ITT: we leave behind the SS and SL meme and discuss proper begginner routines >ICF a little better than typical 5x5 because there are mandatory accessory lifts from the beginning. >GZCL very good, a bit of confusing for most beginners but with a bit of research one of your best shots >Candito If your goal is strenght that's your best shot >Alpha-Destiny If you don't give a shit about being good in the traditional variations of the lifts that's your shot
t. former victim of SL who started to make serious gains when moved to PPL (but going 5x per week to the gym is not good for beginners)
Thats really a good idea but why no scooby? ICF,GZCL,Candito, what is it?
Dylan Wright
What about Greyskull LP?
Ryder Hughes
>no scooby because he's a broscience faggot >what is x just google user those are different routines not the standard SS meme
Robert Rodriguez
a bit better, a well-used template is somewhere on ICF level, not the best choice but still simple enough to work. The thing I like about Greyskull is how it puts emphasis on the upper body (which is more desirable for most guys than lower body), and their use of AMRAP. But the proggression is still the best in my opinion on GZCL
Leo Stewart
As long as you do 3x5 for everything but the deadlift, which is 1x5, progress in weight, and hit the squat/deadlift/bench/OHP 1.5 times per week, the program is fine
But once your form is smooth, strong and confident among all four of those, you can should and must go to something with more volume
Also SL is garbage, so are all PPL routines
Jonathan Martin
the thing is that if you're consistent with your routine as a noob you will progress on literaly everything, even the stupidest brosplits from a retarded PT will give some results. But why waste your time on weaker programs, that also will make it harder for you to transfer to better ones (doing only 3/5x5 makes really hard to get used to 3x8-12 or 5x10-20)? >PPL is shit it's very good but for more intermediate lifters
Jayden Bell
Reddit linear ppl + add in shrugs, ab work, and rear delt flys
Jaxon Roberts
SS is a fine program if you don't do low bar shit squats, olympic presses (they were dropped from the olympics for a reason), and normal conventional diddlylifts, not the high hip retardation Rip has devised.
Jeremiah Lopez
I did reddit PPL with a lot of changes (added floor press on push days, lateral pullover on pull days, changed bench on thursday to paused bench and squat to paused squat on saturday, changed leg press to front squat and bulgarian split squat, added ab work and farmer walks). Really great results but a beginner program with 6 days of training can be a hard thing to be consistent with
Oliver Wilson
PPL is a stupid fad, popularized on the internet
The actual way to program a 3-day is an arnold split philosophy
Chest+Back, Shoulders+Arms, Legs+Abs(if you like)
Alexander Nelson
it's brosplit
Kevin Scott
Speak English
Are you calling an arnold split a brosplit, because that is pretty moronic
Or are you saying a brosplit is the right way to program, but that's also pretty moronic
Joseph Butler
ICF is fucking dogshit because you have all of these useless accessories for a beginner to do after you get done with your main lifts, which make you put less effort into your main lifts because you have umpteen sets of stupid babby lifts to do.
GZCL is not a beginner program you dipshit.
Candito's linear program is a kind of DUP, again, not for beginners.
Dbol destiny's beginner program is dogshit
The best beginner programs are GSLP and SS, bar none.
Michael Lopez
Not OP, but also if anybody follows a program written by Jason Blaha, they're legit mongoloids
Aaron Campbell
Ah yes. Using a roiders program will surely work with natties!
>back and shoulders split Absolutely fucking retarded. Enjoy your no rear delt.
Cameron Bennett
>Eat plenty of protein and calories >sleep 8 hours every single day >only do dumbbell upper body exercises two or three times per week >walk to class and the gym and everywhere else >be fit by normie standards
There ya go
Ayden Hughes
Agreed. PPL is just reddit tier faggotry that fails to hypertrophy muscle due to insufficient work because muh two compound movements per workout. Only reason redditlifters do that shit is because they think they're too intelligent for bro splits despite the biggest motherfuckers understanding that targeting and overloading specific muscle groups is what leads to muscle synthesis which they deride as brosplits despite these faggots having diminutive arms and mediocre lifts... at least they aren't gym bros and squat atg amirite.
Strength is proportionate to muscle cross sectional area. AlphaDestiny is 100% correct in saying concurrent periodisation is necessary for maximum muscle growth and long term strength gains before the inevitable plateau.
My routine is Legs: Back Squats Hip thrusts Leg press Leg curl Leg extension Calf raises BW lunges Chest and Arms: Tricep Pushdowns 21s DB Bench press DB Decline Standing DB curls Incline flies Incline bench Concentration curls Overhead triceps extension Back and shoulders: SLDLs OHP T Bar row CG Cable row Lat pull downs Rear delt machine flies Lateral Raises Facepulls Upright Rows Lateral Raises again DB Shoulder press Rack Pulls
I do this routine concurrently periodised going heavier on the strength cycle where I'll do 5x5 on main compounds and 3x10 on accessory and then a rest day then go onto my hypertrophy cycle where i go 60% of 5x5 weight and do 10x10 (except DLs which i keep the same) and either same rep and sets on accessories i go heavy on like t bar rows, leg press, rack pulls or do 3x20 on machines and DB exercises.
