Water Fast update

>telling anyone, especially your family, that you're fasting.

You don't tell people you fasted until all the weight is off and you've kept it off. You only discuss it with like-minded people.

I train people for weight loss with fasting and the first thing I drill into their heads is:
>The first rule of fasting is you don't talk about fasting.
>The second rule of faasting is YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT FASTING.

I generally work with people that fall into the Obesity Class 1 & 2 range. These people have health complications of all sorts and I ensure they have a full workup done to get a baseline and get everything documented.

They get a diary to keep track of stuff from day to day where we mark up their fasting schedule and target workouts so we can track everything including day to day weight.

Only after they lose the weight and see the health benefits are they supposed to tell anyone that they fasted. Up until that point they only say they're eating a "healthy diet" and "watching their calories".

Every time you tell someone you're fasting they come at you with bullshit rhetoric that they just regurgitate because "muh nutrition". And all it does is eat away at your willpower from lack of support. If you tell people you're going to exercise more and go on the meditaranean diet they immediately congratulate you and support you. But they find out you're fasting and you need to be saved and told that you're wrong and going to fail.

2 weeks of fasting isn't that big of a deal and can be undertaken by anyone with enough body fat without concern.

I limit people to 2 week fasts because longer term than that you start to run into mineral imbalance issues and the risk of refeeding syndrome begins to climb.

For the orbese and overweight I put them on a 2 week fast 2 week re-feed cycle until all symptoms of metabolic syndrome are gone during the second week of a refeed window.

i.e. well controlled blood sugar less than 100 in the morning after waking, A1c in the normal range, good blood pressure, and decent cholesterol numbers.

Once these markers are all normal then we go to IF 16:8 and include 1 or 2 days of fasting per week.

If the person wants to keep utilizing the 2 week fasts to speed up weight loss then we keep using it. about 50:50 want to keep doing the 2 week fasts and not.

>drinking only water for days straight
>deliberately
Listen, motherfucker. I'm glad you're okay, but you need to know this behavior is stupid. You need calories. Your brain needs sugar in order to function. You'll literally fucking die if your blood sugar drops far enough. Your body performs countless enzymatic reactions and sustains tons of microscopic damage every day. You need protein as a result. Fucking amino acids. You need them. Not just to build muscle, but to maintain every last fiber of your fucking being, and to carry out chemical reactions that your body needs to carry out whether you lift or not. You need vitamins and minerals. Your hair needs them. Your blood needs them. Your skin and nails and bones and nerves and muscles need them. People develop health problems by not getting just ONE innocuous little nutrient like vitamin C or some shit, and you excluded every single one of them for an extended period of time. For every last material that your body needs to replace the bits lost to your ceaseless push against entropy and decay, you were just like, "Fuck it, don't need that."
Your glycogen stores? They only go so far. Your body has to burn SOMETHING in order to keep going. You're an energetic being. You need fuel. That fire can't go out, because if it does once, that's it. Your body will burn its own fucking flesh for fuel in order to keep your life going. You're eating your own fucking muscles and organs in order to keep your brain activity going after a while.
I don't know where you got the idea that this is a good plan. You're not cleaning out the system, you're just starving the flame. Eat. You can't possibly feel good. Please, be honest with yourself. It's okay to be hungry. Your poor digestive system is affected negatively by stunts like this, and it'll be harder to get back on track. No fast should involve only water for says straight. Eat last eat once or twice a day or have some snacks or some shit if you're gonna fast. ZERO nutrients.

Progress pics?

wow dude 20 lbs in 18 days, sounds really healthy to me. fucking retards on this board man.

Fugg, wrote a thesis on OPs 18 day fast.

Would you recommend waiting until I have time off from uni when I try this? I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up with my studies. I've found when I haven't eaten all day I get light headed, irritable and unable to focus

>You need calories.
body fat has 3500 calories per pound
>Your brain needs sugar in order to function.
The brain actually works just fine on ketones, and there is evidence to support the theory that it works better on ketones than carbs becase there's less metabolic by-products intracellularly from ketone utilization over carbs.
>You'll literally fucking die if your blood sugar drops far enough.
Gluconeogenesis. As the three fatty acids are cleaved off of the glycerin backbone of the triGLYCERIDE, the body converts that glycerine into sugar. More than enough to cover the primal lizard portion of the brain that actually needs carbs.

