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/mesand/ - Mesoamerican/Andean Civilizations General
Eli King
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Levi Smith
I'd kill for a total war game focused solely on North, Central, and south American civs at their height, the Mound builder giants are so interesting.
Juan Butler
I might be seeing coincidence here, but so many of the North American Natives remind me of Irish gaels, their weapons, fashion, writing, mounds, everything. It gives me the creeps. Then again the Spanish and others did claim there were mixed race Native-Gael hybrids splashed around the place.
Camden Stewart
Latest News:
telesurtv.net
'Ancient Mexican City Rivals Manhattan Metropolis': Researchers
>Beneath the jungles of western Mexico lie the sprawling ruins of what archaeologists are calling the "new old city" of Angamuco.
>Laser mappings have revealed the ruins of an ancient city occupied by Aztec enemies the Purepechas, with 40,000 structures discovered in just 26 square kilometers, the equivalent of 16th-century Manhattan.
>Beneath the jungles of western Mexico, just outside of the city Morelia and buried beneath meters of volcanic rock, lie the vast ruins of what archaeologists are calling the "new old city" of Angamuco.
>Using a combination of Lidar laser scanning, GPS data and research, scientists were able to create a three-dimensional map of western Mexico and scour beneath the foliage to find the buried ruins.
>Researchers say the metropolis was populated by lesser-known group the Purepechas, one of the major ethnic groups in Mesoamerican civilization who withstood Aztec attacks to survive until the early 19 century.
>"To think that this massive city existed in the heartland of Mexico for all this time and nobody knew it was there is kind of amazing," Colorado State University Archaeologist Chris Fisher told the Guardian.
>Scientists say Angamuco is twice the size of the group's imperial capital, Tzintzuntzan, at the edge of Lake Patzcuaro. According to their findings, the city was distinct in that it had open squares and pyramids along its perimeter rather than at its center, a departure from Mesoamerican customs.
>Among the artifacts uncovered are ceramic fragments which date back as far as 900 AD, some of which support the theory that the Indigenous group underwent two waves of civil development and one collapse prior to the Spanish invasion.
Landon Ramirez
turkeytelegraph.com
Angamuco, the Millenary city in Mexico with as many buildings as Manhattan
>The secrets of Angamuco have taken centuries to be revealed. The treasures of Millenary city of Purépecha, enemies of Aztec empire, had been buried by passage of time in western Mexico and unearthing m had represented a titanic task with traditional archaeological techniques. But a revolutionary procedure has been a ray of light and hope for researchers. The laser mapping, which allowed this Monday discovery of a Mayan city in Guatemala with 60,000 buildings, has now revealed that Angamuco had 40,000 buildings, as many as Manhattan and on just a surface of 26 square kilometers.
>Although city was discovered in 2007, traditional techniques for Mapearla and terrain conditions did not allow rapid progress in investigation. It was in 2011 when archaeologists began to use Lidar technique. Seven years later, investigation has been fruitful. "This technology is transforming archaeology, re are 30 or ruins in Mesoamerica that are being analyzed and that we can learn more about with se techniques," says Fisher, who has a similar project in remote region of Mosquitia, Honduras. The investigator waits eagerly to put boots on ground and to keep revealing secrets of Angamuco. About 7,000 archaeological objects have already been verified in excavations that have covered four kilometres of new archaeological universe of Purépecha.
William Morris
npr.org
The Oscar For Best Snack Goes To ... Popcorn, The 6,000-Year-Old Aztec Gold
>Popcorn is truly ancient. Archaeologists have uncovered popcorn kernels that are 4,000 years old. They were so well-preserved, they could still pop. In 2012, scientists discovered popcorn cobs that were grown even earlier — more than 6,000 years ago.
>Dolores Piperno, a paleobotanist with the Smithsonian's Tropical Research Insitute, says corn, and specifically popcorn, helped lay the foundations for the Aztec empire.
>"When you have a very highly productive crop like corn, that makes the rise of high civilizations possible," she says.
>Piperno grows the wild, great-grandaddy of modern corn — a weird grain called teosinte. It has just a few kernels on each stalk, and they're too hard to eat or to grind into flour. But teosinte has a special property that almost makes up for these shortcomings: It can pop.
>"All early corns were popcorns," Piperno says. "They were around for millennia before these other forms of corn."
