?

>Muh work capacity
I think I argued with you about this same shit like a week ago. You gotta let go of this dumb PPL=work capacity shit. Needing tons of volume is an intermediate thing. Novices need linear progression, and putting more weight on the bar every single work out is taxing enough as it is. It requires a lot of calories and a lot of rest and recovery. Somebody trying to add weight every single session while blasting as much volume as possible will burnout fast, causing premature plateaus. SS is bare bones and a full body 3x a week routine because that facilitates the recovery periods necessary to drive linear progression for as long as possible. Once you tap out that linear potential, you're no longer a novice and increasing volume will become the next stage of your fitness journey. PPL is great for intermediate. It's sub optimal for novices.

It is though, my legs used to be bigger but at one point I took squats off deadlift day( I know, blasphemy!)

once I realized I was a fat fuck and my squat was hitting advanced levels
basically used strength standards or whatever it was called, site is dead now and symmetricstrength is the same shit anyways and it said I was past intermediate up close to advanced so I figured out it was time to cut

>Still advocating the biggest meme routine
>Not taking the PPL pill

I'm a different user.

In my EXPERIENCE an absolute novice can still progress while cutting especially with bw accessories like chins. My friend encountered the same thing since he's a fatass. The point where it gets too difficult to put weight on the bar comes faster if the person is trying to lose weight while cutting but getting leaner has direct and immediate health gains to someone that isn't a skeleton.

I think it's absolutely fine for a beginner to stall early if they're losing weight because there'll be less of a chance of them continuing to use their awful beginner form with too much weight. But hey, I think putting more weight on the bar is less important than getting leaner, improving form safely and most importantly getting into the habit of going to the gym regularly.

I don't think a novice can spin their wheels uselessly because just making fitness part of their life is the most transformative aspect

> (You)
aight yeah that's what I figured. Cool :)

no. you'll actually look like a skinny faggot after a good correct cut but when you bulk AGAIN you will put on your muscle back without putting on the fat.

user, new lifters do not need to get as strong as possible in as short of a time as possible.
They do not need to put as much weight on the bar as they possibly can as fast as possible while doing like three fucking movements.
It serves no purpose what so ever.
New lifters need the volume and the weight.
The volume will help them remember the movements and allow them to do more work and do more varied lifts.

It will also help them build MUCH NEEDED work capacity and joint integrity that has far far more crossover into the real world and every single sport and athletic endeavor you can name.

That's just how it is.

It makes sense if someone wants to only have high volume on the largest muscles in their body to quickly put on weight for the sake of being heavy.

the goal body of ss

again, before a cut

user, strength training alone is piss poor for putting on mass.
It always has been.
High rep moderate weight is where the meat is. Okay?
SS is for already athletic and active and relatively strong teen boys not for your average jack and jill off.

>That upper body mass
>Goal of SS
user....

>user, new lifters do not need to get as strong as possible in as short of a time as possible.
You're not in charge of other people's goals. Come on down off that high horse.

Here's the problem.

You're confused. You're using "volume" and "reps" interchangeably. They're not the same thing. You're confusion leads you to say stupid shit like
>New lifters need the volume and the weight
Which really says
>New lifters need the [weight x reps] and the weight

First, you get plenty of reps with SS. My bench warm up, for instance, goes
2x5 bar
1x5 50% work set weight
1x3 70%
1x2 90%
3x5 work sets
That's 35 reps per session, plenty for ingraining the movement pattern and learning technique.

Second, since Volume = Weight x Reps, you should understand why being strong is conducive to achieving high volume. It's a lot easier to achieve X amount of total weight across your sets (volume) by lifting heavy weight instead of light weight. You keep saying novices need high reps per set. That's total shit for building strength. Can you get stronger doing 12-15 rep sets? Sure. But enjoy adding 20 lbs to your bench in 6 months. There's no reason on Earth why a rank novice needs to waste that much time in the gym. If you want to do lots of volume, get strong. If your want to get strong as a novice, do SS or a comparable program.

>You keep saying novices need high reps per set. That's total shit for building strength. Can you get stronger doing 12-15 rep sets? Sure. But enjoy adding 20 lbs to your bench in 6 months.

No one fucking cares about building as much strength as fast as possible.
Without basic strength endurance and even moderate work capacity, t's a fucking parlor trick with little carry over.

And if you have worked out for any length of time you'd realize that peak strength =/= greater work capacity.

If that were true then people with 400lbs bench presses would be able to do infinite pushups.

Neither are you. So stop lying to people about SS and it's importance when it comes to basic fitness or trying to steer their fucking goals towards doing like three fucking lifts and telling them that this is what they need to do no matter their fucking goal.

it's bullshit.
It's why you people were kicked out of every fucking corner of the net that had anything to do with fitness.

.
>No one fucking cares about building as much strength as fast as possible.
Look, I'm 30 years old. I care about whether I'm wasting my time or not. Maybe if you're 16, you don't mind fucking around with babby weight for a few years. I mind.
>Without basic strength endurance and even moderate work capacity, t's a fucking parlor trick with little carry over.
So being strong is a parlor trick? Lmao. DYEL?
>And if you have worked out for any length of time you'd realize that peak strength =/= greater work capacity.
Here's what I realized after lifting heavy: my heavy work sets drive up my light work sets. This is the appeal of PHUL and why I'm doing that now that I'm done with SS. If the most you can do is 135 on bench, 135 is hard. If the most you can do on bench is 225, 135 is an easy warm up. Anybody who lifts knows this. Are you an alien?

And SS is more than 3 lifts, so anybody reading your posts sees right away that you're just an uninformed retard.

>Look, I'm 30 years old. I care about whether I'm wasting my time or not. Maybe if you're 16, you don't mind fucking around with babby weight for a few years. I mind.

Dude
Fuck you
No one gives a fuck about what YOU WANT IN PARTICULAR BITCH

This is about what is optimal and healthy and sustainable for complete fucking noobs.
Not for fuckwads like you looking for a quick ego boost.
Understand little buddy?

Moderate weight, high rep, varied lifts, over a long period of time.
Sustainable, safe, effective, will teach them how to do lifts, can be done forever.
It's not some dickaround 3month bullshit for fucking weakling losers who need their hand held for a litlte while.

Holy cow. You should go outside. You're really mad.

Fitness is goal oriented, not about absolutes. Whether SS is a good idea is entirely dependent on somebody's goals, not on your idiosyncratic theory about what is best for everyone everywhere. If a novice wants to get strong fast, it's hard to recommend a better program than SS. PPL certainly isn't a contender. I did both as a novice. Only one have me appreciable results in a reasonable amount of time. SS prepared me for PHUL. It fit my goals.

Relax. You're not the fitness police and your knowledge about the sport has some worrying deficiencies. Suggesting SS is dangerous is just laughable, mom science tier.

no nigga. it's just for your legs.

The Boo saga was total horseshit.

Cell was an infinitely more interesting character. Boo was just evil for evil's sake, no rhyme or reason. Cell wasn't necessarily evil, just a chaotic perfectionist.

hey user, I'm on SL(which according to Veeky Forums is just as good a choice as SS) and I'm approaching the end of the routine. Would you recommend jumping to the Texas Method or one of the other routines you're doing/have done?

My gains are kinda weird because I'm trying to lose weight (220 to 200 so far, aiming for 175). main lifts I'm 3/2.5/1.5/0.75 on the path to 4/3/2/1.