Is this old colorized photo an approximation of the Aztec capital?
Is this what Tenochtitlan would look like?
Cooper Butler
Grayson Brooks
Xochimilco ttoday around the canals is a lot more rural then Tenochtilan was. So sort of, but less overgrown and more actual streets, buildings, and plazas on thee land. Scott and Stuart gentling have fantastic art of Tenochtitlan and other Aztec sites in their heyday, but their art is hard to find. I have a bunch of it here: pastebin.com
I'll also dump them (some will have to be compressed due to size, though: the pastebin has the originals) /other recreations in the thread, I guess.
Should probably bee a general aztec thread, though
Gavin Martin
Jordan Brooks
Andrew Garcia
Jeremiah Baker
Please do, so general Aztec aesthetic thread.
Henry Barnes
Adam Howard
Adam Evans
Jose Martinez
Hunter Morgan
Noah Scott
This is from Tlatelolco, but by the tiime Tenochtitlan conquered it, the two cities had grown into each other due to the chinampas built to expand the islands they were on meeting each other, so it was basically one city (though with some admiinstrative quirks) from that point on
Chase Wood
Jayden Hall
apparently this is of a noble resort outside of tenochtitlan, but eh
Christopher Rivera
woah I have seen this design from the walls before!
This is an old photo of the Cempoala city from the time of the conquest, sadly the paintings are gone due to neglect.
Nicholas Bell
I have about 46 images of theirs.
Joshua Myers
Likewise, this was at a fort/military retreat at Malinaco, bordering on the Tarascan empire; not Tenochtiitlan
Jackson Clark
Then I beg of you to make a rar of them and upload it, I am literally potentially going to fly across the country just to take a look at a book of theirs featuring some of their aztec art iin a museum.
Also, please do post a rar, don't imgur them or something, as imgur and most other sites compress the image files. filedropper allows you to upload large files with no account, so use thatif you don't have a dropbox or whatever
Luke Taylor
Oliver Flores
James Lopez
Also, please say where you got them/where they are from, if you could.
I cannot thank you enough if you do upload those for me, that would seriously make my year so far.
Gabriel Powell
A view at some part of the valley of mexico outside of tenochtitan, not sure where
Jordan Wright
and last one I have.
I'm gonna head to bed, butt i'll check back in tommorow to dump recreations from other artists/ to see if the other user delivered wiith the rar
Mason Roberts
I wonder how or to what extend PTSD affected the people. Not only the warriors going through the actual and the flower wars but also the priests, sacrificing people every day.
Seeing how such behavior was completetly socilized, they couldve seen it as a sign of a blessing or something.
Is there any resarch on that ?
Carson Parker
Are these stark, almost blinding-white stone walls historical? Did they polish the stone or use special coverings?
I don't know if it's 'research' per se, but Zizek has had a few talks about how individuals can interpret divinity within grotesque actions on a massive, societal scale. Nothing specific to the Aztecs, though.
Asher Jenkins
That's Tenochtitlan now... 500 years on and zero evolution.
Noah Sanders
I remember reading years ago about some sacrificial victims were fed very well, and had to learn some chants and do some cemenories before beign killed so I think there were some willing people to die, as modern religious extremism proves, also the number of sacrifices was heavily exagerated.
Ayden Roberts
>Are these stark, almost blinding-white stone walls historical? Did they polish the stone or use special coverings?
They used a white lime/limestone stucco. Pic related is from the much earlier teotihaucan, but you get the idea
Jose Murphy
Jayden Anderson
This is from Tula. I like this image a lot because it shows 3 different layers of the pyramid construction process (a lot of places at Tula have a lot of them visible iin the same view)
There's an interior foundation of random rounded stones, gravel, and cement as cobblestone filler; then this is covered by a layer of more meticilious cobblestone that's smooth and fits together more cleanly, then there's stucco, carved stone, or limestone coverings over that to give it a clean white surface, and then you have paint applied over that. For smaller/thinner structures, sometimes it's just the inner haphazard cobblestone or laid briick and then the stucco is directly over that, alongside any paint (not shown) over the stucco. In pic related, for instance, on the pyramid steps, you can see the rounded, haphazard cobblestone up towards the top/back, and then the second, cleaner cobblestone/brick layer towards the forground. For the pillars, you can see a single cobblestone layer composing the entire inside of the structure since it's small, and then there's still some of the outer white stuccoo left on them.
