Is America the spiritual successor of Rome?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Is America the spiritual successor of Rome?

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Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

No.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

WE

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

No, to say such is an insult to both American and Rome. America never wanted to be like Rome, and Rome never wanted to be like America.

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MPmaster
MPmaster

America's the spiritual successor to Carthage

King_Martha
King_Martha

Yes, but butthurt and jealous europoors will deny it.

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viagrandad
viagrandad

The true heir will become apparent after the next great war

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massdebater
massdebater

WUZ

likme
likme

IZ

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

1/60 ROMANZ

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Thank you for posting this.

That's spectacular. This may be the most remarkably stupid post I've ever seen on Veeky Forums. I mean, wow. Yikes.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Obviously, but distantly.

Rome begat the European Christian state. Which begat France and England. Which begat the United States. The cultural influence of Christian Rome in part developed America as a whole, but over such a long period of time it becomes a gross oversimplification.

King_Martha
King_Martha

The Finland one is better, someone post it.

RumChicken
RumChicken

European Christian state
You mean the exact kind of thing America was rebelling against?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Yes. I mean, there really isn't another example of a civilization growing so fast, so quick and being total hegemon.

w8t4u
w8t4u

fpbp it's pretty "unironically" trying to do something different

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

It was rebelling against a "state". America has always been European and Christian.

Techpill
Techpill

Hmmm yes but it was also once "only English Protestants" too.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

America's a secular republic and the revolution was a product of enlightenment humanism. The Christian fanaticism only came with the "great awakening" in the 19th century.

Snarelure
Snarelure

only English
No

Protestants
Protestants would still be a healthy majority if it wasn't for irreligious liberals. The culture is still dominated by Protestant ideals

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

N SHEEIT

Firespawn
Firespawn

That doesn't stop it from being heavily influenced by Christianity.

StonedTime
StonedTime

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CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Is China the true spiritual successor of Rome?
btfoed the previous 'hegemony'(salting le 56% carthage, vs economically eclipsing le 56% mutts in 2014)
red aesthetic
transferred from 'republic' to 'life long emperor' recently
both based and harmonious society without the degenerative effects of corporate capitalism, blacks

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Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Nope, Romans were not dog eaters, iirc

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Is Pakistan the true spiritual successor of Rome?

Honor killings
Slavery
Sex slavery
Wear sandals and white sheets
Militaristic and authoritarian culture
Conservative and religious
Ancestor worship
Honor culture
Public executions and corporal punishment
Highly patriarchal
Hates Persians

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Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

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Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

In no way whatsoever is America the spiritual successor to Rome in any way that is not directly relevant to being arguably the most militarily powerful nation on the planet at this moment.

Spamalot
Spamalot

But china existed in the roman times and at this moment user

happy_sad
happy_sad

china
being arguably the most militarily powerful nation on the planet
Wang please

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

America never wanted to be like Rome
Built a massive statue of Washington in a toga
Wanted to call DC new rome
Wanted to call the Delaware river the Tiber
Established a senate
Cities after classical republican figures like Cincinnati
America was founded by Romaboos.
Tired of this dated /pol/ack bullshit. Feels very 2012 for some reason. America has literally nothing in common with Rome. Its getting into new uncharted waters of retarded shit, way surpassing the excesses of 5th century rome. Even the height of the american republic was basically a cigar chomping oligarch playground. Muh railroads etc

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Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Unironically yes

RavySnake
RavySnake

t. Muhammad ibn Nigel Johnson

FastChef
FastChef

Founded by outcasts and runaways
Original ethnic stock outnumbered by various immigration waves
Empire reliant on client kingdoms and indirect taxation (NATO fees, WTO fees, etc.)
Oligarchic ruling class increasing their share of wealth and property at the expense of the poor majority
Old values of austerity, modesty, and discipline discarded for hedonism
Political institutions increasingly seen as illegitimate or impotent

