How Many Carbs?

>get all your fat content from lean meats such as chicken, as well as an oatmeal or something of the like
Jesus christ you are new level retard

Makes sense, and also true.

>If you eat below TDEE an don't lose weight,you have a thyroid /metabolism problem
No you have a overestimated tdee or counting problem. thyroid problem may decrease your metabolism, but you can still lose weight

You're nutrition Hitler. Holy shit is that a lot of bullshit being spewed.

My suggestion is to restrict not the quantity, but the quality of the carbohydrates.

Carbs from things like vegetables are all locked up and take time to go from your gut to your blood. These carbs have a negligable impact on your blood sugar highs and lows.

Carbs from things like pasta and bread have a much more significant impact on your blood sugar and are digested in the blink of an eye. Your saliva is already breaking free the carbs in bread before you even swallow.

By smoothing out the blood sugar spikes you'll have much greater control of your insulin which plays the a large role in appetite suppression and fat retention.

Insulin suppresses the signaling that leptin triggers in the brain. Leptin is a signaling hormone from fat that says "I have energy". Its two main functions in the brain is to suppress appetite through the vagus nerve and upregulate the central nervous system. When insulin is present in higher levels these two actions are impaired.

This mechanism explains why the fat fucks on keto and fasting all suddenly say they "have all sorts of energy" and "aren't hungry at all". The leptin is finally breaking through.

My dietary rules are to eat from the perimeter of the store almost exclusively excepting the bakery department. Vegetables, Meat, and Dairy. Processed foods like bread, pasta, flour, or things that come in a box or bag are strictly off limits.

>Be 250 lbs with 30% BF.
>Change diet from garbage to super foods: salmon, tuna, blueberries, avocados, walnuts, basically eat healthy.
>Maintain calories 500 below TDEE
>Work ass off in gym 6 days a week.
>Check self after three weeks: loss 4 pounds, BF barely changes.

Switch to low carb

>Maintain same number of calories
>drop carbs to below 50 per day
>Maintain same workout routine
>check self after two weeks
>down almost 17 pounds, BF dropped 7 percentage points.

Yeah, low carb “doesn’t work” it’s alllllll about CICO. Shitty meme needs to die.

17lbs / 250lbs x 100=6.8%
Every single one of those lbs lost would have had to be fat to even equal 6.8%. Out of those 17lbs, over 10lbs is water weight from the carb restriction. You are a delusional fatty

>Processed foods like bread, pasta, flour, or things that come in a box or bag are strictly off limits
What's it like to not be peak performance? Enjoy your no gains

You’re high if you think it was 10 lbs of water weight. You’d be so dehydrated you’d be in the hospital.

It’s a medical fact that when carbs are restricted your body turns to ketones for energy and those ketones are pulled from the adipose tissues. You’re brain (well maybe not yours since you have a microbrain) is a juggernaut when it comes to energy consumption. Take away the carbs, it burns fat like a beast.

You are fucking retarded .
Only the deficit will get pulled out of your adipose , it would be the fucking same if you ate carbs , expect that instead of fueling your brain with your adipose you'd have fueled other pathway , Keto is only a "trojan horse" to allow Fat energy to cross some barrier that fatty acids can't cross but carbs can , it's not magical .

if you're recomping keep the carbs up .

The two best way to prevent muscle breakdown during a cut is Protein & carbs .
Protein will allow you to rebuild them faster than you use them;
But carbs will allow you to NOT use them in the first place ;
Proton : anabolic , Carbs : anti-catabolic , Fat : Neutral .

You’re like a baboon that’s screaming for his midday melons.

Lookie here, Cletus. The body is not a bomb calorimeter. The first law of thermodynamics are a bit more murky when it comes to human physiology. This notion of CICO falls flat when you realize that fat is not regulated by caloric intake, but by hormones - namely insulin. Carbs in the blood stream trigger insulin release/production which end up shifting fat oxidation to fat storage. High insulin leads to obesity, low insulin leads to weight loss. Again, since you’ve probably already forgotten what was said at the start of this post... it is carbs, not calories that promote insulin production and releas.

With low carb diets once the liver and muscle cells have been depleted of glycogen the body shifts to the fat storage for energy in the form of ketone bodies.

Carbs make it more difficult for those overweight to lose weight because as long as carbs are present in the diet and or blood stream the body has no need to tap into its fat reserves. Secondly, as long as carbs are present the insulin in the blood will make it difficult for fat cells to release their stored “energy.”

Why is this so hard for you to understand? It’s basic biology.

Did you eat paint chips as kid?