Note that this isn't universal: The maya, at least the classiic maya, didn't use thiis method, I don't think, at least not for everything.
Jack Cruz
Eli Edwards
Christopher Allen
I can't even begin to imagine the feelings of awe you would have to have, to cross an ocean, find a new continent with a completely alien people, and near the center of it all seeing THIS. Every moment in history that lacks a photograph is a shame, but the lack of a photo of Tenochtitlan is a tragedy.
Noah Smith
yeah it looks great in art, but do you guys think maybe, just maybe, those might be embellished and exaggerated a little bit? and the actual city didnt look anywhere near that clean and pretty and majestic. These people were savages.
Andrew Hill
>just maybe, those might be embellished and exaggerated a little bit?
The thing is, we'll never know. What do we have other than eyewitness accounts and some poor contemporary sketches?
>These people were savages.
You're getting memed on my dude
Chase Allen
My gf sent me these, I could not fine better versions. They are not Tenochtitlan but they are the from the brothers.
Nathaniel Price
It's so small idk if I should put it on the mega. But I can't find a better version.
Eli Wood
>didnt look anywhere near that clean and pretty and majestic
This makes perfect sense if you understood Aztec worldview. They were absolutely obsessed with order and cleanliness.
Nicholas Clark
Except Amerindians have more civilization potential than europeans.
I belive this is pretty much intuitive.
Jaxson Kelly
Not really, it matches up pretty well wiith the ruins at teotihaucan as seen in and . The palace in is also pretty consistent with the palace at mitla
Charles Jackson
lady in the middle has nice legs.
Jeremiah Clark
I like this, small chinampa farm, habitational house withthin view you can see the great temple afar
Gabriel Cooper
Imagine if it was not destroyed
Adam Moore
There seems to be a huge difference in proportions here
Jack Gutierrez
Far greater. Damn man, there are accounts of how amazed the Spaniards were compared to the old world. The temples alone would have been fucking amazing to see
Logan Watson
According to Wikipedia the temple was 60m tall, according to the Mexican Archaeology magazine it was 45m and according to Cortés it was as tall as the main tower of the Seville Cathedral, which was about 90m before they added the Giralda.
Ryan Morris
ON THE SHORE LAY MONTEZUMA
WITH HIS
COCA LEAVES AND PEARLS
IN HIS HALLS HE OFTEN WONDERED
THE SECRETS OF THE WORLD
Nolan Ross
Here's the ruins of it today, though the outer layers, including the final one that would have been the outside surface of the structure at tthe time, were completely destroyed and aren't visible here
Connor Reed
Go away, clown.
Chase Butler
Amerindians have demonstrated a higher development rate than europeans.
Time to deal with the facts, subhuman.
Noah Collins
No, thats a colorized photo of an Aztec waterway.
Isaac Wright
sad
Colton King
Truth shouldn't be sad, unless you are an eurangutan.
Jaxson Hughes
I remember reading that from what Cortés wrote user, and went to see pictures of such tower. he also said it had enough room for a small town of houses
Brandon Hernandez
She's taken by Red Hat Tyrone
William Ward
where she'd get them?
Isaac Brown
Both of you should read some of the accounts by Conquistadors about Aztec cities: What the art shows matches even discriptions they give for way smaller ciities and towns nearby, let alone Tenochtitlan itself
From Cortes's letters
>"(About Montezuma II) He possessed out of the city as well as within, numerous villas, each of which had its peculiar sources of amusement, and all were constructed in the best possible manner for the use of a great prince and lord. Within the city his palaces were so wonderful that it is hardly possible to describe their beauty and extent ; I can only say that in Spain there is nothing equal to them."