Hey man sound like you know stuff so can you tell me if eating 1400 to 1500 calories a day for 176cm 81kg male is too low or will run in to any problems with stalling? Want to get to around 75 in a few months

>Your glycogen stores? They only go so far. Your body has to burn SOMETHING in order to keep going.
Fat->triglycerides->fatty acids and glycerine->ketones and glucose.
i.e. fuel
You need fuel.
body fat
>burning muscles
fasting for short durations is very muscle sparring and HGH actually increases significantly during the entire fast.

Check it out, fucko. 20 pounds of weight is not healthy to lose in such a short span of time. You're going for pounds and half-pounds of weight loss/gain every week or two. Maybe two pounds. 20 pounds of weight loss that fast is something you see when people develop eating disorders or get antibiotic-resistant infections and shit themselves half to death. You're making progress the way a homeless waif with dysentery in the slums of Dubai is making progress. This is extreme.

None of that shit comes ex nihilo, brah. OP can't be in such urgent need of weight loss that this drastic measure makes sense, and there's surgery for it if he is.

If you get irritable from lack of eating then this means you're pretty damn carb dependant.

In a bunch of the cases I've helped with they were college students or worked in mentally taxing jobs. In these cases I transitioned them into my 'perimeter diet' for a few weeks eating ad libitum.

After this dietary transition period I'll introduce them to the 16:8 window which can usually be worked around work and school easily. This introduction of fasting will start to ease the body into getting familiar with the fat metabolism and start getting the mitochondria primed

Then a month after the dietary transition we'll start with 1 fasting day per week for two weeks. Then increase it to 2 consecutive days.

For those super concerned about mental performance we'll stay there at the two consecutive days for the duration. But a few have gone and went on the extended fast cycles.

The first extended fast is going to be difficult regardless. But by slowly introducing aspects of fasting and the dietary changes to support it, you'll have less of a brain fog during the fast.

after your first full 2 week fast you'll have no problem dropping in and out of fasting schedules at will. I will qualify this by saying as long as you avoid high carb diets during your re-feeding windows.

damn sure looks like /r/fitness in here
grats on the fast OP, have fun with the explosive diarrhea

>brain functions tangibly worse
>feel like shit
>nah brah you're just not starving yourself hard enough you'll get used to it
>carbohydrates have tricked your brain
You have got to be out of your mind.

...

yea and he's dead now nice argument retard

You do realize that if you've never starved or been in a ketogenic state for and extended period of time that the mitochondria are simply not primed for ketogenesis right?

Fatty acids are broken down through acetyl-coa and into ketones inside the mitochondria. If you've hadd no epigentic pressure on the mitochondria to build and fortify these pathways then they'll be horribly underequipped to deal with this new energy demand.

HENCE, the brain fog.

Once you've entered sustained ketosis or extended fasting/starvation, then the machinery to process ketones for the TCA gets stronger and the brain fog disappears.

Furthermore. Ketones produce less oxidative free radicals per TCA cycle than glucose meaning there's less mopping up for the body to do and less oxidative stress on the organelles.

But you're right
>muh carbs

Let me ask you something; you will quit your hunger strike eventually, right?
And what that happens, you are aware that you will gain all the weight back, UNLESS you have a healthier diet then before?
So my question is, why don't you quit your waterfast right now, start eating clean right now and hit the gym?
You will EASILY gain muscle and lose fat at the same time

Did you bet $1000 with your peers that you could go down to 220 by Christmas or something? Why the rush? "Slow and steady" didn't elect Jeb Bush, but it certainly applies to fitness and bodybuilding

>and he's dead now
not of his fast though, sorry

not OP but increased autophagy (e.g. less loose skin and other potential health benefits) and equivalent or better muscle sparing than a moderate calorie reduction
extended fasting is retarded if you're trying to cut from 15-12% but there's plenty of evidence it works well for obese people

In english please?