Charles Hill
1/2 OP here >advanced program for roiders >good for beginners pick one Blaha is a complete idiot. Still his program is better than SS/SL, it does not say that his program is good, more how SS/SL are fucking bad >by normie standards this equals to dyel the last is the typical SS moron, who does not go further with his research than the sticky >GZCL and Candito are not for beginners keked, for a SS moron any programming that does not go with >put 2,5kg each time you exercise and deload 10% when can't finish the rep is to complicated for their tiny brains and it's the result why they end up with t-rex mode.
Another thing is this stupid thinking that as a novice you don't need ANY accessory lifts. Yeah for the first 3 weeks maybe, but you gonna need something after that, and it can't be something random, it must be based for your needs, or else some of your lifts will stall, and/or your muscle development will stop in some areas. Taking for example me- a person with long legs and arms, and narrow chest- so I'm more limbs dominant. That means my bicep and tricep had developed on SL with no accessory lifts with a pretty good result. But as for back and chest (especially the chest) I had problems. Doing just bench press for your chest (sometimes just one time a week because of the stupid programming) was simply not enough. If you do some research you will see that for many people just bench press will not give good results for your chest. You know what helped me get over my stagnation? Adding more pressing movements (especially floor press), OHP is an another example-BTW it's an accessory lift by itself. If you gonna do one week 2 times 3x5 and the next week 1 time 3x5 don't think you will get any good results. This is a lift that likes higher volume. Also thinking that all of your delts will grow enough just by doing OHP is pure kek. Doing lateral raises is required by ALMOST everyone.
Luis Allen
2/2 And if we're talking about not enough volume to learn properly a lift the deadlift is the ultimate example. 1x5 one time a week. How the fuck are you gonna learn good techinque with so low volume and so high intensity every time you lift? You will propably just snap something, or have problems with stalling when you get a little bit of progress. Don;t fall for this meme that doing more than 1s of DL will make your body totally exhaust itself- well maybe if you're an overweighted victim of SS.
Justin Bennett
First of all, GZCL is a training method, not a program.
Candito himself says that his linear program is not for people new to barbell training.
It's obvious from your posts you've never read SS, and probably don't even have a 1000lb total.
Jack Hall
>First of all, GZCL is a training method, not a program. so is GSLP, your point is? If you don't want to program by yourself there are over 9000 ready programs made by people, just fucking do some research and stop being a baby that needs to be spoonfed >Candito himself says that his linear program is not for people new to barbell training. where exactly? asking from curiosity bc seriously don't knew that. Still, he has a novice program on his site. >It's obvious from your posts you've never read SS no i didn't, but I did read for example The Science of Lifting by Greg Nuckols and Scientific Priciples of Strenght Training by Mike Israetel. I consider them a better source of knowledge than Rippletits. I would say that SS is the only book about lifting that you've read since you're treating it like the Bible of strenght training. >and probably don't even have a 1000lb total. I'm not american so I don't know how much this is, and I'm too lazy to check, but my total in kg would be something like 420 kg, the worst of course with my bench that sucks because of doing SL as my first program. Also treating your one rep maxes as an indicator of your knowledge is really fucking stupid, something like thinking a big guy (inb4 Bane) knows the most about lifting because he's big, I got guys in my hood benching 160kg for reps with very poor form, but good genetics.
Nathaniel James
I've been following a 3 day a week meme routine that's supposedly designed for skinnyfats. Still making noob gains though but I might switch to something after that runs out.
Jason White
Did anyone tried out the Alpha-Destiny novice program?
Cameron Ross
Can someone give me a non-meme answer as to why 5x5 SL is bad for a beginner ?
Jack Long
push yourself to the max brah whatever it takes
Leo Gomez
No accessory work, no work capacity, inefficient hypertrophy
Adam Cruz
This thread has failed to arrive at even one good beginner program
okay, so I wanna get aesthetic again. Haven't lifted for a year, picked up SL again and am willing to change. To what program?
Charles Long
If I would recommend a beginner a program I would personally choose gzcl
Dominic Rogers
ICF helped me learn the lifts, and gave quick results (as long as I ate a lot). I quit after a couple of months, but I think it was a pretty good beginner program.
Owen Jones
Why do so many beginner programs recommend 5x5 instead of 3x8?
Also I signed up for a gym membership that came with a free PT appointment and she said I should be going to failure every set. From everything I've read online that seems incorrect. She also seems stupid in other facets.