>"The city of Iztapalapa contains twelve or fifteen thousand houses; it is situated on the shore of a large salt lake, one-half of it being built upon the water, and one half on terra firma. The governor or chief of the city has several new houses, which, although they are not yet finished, are equal to the better class of houses in Spain –being large and well constructed, in the stone work, the carpentry, the floors, and the various appendages necessary to render a house complete, excepting the reliefs and other rich work usual in Spanish houses. There are also many upper and lower rooms–cool gardens, abounding in trees and odoriferous flowers; also pools of fresh water, well constructed, with stairs leading to the bottom."
(...)
Also dumping images of a good minecraft recreation from planetminecraft.com
Levi Wright
>"There is also a very extensive kitchen garden attached to the house, and over it a belvidere with beautiful corridors and halls; and within the garden a large square pond of fresh water, having its walls formed of handsome hewn stone; and adjacent to it there is a promenade, consisting of a tiled pavement so broad that four persons can walk on it abreast, and four hundred paces square, or sixteen hundred paces round; enclosed on one side towards the wall of the garden by canes, intermingled with vergas, and on the other side by shrubs and sweet-scented plants. The pond contains a great variety of fish and water-fowl, as wild ducks, teal, and others so numerous that they often cover the surface of the water."
(...)
>"On their route they passed through three provinces, that, according to the report of the Spaniards, contained very fine land, many villages and cities, with much scattered population, and buildings equal to any in Spain. They mentioned particularly a house and castle, the latter larger, of greater strength, and better built than the castle of Burgos ; and the people of one of these provinces, called Tamazulapa, were better clothed than those of any other we had seen, as it justly appeared to them."
and from Bernal Díaz del Castillo
>"The next morning we reached the broad high road of Iztapalapan, whence we for the first time beheld the numbers of towns and villages built in the lake, and the still greater number of large townships on the mainland, with the level causeway which ran in a straight line into Mexico."
(...)
Jaxon Nelson
>"Our astonishment was indeed raised to the highest pitch, and we could not help remarking to each other, that all these buildings resembled the fairy castles we read of in Amadis de Gaul; so high, majestic, and splendid did the temples, towers, and houses of the town, all built of massive stone and lime, rise up out of the midst of the lake. Indeed, many of our men asked if what they saw was a mere dream. And the reader must not feel surprised at the manner in which I have expressed myself, for it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen nor heard of, nor even could have dreamt of, beforehand."
>"When we approached near to Iztapalapan, two other caziques came out in great pomp to receive us: one was the prince of Cuitlahuac, and the other of Cojohuacan; both were near relatives of Motecusuma. We now entered the town of Iztapalapan, where we were indeed quartered in palaces, of large dimensions, surrounded by spacious courts, and built of hewn stone, cedar and other sweet-scented wood. All the apartments were hung round with cotton cloths."
>"After we had seen all this, we paid a visit to the gardens adjoining these palaces, which were really astonishing, and I could not gratify my desire too much by walking about in them and contemplating the numbers of trees which spread around the most delicious odours; the rose bushes, the different flower beds, and the fruit trees which stood along the paths. There was likewise a basin of sweet water, which was connected with the lake by means of a small canal. It was constructed of stone of various colours, and decorated with numerous figures, and was wide enough to hold their largest canoes."
(...)
Parker Mitchell
(...)
>"Our astonishment was indeed raised to the highest pitch, and we could not help remarking to each other, that all these buildings resembled the fairy castles we read of in Amadis de Gaul; so high, majestic, and splendid did the temples, towers, and houses of the town, all built of massive stone and lime, rise up out of the midst of the lake. Indeed, many of our men asked if what they saw was a mere dream. And the reader must not feel surprised at the manner in which I have expressed myself, for it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen nor heard of, nor even could have dreamt of, beforehand."
>"When we approached near to Iztapalapan, two other caziques came out in great pomp to receive us: one was the prince of Cuitlahuac, and the other of Cojohuacan; both were near relatives of Motecusuma. We now entered the town of Iztapalapan, where we were indeed quartered in palaces, of large dimensions, surrounded by spacious courts, and built of hewn stone, cedar and other sweet-scented wood. All the apartments were hung round with cotton cloths."
>"After we had seen all this, we paid a visit to the gardens adjoining these palaces, which were really astonishing, and I could not gratify my desire too much by walking about in them and contemplating the numbers of trees which spread around the most delicious odours; the rose bushes, the different flower beds, and the fruit trees which stood along the paths. There was likewise a basin of sweet water, which was connected with the lake by means of a small canal. It was constructed of stone of various colours, and decorated with numerous figures, and was wide enough to hold their largest canoes."
(...)
Kevin Turner
>"In this basin various kinds of water-fowls were swimming up and down, and everything was so charming and beautiful that we could find no words to express our astonishment. Indeed I do not believe a country was ever discovered which was equal in splendour to this; for Peru was not known at that time. But, at the present moment, there is not a vestige of all this remaining, and not a stone of this beautiful town is now standing."
>"(About Tlatelolco) After we had sufficiently gazed upon this magnificent picture, we again turned our eyes toward the great market, and beheld the vast numbers of buyers and sellers who thronged there. The bustle and noise occasioned by this multitude of human beings was so great that it could be heard at a distance of more than four miles. Some of our men, who had been at Constantinople and Rome, and travelled through the whole of Italy, said that they never had seen a market-place of such large dimensions, or which was so well regulated, or so crowded with people as this one at Mexico."
Most of these descriptions are in regards to the town/city of Itzalpalapa, which was much smaller then Tenochtitlan itself. Only the lines where they mention the view of "Mexico" (which was a synonyom for Tenochtitlan) and the mention of the Tlatelolco market are about Tenochtitlan there: The rest is just Itzalapalpa.
(Also the layout of some of the stuff on this map is sort of off: according to most (not all, it's somewhat inconsistent) maps i've seen, there should a palace where the buildings to the left of the rooad below the ceremoonial center is, and below tthe plaza to the right of the ceremonial centter should be the maiin noble school, wheras here there's seemingly random multiple buildings. I also don't think all of the stuff that's canals here would have had canals, but the general aeshetiic and such is very accurate. I'll post some maps showing where in the city stuff was too later)
Bentley Barnes
Also I had other discriptions, one of Texcoco, and two other of otherr towns/cities, but I can'f find them right now
here's some maps
Luke White
Dominic Edwards
Adam Hernandez
Also it should be obvious, but thee solid colors in thiis one and , and what's marked as "isla primitiva" in and , are what was solid, natural land: The grids of green in the color ones, and the rest in the black/white ones were artificially built islands. (and I think the islands being large, solid blocks like in the B/W oones is inaccurate, I think there'd be many mini canals inside of them two like in the color ones)
Isaac Lopez
Blake Barnes
nothing personnel, Mexicans
Juan Lopez
The 200k population figure on the 1519 slide is misleading: Tenochtitlan-Tlatelolco alone was 200k-250k people: All of the other towns/cities iin the image were more peoplee on top of that.
Dominic Phillips
man so every race expect for wewuzzes had architecture... makes you think
Julian Hall
What an awful gif
Gabriel Russell
It's the equivalent of finding an alien civilization, basically.
Chase Allen
Angel Evans
Amerindians had a slower progression of developement than Europeans.
Colton Sullivan
they had their own aquaducts
Anthony Cook
make up your own meme.
Zachary White
How is a stream of water an aqueduct?
Owen Hughes
Aiden Murphy
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Adrian Brown
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Cameron Sullivan
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Kayden Kelly
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Jeremiah Williams
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Brandon Johnson
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Nicholas Gonzalez
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Owen Hall
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Levi Gonzalez
Nathan Jenkins
k
Kano
Grayson Roberts
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Caleb Russell
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Jace Smith
This doesn't look Mesoamerican, why are you posting this?
