Hygiene Thread

Sounds like anti white propaganda for me. Source?

one of the first things the Spaniards did during the Reconquest was to destroy the Moorish baths (just as the Visigoths had destroyed the Roman ones). Even after that, suspicions remained: Moors who converted to Christianity were forbidden to bathe. During the Inquisition, one of the worst things that could be said about Jews as well as Moors was that they were ‘known to bathe.’ As Richard Ford noted, these attitudes were still current in the 19th century. He tells the story of the Spanish Duke of Frias, who visited an English lady for a fortnight and ‘never once troubled his basins and jugs [on his washstand in his bedroom]; he simply rubbed his face occasionally with the white of an egg.’ This, Ford assures us, was the only ablution used by Spanish ladies in the time of Philip IV, and apparently it was good enough for the Duke.

Imagine, then, the redolence of the conquistadores, after weeks of close confinement in a ship, on arrival in a hot country. To make the contrast between the Spaniards and Aztecs even more stark, the Aztecs, being originally Asian, had many fewer merocrine glands than Westerners, and those are the glands that produce sweat. Asians will tell you that even a very clean Westerner smells strong to an Asian nose, so the fragrance of the unwashed conquistadores must have been ... impressive if not downright disgusting to the Aztecs. Small wonder that they responded by fumigating the Spaniards with incense as they approached. The Spaniards took it as an honour, but for the Aztecs it was a practical necessity...

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Id heard about twice a year but twice in a life for fear of water? People have to come into contact with water one way or another.

>the Visigoths destroyed the Roman baths
The wealthier visigoths even went so far as to build their own private baths. They may not have been as common as before (the fall of the Empire left the region in a bad shape economically and private baths are expensive), but I have never read about them actually destroying baths.

In central africa they preformed c sections with such skill it baffled the Europeans
Also small pox inoculation was well known in West Africa that and cataract removal
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa

European travelers in the Great Lakes region of Africa (Uganda and Rwanda) during the 19th century observed Caesarean sections being performed on a regular basis. The expectant mother was normally anesthetized with banana wine, and herbal mixtures were used to encourage healing. From the well-developed nature of the procedures employed, European observers concluded that they had been employed for some time.[65]

That's because it's not real, he's posting gibberish from an Aztec Nationalist Children's page. Said claims are uncited.

West Africa
The knowledge of inoculating oneself against smallpox seems to have been known to West Africans, more specifically the Akan. A slave named Onesimus explained the inoculation procedure to Cotton Mather during the 18th century; he reported to have gotten the knowledge from Africa.[55]

The Sahel Edit
In Djenné the mosquito was identified to be the cause of malaria, and the removal of cataracts was a common surgical procedure.[56]

The dangers of tobacco smoking were known to African Muslim scholars, based on Timbuktu manuscripts.[57]

An account by the 12th century chronicler Usama ibn Munqidh;

"I heard a similar case from a bath attendant called Salim from Ma'arra, who worked in one of my fathers bathhouses. This is his tale:

I earned my living in Ma'arra by opening a bathhouse. One day a Frankish knight came in. They do not follow our custom of wearing a cloth around their waist while they are at the baths, and this fellow put his hand, snatched off my loin-cloth and threw it away. He saw at once that I had just recently shaved my pubic hair.

'Salim!' he exclaimed! I came toward him and he pointed to that part of me.

'Salim! You shall certainly do the same for me!' and he lay down flat on his back. His "hair" was as long as his beard. I shaved him, and when he had felt the place with his hand and found it agreeably smooth, he said: 'Salim, you must certainly do the same for my Dama'. In their language Dama means lady, or wife. He sent his valet to fetch his wife, and when they arrived and the valet brought her in, she lay down on her back and he said to me:

'Do to her what you did to me.' So I shaved her pubic hair, while her husband stood. Then he thanked me and paid me for my services

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>being this asshurt

What the fuck

>pan-European fear of water
anyone writing about Pan-European culture is an idiot or propagandist

newrepublic.com/article/129828/getting-clean-tudor-way

The sixteenth-century belief in the cleansing power of linen turns out in practice to have some truth to it. The laundry makes a vast difference. The smell of the past undoubtedly was not the same as the smell of the present, but we need to be aware that cleanliness and being neat and sweet-smelling were important issues for Tudor peopl

>(Spaniards of the time cleaned their teeth with urine.)

