Are we witnessing the beginning of the end for age of liberal democracy?
Are we witnessing the beginning of the end for age of liberal democracy?
Oh, and I am not just talking about China.
It's not only that China proves it is possible to achieve economic prosperity through Capitalism without resorting to liberal democracy as your form of governance, but it also the emergence of a new form of illiberal democracy in places like Poland, Hungary, Russia, Israel, etc.
At the other end of the scale, there is also in the rise of technocratic post-democracies such as the EU, which are unquestionably liberal, and profoundly undemocratic.
Not anytime soon, no.
He will, at least, attempt to make one reform that is Rule of Law-ish, and that is removing influence of local government on courts of justice.
Maybe Xi will look to the long term and set up a constitution to carry out his general agenda long after he croaks. Despots, specially non-aristocratic ones, tend to have trouble conceiving of a state without them.
Taiwan is the most liberal version of China. Hong Kong and Machau are also liberal-lite, but don't seem to make much of a cultural dent on the PRC.
Oh, sorry, I thought this was another thread. I was talking about Xi's reforms and China opening up.
I think this hits it. Liberal democracy be showing its age, but illiberal democracies and liberal post-democracies are here to stay.
>Implying this is nothing but a swing of the pendulum.
Once those conservative/nationalist governments start to fuck up, it's back to liberalism again. Then vice versa.
Whilst I think it will be a test for liberal democracy, I believe China's rise will ultimately strengthen liberal democracy due to China's inevitable collapse.
The Chinese aren't naturally a servile people (an example of the amount of civil wars and overthrows that have occurred throughout China's history- even to this day, 180,000 mass protests and riots occur throughout the country) and an authoritarian government always has to give a good reason as to why it should be in power.
This might be through sheer nationalism or through economic growth, but honestly with the speed and pace China has grown, they have sacrificed a lot of the fundamental infrastructure in their legal and banking sectors that American and Europe have had centuries to do, and this will probably lead to some form of economic crisis.
Each generation of Chinese expects that they will have a better life than their elders and if the government fails to deliver that, then it's more or less likely that the people will see no reason as to why they should keep the CCP in power.
After Tienanmen, however, it's no longer feasible for the CCP to simply just clamp down on any kind of dissent; they know it will only lead to resistance from a large portion of the country who are expecting more and more civil liberties to be afforded to them.
This is the curse of the middle class, especially in the technological age. it's impossible to keep them isolated and to deprive them of liberties that they expect to have once they start amassing capital of their own.
tl;dr Chinese Authoritarianism will collapse and liberal democracy will only get stronger
Damn. I wonder how the guy who came up with the end of history meme is feeling.
You are functionally autistic if you think China has a despotic system
>seriously basing the idea that Liberal Democracy will come to China based on China's civil wars and overthrows.
The Chinese aren't a servile people, sure, but that doesn't mean they dislike the idea of a strong government considering how an orderly strong central government is an almost existential aspect of Chinese political thought
He already adjusted his predictions and gone full Hegelian.
I didn't say anything to the contrary. I just said the government has to be a GOOD one and I think the CCP and Xi are on a sinking ship.
>he thinks we're living in the age of conservative/nationalist governments
You're fucking retarded
>Each generation of Chinese expects that they will have a better life than their elders and if the government fails to deliver that, then it's more or less likely that the people will see no reason as to why they should keep the CCP in power.
Retard, every country expects that.
If the US/UK government fails to deliver, there will be riots and anarchy in the streets.>After Tiananmen, however, it's no longer feasible for the CCP to simply just clamp down on any kind of dissent
The problem is there was never ever any massacre at Tiananmen, only in Beijing.
Most of the students withdrew. Only CIA shills and their useful idiots stayed.
Hint: Throwing Molotuvs, shooting hunting rifles at armed troops and killing/burning their comrades is the easiest way to get shot
>the end of history meme is false meme
explain why the 90's-2010s feels like the same decade then. That's because history ended in the 90's.
And yes liberal democracy is the future a raghead blowing up a building did not change that, in fact it strengthened the end of history.
No it's just beginning. As people become more acclimated to the west and integrate, they lose their authoritarian, regressive ways and embrace individualism and classical liberalism.
Western civilization will ultimately win the battle of ideas.