Mason Gonzalez
Some of these are cool, but these are African, not even Mesoamerican, let alone Tenochtitlan and other central Mesoamerican cities speffically
Blake Jackson
Sorry just trying to correct
Kayden Morris
I live in an area with many canals and one thing popped to my mind. Did thry have a lot of mosquitos and malaria issues?
Gabriel Brooks
>How is a stream of water an aqueduct?
Affirmitive Action
Andrew Cooper
actually a good question.I wonder if the resident Mesoamerican expert has an answer
Sebastian Phillips
sorrt to dissapoint but those buildings would be very small, the worship temple in the center was only about 50 meters high
Jack Green
been there, the grey building next to the small green courtyard on the center left is actually a museum with many artifacts and the side facing the aloe plant in the small green courtyard is covered in descriptions of the Mixica people and their empire.
Hudson Rodriguez
I feel like I'm learning about Egypt for the first time again
Noah Reyes
That's not something specifically i've read much about on if they did or didn't, but Tenochtitlan did have rather insane sanitation and hygiene practices: As alludes to, cleanliness and order, botth physically, socially, and religiously (though all of those would be intertwined to them), was hugely important to Nahua cultures,somewhat to Mesoamerica in general, but the Mexica of Tenochtitlan in particular went to insane lengths with this.
The entire city was washed daily, from streets to buildings, and trash was collected daily at the same time. Urine was taken care of by sewage systems, and feces was collected alongside the trash and used as fertilizer. Steam bathes were used regularly: Even low class commoners would bath multiple times a week, nobles and royalty daily. They used the roots of certain plants as soap.
Clean, potable water was brought into the city (and other twons/cities nearby) in aquaducts (some of which were simple channels, some were actual pressurized pipes), some of which had their water sources miles away. Most of these werre built alongsidee the causways/rooads built over the lake between islands/the shoreline, as seen in pic related (yellow are major roads/causeways, the cyan dootted lines are aquaducts. I THINK the blue is fresh water flow when over land, but show common trade routes by boute when over water, since the blue line connects to the start of the Huitzilopochco aquaduct, which iis where it'd get it's water, but the blue line over water on the west side of tenochtilan in the map connects to the dock for the canoe route froom texcoco on the other side of the lake).
There were also at least two dikes built , the most famous of which was the dike of Nezahualcoyotl (you can see another, tthe dike of ahuitzotl, in and ) in which kept clean, fresh water on the one side of the lake and brackish water on the other.
1/2
Zachary Lewis
cont:
Speaking of, Nezahualcoyotl (who was a king of Texcoco), in addition to designing that dike, he also redesigned the largest aquaduct fo tencohtitlan after it broke, and designed a channel/aquduct system in Texcoco that brought water from a spring on one mountain to anotheer, where the imperial gardens were, which then had a really, really cool series of channels to drop the water off in waterfalls around the gardens and then that further brought water to the palace. The gardens are also noteworthy here, because the Aztecs had made extensive use of botanical gardens, nature preserves, etc not just recreationally, but stock herbs for medicinal uses, and had a proto-taxonomic system for categorizing plants.
The artificial islands/chinampas grid, in addition to the dikes, also helped mitigate flooding issues. Bodiees were also cremated, rather then buried. It's also worth noting that the lakee itself WAS swampy and brackish originally, and Tenochtitlan's island in particular was swampy and shitty. It is entirely likely that a lot of these practices were borne out of trying to mitigiate the issues you mention.
So, bottom line, they had a wide variety of hydraulic and sanitary/medicinal systems and practices in place, that likely would have limited the impact of mosquitoes. I don't know if Malaria was in the americas prior to contact, though.
Pretty sure that's showing a hypothetical futuristic version of the city, user. That being said, 50 meters is pretty damn big for a pre-modern structure. There were pleenty of large palaces and other buildings, etc. Look at the paintings I posted earlier.