...

tl;dr:

> I have a weak will, which means I lack the self-discipline to change my lifestyle.

> For this reason I thought that a on-off 18 day fast would solve all my problems.

> I have so weak will that I've let my family convince me to stop even though there were no issues to speak of.

Listen OP. Get back to fasting and forget your family. It's a shit way to lose weight, but it's better than doing jack shit, since your lack of will will hardly make you change your life-style. Make sure you take some sort of vitamin supplement tho.

18 days is nothing. One of the medical treatments for depression and other psychiatric disorders that was used before anti-depressants and fancy anti-psychotics was 30 day fast, with follow-up 30 day strict diet to restart digestion. You did half of that.

You don't necessarily have to do the whole 30 days, but at least take this time to prepare a new meal plan for yourself. Lean, healthy and calorie deficient. Starting from literal point 0 means you can ease into the new diet. I.e.: if I am lazy not to prepare a healthy meal, I fast. That's as good of a motivator as any.

>tl;dr im retarded

lol puto

>My entire family was getting really worried for me and my uncle lectured me for a whole 20 minutes why I should stop it.

This is the same man who molested you right?

>fatty giving others advice
kek

>not OP
>Every time you tell someone you're fasting they come at you with bullshit rhetoric that they just regurgitate because "muh nutrition"
Whatever you do when you fast or diet, the social pressure is intense. If my family would support me doing so and not nag me for shit and giggles I would not be so unmotivated.
Everytime you try to better yourself people will try to put you down because you improving implies the following
>They have to get better too
>You the lesser person can't get better than them
>they are not keen to change for the better
>you getting better puts them out of their confort zone
>They are jealous of your success
>They don't want you to succeed but rather to fail

>18 days without eating is nothing

no point, still look like fat shit.
Only difference is that all my pants are constantly falling.

I did it but its pretty dumb in all honesty. Fasting is essentially ketosis and an extreme calorie deficit. You can achieve the same thing eating 800 calories a day with absolutely no carbs.

I already quit it, read the OP. Now im doing ketosis diet 800 calories a day since its more sensible with essentially the exact same results.

>no point, still look like fat shit.
>Only difference is that all my pants are constantly falling.
Awesome job! That's a decent fucking milestone when you realize your clothes are no longer fitting.
>I did it but its pretty dumb in all honesty. >Fasting is essentially ketosis and an extreme calorie deficit. You can achieve the same thing eating 800 calories a day with absolutely no carbs.
They've got some metabolic overlap but they're not even close to being the same. Eating such a restrictive diet prevents autophagy, slows the metabolism, has higher levels of 24hr insulin load, and doesn't come anywhere close to fulfilling the satiety response.

a guy that's never fasted in his life

Feels good Not being fat, cant wait for someone to mix this meme with dnp and instantly die

>"Slow and steady" didn't elect Jeb Bush, but it certainly applies to fitness and bodybuilding

my new favorite quote by user kek

Could you be a bit more specific.
Are you saying the 800 calories is worse to do than the fasting

>half-pounds of weight loss every two weeks

That's exactly what I'm saying. It is proven many times over that not only during the course of, but for many weeks or even months after a daily calorie restricted diet that baseline metabolism is slowed significantly.

Repeated surveys of individuals on calorie restricted diets report all sorts of signals of metabolic depression from lethargy to feeling cold even in warm rooms, and all the way to mental depression.

Within the studies that compare these diets to similar fasting schedules that result in the same caloric restriction over time, respondents either do not report these same symptoms or report that they were significantly less impactful than the daily calorie restriction diet.

i.e. Following the typical -500 calorie deficit diet participants experience the decreased metabolism, and physical side effects from that decrease. But patients who were told to simply not eat one day a week experienced the same if not better weight loss with less side effects and no decrease in metabolism.

I actually had a friend who came to me for weight loss help with fasting. He brought up DNP, and from the way he was talking at the time I was pretty sure he'd been browsing this fucking forum when DNP was the hot topic and Zyzz was shilling it pretty hard.