Yeah we totally have nothing in common with late Republican Rome

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

results speak louder then budgets user, if vietnam could btfo mutts 50 years ago i would shudder to think what the modern chinese state could do to the mutts

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Supergrass
Supergrass

ahem

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Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

The hedonism scales with material development though, I guarantee if it was possible to measure the level of excess relative to the baseline level of development of the period, Rome and the USA would have similar scores. If Rome had the technology to produce cheeseburgers, hoverrounds, and Tinder, you bet your fucking ass they would. Romans were notorious in the ancient world for being tacky as fuck and really only being good at wars and commerce, as well as picking up foreign fashions because they got bored of their own customs. They were the burgers of the ancient world. And similarly, Rome was always the playground of the elites but shit really only got bad once they started taking over soldiers' farms when they went to war and turning them into latifundia.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

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Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

No. It would be an insult to America to compare it to Rome.

King_Martha
King_Martha

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5mileys
5mileys

No. Rome had a strong, often stupidly cruel, morality. Ours is totally modern puling and delusion mongering.

Skullbone
Skullbone

Founded by outcasts and runaways
Rome was not founded by outcasts or runaways, do you need me to tell you the tooth fairy isn't real too? Herdsman and farmers founded Rome not Trojan refugees.

Original ethnic stock outnumbered by various immigration waves
There was no original ethnic stock. The "original" Americans weren't even from this continent. They were english mongrels from day one and then they were euro mongrels.

Empire reliant on client kingdoms and indirect taxation (NATO fees, WTO fees, etc.)
The US isn't reliant on any clients and this is a loose association based on necessities of expansion so long as your aim isn't to invade literally everyone like a cartoon evil empire.

Oligarchic ruling class increasing their share of wealth and property at the expense of the poor majority

Complete mischaracterization stemming from a total misunderstanding of both systems. In no way is the US republican democracy the same as the Roman senatorial class comprised almost exclusively of hereditary nobility with a far more convoluted and stagnant social hierarchy.
Old values of austerity, modesty, and discipline discarded for hedonism

Also literally every generation says the moral fabric is deterioratin and it is never actually all that accurate of a claim. To be frank the Roman poor were always sluts, murderers and manwhores. That never changed.

Political institutions increasingly seen as illegitimate or impotent
I disagree and don't believe that is a generally held viewpoint.

Emberburn
Emberburn

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SniperGod
SniperGod

Okay yeah Scottish too and like a tiny minority of Dutch and Swedish fuck you

RavySnake
RavySnake

You forgot Welsh, Irish and German too.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

I wasn't thinking of Trojan refugees faggot, I was thinking of the outcast members of other Italian city-states that congregated in the region that would become Rome and helped to swell the initial population.

The original ethnic stock was 'broadly Italic peoples who eventually developed into Latin-speaking Romans.' Rome literally had a tiered citizenship system that was reflective of self-percieved identity as Roman, Latin-Speaking, Italian, and Other. Eventually, "Other" became a large enough contingent of the Empire through conquest or immigration that a broad catagory of "Roman Citizen" was extended to a huge number of non-ethnic Romans.

They fulfill the same economic and social function, in the grand scheme of events it does not matter in the slightest if they're literally a hereditary noble class or not.

This can be actually born out though. Practices which were condemned or morally reprehensible to earlier generations become acceptable due to loosening moral standards in later generations. In America, the increasing acceptance of porn, weed, """sex work""", and in Rome, the increasing acceptance of foreign cults, luxury goods, orgiastic rituals, and upper class recusal from military service

Then you're not very in touch with how americans feel about government

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

in the grand scheme of events it does not matter in the slightest if they're literally a hereditary noble class or not.
It matters a great fucking deal that a man in the US can come from nothing and be every bit as well regarded and respected as a man that has always had everything and have every avenue and arm of the government open to them. In fact it's kind of the largest important difference between the USA and everywhere else.