>After a couple of thousand years, the Mesoamericans managed to cultivate varieties of corn that were good for flour, but they still ate popcorn. The Aztec language even has a word for the sound of many kernels popping at once — totopoca.
>After the Spanish invaded, popcorn spread around the world, and soon people began to figure out how popcorn actually works.
>It turns out that rock-hard kernel — the thing that makes teosinte and popcorn impossible to eat raw — is the key.
>"It acts as a pressure cooker," says David Jackson, a food scientist at the University of Nebraska. He says the durable kernel keeps water and starch sealed inside. When a kernel is heated, the starch liquefies and the pressure builds until the seed coat breaks.
>Now there's something to think about next time you're stuck watching a bad movie.
Kevin Hernandez
smithsonianmag.com
White Settlers Buried the Truth About the Midwest’s Mysterious Mound Cities
>Around 1100 or 1200 A.D., the largest city north of Mexico was Cahokia, sitting in what is now southern Illinois, across the Mississippi River from St. Louis. Built around 1050 A.D. and occupied through 1400 A.D., Cahokia had a peak population of between 25,000 and 50,000 people. Now a UNESCO World Heritage Site, Cahokia was composed of three boroughs (Cahokia, East St. Louis, and St. Louis) connected to each other via waterways and walking trails that extended across the Mississippi River floodplain for some 20 square km. Its population consisted of agriculturalists who grew large amounts of maize, and craft specialists who made beautiful pots, shell jewelry, arrow-points, and flint clay figurines.
>During the last 100 years, extensive archaeological research has changed our understanding of the mounds. They are no longer viewed as isolated monuments created by a mysterious race. Instead, the mounds of North America have been proven to be constructions by Native American peoples for a variety of purposes. Today, some tribes, like the Mississippi Band of Choctaw, view these mounds as central places tying their communities to their ancestral lands. Similar to other ancient cities throughout the world, Native North Americans venerate their ties to history through the places they built.
Jace Butler
dailymail.co.uk
Thousand-year-old 'lost' pyramid city uncovered in the heart of Mexico using lasers had as many buildings as modern Manhattan
>Remains of ancient 'pyramid city' as densely built up as Manhattan have been discovered in the heart of Mexico, thanks to pioneering imaging techniques.
>Experts used lasers to send beams of light from an aircraft to the ground below, measuring the reflected pulses to build up a map of the region.
>They discovered a lost pyramid city known as Angamuco built by the Purépecha, rivals to the Aztecs, around 1,000 years ago.
>The discovery was made by a team of researchers, including Colorado State University (CSU), about a half an hour’s drive from Morelia, in the central Mexican state of Michoacán.
>'To think that this massive city existed in the heartland of Mexico for all this time and nobody knew it was there is kind of amazing,' said Chris Fisher, professor of anthropology at CSU who made the admission of missing the finding on foot.
>Traditional methods of on-the-ground archaeological surveys would take 20 years to assemble as much data as two days using the laser-based technique, known as Lidar ranging, according to experts.
>A particular benefit of the technology is its ability to penetrate through vegetation, which is dense in many of the forest areas being surveyed.
>Seeing the results, one of the team realised he had walked within 30 feet (10 m) of one of the largest pyramids on the Angamuco site without realising it, due to the thick undergrowth.
'If you do the maths, all of a sudden you are talking about 40,000 building foundations up there, which is [about] the same number of building foundations that are on the island of Manhattan.'
>The survey is the first part of the Pacunam Lidar Initiative that will eventually map more than 5,000 square miles (14,000 sq km) of Guatemala.
Owen Garcia
businessinsider.com
Researchers have found signs of ritual violence on skeletons from an ancient civilization in the Andes
>Skeletal remains uncovered from a ritual platform in the Peruvian highlands at the site now known as Pacopampa show that people buried there suffered violent injuries, likely as part of ceremonial rituals, according to an archaeological study published earlier this month.
>The scientists behind the discovery wrote that it looks like individuals suffered ceremonial blows to the head that fractured their skulls — perhaps willingly — though those blows likely didn't kill them.
>"Given the archaeological context (the remains were recovered from sites of ceremonial practices), as well as the equal distribution of trauma among both sexes and a lack of defensive architecture, it is plausible that rituals, rather than organized warfare or raids, caused most of the exhibited trauma," the authors wrote.
>The question that remains is why.