Perverts.

>The smell of the past undoubtedly was not the same as the smell of the present

?

Perfect place to discuss the ongoings of the empire.

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Small pox inolucation has nothing to dl with hygiene habit, user. same for caeseran.

EEEEEEEEWWWWWWW

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books.google.com.gh/books?id=XH35Y3A6rGEC&pg=PA107

Games that teach hygiene and ethics of care among the Shonas

pdf :
pastebin.com/31RkmnVv

Most urban centers pre-hygiene were literal shitholes instead of figurative ones.

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>Spaniards of the time cleaned their teeth with urine
I'm going to save this, so I can use it when a /pol/tard post Dinka tribesmen taking piss shower, thank you.

They used nail files or their teeth. i guess

You have to take into account the fact that Europe was scared for some really long time of bath because of the black pest

This sounds like propaganda... a lot. Also I don't know whether Amerindians having fewer sweat glands is actually true or not.

Again? You have posted this already.

I read a roman letter that described German barbarians washing their hair with lye or greasing it back with rancid butter. Dunno if true.

What a bunch of biased drivel. What is the source?

You realize there is no source and its all bullshit, right?

www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/home/clean-aztecs-dirty-spaniards

This is the source.

white people do smell weird even after they shower.

>As in a traditional Russian steam bath, the bathers could speed up perspiration by thrashing themselves with twigs and grasses.
>traditional Russian
>Russian
RÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Interesting.

reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2pv5h8/did_ancient_romans_really_brush_their_teeth_with/

I thought that was Pygmies.

The sources are on the site itself

Sources/further reading (Aztecs)
• The Badianus Manuscript (Codex Barberini, Latin 241) (original in Vatican Library): An Aztec Herbal of 1552 - intro, trans & annotations by Emily Walcott Emmart, John Hopkins Press, Baltimore, 1940
• The Florentine Codex, Book 11 - Earthly Things - trans by Charles E. Dibble and Arthur J.O. Anderson, University of Utah, Part XII, 1963
• Aztec Medicine, Health and Nutrition by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano, Rutgers University Press, 1990
• An Aztec Herbal: The Classic Codex of 1552 - trans & commentary by William Gates, Dover Publications, 1939/2000
• Daily Life of the Aztecs by Jacques Soustelle, Stanford University Press, 1961 (English trans)
• Handbook to Life in the Aztec World by Manuel Aguilar-Moreno, Facts on File, 2006

Sources/further reading (Europe)
• Katherine Ashenbug, Clean: An Unsanitised History, Profile Books, 2008
• John A. Crow, Spain: The Root and the Flower (Harper and Row, 1963)
• Erna Paris, The End of Days: A Story of Tolerance, Tyranny, and the expulsion of the Jews from Spain (Lester, 1995).

Bump

Europeans have been bathing for thousands of years. You’re spewing out anti-white myths.

medievalists.net/2013/04/did-people-in-the-middle-ages-take-baths/

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathing#cite_ref-Warsh_5-0

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That's nail files FOR their teeth

It says it right there though

The switch from woolen to linen clothing by the 16th century also accompanied the decline in bathing. Linen clothing is much easier to clean and maintain – and such clothing was becoming commonplace at the time in Western Europe. Clean linen shirts or blouses allowed people who had not bathed to appear clean and well groomed. The possession of a large quantity of clean linen clothing was a sign of social status. Thus, appearance became more important than personal hygiene. Medical opinion supported this claim. Physicians of the period believed that odors, or miasma, such as that which would be found in soiled linens, caused disease. A person could therefore change one's shirt every few days, but avoid baths – which might let the 'bad air' into the body through the pores.

16th century was when Aztecs encountered Europeans.

I dunno about that either, but Mexicans were extremely fastidious in hygiene and presumably sensitive smells. Aromatic substances -- flowers, incense -- were ever present in religious life, social life, and domestic life. People who were connoisseurs of aroma almost certainly would have been put off by the stench of the Spaniards, who brushed their teeth with piss. It would certainly put us off too, and I personally bathe less than Aztecs did (less than once a day, whereas they might bathe twice). That doesn't mean that's why they greeted them with incense -- they did that for everyone. But I'd believe they probably made an extra pass or two.

I've seen they in one of my history book in middle school.I'm French and the enlightened Islam meme is strong in our syllabus.

