/fitlit/

You seem educated

Who was your favorite philosopher? I'm leaning towards Socrates because he was based af

>went around town arguing with people for fun
>embaressed aristocrats and other important people by making them publicly look like a fool
>Plato became his pupil
>went to court and logicked the fuck out of everyone there
>was sentenced to death by poison cause everyone was sick of his shit
>basically his final words were along the lines of "If I am doomed to hell for how I lived my life, then it should be a far more interesting place than heaven"

Id recommend pic related, pulled me out of a depressive rut and allowed me to rediscover and grab back a bit meaning in my life.

That was my point, all that is good for you and other people are just anchors to the world, to feel belonging, but if someone's world get wrecked, you get completely lonely because people think those anchoring things are far more important and you should "get over it"

For example, most people who lose a parent can be mourning for years, but people expect you to get over it in a week or two, before in Victorian times people mourn their dead for years and did constant rituals to accept it little by little

It's really harsh to lose a loved one or have someone with a terminal illness and your closer friends just talk about how they did whatever vain bullshit to you and don't even care about talking who was that person or anything at all, and if you ask for help they throw stupid bullshit like you should get over it or that life goes on (and by life they are talking about how difficult is to choose where to go to vacations, they actually mean THEIR life goes on).

Why should I care so much about being a good citizen and a good natured man? Just fuck all of them in the ass, I actually feel better crying and getting enraged about my problems rather than avoiding all the pain in shitty vain endeavours. Before people used to be much different about it because death was fucking everywhere

That's why im also against rehashing old philosophies, you simply can't, Hegel would say that the historical context is just different in the history of philosophy, even terms like "nature" are so fucking changed through history that speaking about the nature of man in Epictetus times is completely different than now

Is it bad to dislike people?
i have my mind set that 99% of people are shit and time and time again they prove me right.
I want to be a good person but being indifferent/bad just seems so easier and care free.

i'm angry at a lot of things i guess it all accumulated.
I'm angry and other people because they are inconsiderate assholes and usually just bad people overall.
I'm angry at the universe because the cards i got played are quite shit.
And i'm angry at myself for not being the best at things i like and the thought that "there will always be someone better" makes me really sad.
Another reason i'm angry at myself is because i have some traits that i am unhappy with and it is really hard to get rid of them.

you don't owe people anything as long as you do not oppress them and you don't let them oppress you. remember the golden rule

>they actually mean THEIR life goes on

this really made me feel

You are a fag

You interested? ;^)

>Is it bad to dislike people?
not exactly?

>i have my mind set that 99% of people are shit and time and time again they prove me right.
desu you're probably looking for evidence of their shittiness considering your mindset

>I want to be a good person but being indifferent/bad just seems so easier and care free.
of course it is easier to be indifferent than to be """"""""'bad""""""""' or """""""""""""""""'good"""""""""""""'

I make the effort to act in a way I consider good (which is really just the way I've learned/been taught to believe is good) because it makes ME feel good, my good actions are a purely selfish desire and there is nothing wrong with that, it doesn't matter if you help a guy with a flat tire because of selfish or selfless kindness, the guy still gets help

what do i do with the "root problems" oh great philosopher

Take a leap of faith, perhaps off of a bridge.

same desu
what's your native language?

>And i'm angry at myself for not being the best at things i like and the thought that "there will always be someone better" makes me really sad.

I read 'The life and times of Sonny Barger and the Hell's angels' in my early 20s.

I had loads of problems, and some were random chance unavoidable bullshit, and it helped me realise some things I could do to take responsibility, even if I didn't like them. It's not psychology but he makes some real arguments for the realities of life.

I ended up quitting/deliberately getting fired from a shitty job I shouldn't have been working and was better than and ended up starting an online business everyone I know would have advised me against pursuing. I did it silently and sold my shitbox car to fund it while taking my ex employer to work tribunal for missing wages while they paid me on the sick to do so. Sure I guaranteed my getting fired, but I got 8 weeks sick pay while starting my business, won my lost wages, had cash from selling my car I couldn't repair/mot/insure due to not being paid. That book was the turning point where I said fuck it and no longer took shit from anyone. I'm not working 15 hours overtime on top of 40 hours to get paid for 25hours work. I'd still be fighting for my 3 months short paycheques in that shitty job today had I not read that book.

Some of the stuff in the book for example like 'mess with one of us mess with all of us, and better hope none of us mess with you, even if were wrong' sure morally it's wrong but practically it works and when you realise this you can apply it to 'inconsiderate assholes'. Why the fuck should any asshole be considerate to your needs and why would you ever expect them too. Maybe you should be angry. But maybe acting on that anger is morally right but practically gonna land you in shit. So what you gonna do different next time to prevent from being in this situation again... And how you gonna carry yourself to get what's yours.

The serenity prayer helps me even though I'm not religious it's still wise

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and wisdom to know the difference.