>One of the ways that present-day archaeologists try to understand ancient cultures is by looking for signs of violence. Knowing how people were injured or killed reveals conflict with other societies as well as religious and societal behavior.
>Researchers have been able to learn much about the early civilizations that populated the Andes by studying the violence that occurred there.
>Ritual violence did include human sacrifice in later eras, so researchers wrote the the ritual violence here may reflect the emergence of a hierarchical society. In the early stages, ritual violence associated with the dominance of elites resulted in injury that grew more intense as time went on and that hierarchy was more clearly defined — eventually reaching the point where such rituals ended in death.
Daniel Peterson
laht.com
Peru Recovers 500 Archeological and Art Pieces from Argentina, US, Mexico, UK
>Peruvian authorities presented on Friday close to 500 archeological and art pieces recovered in the last few months from Argentina, the United States, Mexico and the United Kingdom, where they were being kept in private collections or were circulating on the black market.
>Some of the pieces include colonial-era paintings depicting Biblical scenes such as the sacrifices of Cain and Abel and The Deluge, which were removed from the Andean town of Hualahoyo.
>The paintings were voluntarily handed over to the Peruvian consulate in New York by Tracey Willfong, who was in possession of the pieces.
>Many archeological objects belonging to different pre-Columbian civilizations from Ancient Peru, including the Inca, Nazca, Sican and Sipan cultures, were also recovered.
>The pieces were retrieved thanks to arrangements made by the Peruvian diplomatic missions in the four countries.
>During the presentation of the objects, Culture Minister Alejandro Neyra put emphasis on a group of archeological pieces that were removed from the Inca citadel of Machu Picchu and returned to Peruvian authorities by Yale University.
Mason Miller
sciencenews.org
Elongated heads were a mark of elite status in an ancient Peruvian society
>Bigwigs in a more than 600-year-old South American population were easy to spot. Their artificially elongated, teardrop-shaped heads screamed prestige, a new study finds.
>During the 300 years before the Incas’ arrival in 1450, intentional head shaping among prominent members of the Collagua ethnic community in Peru increasingly centered on a stretched-out look, says bioarchaeologist Matthew Velasco of Cornell University. Having long, narrow noggins cemented bonds among members of a power elite — a unity that may have helped pave a relatively peaceful incorporation into the Incan Empire, Velasco proposes in the February Current Anthropology.
> “Increasingly uniform head shapes may have encouraged a collective identity and political unity among Collagua elites,” Velasco says. These Collagua leaders may have negotiated ways to coexist with the encroaching Inca rather than fight them, he speculates. But the fate of the Collaguas and a neighboring population, the Cavanas, remains hazy. Those populations lived during a conflict-ridden time — after the collapse of two major Andean societies around 1100 (SN: 8/1/09, p. 16) and before the expansion of the Inca Empire starting in the 15th century.
>In contrast, among 114 skulls from elite burial sites in the late pre-Inca period, dating to between 1300 and 1450, 84 — or about 74 percent — displayed altered shapes. A large majority of those modified skulls — about 64 percent — were sharply elongated. Shortly before the Incas’ arrival, prominent Collaguas embraced an elongated style as their preferred head shape, Velasco says. No skeletal evidence has been found to determine whether low-ranking individuals also adopted elongated skulls as a signature look in the late pre-Inca period.
Angel Rogers
glacierhub.org
Ice-core Evidence of Copper Smelting 2700 Years Ago
>The mysterious Moche civilization originated on the northern coast of Peru in 200-800 AD. It was known for its metal work, considered by some to be the most accomplished of any Andean civilization. But were the Moche the first Andean culture to originate copper smelting in South America?
>While the Moche left comprehensive archaeological evidence of an early sophisticated use of copper, the onset of copper metallurgy is still debated. Some peat-bog records (records of spongy decomposing vegetation) from southern South America demonstrate that copper smelting occurred earlier, around 2000 BC.
>The question motivated Anja Eichler et al. to launch a massive study of copper emission history. The details of the findings were subsequently published in a paper in Nature. Eichler, an analytical chemistry scientist at the Paul Scherrer Institute in Switzerland, and her team presented a 6500-year copper emission history for the Andean Altiplano based on glacier ice-core records. This is a new methodology applied to trace copper smelting.