Can you tell people to stop coming out with the "killing cats caused the plague" anecdote? I'm tired of hearing it from vociferous catfags who won't even entertain the idea that their lovely little furballs are causing untold harm.

It's new to me
Saved. Thanks.

>Europeans have been bathing for thousands of years. You’re spewing out anti-white myths.

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>bathes twice a day
>dies of the first illness comin through

Bathing is bad for immunitary system

So im guessing all these medieval paintings that depict Europeans bathing are all fabrications?

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... the army stayed the night in Iztapalapa a very beautiful city of thousands of houses with wonderful patios and halls made from exquisite woodworks of cedar and other aromatic woods."

I really like this description by a conquistador imagine the palaces built with nice smelling woods, the flowers in the gardens >)

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The wealthy had their own tubs. The very article you got these picture from states that they would have attendants bathe them. Normal people don't have servants who bathe them. Poorer people would have to travel to a bath house, if such things even existed in their locality, which the same article suggests was rare. The first picture you posted literally has a king in it. Same article has Saxons making fun of Norsemen for bathing once a week, as though this was an obsessive amount.

It just wasn't something most people did regularly. But there's evidence that normal Mexicans did bathe regularly.

Europeans bathed a lot in the medieval period but around the time of contact with Amerindians it dropped significantly.

>The prominence of the public bathhouse went into rapid decline in the sixteenth-century.

I can't speak for the comments about the Spanish being dirty fucks, but the stuff that user said about the Aztecs being autistically obsessed with hygiene is accurate: Tenochtitlan DID have a whole class of civil servants that swept streets, cleaned buildings, and collected trash & waste daily, and even commoners did use steam baths on a regular basis. Gardens with sweet smelling flowers and trees were intentionally built in key locations around the city and in open air rooms of noble homes and palaces, and wood from said trees was used in construction

The sanitation measures they had in place was borne out of the fact the capital was built on a a swampy island, and the city extended into the lake itself due to being expanded with artificial islands and having canals all over the place. They needed to stay clean to prevent shit from becoming fetid, which is also why the city had a ton of aqueducts on causeways and a dikes in a network around the lake and other islands to provide access to clean water and control water flow

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1805201/ is a really good tl;dr of Aztec sanitation and medicinal practices that goes into this. It focuses more on that then the hydraulic parts, but those get a tangential mentions too

Mexicolore is iffy. A lot of the site is accurate and is a good source of info (especially compared to most sources of info about the Aztecs/mesoamerica online, which is generally awful) and written in a easy to approach way, but the people who run it aren't experts and it shows with incorrect stuff occasionally seeping in. If you don't know much about the Aztecs/Mesoamerica, I'd say it's a good place to get a lot of generally corrrect info in a good amount of detail quickly, but I'd ONLY use it as a jumping off point to then investigate specific stuff it says in more detail via actual papers/studies, reputable books, FAMSI, Askhistorians, etc

Attached: Tenochtitlan Aztec captial map teno.jpg (5000x3100, 1.28M)

Also, to clarify:

The "artifical islands" are the rectangular bits of lands you see in grids with canals between them in that image. The "solid" green is natural land.

The gif in pic related does a good job showing the expansion via these artificial islands, though the 200k population figure is misleading: it's not 200k for every city/town in the gif combined: Only the main island of Tenochtitlan (AFAIk also including Tlatelolco, which had more or less been absorbed by Tenochtitlan by the time in the gif the number shows up) composes that 200k, the other towns/cities were more on top of that.

Attached: Tenochtitlan evolution DOWNSCALED, WITHOUT LABELLESS IMAGES, 200K FIGURE IS ONLY FOR TENOCHTITLAN MA (900x597, 3.82M)

Also, to clarify:

The "artifical islands" are the rectangular bits of lands you see in grids with canals between them in that image. The "solid" green is natural land.

The gif in pic related does a good job showing the expansion via these artificial islands, though the 200k population figure is misleading: it's not 200k for every city/town in the gif combined: ONLYOnly the main island of Tenochtitlan (AFAIk also including Tlatelolco, which had more or less been absorbed by Tenochtitlan by the time in the gif the number shows up) composes that 200k, the other towns/cities/islands were more on top of that: Tlacopan/Tacuba had around 30k-40k, for instance, itzalpalapa 20k-30k.