At this time I'd already helped maybe 8 people lose a Subaru's weight in fat. And he kept asking if DNP would help speed it up. No matter how much I tried to dissuade him of the dangers associated with it he kept pushing it.

After the second 2 week cycle of fasting his weight loss was adding up to an excess of 1200 calories a day. I told him I wasn't working with him anymore as long as he kept doing that shit.

A week later he was in the hospital with a runaway fever, liver enzymes off the chart and renal failure. Supposedly he was only taking 500mg/day. But I dunno about all that. According to his mother it was so bad they put him on dialysis for the kidney failure and to pump the return blood through a bucket of icewater to try and help bring his core temperature down.

>family goblin'd your gainz
That's normal in my case, too.

this reminds me of that fat girl from tumblr that was gonna go on diet but stopped after 2 days, still claiming "i could do it if i wanna do"

Did the studies account for people that had been fasting for extended period of time before that?

What if you split up your meals into 6 across the day and worked out?

Post studies

OP are you going to give us an update in another 25 days when you put it all back on and then some?

>Did the studies account for people that had been fasting for extended period of time before that?
The studies I'm aware of took patients who had not been on any specialized diet for a period of time prior to the investigation. And if I recall correctly one was a crossover in which participants were switched from one to the other.

>What if you split up your meals into 6 across the day and worked out?
>worked out
Even when you're engaging in a fasting regimen for weight loss you should still be exercising. Personally when helping people lose weight with fasting we limit exercise during the extended fasting periods to light calisthenics and plenty of aerobic work; walking, jogging, cycling to and from work, etc. All of which serves the purpose of depleting glycogen and glucose in the body to bring that insulin down and ramp up ketosis.

During feeding periods we'll switch over to weighted exercises to failure.

(cont)
>6 meals a day
This is the most asinine thing that has ever come up in the dietary world.
>"eat smaller portioned meals spaced evenly throughout the waking day to keep your blood sugar level and hunger under control"
This logic completely ignores the underlying metabolism of food energy and hormonal signaling that goes in in the body.

The first thing we'll start with is the idea of keeping the blood sugar level.
The high end of the normal blood sugar range is 100mg/dl and we have about 5liters of blood which means the NORMAL amount of sugar in the blood is only 5 grams of glucose. This whole premise comes from the idea of preventing sugar crashes by dividing the massive sugar consumption that the average westerner consumes into smaller doses the body can handle without crashing.

Where this falls flat is that fat cells are only capable of moving fat in one direction at a time. when our blood sugar goes too high the liver starts converting that glucose into fatty acids for storage. If you're spiking your blood sugar 6 times a day you're constantly storing energy away from buffering your blood sugar. But just as the body starts gearing up 2 hours later to turn the fat conveyor the other way you're stuffing more sugar into the blood.

This is where we see the benefit for the various fasting regimen. 16:8 for example gives you an 8 hour eating window to get your nutrition and calories, and leaves you a nominal 16 hours of fat utilization.

short term fasting periods like 1 or 2 days a week result in increased fat utilization while keeping you from experiencing total glycogen depletion.

Extended fasting periods 3 consecutive days or longer give you the fat metabolism of the other methods but throw in total glycogen depletion ncrease epigenetic pressure on strengthening the aerobic mitochondrial utilization of fatty acids.

(cont)

Furthermore the super prevelance of refined and processed carbohyrates in our modern diets is unheard of in our history taxing our insulin systems to the point that we have higher levels of baseline 24hr insulin load. And 24hr total insulin is strongly linked with excess fat retention.

Higher levels of insulin also interfere with Leptin's role in the brain in appetite suppression and it's upregulation of the central nervous system (read as: increased metabolism)

Finally, the idea of more frequent smaller meals spread out throughout the day is even more preposterous considering that the calories in these 6 smaller meals aren't sufficient enough to trigger the stomach and gut's own signalling hormones for satiety. If your brain never receives that satiety signal then you won't ever trigger that cascade of biological events that lead to feeling fulfilled.

Ill give you an update in a month when I lose another 10 - 15 pounds.