Good goy , you learned your keto-guru's lesson perfectly my man , It's the INSULIN fault .

Tips : Over the course of the day if your CI is lower than CO there is no way you can create a medium insulin raise high enough to prevent fat burning at all hours of the day . Main driver of ability to access adipose is TOTAL ENERGY BALANCE .

t.ex fat fuck who is now a a tuby flying squirel , probably don't do much cardio beside walking and do a strength program .

Wew it's almost like cutting chips ( mostly fat ) , fries ( mostly fat ) , donuts ( mostly fat ) from your diet will make you lose weight because it'll allow you to enter a caloric deficit

chips: 15g fats, 41g carbs
fries: 16g fats, 41g carbs
donuts: 25g fats, 51g carbs
Why are you calling these mostly fat? Either by calories or weight, you have more carbs than fats. Stop lying.

>look at me im an obese faggot who dropped my scale weight by 17lbs in 2 weeks and now i know everything about nutrition.
There is no point in arguing this, you are delusional fatty. Enjoy being fat and doing whatever it is that fattys do. I'll just be chillin over hear shredded at peak performance, but keep blaming the carbs.

A well planed diet should be at least 3x more Kcals from carbs than Fat , those product have almost as much or even more in the case of the donuts .Relatively and compared to an healthy diet they're Medium carbs very high fat

You’re conveniently overlooking the fact the human body, likely through the evolutionary process, is an efficient machine that wants to conserve energy. Using stored fat is the last thing the body wants to do. It has other ways of dealing with the energy balance “equation.” For one example: fatigue and lethargy.

Keto speeds up the fat loss process and forces the body to devour fat.

I’ve seen too many people lose enormous amounts of weight on Keto / Keto’esque diets and far more who struggle to lose a hand full of pounds under the false meme of CICO.

So you've changed the definition of common words. Nice cult behavior you've got going on there. It must help with your lies.

>Ketard talking about cult behavior

Ayyylmao , they have to invent conspiracy theory even dumber than the flat earth to justify their diet .

>Using stored fat is the last thing the body wants to do
So if you are eating -500cals/day with carbs your body will burn less fat than eating -500/cals a day without carbs. In your scenario your body actually burns more calories than it needs simply because no carbs are present. You really should stop posting

>t. doesn’t understand how the body works.

wew lad.

t.doesn't understand how the body works.

Which is it?
>Non Keto: Your body generates calories out of thin air to make up for the -500cal difference preventing you from burning fat
>Keto: Your body inefficiently burns more fat than it needs to make up for the -500cal difference and then some which results in extra fat loss.

Please respond

When you run at a calorie deficit, but carbs are present your body burns the calories and stores most of the carbs as fat. The energy equation is balanced by the body slowing down some metabolic prpcesses and creating fatigue in the person.

When run at a calorie deficit with no carbs present your body continues to burn through fat as well as use the calorie eaten. The body doesn’t have to alter metabolic rates because the energy is there.

Insulin blocks fat release. Go back to school, Chumlee.

>Insulin is a powerful stimulator of LPL and a powerful inhibitor of HSL. So, as insulin levels rise in the body they not only increase fat storage, but perhaps more importantly block fat breakdown.

metaboliceffect.com/science-insulin/

Who the fuck told you this , were did you read this , please I need it , I want to find the source of all this alternative science bullshit , it's a mind blowing work of brainwashing and I want to know who is the puppet master

And you know what has even higher drive & priority on LPL & HSL ? TOTAL ENERGY BALANCE

>2k cals tdee, consume 1.5k cals
>200g carbs = 800cals of carbs
>body stores the 800cals as fat because fuck it
>body shuts down life sustaining processes because to make up for the 800cals of carbs and the -500cal deficit becasue fuck it
Am i being trolled here?

Yes , the amount of alternative science coming from those cultist is astonishing .

Wrong. CICO doesn’t affect LPL or HSL. Who the fuck told you take? Was it Steve the guy who bakes your dose of donuts, you fat fuck?

Keep LARPing and pretending the body isn’t a complex machine. Hurrrr durrrrr just eat less hurrrrrr.

my macros for a lean bulk is 320g carbs, 200g protein and 100g of fat, for about 3000 calories, i cut at 2500 calories by cutting about 110g of carbs, keeps me energetic enough on my workouts, my pump is still pretty ok, and i can still eat

>bulking
>3000 cals

Donuts are high fat low carbs my good dude

...

READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE. If you can’t read have someone read it to you.

metaboliceffect.com/science-insulin/

20% of fat 8% of carbs
HIGH FAT LOW CARBS

Even if what you're saying is true, this is not an argument against CICO. You're saying that adjusting the CI makes your body adjust the CO (depending on the source of the CI).
In this case CICO still holds, but with the condition that the CO varies, altering the original equation.

That said, I'd love to see a source for this claim.

"There are other fat storing hormones (ASP, GIP-1, Ghrelin, Etc) but insulin is probably the most important"

"but insulin is (((((probably))))) the most important ", he literally has no proof or explanation about why it is (((((PROBABLY))))) the most important

Those %’s are daily recommendations not % composition of the food item you galactic dumbass.

I never said you could over eat on Keto. If you eat 4000 calories on Keto you’ll not lose weight. Keto is a diet that increases the rate of fat loss. Doesn’t mean you can gorge on as many calories as you want.

My diet is low cholesterol , I only ingest 9g , it may be 3000% of the daily recommendation but it's less than my fiber intake of 10 so I can say that my diet is High fiber low cholesterol .

Thanks Dr

>thermodynamics arent real reeeeeeeeee

Not going to enter the whole debate going on in here, but I can tell you what worked for me.
>Eat at a Keep carbs to a max of 100g per day
>Get your fats from lean meat/eggs/nuts/etc
>Lift heavy
>Stay consistent as all hell
I'm not claiming there's anything in that list that's critical to the goals you described, except from that last one. This was a method I decided to try out, and it worked reasonably well for me. It may have been faster to do a more aggressive cut and then bulk.
Good luck OP.

This , since the beginning of life it has always been about gathering enough energy to survive & potentially thrive to stay alive long enough and create has much offspring as possible & those retard cultist believe that energy balance isn't one of the most important enzyme & hormone regulator in the body

It's so obvious that its the same fat fuck from spewing this shit to justify eating 400g of fat a day. You are fat not eating carbs, i am shredded eating carbs. Who wins?

how can someone be this retarded?

obviously if you overestimate it you won't lose weight properly, he said if you eat below your tdee, your tdee doesn't change just because you get it wrong obviously so why even bring it up?

Just stay fat dude you have no idea what you are saying.

Not OP, but I've been doing this at skinnyfat/dyel, lost 7lbs in past month but no noticeable bf change, routine?

>lean bulking is 200-300 calories above maintenance bro

>how can someone be this retarded?
Hey fucking einstein, if you are gaining weight eating "under your tdee" guess what, you fucked up calculating your tdee or your calories. that post is correct

>be fat
>pick one of the 11,873,490 tdee calculators online
>get number of calories
>eat said number of calories for a week
>no weight change
>don't adjust calories
>do the same thing for a few weeks, no change
CARBS ARE KEEPING ME FAT REEEEEEE.

I fell for the low carb meme. ended up with a shitty body. do not do it. everything doesnt matter. eat whatever the fuck you feel like, but stay under deficit and get enough protein

Pic related, but with less volume, and deadlifts instead of rack pulls. Because I'm too lazy to type out the exact volume and routine, the gist of it is 1 set less on compounds.

Should also mention that that deadlifts only had 1 working set, just in case that wasn't clear.
I'd also try to hit 1rm on deadlift once every third or fourth week, because I found it was a pretty decent indicator of whether or not I needed to switch things up in my diet or routine. For the most part it stayed the same, though.

Is that image supposed to be scientific?

>Carbs in the blood stream trigger insulin release/production which end up shifting fat oxidation to fat storage. High insulin leads to obesity, low insulin leads to weight loss.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4603544/

>This study demonstrated that, calorie for calorie, restriction of dietary fat led to greater body fat loss than restriction of dietary carbohydrate in adults with obesity. This occurred despite the fact that only the carbohydrate restricted diet led to decreased insulin secretion and a substantial sustained increase in net fat oxidation compared to the baseline energy-balanced diet.

fats: 9 calories per gram, carbs: 4 calories per gram

>be chunky monkey
>try to lose weight
>hear "USE CICO YOU FUCKING FATASS"
>get TDEE
>lose 10 pounds
>refuse to adjust TDEE
>CARBS ARE THE DEVIL QUICK TELL ME ITS NOT MY FAULT

So I’m to believe that if I reduce my caloric intake by 500 - TDEE everyday for 5 years I should weigh 12 pounds. By the CICO fascists’ logic I’ll just keep losing and losing. Maybe I’ll get lucky and end up weighing 10 pounds.

>begging the question

That's called starving to death you retard

OMG they experimented for a while 6 days on 19 people! Fuck me that’s some serious science right there I tell ya! 6 whole days.... and a huge.... I mean enormous test subject pool of a whole 19 lardasses. Fuck me I better change my whole position now.

So this insulin theory of yours doesn't work during the first 6 days, but on day 7 it should kick in?

not sure if troll

They must think starvation is just a hormonal imbalance.

I mean hey they tested their hypothesis on a whopping 0.00000027% of the 7 billion people on the planet.

Using 19 adults over a six day period isn’t science, it’s a joke.

So this insulin theory of yours is also specific to certain people?

The science on ketone body production in the absence of insulin and carbs is sound solid science.

You burn more fat (faster) with a keto based diet than you do with a simple 500 cal deficiency of a TDEE. Also a fact.

>You burn more fat (faster) with a keto based diet than you do with a simple 500 cal deficiency of a TDEE. Also a fact.
In what dimension is this true?

If only there were any evidence of this. The reality is that a ketogenic diet with the same number of calories as a non-ketogenic diet has no detectable advantage.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27385608

Then you explain why a guy who has a TDEE or let’s say 3000 calories (for arguments sake) eats 1500 calories a day and should, by all accounts, lose about 3 pounds ((1500x7) / 3500) in a seven day period, but steps on the scale to find he’s only lost 1.5 pounds.

>inb4 he didn’t do his TDEE right

All things considered let’s say he did. And let’s say his calorie intake was within a 10% margin of error.

The amount of fat loss people experice does not, mathematically, add up with the CICO equations.

Which means there’s more at work than just

>eat less bruh

>if you lose more energy than you take for the day, you still have more energy by the end of the day because of carbs

What did he mean by this?

The standard underaged poster question. I guess school is just getting out for the day.

You're level of stupidity is off the charts
>completely make up fake tdee
>completely make up fake calorie deficit
>completely make up the fake pounds lost
>completely proves keto
0/10 made me reply

>completely proves keto

At least you finally agree.

> It's the INSULIN fault
why not both? increased insuline increases appetite so some people will be prone to weight gain because of that

Because of an increase in appetite? Or an increase in calories taken in because they can't control their eating? Still blaming the body instead of the person shoving more food than they should into it, I see.

>Because of an increase in appetite? Or an increase in calories taken in because they can't control their eating?
Well increased appetite leads to increased calories intale, so i dont know what are you arguing about...it was my first post too.

>Well increased appetite leads to increased calories intale
Maybe for those with lack of willpower, aka mcfattys

Oh really? So hunger just triggers something in someone's brain that causes them to lose all will and start consuming anything withing arms reach? Stay fat fatty.

Nevertheless that is what increased appetite do to your body. It makes you want to eat.

Your weight on a scale can be influenced by anything from water retention to how much shit you have in your ass at the moment.

>causes them to lose all will and start consuming anything withing arms reach?
I never wrote anything like that. Are you thinking im that other person you argued about keto or what? It is true that carbs increase insuline production which increases appetite and i clearly wrote SOME people would gain weight because of that. So i dont understand where you are coming from with that.

>you store shit in your ass
these are the people giving you advice on physiological processes. good luck Veeky Forums

>be insulin
>increases Fatty A's hunger
>fatty scarfs down a pizza
>gains weight

>be insulin
>increases Fatty B's hunger
>Fatty B exercises control
>doesn't gain weight

Just how retarded are you? You don't understand this? The only difference is Fatty A's and Fatty B's response. So again, who's fault is it? The insulin or, the fatty's?

Ive had great success with keto and low carb generally.I know Ive done a 500 cal deficit and did lose weight but when I did keto I lost fat in the stubborn areas my man tits went away completely

Do you know how the colon works?

>constantly secretes shit in a steady stream throughout the day

This is normal, right guys?

you know your TDEE can vary a LOT , Depending on how much activity I do it can range from sub 2000 if all I do is stay on computer all day up to 4000+ on workday where I also lift

And lots of people really hyperestimate their activity level , lots of 3x a week lifter would consider themselves "moderately active" but if all they do next to that is shitpost and watch series & don't even walk to their gym then their TDEE is closer to 1.05x sedentary which would hardly be more than 2200 for most people .

You must also remember that fat is only lightly metabolically active at rest , If I kept my lean body mass but added 5 % BF my TDEE on a sedentary day would almost not bulge , but it would highly increase on day were i'm active because I move all that extra mass .

TL;DR : Fatty use TDEE calculator & put "lightly active" or even "moderately active" when he is in fact a sedentary piece of shit and wonder why CICO doesn't work .