I don't know values for any of the others in the image off the top of my head, but Azcapotzalco, prior to Tenochtitlan, Tlacopan, and Texococ overthrowing it was the most powerful city in the entire valley/lake basin, if not all of centtral mesoamerica, let alone just this part of the lake visible in the gif; so I'd expect it's population to be in the 20k to 40k range like Tlacopan and Itzalapapa. The others probably range from 3k to 10k for the small islands, tto 10k to 10k for the other decent sized towns you see.

Across the entire lake basin/valley, not just what's visible here, the total population was 1-1.5 million people, across around 20 towns and cities, 30+ if you include smaller, less important villages and towns

Attached: Tenochtitlan evolution DOWNSCALED, WITHOUT LABELLESS IMAGES, 200K FIGURE IS ONLY FOR TENOCHTITLAN MA (900x597, 3.82M)

shit, meant to quote here

>Post info on ancient or pre-modern hygiene.
African dick washers.

Attached: We Wuz Dick Washers And Shiet.jpg (623x644, 84K)

Apparently Europeans were worse even than Indians. Every street was a shitting street, not just designated ones.

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that painting actually shows circumcision, but idk that's much better

>For most people, having a private bath was not an option – it was simply too costly and too time-consuming to have their own baths. That does not mean they went without bathing, for public baths were very common throughout Europe. By the thirteenth-century one could find over 32 bathhouses in Paris; Alexander Neckham, who lived in that city a century earlier, says that he would be awakened in the mornings by people crying in the streets that ‘that baths are hot!”

>In Southwark, the town on the opposite side of the Thames River from London, a person could choose from 18 hot baths. Even smaller towns would have bathhouses, often connected with the local bakery – the baths could make use of the heat coming from their ovens to help heat their water.

Looks like you’re wrong.

Major cities like Paris would have canal systems in between streets which would carry away feces and other waste out of the city

Looks like I am.

>baths could make use of the heat coming from their ovens

That must have smelled pretty good.

>so the senate will
>braaaaaaaaap
>and we will ensure our villa is
>bralflflflflooop

To be fair, the Aztecs weren't teepee village injuns, they were basically ancient greece tier (in most ways they were either bronze or iron age level; though behind bronze tier in a few ways and ahead of iron in a few as well) and the entire region they were in was filled with urban cities and proper political states, and had been predominately urban and state based for over 1500 years by that point.

Attached: Montezuma's Palace besides the city center (off to the right), in Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capti (1200x800, 323K)

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c section was discovered by the Romans

The Einsatzgruppen was an anti-terrorist organization.

We all know Byzantines bathed. What's discussed is western europe not whites in general. So anti Western Europe if it even is that.

bump

Don't facilitate such embarrassing behavior. We're supposed to be the ones who acknowledge hierarchy, why are you catering to the mass?
Just tell him that bathing is for soyboys and then move on. The worth of such people is measured in number of twitter posts and volume of Aryan blood to be harvest- n-number of rallies attended.
Ignore that last bit, I'm not Anglo. I'm Aryan like you, my skin is a rosy and pink colour, not that strong, slate grey that w- that Anglos have. My contempt for the rank and file has nothing to do with being a Northumbrian pigman overseer.
Although I do hate those Northern pigmen, with their bulbous, red fucking faces.
I wish there was one Greggs large enough to fit them all in before I fucking burn it down.

Queen Elizabeth I
She's said to have taken a bath once a month “whether she needed it or not" even though she had access to sunken bath. Writes show me the science: 'During the Elizabethan era, women wore a kind of makeup called “Venetian Ceruse,” which was a skin whitener made of lead. Queen Elizabeth I would renew her Ceruse every morning upon waking, without washing off the previous days’ application. Either a medieval hygiene practice or just plain lazy.'
The elaborate hairstyles of the aristocratic ladies, queens and princesses looked elegant. But there was a catch. Behind that elegance they often carried lice in those huge hairdos. The combs and picks seen in pictures sticking out were used to stab and scratch at the lice. Washing the hair was even more infrequent than washing the body, particularly among women. Hardly anyone washed their hair until the 19th Century. Hair was maintained by excessive use of hair powders and perfumed ointments to groom the hair. One can imagine the gooey mess it must have been. Show me the science mentions lice infested "wigs were shaped with animal fats, making them both disgusting and very likely to catch fire if exposed to candle flame."