Your points of connection are completely superficial and meaningless user. Extrapolated sufficiently you can say the same things about pretty much anyone.

Again, Rome is not in any way the same as the USA except for its relative military power.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

due to loosening moral standards
Define that. In what specific way did they "loosen"? Why is it "loosening" and not simply "changing"?

Accepting weed is moral degradation

It used to be legal you stupid twit. It was moral shifts that made it illegal and changed the perception that drugs=bad. If anything that would mean the attitude towards weed is correcting itself not degrading.

viagrandad
viagrandad

a man in the US can come from nothing and be every bit as well regarded and respected as a man that has always had everything and have every avenue and arm of the government open to them. In fact it's kind of the largest important difference between the USA and everywhere else.
user, what century are you living in?
Social mobility in the US is lower then most parts of europe/oceania
How would a child of a homeless or even low class parents have a remotely equal access/opportunity to life without the higher education subsidies and universal healthcare that other developed states provide?

happy_sad
happy_sad

A man in Rome could come from nothing and with the right connections and conditions rise to prominence, it happened all the fucking time. Cicero was a plebian and was the first member of his family to be a senator. Rome is fucking rife with freedmen who rose to great economic, and therefore politcal, status. Pic related is the tomb of a freed slave who got so wealthy he was able to buy an all-marble tomb on one of the main roads into the city of Rome. Fuck, one of the main characters of the Satyricon is a freedman who got obscenely wealthy. People absolutely could rise through the roman system and did, but the vast majority of the ruling class was hereditary. Just like it is now.

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5mileys
5mileys

start not allowing as many things
over time allow more things
I'm not attaching a moral value to it but that is literally the definition of loosening

Inmate
Inmate

Social mobility in the US is lower then most parts of europe (the highest income continent on the planet) oceania (pretty much 90% Australia and New Zealand both some of the highest income countries on the planet)

That is not exactly a bad deal user. I'm living in the 21st century, the one where a nobody black guy from Chicago became President of the United States and leader of the free world.

We are a lot bigger than most of the countries you would compare us to. We have much larger problems and the scale is simply not the same when the entire population of one of those countries might be what we have in poor children. But wtf does that have to do with the USA being the magical spiritual successor to Rome?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Yes

hairygrape
hairygrape

But regardless of what they did or achieved they were always freedmen or plebian. We are not, we are all citizens from the lowliest roadkill scraper to the most powerful CEO. There are no rights special to one class, no laws one group is exempt from based on birth.

Methshot
Methshot

We used to be fine with anyone inhaling anything they felt like and then passed insane legislation. We are now in the process of realizing it was insane. This isn't loosening morals it's legal disentanglement.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Read the constitution Moran:
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Firespawn
Firespawn

This argument is separate from other anons rome argument
All i am saying is that your claim of the 'american dream' of social/economic mobility that is the "largest important difference between the US and the rest of the world" is incorrect

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WebTool
WebTool

moran

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Wtf does it matter user?

In the context I was using it wasn't, though I should have clarified I was speaking of the founding of the united states and the framing of the constitution which explicitly forbids any nobility or official recognition of noble titles being a revolutionary idea for a government to have at the time. The Oligarchic ruling class he was referring to was largely hereditary and a form of nobility that was smaller than the modern 1% and had a far greater lifestyle disparity with the urban and rural poor.

It's frankly insane to try and draw a comparison. But again, none of this matters it was just you nitpicking at something trying to feel like you're a totally smart guy and not at all wasting your time on the internet like the rest of us.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

uses present tense
i-i was t-talking about the p-past user
reddit spacing
if you are going to be on an indonesian cartoon history imageboard you can at least try to present correct arguments and admit when you are wrong
otherwise, i'd suggest /r/catalog#s=history

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

user I have never once been wrong about anything in my life.

girlDog
girlDog

Legal code=/=actual reality faggot

hairygrape
hairygrape

What are you on about user?