I guess i can understand people still believing in the end of history even after 9/11 but anyone who still believes in it after the nu-cold war and the syrian civil war is a retard. You are a retard.
Being unnecessarily belligerent and spouting CIA conspiracy bullshit just shows how much of shill you are. How much did they deposit into your bank account for each post?
The expectations by the Chinese middle class are much more tense as their meteoric and breakneck pace in which they have grown is insanely unstable. You also have the added issue of massive demographic imbalance. There are A LOT more men in China then women and a huge horde of angry single men is never a good thing for a government.
You will also have a rise in class warfare due to the Hukou system stigmatizing country folk who are pouring into the cities to find work.
>orderly strong central government is an almost existential aspect of Chinese political thought
It is because of the over 5000 years of continued history meme.
A strong government leads to prosperous country.
Nomocracy leads to a fairer society with less grievances and resentment.
A weak government leads to divison and conflict.
And you are spewing outdated Nonsense from BBC/CNN.
Yes. Soon, Pu Yi shall rise from the dead, restore the Qing dynasty and slowly reclaim the empire's lost land in Outer Mongolia and Outer Manchuria.
>The expectations by the Chinese middle class are much more tense as their meteoric and breakneck pace in which they have grown is insanely unstable. You also have the added issue of massive demographic imbalance. There are A LOT more men in China then women and a huge horde of angry single men is never a good thing for a government.
Opinion Discarded. You clearly have no clue of what is happening in China.
Literally zero arguments, gents, nor any refutation to what I've said.
>As people become more acclimated to the west and integrate, they lose their authoritarian, regressive ways and embrace individualism and classical liberalism.
The Chinese are a very practical people.
When you don't even treat us as equals, why should we listen to you?
When your house is on fire, why should we enter it?
Typical Pseudo Intellectual
>Dat Libtard cope
Liberal democracy? Yes
Xi is as aristocratic as Chinese leaders come. He’s literally the son of a high level CCP leader.
>Proving my point even further
Go back to Facebook.
Modern China != Imperial China
Can we please stop acting like Chinese will just overthrow the government if shit goes wrong? The government is far more powerful today than ever before.
Not an argument, you limp-waisted liberal scum
Well what does that make the USA? On the brink of civil war and anarchy?
>muh libtard democracy
china's leader just became president for life and nobody cared. libtard democracy is a meme.
people don't give a shit if an authoritarian is ruling over them, just as long as they have food on the table.
Xi just stated that he’d only stay on as long as he is doing well.
I don’t see why that’s a problem. Lee Kuan Yew ruled for 30+ years. Park Chung Hee for 20 years. Meiji for 45 years. Chiang for 58 years.
Chinese “civilization” is antithetical to being a decent human being. No Indo-Aryan race would ever seek to emulate China en mass no matter how prosperous they are by comparison, which puts the outer limits of Chinese exapansion on the Korean Peninsula and Indian border.
America is kidding itself when it says it’s a liberal democracy. On one side, the republicans are bootlicking capitalist shills who ape conservatism while Trump has proved that this party doesn’t give a fuck about transcendent ethical principles or culture. On the other, the Democrats are smug cryptonazis who act as though their oppressive and authoritarian moral Puritanism is somehow justified so long as they take the occasional photo shoot with whatever miserable and mentally ill minority group happens to be the mode du jour.
Europe and Canada are absolutely justified with their undemocratic liberalism, which is the only decent hope for the future.
Western Civilization remains strong throughout South America.
Islam continues to be a potent political force, although not in the way you’d expect. I truly wish Iran the best of luck with their Theocratic Republicanism.
India is probably the most potent country for some kind of world-spirit shifting political movement.
India is honestly the third wheel.
If they continue down the path of Liberal Democracy, then its future is guaranteed as the dominant political force. And vice versa.
Yes fuck yeah its ending. I can't wait until order and security and national pride is restored throughout the world! I'm mad as fuck at this degeneracy that democracy brought us! Fuck liberalism! And fuck your rights! That goes to lolbertarians too.
>dude weed lmao
No, fuck that. We need a Duterte, we need a Mussolini, we need a strong leader who won't take shit from fake news, fake politicians or weirdo intellectuals. We need order and security and a return of human nature. Authoritarianism is not bad. Totalitarianism is not bad. It's actually better than we what we have right now.