>“Copper is often referred to as the ‘backbone of Andean metallurgy – the mother of all Andean metals,’” Eichler explained to GlacierHub. “However, in contrast to the early copper metallurgy in the Middle East and Europe, very little information existed about its onset in the Andes.”
>The two major sources of copper in the atmosphere— and hence in ice cores from glaciers, where the atmosphere deposits copper compounds— are smelting activities and natural mineral dust. The contribution of Eichler and her team has been to distinguish these and document the creativity of early cultures who developed means to smelt copper.
Julian Adams
sciencedaily.com
Remains of early, permanent human settlement in Andes discovered
>Using five different scientific approaches, a team including University of Wyoming researchers has given considerable support to the idea that humans lived year-round in the Andean highlands of South America over 7,000 years ago.
>Examining human remains and other archaeological evidence from a site at nearly 12,500 feet above sea level in Peru, the scientists show that intrepid hunter-gatherers -- men, women and children -- managed to survive at high elevation before the advent of agriculture, in spite of lack of oxygen, frigid temperatures and exposure to elements.
>"This gives us a very strong baseline to help understand the rates of cultural and genetic change in the Andean highlands, a region known for the domestication of alpaca, potatoes and other plants; emergence of state-level political and economic complexity; and rapid human adaptation to high-elevation life," says Randy Haas, a postdoctoral research associate in the University of Wyoming's Department of Anthropology and the team's leader.
>"These results constitute the strongest evidence to date that people were living year-round in the Andean highlands at least 7,000 years ago," Haas says. "Such high-elevation environments were among the last frontiers of human colonization, and this knowledge holds implications for understanding rates of genetic, physiological and cultural adaption in the human species."
John Foster
>While Christopher Columbus is generally credited with having "discovered" America in 1492, a 1521 Spanish report provides inklings of evidence that there were, in fact, Irish people settled in America prior to Columbus’ journey.
>“Researchers feel certain that there was a colony of Irish folk living in what is now South Carolina when Christopher Columbus 'thought' he had discovered the New World,” writes Richard Thornton for The Examiner.
>In 1520, Peter Martyr d'Anghiera, a historian, and a professor was appointed by Charles V, ruler of the Holy Roman Empire from 1519, to be chronicler for the new Council of the Indies.
>Though Martyr died in 1526, his report, founded on several weeks of interviews, was published posthumously in a book named "De Orbe Novo" (About the New World). The book has been published and translated numerous times in the centuries since then. The passages concerning the land that would become Georgia and the Carolinas were always included, but generally ignored, says Thornton.
>While interviewing Spanish colonists, Martyr took note of their vicious treatment of Chicora Indians. However, he also included in his report that the Spanish colonists had a very good relationship with another nearby colony, which Martyr reported to be named Duhare.
>Physically, the people of Duhare appeared to be European according to the Spanish colonists in the area. The people of Duhare had red to brown hair, tan skin and gray eyes, and were noticeably taller than the Spanish. According to Spanish accounts, the people of Duhare were Caucasian, though their houses and pottery were similar to those of American Indians.
>While there is overwhelming evidence of Irish influence in what is now the area of South Carolina and Georgia, Thornton himself is careful to note that until solid DNA evidence is produced, it is hard to definitively link pre-Columbus America with Ireland.
Xavier Jackson
This shit can't be a coincince, while no concrete evidence of yet, the Vikings, Spanish and others have mentioned Natives with Gaelic customs, or leaders resembling then Celtic Irish. Could just be exaggerations and comparisons, but I'd believe it.
John Carter
>The following list is sometimes used to reinforce the cultural diffusion theory about cross-Atlantic contact being much more varied than ‘traditionally’ believed.
>According to one tradition, there was an Irish monk by the name of Brendan [sp?] who lived sometime during the ‘dark ages’ of Europe [around the 700s A.D./C.E.?] and who allegedly sailed west to a new world. According to my best recollection at this moment in time [and hour of night], the story alleges that Brendan and a couple other monks sailed due west from Ireland in an open curach [a traditional round Irish boat usually now called a coracle]. In this tradition, after a time [a year? A few years?] he returned to Ireland where he talked of another land with different people in it and then he gathered more materials to take back with him. He set off to the west again and was never heard from.
>Without more ado, the list of terms sharing striking similarities for two languages unrelated in linguistic families and supposedly not sharing any contact with each other. The question is how easy is it to develop similar pronunciations and meanings for similar concepts in two diverse languages if there ISN’T any interaction? Also, keep in mind that names change in fashion frequently, but place names and descriptors don’t. That is why we talk about the Rock of Gibraltar, and in the time of Brendan it earned the name Gibral al-Tariq [Arabic for Tariq’s Mountain, named after an invading general into Spain]. Two different languages that have a similar pronunciation of a similar name for the same mountain.
Chase Clark
WE
Luis Barnes
Good thread. Can somebody post links to real authentic pre-Colombian dance from Mesoamerica? None of that modern danza azteca shit
Parker Baker
Emplumados from Cacaopera of the Kakawira (note they still use cape though tiny)
youtube.com
Concheros. This originated shortly after the Spanish conquest. It is not to be confused with the Azteca danzantes that is a split off from the Concheros. Those emerged in the 20th century and got big among chicanos in the 70s. While concheros have a much earlier history.
>The dance emerged shortly after the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire. It is based on the old “mitote” dance, but modified to include Catholic symbolism as a means of preserving ancient ritual.[3][4] While the Spanish tried to eliminate as much indigenous culture as possible, total eradication was not possible. In the case of dance, that which could not be suppressed was adapted to Christianity to facilitate the evangelization process. Early dances often had a pre Hispanic idol buried or otherwise hidden.
youtube.com
Danza de Quetzal
From Puebla and part of Veracruz performed by Nahuas and Totonacs. Originally it was a dance to the sun (hence the headdress).
youtube.com
Voladores from Papantla. This dance was once very widespread, from West Mexico to Nicaragua. They are called "Bird Men".
youtube.com
Rabinal Achi. The Rabinal Achí is a Maya theatrical play written in the K'iche' language[1] and performed annually in Rabinal, Baja Verapaz, Guatemala. Its original name is Xajoj Tun, meaning "Dance of the Trumpet".[2] This is one of the few surviving performance pieces from before colonization. The plot of the Rabinal Achí is that of a real conflict that took place between the Rabinaleb and the K'iche' people.
youtube.com
Jonathan Myers
Very nice, thank you. You seem to know your way around dances. Could you touch base of the Mesoamerican roots of the dances of my family’s town? I’ll list them for you
>Ticuanes (might not be the correct spelling), basically a dance where there’s some dancers who dress to cover themselves and wear paper streamers, and also dance with dried up animals such as iguanas or raccoons with strings attached for handles. Later, there’s a part where a hunter and his dog (dressed up man) track down a man playing a jaguar.
Dylan Gutierrez
They’re from a town in Southwest Puebla if that helps
Jeremiah Roberts
Hmm, not familiar with this one but the word has a Nahuatl origin which means animal that eats I believe. And usually associated with jaguars.
Looking into it, it appears to originate from Acatlan de Osorio which used to be a Mixtec town, under Aztec dominance. The town was destroyed in an earthquake and the modern one rebuilt in the 1700s. This document might help (it's in spanish):
academia.edu
Daniel Morales
Thank you. I’m starting see a connection here. My family’s town (named Huehuetlan el Chico, btw) is also in Puebla and has some history to it. Recently it’s own Lienzo has been discovered, iirc a Mixtec site was discovered nearby, a local church as a pre-Columbian artifact (sort of like a boulder) which I haven’t seen yet, and the town is also part of La Mixteca region.
>btw can you shed some light on the pre-Columbian origins of the Chinelos dance. It comes from the nearby state of Morelos and all I know that’s pre-Colombian about it is the name which has Nahuatl origins and means disguised.
Alexander Phillips
Give me the money, I code it.
Carson Long
Would you do a age of empires mod focused on the same thing?
Blake Mitchell
>age of empires
Don't know this, I use Unity.
Matthew Wright
>The Spaniards made a great distinction in the categories of people that only those of royalty could join in their great festivals. They did not let their workers join. The Spaniards used great clothes exaggerating in jewelry and very fine clothes. The workers decided to do the same only doing it in a somewhat mocking way. They covered their faces with masks so that their bosses did not recognise them and started to dance imitating the Spaniards. Every year in different places of several states, the carnaval and Chinelos with their different styles, give life to this character to brighten up the environment. When the Chinelo jumps to the beat of the drum and the trumpets, it is to make a mockery of the Spaniards. There is a Chinelo Museum in Tepoztlán.
>According to the House of Culture of Tlayacapan, it was in 1807 that a group of young natives, tired of being excluded from the Carnaval parties, organised a gang, disguised themselves in old clothes and covering their faces with a handkerchief (or piece of blanket) began to scream, to whistle and to jump (dance) through the streets of the town, making fun of the Spaniards. This improvisation was very successful, they laughed and talked a lot about it, so much so that the following year it was organised again. This is how the character of the "huehuetzin", Nahuatl word meaning "person who dresses in old clothes" took shape (some Chinelos still use this word to call each other). Year after year, as it became more popular, the party ritualised and the character gradually evolved. To represent the Spaniards they added beards to the masks.
>Several years later, in the same Tlahuica micro-region, cultural practitioners in the neighbouring village of Tepoztlan also took up the Chinelo dance, and made it quite famous by including it in their annual town festtival honoring Ce Acatl Tepiltzin Quetzalcoatl, a Meso-American historic and mythic figure, on 8 September.
Henry Johnson
Hey Veeky Forums what are some good sources on Precolumbian Otomi, Matlazinca and Tlahuica civilizations? Also is it possible Otomies built Teotihuacan?
Cooper White
vallartadaily.com
Thoughts? Personally looking at Aztec sun myths Teohuacan makes more sense.
Aiden Davis
I heard about this like a month ago, I don't into nahuatl enough to have an opinion on it. Still neat though
Charles Howard
What happened to the user posting all of that mesoamerican history in the last thread? Normally they're active now.
Mason Sullivan
I'm here (but about to go to bed): I finished the history posts in the first thread, and contuinued with the complexity comparsions in the second thread, but it 404'd before I could finish and I was getting shit for taking so long, so I decided I wouldn't continue in this one.
Maybe i'll finish the complexity comparsions on my own time and when I finish i'll just make another thread for it
Asher Jenkins
I'm curious about Precolumbian Andean and Mesoamerican cuisine. Any old recipes survive?
Jonathan Johnson
Was the recently discovered city bigger than Tenochtitlan?
Asher Cox
No, the estimates for that city which is not recently discovered just the scope of it btw, is estimated to hold a population of 100,000. That's about the same as Cholula. Tenochtitlan was 215,000-250,000 more or less.
Tyler Cooper
I mean, Andean cuisine at the traditional household level today is still pretty much the same as what it would have been in pre-conquest times, especially given how well-suited the foods that already existed pre-conquest were for Andean environments.
The biggest differences would be chicken and new types of pulses been consumed, but at least the former hasn't driven out the consumption of guinea pig.
Jeremiah Brown
What would have replaced chicken? Did they have anything like Papa a la Huancaína?
Zachary Taylor
>What would have replaced chicken?
Ah, to clarify, chicken has become a staple protein, but it hasn't stopped people from still consuming guinea pig. Just from a purely farming level economic perspective, I'd guess chicken and guinea pig require about the same effort to raise, but in different ways: chickens can be left to roam relatively free, but their relatively slower life cycle means that raising the same amount of meat is slower; conversely, guinea pigs are fast breeding rodents, but require more care when feeding and housing them.
>Did they have anything like Papa a la Huancaína?
Not really, given that the cheese and milk in the sauce wouldn't have been possible before European contact, nor would the usual lettuce, olives, and egg have been available. The recipe itself seems to have originated in the latter part of the 1800s.
Still, the most basic elements: yellow pepper paste on potatoes would have been feasible.
Grayson Morales
I'm finishing reading this, pretty cool.
Nicholas Edwards
Any sources/examples of pre-conquest Mesoamerican tattoos?
Jackson Ramirez
I drew a couple studies of examples. What region specifically?
Jaxson Carter
Do you have a source for Cholula being 100k? I've heard that claim as well but most of the time I see it listed at around 40-50k. I've seen similarly inconsisteices with Texcoco.
Is it a issue where the smaller values is only including the urban city center, and the larger ones are including the radius of suburban housing extending out from that; since that's how most Mesoamerican cities work?
I don't know anything off the top of my head, but I know of a few good sources on this, i'll try to find them.
In general though, a lot of Mexican cuisine has native roots. Corn tortillas were ubiquitous in precolumbian mesoamerica. Tamales and mole similarly has their roots their, etc. The main caveat being, of course, that cows aren't native to the region so beef wouldn't have been used. My understanding is they had less consumption of meats in general, though they did eat rabbit, polutry, deer, and domesticated dogs.
Adrian Thomas
Oh goody. Show all of them, I’m very interested.
James Ross
These are huastec. The black is tatttoo, although it may possibly be bodypaint too. It's unclear. Nevertheless, Huastecs were known for tattooing themselves. These are all dated to the Postclassic period, and come from anthropomorphic vessels.
Xavier Adams
Sorry wrong image
John Evans
Owen Morgan
Are their teeth sharpened?
Austin Nguyen
This ones based on a sculpture of a youth.
Dominic Jackson
Yes they sometimes blackened and filed their teeth.
Dominic Sullivan
And I have a new fetish...A vicious attack dog indian waifu.
Christian Moore
girl on the left....unf,
Ian Fisher
Hey! You’re the guy who writes that bat god comic! I love your work man! Keep it up and please, continue with the tattoo art!
Blake Perry
Did we just enter a golden age of history?
Can't wait to star prodding japan, eurasia and mesopotamia with this
Adam Wilson
>rivals to the Aztecs, around 1,000 years ago
Aztecs were only around since about 1380-1400 and that's being generous.
Christian Ross
Here's some examples of tattoos in other Mesoamerican peoples. This one is from the Classic Maya.
Thanks bro
Cooper Clark
Postclassic Colima figure.
Cameron Thomas
But when? Irish exlorer before the nords?
Imagine if all the partholonian / fir bolg myth was real ayy
We wuz nemedians n shit
Ayden Turner
Sorry that came out sideways. Backview
Jack Moore
Olmec figure with tattoo.
Eli Cook
Detail of facial tattoo.
Jayden Bell
Teotihuacan warrior with facial tattoo.
Carson Reyes
Last one. A Huastec from the Florentine Codex. I should note Aztecs looked down on tattoos. They viewed them as gaudy and degenerate. Hence why no examples. Some did use body paint sometimes though. Prostitutes and noblewomen used makeup too.
Liam Scott
Do you ever take commissions?
Nicholas Cruz
Yep, do you have one in mind?
I can drop an email if your serious.
Wyatt Kelly
Sure, where should I email?
Jordan Wood
I like how square and symmetrical their architecture and cities are.
Were these settlements perhaps more planned than Afro-Eurasian ones?
Chase Miller
Parker Ward
They typically built it according to the cardinal directions and their religion. Like Teotihuacan was designed so it's plaza can be flooded at certain times of the year to recreate the creation myth of the Primordial era. The directions buildings faced was also important. Outside the urban area, usually houses were more clustered into family compounds with gardens and orchards. And these houses too had a mini plaza as well. Space was regarded as sacred so things were not just built randomly.
Jace Harris
>Fish is FRESH
Juan Powell
Bump for cool Meso shit
Elijah Lewis
What's the deal with the different terms: Mochica, Moche, Sipan? Are they different Andean phases of a civ or different civs?
Eli Bennett
Mochica refers to Moche culture. (Andean, Andes)
Sipan, I don't know.
Brandon Sullivan
I would play this
Elijah Green
Already exists as an expansion for medieval 2
Grayson Wood
Mochica and Moche are used interchangeably, and mean the same thing (so not like Andean as a descriptor for the Andes). Sipan was just a Moche/Mochica site, one that seems important enough to have possibly been the centre of the Moche/Mochica culture, hence why you might read the odd source conflating Sipan with all of the Moche/Mochica.
Jeremiah Harris
Thanks that clears it up.
Juan Jones
Bump
Owen Turner
Thanks, I fired off an email.
Alexander Garcia
Where do I begin to learn about Mesoamerica?
Has anyone here ever visited these places? Do local people still keep ancient traditions, or did the C*tholics destroy it all?
I guess the people are pretty much the same as their ancestors racially speaking?
Landon Rodriguez
Got it thanks, just replied.
Jack Jenkins
Bump
William Phillips
I've sadly only been to the federal district of Mexico, although there's more than enough in that one area to research for lifetime (as many scholars have). I'm trying to get my non-archaeological work to send me to Mexico again, at which point I may try to pop over to Guatemala.
Anyone have any advice? I'm willing to trade advice about the Andes, as I plan to go back (work permitting, again) to Peru/Chile in December.