Attached: Queen-Elizabeth-Armada-Portrait.jpg (768x512, 125K)

In Spain the Christian doctrine saw bathing to be a corrupt practice that could only lead to "nakedness." It was considered a form of "hedonism" and something "unreligous." Religious Christians often walked from England or France to Jerusalem as a ritual without washing or changing their clothes. After the conquest of Granada by the Christians, the Muslims of Spain not only had to give up their religion to survive the Inquisition, they also had to give up bathing. Isabella and Ferdinand ordered the Muslim baths to be destroyed and bathing was strictly forbidden. When Columbus mentioned about the daily bathing habits of the natives of the Bahamas and the Caribeans, Isabella was horrified and commanded her new subjects to stop this "blasphemous bathing" practice at once. Isabella boasted that she herself had only bathed twice in her life and every historian takes her word for it.

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In ancient northern Europe Saturday was called "Laugardagur" or "washing day" before it was renamed "Saturn's day." They washed themselves weekly on this day, until the Christianity fad came around and you'd be killed for practicing such pagan rituals.

People stopped washing when they became Christian hippies, and thus diseases and plagues became widespread.

White is Pagan, and Europeans were indeed very clean people when they were Pagan, until a certain Jewish desert religion took over and they became rather disgusting and disease ridden.

Shame that Veeky Forums fetish thread 404'd because all this talk about sweaty unwashed bodies is reacting with my bugman aversion to dirt.
My dick is twitching more than it has in years.

To be fair, bathing in christian europe halted when it did because of the plague, the public bathhouses that people made use of were a major disease vector. They didn't just decide to stop doing it one day because jebus said so, although that was undoubtedly the excuse given.

The doctor who came up with the idea of hand-washing was literally considered crazy.

At the time to have someone else's blood on your hands or shirt was seen as something to be proud of, even encouraged among doctors or surgeons. It showed you were experienced and knew how to get your hands dirty. Doctors would regularly walk from bed to bed, surgery to surgery, covered in infected blood.

Ignaz Semmelweis observed in a maternity ward that pregnant women were dying postpartum because of infections which caused blood poisoning and eventually death. He saw that simply washing your hands between patients and being hygienic reduced the incidence of infection and less people died. To say the medical establishment was resistant to the idea was an understatement. Semmelweis was ridiculed and forced to leave his position and move, but still he persisted with his ideas.

Eventually, he was tricked to visit/inspect a mental institution where he was committed against his will by his colleagues. The orderlies beat him so much he developed wounds and an infection. He died of blood poisoning, the same disease he fought to hard to cure.

On that note, and the note of Aztec/Mesoamerican hygine vs the Spanish, some conquistadors literally thought the smallpox outbreak was from the Mesoamericans bathing too much

This has got to be the single most stupid thing I have read in quite a fucking while. Holy fucking shit.

They were probably right, to a limited and primitive extent. I highly doubt that large numbers of people gathering together was preventing the illness' spread.
One thing Europeans know is dying from epidemic disease, so don't you cluck your tongue, Skyler.

To be fair, see this hereThere were certain very good reasons why the spaniards might have thought that. Did the Aztecs have communal bathing areas?

>Did the Aztecs have communal bathing areas?

Yes.
Proofs: only we are assburgers enough to bathe in private.

Did women shave their legs in the 15-16 centuries?
How did they do it if they did?
What about pubes?

>wipe self with fine sand
>scrape fine sand off
It sucks, but with more effort it will do a decent job.

W-w-what are the sticks for?

Toilet roll. There's a sponge on the end.
They didn't need to use a sponge on a stick but according to Lucian the feeling of another man's shit touching your arsehole is exquisite.
No wonder the empire fell.

Saturday still is called Washing day in Nordic countries. Even in Finland it's called that and it's the traditional Sauna bathing day.

Attila saved the romans

nah, it only made the infection wider.
Europeans diseases has no way to cross the Pacific or Atlantic to the American continent. They were isolated from the plagues preventing them to even get proper defenses against them.

Hi Varg

What's all this Europe shaming? In Neolithic Orkney they built some sort of flush toilet, Minoans had running water, toilets, bathtubs and so did Mycenaeans, bronze age Sards built pools, Etruscans built sewers, Romans built heated baths, sewers and had running cold and hot water, Celts used soap.

Did they still wash their ass or just have smelly, torn up asses their whole lives?