Carter Wood
Blaha pls go loose some weight
Jaxon Powell
SS isn't a meme though
Ayden White
What about this 4-4-8 program? Some people said some nice things about it in one thread but I've never seen it mentioned again. I wasn't memed, was I?
Colton Reed
>PT >she here's two reasons why she sounds stupid for your question is because most beginner routines focus on building strenght and 3x5 or 5x5 is a good rep range for this (3x8-12 is more for hypertrophy and 15-20 reps are more for endurance- that doesn not mean that the first rep range won't build mass, or that the third won't build up strenght etc. it's just that some rep ranges are more efficient for some goals than others). And yeah going to failure on every set as a beginner is stupid as fuck
Daniel Nguyen
please nobody do this routine. jesus fuck paul wade is a retard
Hudson Cruz
explain?
Liam Morales
we can start with the fact that there are no weights used on that program
Charles Allen
3 months in, I have seen decent progress on PPL. My diet is okay too.
I've been changing up biceps because I don't think the program focuses on it too much. My triceps have made more progress
Andrew Collins
this whole thread is DYELs giving each other advice to get nowhere. what the actual fuck is this trash.
Owen Sullivan
Thanks man I got really demotivated after hearing her say that basically everything I've read on the Veeky Forums wiki was incorrect. she cucked me into booking another appointment but I'm gonna cancel it.
Anthony Russell
most PT are shit especially woman- they don't know how to gain muscle as a man. As bad as Veeky Forums might be, it's still better than most PTs strongerbyscience.com/training-to-failure-or-just-training-to-fail/ here's a good article about it so mister olympia pls give us some actual advice
Jason Diaz
SS is pretty fucking solid. SL is too much volume imo, prolly will break you. scooby had a very odd audience and catered to them, but his information was usually valid and scientifically backed. PPL is great if youre eating like a pig and just getting in lots of volume. training a muscle group only once a week is pretty stupid unless youre /fraud/
Asher Parker
Im a beginner and i made relatively impressive progress with scooby.
Sebastian Martinez
Is a program really necessary if you know what you want and are doing though beginner?
Angel Wright
what are scientific benefits of sk8board squats?
Nathan Thompson
SS is a perfectly fine beginner program, there are accessories laid out for the beginner to do once they need them and to progress with them.
Go read SS, it's well worth the read.
Also you're in no position to give advice with your piss weak lifts.
Mason Smith
Why can't you acknowledge that there are better programs for beginners and just shove up the ss meme? You don't even adress my arguments just go uuu there are accessory lifts and you are weak so have no points!!!1111
Julian Robinson
You didn't make any points.
My argument is that by not reading SS you can't comment on whether or not it is a good beginner program. Since you clearly have not, you cannot comment on it.
Like did you know that when you start SS you are deadlifting every day in the gym?
Or Rippetoe gives you accessories to do once you're progression is beginning to stall?
Or that Rippetoe even recommends ways to increase volume on the main lifts?
It's bar none the best beginner program. After not doing it then reading the book later I wish I would have done it.
Joshua Rivera
Honestly, if you haven't practiced the major compound exercises before, sets of 5 are kind of retarded - you don't get near enough practice, and you're working at a high % of 1RM. That is a recipe for snap city. Most personal training/strength coach textbooks recommend 12-15 reps for beginners for a reason. Going to failure every time isn't that bad if it's on high volume sets, but repeated failure on anything less than 12 reps is going to fuck you up in the long run.
Nathan Davis
not op but nice reddit spacing faggot
Jordan Garcia
What does Veeky Forums feel about this program, Jim Wendler's 5/3/1? reddit.com/r/Fitness/wiki/531-beginners Squats deadlift bench press and overhead press with 50 push ups and 50 pull ups 3 days a week
Christopher Gutierrez
>shit volume >shit frequency >shit intensity >pointless deload week >ripped off of bigger stronger faster
Shit program.
Josiah Gomez
Why are there so many stupid reddit versions of 5/3/1? It's not a beginner program, don't try to make it into one.
Brody Rivera
Garbage for deadlifts
Liam Morales
> 3 months in, I have seen decent > progress on PPL. My diet is okay > too. > > I've been changing up biceps > because I don't think the program > focuses on it too much. My triceps > have made more progress
Sjwoelem
Henry Cook
531 for beginners doesn't include the deload week.
Read the book, there are variations by Wendler himself
If you don't consider Allan Thrall stupid, what do you think about his program vs 531?
Nolan Thomas
other user here As much as I like Alan he is a really shitty lifter (and a big SS fan) >You didn't make any points. how about the things I said about developing all of your delts, stalling on OHP or not being able to learn proper form for DL? >My argument is that by not reading SS you can't comment on whether or not it is a good beginner program. Since you clearly have not, you cannot comment on it. I did SL which is similiar besides SS is forced here for so many years that I know what it's about >Like did you know that when you start SS you are deadlifting every day in the gym? yeah I know, but the crucial part is WHEN YOU START- later it's 1x5 so you get to do one or two sets of deadlift per week which is stupid >Or Rippetoe gives you accessories to do once you're progression is beginning to stall? the emphasis on the accessory is too small, why not have them from the beginning? Don't tell me you don't need them, it's the same bullshit as >don't train your abs bro compound lifts are enough! t. skinnyfat ss t-rex >Or that Rippetoe even recommends ways to increase volume on the main lifts? if he's such a great strenght trainer why didn't he coached any known competitive lifters? Instead we have dinosaurs like Zach or weak lifters like Alan Thrall. >It's bar none the best beginner program. After not doing it then reading the book later I wish I would have done it. and I after reading about other programs I wish I would done them
PS: nice reddit spacing xD
Cooper Rivera
should i add more sets?
John Wright
I'm also doing it, recently changed deadlifts to 3x5 though and cause I'm unable to do even band assisted pull ups after other lifts I do lat pulldowns and some barbell curls for a good measure, though the curls really are just for fun and I think I might be overkilling my biceps. As an accessory I've added cable crunches and adding calf raises.
I have some problems with _x8 days though, extremely difficult for me. Also, I'm going for 5x_ everything, when doing the amrap sets, do you go for 4x_+1xAMRAP or 3x_+AMRAP? I'm starting week 4 on monday btw.
Jackson Myers
This one is pretty good
Parker Parker
here's your (You), mr. Cunningham.
Josiah Reyes
GZCL is top notch plan for beginners and intermediates
Logan Jenkins
Honestly, I just make up my own program. All you have to do is take the 3x5 or 5x5 set/rep scheme and add some accessories to problem areas. Pic related
Tyler Anderson
why do you take the bbc 3 times a week ?
Benjamin Cox
You haven't read SS, and you're small and weak. You shouldn't give advice, presslet.
What's wrong with doing Squats, Bench, Deadlift, Chins, OHP, Rows, and Abs 3x8 3x per week while adding weight in each workout?
Eli Martinez
How does it compare to the others?
Caleb Cooper
>PPL
t. idiot with dog shit lifts who thinks he's in any way, shape or form qualified to offer advice to beginners when he is, in fact, a functionally retarded beginner
Brayden Fisher
>deadlifts 3 times a week
TOOT TOOT, next stop: retard hospital
Parker Thomas
Noobs aren't lifting enough weight for it to be a problem.
Hudson Morris
>bro you need to establish really bad and totally stupid habits early on if you're gonna make it
get a load of THIS moron
Angel King
If I do ICF, can I do accessory lifts on suppose to be rest days?
Isaiah Jackson
>there are little baby men who cant dl three times a week why not just go on oestrogen? its not like chicks are going to want to fuck you
Camden Flores
>do this thing or ur not a real man!!!
gee someone sure is insecure and in need of validation
Luis White
t. weak little bitch who can't even deadlift 225
Luke Torres
SL is a meme, SS is not. Also, you type like a paki,
Brayden Bell
Why don't any of you adress any of my points? Oh yeah because you're a SS faggot >hurr presslet!! yeah I'm a presslet because I wasted my time on SL Both programs are almost the same, as for my poor writting I'm a Pole who's currently learning Dutch so my English got a little rusty
Michael Myers
whats a good routine for fat as fatasses that main goal for the time being is to lose weight?
Grayson Turner
Fork put downs Hour long daily walks Calisthenics
Easton Cruz
You are retard, without speaking about load you can't say is it too much or not. I know qualified coach that think you can do deadlifts 3 times per week while your deadlift is lower than powerlifting 2nd class.
Anthony Russell
wtf r u saying? no. Instead just focus on the compounds and drop some isolations which blaha has said himself. He put the tricep and bicep isos in to "sell" the program to beginners who wouldn't try a program without bicep iso's
Dominic Thomas
he's a SS monkey who believes that if you do more than 2 series of DL per week his mom will get raped by blacks
Grayson Kelly
here the official version
Gavin Cook
>SS is a perfectly fine beginner program It's utter shit for beginners. I wrote about it somewhere that there is similar program in Russia (Faleev's program) and every good coach will say you that minimalism and peaking every session is bad for beginner.
Dylan Diaz
no sorry this
Jeremiah Baker
The main problem with SS/SL is that for those programs the only important thing is how much weight is on your bar. They don't care about other important parts of being an athlete such as >conditioning >bodyweight exercises >volume in training >reducing rest periods What is even more funny is that those programs are not even that good for building strenght- candito or n/suns5/3/1 are much better for this