Even if you were perfect the love people will give you is just vain

The only unconditional love you will get is from your closer ones, and for that you don't need to be the best at vain shit, just the best for them

I actually became fit to feel the love of the people, to feel accepted, after a while i realized the only love i would get in my life were from my parents and my sibling, then after some months my father had a stroke. Then I realized people care far less than you imagine and even if you were fucking Brad Pitt the feel of loss is only yours and no one knows o cares about your life at all, just your public persona.

existentialism helped you with depression?

Who else honestly?

So far Marcus. I'm actually quite poorly educated in regard to philosophy because I didn't read enough when I was younger. Got the recommendation to read Meditations from some friends but the ideas in it just mesh with my who I already am as a person. Moving onto Last Days of Socrates next.

Been trudging through this from an unbiased standpoint and honestly this verbose piece of shit makes a few good points also it's got a sick cunt on the front lifting so 10/10

Forgot pic

stay beta

lithuanian

You might shop around for different translations, some are easier to understand than others

It's incredibly selfish for you to think that nobody else hurts from losing someone close to them. And do not underestimate the difficulty in consoling someone who is greatly suffering in grief. Understand that everyone faces death eventually, some sooner and some later because life is merely a game of chance. You too will one day die. Feel free to mourn the passing of a loved one in however eases you most, but take solace in how they affected your life and will always be in your memory and heart.

>2000+-year-old philosophical tradition followed by some of history's greatest people
>They just didn't experience anything sad so they don't get it

You don't have to care too much for strangers, some gesture of friendly intention, a greeting is enough to brighten someone's mood.

First, you can't get what they meant with all they said, because time has changed and meanings of words are completely different, even translations can fuck up the original meaning

Epictetus probably would argue you to shit for using a cantonese computer anonymous image forum as escapism, for example

Jesus you're stupid AND conceited. Tell me user, do you even know who Marcus Aurelius was? What his era was like and how the culture of the time influenced his writings? You think the last great emperor of Rome was just lacking in fucking life experience and never experienced loss?

i've accepted the fact that i should live for myself, i'm a social autist and i came to accept it last friday at a party.
I'm not looking for love , i wanna be the best person i can be.

Is this a good list? All sounds pretty interesting. I want to get into reading and i'm trying to find something to inspire me. I started with the greeks but I can't get into greek mythology too much.

Believe me, in the first world, if you have lost a very closed one before your 30+, then you are one of the few ones

I was speaking of using a old philosophy done in a completely different time and applying as motivation for going to the gym or whatever

You can repeat every word you read from Epictetus or Marcus Aurelius teachings, but you will never understand unless you were in their shoes or you had experienced for yourself, actually it can do yourself more harm than good, because you will think you are pretty tough for being a stoicist then something arrives and you realize you need the experience first

I bet no one will be able to comprehend how much of a loss Rome suffered after every parent in the city loss their children after Cannae, it would be completely moronic to think that just reading one of the experiences of one of those parents can prepare you to it.

Also we live in a complete different era so using old philosophies to comfort yourself without researching how they lived and what they meant by some words is completely unhonest intellectual endeavor

Fucking this. I've come to realize that most people don't give a shit about you, and that more often than not, they are using you for their own self-gain. So, I think it's totally appropriate to use others to your advantage as well, but within reason of course. Never use your family and close friends though, that's just shitty.
>I'm not looking for love , i wanna be the best person i can be.
That sounds like me too user. I wish you the best man. Let's all be better than these fucking normies.

Yeah, adding to it, my point in the last paragraph was that i would gadly take any time i used to feel accepted by others in just seeing another movie or doing another thing with my dad, it's insane how much time you waste into literally who instead of investing it with people that loves you unconditionally and will always do

I actually felt this not too long ago as well. I tried "going out with friends" for the first time in my life, and I absolutely hated it. Most of them were just self-absorbed assholes, and the rest just didn't give a shit and made no effort to make the experience enjoyable for everyone. Like, I was actually pissed off afterwards, because I could have used that time to like you said, spend some time with someone who truly means a lot to me, or improve myself.

>because you will think you are pretty tough for being a stoicist then something arrives and you realize you need the experience first
What's the alternative? Living life with a philosophy of nihilism and being completely crushed when something like that does happen to you?

The philosophy we have and act out is what gives us the tools to deal with what we encounter in life. Perhaps if you lived your life with a certain philosophy you wouldn't be so completely overwhelmed when such events happen to you.

I don't understand why you're treating such teachings as being completely useless, especially when you don't seem to propose an alternative that will do anyone any good.

>implying socrates was a real person and not a character made up by Plato

Obligatory fitlit
>Seneca
>iliad
>Marcus Aurelius
>Dostoevsky's works

>Be reading plato
>socrates starts talking
>le edgy comment and obvious arguments
>never argues with chad

Socrates was beta

I actually giving an alternative, that is living life as passionately as you could, i bet old stoicists also lived like that, it's really difficult to see how someone lived by their writings. It also depends on how you see stoicism really, because some people think being a stoicist means being a fucking clint eastwood in a western movie

Schopenhauer is the most nihilistic writer you can find but he was also a party-goer and always had a good group of close friends. Nietzsche was one of the most passionated writers, but he was secluded as fuck and never could develop deep relationships

Given the current epidemic of fentanyl overdoses in North America, you are in fact in a common group of people who have lost loved ones before the age of 30+.

Like children who watched their parents die as they slipped into a coma and perish. Or parents watching the lives of their children disintegrate before finally becoming snuffed out. Or friends watching the death rattle of old friends who faded away from their lives because of drugs.

Or perhaps the 1.3 million car accidents that cause people to die every year. Of these, each year nearly 400,000 people under 25 are the dead.

You also forget, that each death is like a ripple. It affects not just you but dozens upon dozens of people.

Since you reject all old philosophies and seem to advocate nihilism, then you must realize that philosophy of nihilism requires to find your own comfort and reason for being without God, without old creeds and without help all on your own. This is an incredibly lonely and for many, terrifying philosophy where you cannot fall back on anything but yourself and forge your own reason to continue living.

Otherwise, the recommended solution in the face of this nihilism is to cease being.

I'm not actually a nihilist, I believe in god, but don't feel ascetism or stoicism is the way to deal with life, i feel stoicism will lead to a lot of regrets later in life

My father was really the typical stoic, and i'm sure he felt that he could have enjoyed life with his loved ones far more. I also was going to the same route, but now i feel living passionately is far more important, if i have to cry or laugh or get enraged by things in life, I will do it because life is only one and all that is in it is only once

EDGY the post

I've had people within my immediate family die, and close people i considered brothers kill themselves while I was in the military. You miss the whole point of stoicism with your 2 edgy misanthropic "Rick and Morty" tier nihilism. Its the idea that all life follows natural law, and that good times and bad times are part of this natural order. Don't try to fight nature, instead live within it to the best of your ability. Yes, life can be shit, become better.

The point is that stoicism can actually make the good things be none and the bad things still be there

Try the Greg Hayes translation. A little more modern and I quite enjoy it.

I love Meditations. If all you're getting is to not have negative emotions, you aren't quite grasping everything he's saying. it's not to avoid negativity, rather that you need to acknowledge that there are simply some things you have no control over. You can get angry or frustrated and fight against them, or, feel the emotion, acknowledge it, and let it pass, not letting the anger determine your actions.

Marcus Aurelius is fuggin based.

The point of stoicism is to be able to control the only think that can be controlled within our human state; our own minds. Whether you wish to induce pain over positivity or resilience is up to you

Ah, my apologies then. It was just incredibly hard to figure out what exactly you advocate as the ideal life philosophy. It sounded incredibly nihilistic.

And for those who advocate the ideal for Veeky Forums is stoicism, you should read the common criticism of stoicism and rethink hard if it is truly the life philosophy you advocate for all. There is a fatalism and 'rationalism' in Stoicism that I find extremely hard to swallow. Or the blunting of emotion in life which sounds incredibly unhealthy.

That all that happens is part of some divine plan or truth, that to resist it is pointless. You must believe it was a part of the divine logos. Which is not rational but rather a statement of faith. Passion and emotion are inherently bad, so what about happiness for another? Mercy or pity? Are these inherently bad and to be avoided through suppression? Sounds like a recipe to become apathetic, indifferent and lonely.

Currently reading On The Hieghts of Despair. Highly recommend

user I am sorry that you've experienced loss but I urge you to abandon your perspective on the world. Nihilism is inherently lazy and dangerous. You're definitely not the first person to realize life is shit, all the greatest religions and philosophies promise this. What you must do is find meaning in this suffering so when tragedy comes, and it is promised to come, you will be prepared to face it and come out alive. hold the line or live in agony user, it's your choice.

That literally the exact opposite of what stoicism is. Its all about ignoring the bad.

That's just your interpretation, there are other interpretations of stoicism that favor asceticism, renunciation, hedonism, etc

Passion and emotion aren't inherently bad, to love your neighbor as yourself you first need to live with passion for life and death

Actual Existentialism and what pseuds think existentialism is are very different beasts.

You seriously can't reason out your own path in life? You need to do what some old geezer tells you to do?

Envy is your problem. Envy will turn a perfectly happy life into a nightmare. People around you delude themselves into being satisfied with their own idea of success to cope with not being the best, and it is sickening to see, because they CARE what others think about their success. So if other people piss you off, the key to happiness is to stop surrounding yourself with people. Shrink the pond, you are the biggest fish in a population of one. And even though you'll be a pathetic failure in the eyes of others, you won't care, and you will own your life. Until you realize you wasted your prime years as a hermit, but doesn't it help knowing you're choosing to be unhappy because you're afraid of uncertainty?