>Totalitarianism is not bad. It's actually better than what we have right now.
>totalitarianism is good
Wait until some crazy shitheads like Mao or Pol Pot in charge of power and you can't remove him.
No fuck you, civilization is under attack. We need to stop this hippy-dippy "oh just let them do whatever they want" I hate that shit. Fuck your rights, fuck your right to be a degenerate, I want order and the good ole days back now!
Mao and Pol Pot at least kept the streets safe and made crime a capital offense and they executed drug dealers and traitors.
>I want order and the good ole days back now!
You've overplayed your hand. Had me going for a second but you might as well have put a ree at the end.
Pajeet here. Lmao. The union has been on the verge of collapse for about 40 years. Politicians don't know what the fuck to do in place of development so one party panders to ethno-nationalism and other just gives subsidies to peasants and affirmative action to lower castes. All it's going to take is one simple misstep from right or left and all the dominos will start collapsing and the western style liberalism and secularism that has been pushed down the throats of populace will come out with the vengeance. And then the country will be ripe for China like dictatorship with state capitalism. And the peasants will not care as long as they have food on the table, and the middle class will not care as long as their children can be wage slaves for reasonable rates, and the elites will not care as they'll probably be running down the liberalism and secularism down the ground.
The situation is so fucking pathetic here and whatever propaganda is shown about India being the biggest democracy in the world in West, it's a lie.
>so one party panders to ethno-nationalism and other just gives subsidies to peasants and affirmative action to lower castes
Whoa it's almost like every liberal democracy in the west.
I concur with my fellow Pajeet on this
You people in the west haven't actually experienced the real ethno-nationalism for a long time though. It's all just talk there and it feels like a joke. Here in this country we experience state sponsored genocides in the name of nationalism and religious identity. Talk about our liberal democracies being similar when you actually experience the truest of threats to liberal democracy.
This is what "liberal democracy" brought in western society nowadays, your countries truly are great role models.
Also there is a far closer counter part or "negative example" in Taiwan for mainland China to evaluate, and I can guarantee most mainland Chinese and CPP will NEVER fully adopt Western style or American style libercuck democracy, ever!
Besides, I can also witness how disgusting, twisted, degenerated, decadent and perverted western libercucks are on this very weebsite, really no better than honkies supremacists or Nu Nazi. And I believe many of them are speaking their minds due to the anonymity of this cancerous imageboard. So never will mainland China fully adopt libercuck democracy, ever! Sorry to break your fluid bubble.
>leader literally paved the way to declared himself ruler for life
>denying that despotism is not on the cards.
>The Chinese aren't naturally a servile people
holy shit /po/ amerimutts and boomers need to leave Veeky Forums. this instant appeal to fixed national or racial characteristics always marks oneself out as brainlet tier.
on the contrary, you're spewing lines of argument that have been repeated ad nauseam since the 1990s.
>hurr durr gender imbalance and rising material expectations are the secret key to understanding all china's problems!
your tone is so condescending and that of a complacent know it all it's no wonder people are mocking you or saying your speaking bullshit
>on the verge of collapse for about 40 years.
collapse is a sudden event things can't be collapsing for 40 years.
All non liberal democracies are utter shitholes.
Even singapore, korea, japan are utter garbage. The standard of living cannot compare to liberal, western, democracy.
>t.someone whose never gone out of their hicksville trailer park
The 1984 like surveillance policies that China is currently implementing is frankly alarming. A Chinese authoritarian led world is a scary prospect.
Chinese diaspora are the fucking worst. Literal insects that have no individuality
Man doesn't get killed by a mob, for eating cow meat(or any other thing) in the West though
Nigga live in London/New York for a month and then live in any major Japanese city. You'll be very surprised
keked at this delusional post
you mean /pol/
I want 50 cent chink army fuck off
>The Chinese aren't naturally a servile people
I'm not sure if you're a /pol/ack or just a Asian (diaspora) blowing your own trumpet. Nobody is genetically pre-disposed towards anything.
That statement never implied a genetic angle though.
>new form of illiberal democracy in places like Poland, Hungary
Stop talking about current events on a history board holy fuck
Friendly reminder this is how we treat uppity (Indo)-Europeans and their ilk in this country: